I guarantee you that their game designers are not the ones who make the trailers and no man-hours are being lost in the production of the game on those trailers. They have people whose sole job is creating marketing material and hype fluff who make those trailers.
I guarantee you that their game designers are not the ones who make the trailers and no man-hours are being lost in the production of the game on those trailers. They have people whose sole job is creating marketing material and hype fluff who make those trailers.
Well, yeah. I wasn't suggesting that the animators move over from trailers and now work on game balance or something. There may be overlap between people working on the trailers and new hero art assets, or just general overhead stuff (but also just an assumption). I thought browder tweeted at one point that the reason they were cut is that they did have something more important for those teams to work on but I could be incorrectly remembering that
I guarantee you that their game designers are not the ones who make the trailers and no man-hours are being lost in the production of the game on those trailers. They have people whose sole job is creating marketing material and hype fluff who make those trailers.
Well, yeah. I wasn't suggesting that the animators move over from trailers and now work on game balance or something. There may be overlap between people working on the trailers and new hero art assets, or just general overhead stuff (but also just an assumption). I thought browder tweeted at one point that the reason they were cut is that they did have something more important for those teams to work on but I could be incorrectly remembering that
There's definitely overlap - at the very least you will have people on the development side who have to confirm that the trailer material is accurate (and if not, provide information as to why). Given the iterative nature of design, this will happen more than once. And in the real world, this will be a messier process than just letting some marketing person log onto a QA environment and screwing around with a video editor. It's not a lot of time, but it's definitely time.
Also, I'm guessing that their marketing teams are just as modular as their development teams. In which case, he may have been referring to moving some HotS folks off of these small trailers and dedicating them to Overwatch promotion, for example.
I still like Rexxar, but he doesn't fit on every comp, and smart people who know how to target Rexxar instead of the bear make his life really sad. Also Nova :bigfrown:
(actually yeah it isn't a trailer anyway, it's the hero spotlight! so y'alls right anyway :bzz:)
Haha okay, sarcasm mode over. I really do like these Spotlight videos they put out (and Cloaken's narration is pretty dope). I was thinking a lot about Greymane the other day. I don't want to get my hopes too high, but like, he definitely seems to be more of a pure autoattacker than say Lunara was. He's got a 50% attack speed buff that has pseudo-permanent uptime (as long as he's attacking something), he's got pretty damn good autos. The obvious analogy is to Raynor, there. I mean hell, he even has a talent at 7 I think that gives him 20% extra auto range.
I just worry about really being able to make use of his Worgen form. Seems like it's mostly gonna be just for picking dudes off, not for leaping into teamfights with. There's no way he'll be able to go into Worgen form in teamfights, that's a recipe for disaster I think.
His Ults kinda seem a bit trashy, though. Who knows! We'll see I guess. Keeping my expectations kinda low either way.
I think I'll enjoy Greymane. Just from looking at his abilities he seems like a dude I'd do very well with. I'm a fairly conservative player, so conservatively conserving his melee form for securing kills is right up my alley. Also, I really like the looks of the ult that he uses as a big kill finisher. I think that's sort of the niche Greymane is supposed to fill. Murdering runners and low health people.
I think a human form build around the Gilnean Cocktail ability looks very interesting
A vulnerability ult on a ranged assassin is pretty crazy
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Actually I like his Marked ult a lot more knowing he can jump to the target after hitting them, I didn't know that was part of the ability. You mark them, they take serious damage from the vuln, you jump to them, punch them with a furry fist, Q if they use an escape ability, punch them again and they die, and then you can use E to get the hell out of there.
greymane looks fun but they show right in the middle why he's going to have a rough time as a melee. turns into a worgen on kael, kael stuns, kael runs away and greymane is stuck doing nothing. no gap closers and no way to make people stay in melee.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
greymane looks fun but they show right in the middle why he's going to have a rough time as a melee. turns into a worgen on kael, kael stuns, kael runs away and greymane is stuck doing nothing. no gap closers and no way to make people stay in melee.
his worgen q, both e's and both r's are all gap closers what are you talking about
edit: not been in a HotS mood lately but ZP seems to be doing well with him on stream
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited January 2016
So Greymane is shit...without a support.
With a support he is a killing machine.
You seem to want to be in Worgen form mainly. Human form is for retreating and poking. But I just had a game with Ant where he was Nova, and I managed to get massively more KBs than him and more hero damage, and the game ended in 12 minutes. Compared to our first game with no supports where the enemy team was filled with beefy characters and I just got shut down and died constantly.
He's a neat character. Keeping up his W is pretty key to his character overall, and if you can get the kills off you can get his own type of GP for AA on his worgen form to make him hit like a mack truck.
And then you have his ult which lets him bounce and essentially finish off two limping deer on the enemy team.
EDIT: Oh, and he has that fantastic escape when you are in his worgen form and use his human form to stealth. Or if you really need to, you can use the human roll to chase someone and fire pew pew pew at them as they run.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
0
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I like how there's a combo meter when Greymane's W is active. Too bad it doesn't really do anything else
Well, when it lights up your W is active (and your W is key to how Greymane works) and some of Greymane's talents are based on how long his W are up, basically. I'm also thinking some blizzard guy was thinking "you know, I wonder how long I can keep this buff up during the game" and thus the combo meter was born.
You just know that someone is gonna make a meme where they are in a video and they stun/kill Greymane and yell C-C-C-C-C-COMBO-BREAKER!
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
the fake raynor build focusing on concoction and movespeed seems the most viable to me. really good poke and still have the option to worgen for finishing people. has so little hp and no sustain otherwise, don't see him doing much in melee constantly without a 2 support team.
Yeah, I was gonna say one of the neatest things about Disengage (his E in Worgen that turns him Human) is that you can aim it. So you can use it for extra mobility to chase or to avoid skill shots and AoEs or to escape.
Also he hits pretty damn hard.
Gilnean Cocktail seems to do like half a minion waves health at lvl 1.
Go for the Throat (the melee Ult) has decent burst damage.
His Q seems good for staying on target.
Other random notes:
The lvl 1 talent Perfect Aim that increases the range of Gilnean Cocktail and refunds 75% of it's mana cost if it hits a hero returns the mana even if only the AoE component hits a hero, so it seems like it'll be decent for laning against a melee hiding in their minion wave.
The cooldown on W only starts when it falls off.
shryke on
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
You seem to want to be in Worgen form mainly. Human form is for retreating and poking. But I just had a game with Ant where he was Nova, and I managed to get massively more KBs than him and more hero damage, and the game ended in 12 minutes. Compared to our first game with no supports where the enemy team was filled with beefy characters and I just got