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SEGA finding new ways to disappoint us in 2024

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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
  • TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    speaking of remixes


    Cat's out of the bag... KatieChrz shared on today's Sonic livestream that it was, in fact, necessary to replace some of Sonic 3 & Knuckles' music in Sonic Origins. I know this may be a disappointment to some, but we've all known for a long time that this would very likely happen

    The "new" tracks will be familiar to those who have played 1997's S&K Collection for PC, but their history is deeper than that. Recently, a prototype of Sonic 3 has surfaced that proves these were indeed the original, intended songs before they were replaced by MJ's sound team

    As Katie said, these tracks, originally presented in MIDI form in S&KC and unpolished in the Sonic 3 prototype, have recently been given an FM makeover by Jun Senoue for integration into the finished soundtrack

    Don't ask me why this change is necessary now and expect a solid answer- I actually don't have any more information on it than is already available to you. Given the apparent circumstances though, it seems a reasonable compromise to have Sonic 3 be released on modern platforms

    tweets are from a developer at head cannon

    Dark Raven XLBD_Nytetrayn
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Everytime I see Frontiers i just imagine Sega going "I dont get it, we keep spending less and less money on these games and they keep looking worse and worse!"

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I wish sega would fuckin' explain the problem with the original tracks instead of making us guess

    BahamutZERO.gif
    TheySlashThemMidniteMunkus BeaverDee Kae
  • turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    I just assume there's some kinda licensing issues.

    Game companies have really only very recently started future proofing their sound track deals.

    X22wmuF.jpg
    Einzel
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    edited June 2022
    I'd never heard before that the PC S3&K soundtrack was an earlier version, always assumed it was a later iteration.

    Something that always fascinated me was the change to Knuckle's theme between Sonic 3, Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic 3 & Knuckles - S3 had a simple drum beat, S&K and S3&K both used a more elaborate version that gave it a melody on top of the drums. I assume for technical reasons, the S&K version overwrote the S3 version when they're combined, but it's kind of a bummer to not hear the simple drum version in the earlier levels. Wonder if we'll hear both of em in Origins...

    Edit: I misremembered! Knux and the Miniboss shared a drumbeat in S3, he got a whole new theme for S&K.

    Miniboss:
    https://youtu.be/SBTAGVnfXAw

    Knuckles Theme S3:
    https://youtu.be/_T89V6XJ0as

    Knuckles Theme S&K:
    https://youtu.be/FApBbwnwTx0

    Dark Raven X on
    Oh brilliant
    BahamutZEROMatev
  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    I wish sega would fuckin' explain the problem with the original tracks instead of making us guess

    I've heard -- and I don't remember where, so treat this as hearsay -- that basically, SEGA isn't admitting to using Michael Jackson's music in the game, whereas Jackson's associate Buxer asserts that it was.

    It hasn't come to anything legal yet, IIRC, and basically, SEGA is trying to avoid by not saying (admitting?) they were Jackson tracks, while also not issuing new releases using said tracks that Jackson's estate/Buxer could use to build a case.

    They're basically playing it as safe as they can while tip-toeing through a minefield.

    qjWUWdm.gif1edr1cF.gifJZuC7sH.png
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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    yeah I know the rumors that it's vaguely something to do with MJ's team being involved with the original Sonic 3 OST, I want an official explanation though

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    Buxer is credited for the music in sonic 3 so unless he wants MJ's name to be added to the credits I doubt that is the reason.

  • TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    the most likely actual explanation is that if they want to use the tracks again they'd have to pay buxer some kind of royalties and/or strike a new deal with him, and they don't want to do that because they're sega and sega are cheapskates, but they also don't want to say so on record because that's bad pr, and despite fan complaints they really don't have much reason to come forward about it, since basically anyone who would care already knows the score anyway

    MidniteDonnictonOdinLBD_Nytetrayn
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Why would you even want this other version of LBZ music with MJ shouting 'Go' or whatever over it.
    S&3K PC LBZ music rocks.

  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    the most likely actual explanation is that if they want to use the tracks again they'd have to pay buxer some kind of royalties and/or strike a new deal with him, and they don't want to do that because they're sega and sega are cheapskates, but they also don't want to say so on record because that's bad pr, and despite fan complaints they really don't have much reason to come forward about it, since basically anyone who would care already knows the score anyway

    oh man if that's all it is, FUCK sega

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    WHAT IN THE WHOLE ACTUAL FUCK

    https://youtu.be/lLUHoREeLDw

    wY6K6Jb.gif
    cj iwakuraDark Raven XMatevMechMantis
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Oh to have the childlike excitement of an indie winter.

  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    I never

    ever

    thought I would see Big the Cat in an animated Sonic series

    and Froggy

    wY6K6Jb.gif
    Couscous
  • LarsLars Registered User regular
    That just makes me wonder why Sonic Frontier's setting doesn't look like that. I'd rather run around that area.

    Endless_SerpentsMidniteBlackDragon480H0b0manDark Raven Xcj iwakuraProhassKristmas KthulhuMatevHexmage-PACouscousdarunia106H3Knuckles
  • PeewiPeewi I edited this in 2024 I edited this in 2024Registered User regular
    I never

    ever

    thought I would see Big the Cat in an animated Sonic series

    and Froggy

    They were in Sonic X.

    Ivan HungerH3Knuckles
  • TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    I feel like the footage we've seen so far would genuinely have been better received if the grass was all stripey and there were checkerboards on the rocks

    y'know, if there was any art direction at all

    TheySlashThem on
    turtleantPolaritieMidniteChallshoeboxjeddyBahamutZERONeveronH0b0manProhassKristmas KthulhuHexmage-PACouscousShenl742H3Knuckles
  • ChallChall Registered User regular
    I feel like the footage we've seen so far would genuinely have been better received if the grass was all stripey and there were checkerboards on the rocks

    y'know, if there was any art direction at all

    I think I could ignore a lot of the issues if there was upbeat Sonic-type music instead of slow classical piano while you run around

    BahamutZERONeveronH3Knuckles
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    I don’t think this goes hard enough, but a fan made a mock-up of music changing in intensity and it works well. The tease of the music getting drums and a guitar just makes me wish it started at that and got more intense from there. Absolutely the way Frontiers should have gone though, more or less.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw_GX5YnX1o

  • TheySlashThemTheySlashThem Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    I'm constantly saying that sonic music is usually very good even when the games are very bad and this thing that youtube randomly recommended me fits that assertion pretty well

    https://youtu.be/hvyex3nZG8w

    dude includes two(!) tracks from sonic and the black knight for god's sake

    edit: and even more sonic 06 songs, fuck

    edit again: there is something very weird about seeing sonic 06 being played well

    TheySlashThem on
    Kristmas KthulhuDark Raven XMatevEndless_Serpentsagoaj
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    It is unbelievable how easy it would be to make a great 3D sonic game given the constituent parts of the franchises art and setting and tools in the toolbox they have, if they just put any money into it and a competent team behind it, and yet…

    Every time I see frontiers I go from disappointed to angrier and angrier

    Prohass on
    Kristmas KthulhuMunkus Beaver
  • DaebunzDaebunz Registered User regular
    that game's ost was so stacked

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    Matev
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    sega emulating botw for their next 3D sonic game instead of, I dunno, Ghostrunner is fuckin mindboggling

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I vaguely heard someone mention you level up to increase sonic's speed in Frontiers, is this true?

    BahamutZERO.gif
  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    I vaguely heard someone mention you level up to increase sonic's speed in Frontiers, is this true?

    Pretty sure no one knows, because SEGA's being... weird about info on this.

    I hear they've shown stuff not seen in the IGN stuff in some demos at Summer Game Fest, and have gotten testy when people share any footage online, even incidental.

    qjWUWdm.gif1edr1cF.gifJZuC7sH.png
    Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
    Chall
  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    I watched Sonic 2 tonight and man, when it's doing Sonic stuff it was pretty incredible dumb fun and when it's doing literally anything to do with the non Eggman, non Egghenchdude humans it's awful, including being way worse than the first movie at making it feel like the actors are remotely in the same space as Sonic or not being greenscreened in. Still a good movie but like, literally just cut the 30 minutes of wedding shit out.

    I ate an engineer
    Dark Raven XLBD_NytetraynH3Knuckles
  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    I wonder if Jim Carrey is really out of the third movie or if this is a tactic to get his paycheck up

    Like if he legit wants to retire then good for him, but not having him mess around with Shadow (and maybe Amy?) is going to be disappointing

    wY6K6Jb.gif
    LBD_NytetraynH3Knuckles
  • ChallChall Registered User regular

    If they have any sense at all, there will be a Speed slider but it will be set at Maximum and won't let you adjust it.

    MechMantis
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Ah, so it’s a very basic game. You’d need to be able to make every jump etc. on the worst setting arrangements, so to accommodate that there’s not going to be any intricate level designs.

    How the character controls should define the game. You couldn’t complete Celeste with a character that played differently, you know?

    Or you’ll be fine tuning Sonic on a case by case basis because certain segments are going to assume different speed, acceleration and stuff.

    This still feels like a Unity fan game. But hey, I’ll lay off posting, I think I know where this one is going.

  • milskimilski Poyo! Registered User regular
    Ah, so it’s a very basic game. You’d need to be able to make every jump etc. on the worst setting arrangements, so to accommodate that there’s not going to be any intricate level designs.

    How the character controls should define the game. You couldn’t complete Celeste with a character that played differently, you know?

    Or you’ll be fine tuning Sonic on a case by case basis because certain segments are going to assume different speed, acceleration and stuff.

    This still feels like a Unity fan game. But hey, I’ll lay off posting, I think I know where this one is going.

    (Celeste literally let you modify the game speed, become invincible, and have infinite dashes or jumps but I get your point)

    I ate an engineer
    Endless_SerpentsShenl742Munkus BeaverturtleantTheySlashThemAndy Joe
  • NeveronNeveron HellValleySkyTree SwedenRegistered User regular
    Celeste's game speed and whatnot didn't actually change the game physics, is the thing - at most it's just adding more to make things easier. Slowing things down just made things go in slow motion, it didn't make Celeste walk instead of run.

    this sounds like it's actively changing stuff like "how far does sonic jump", which is... more concerning when it comes to level design

    Endless_Serpents
  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Chall wrote: »

    If they have any sense at all, there will be a Speed slider but it will be set at Maximum and won't let you adjust it.

    I disagree. It starts at Maximum, but as you progress, you unlock

    Maximumer

    and then

    Maximumest

    each causing the bar to stretch further out of the menu boundaries

    ChallMatevEndless_SerpentsLBD_NytetraynH3Knuckles
  • ChallChall Registered User regular
    MechMantis wrote: »
    Chall wrote: »

    If they have any sense at all, there will be a Speed slider but it will be set at Maximum and won't let you adjust it.

    I disagree. It starts at Maximum, but as you progress, you unlock

    Maximumer

    and then

    Maximumest

    each causing the bar to stretch further out of the menu boundaries

    Ah yes, I was a fool to not see this option. The slider STARTS at Maximum and then goes from 1 to 11 out of 10

    Andy Joe
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    milski wrote: »
    Ah, so it’s a very basic game. You’d need to be able to make every jump etc. on the worst setting arrangements, so to accommodate that there’s not going to be any intricate level designs.

    How the character controls should define the game. You couldn’t complete Celeste with a character that played differently, you know?

    Or you’ll be fine tuning Sonic on a case by case basis because certain segments are going to assume different speed, acceleration and stuff.

    This still feels like a Unity fan game. But hey, I’ll lay off posting, I think I know where this one is going.

    (Celeste literally let you modify the game speed, become invincible, and have infinite dashes or jumps but I get your point)

    Curse you and your factual knowledge.

    I legit love @MechMantis idea.

    Endless_Serpents on
    Chall
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    hydross-ity zone 4ever

    BahamutZERO.gif
    ArteenDonnictonagoajTheySlashThem
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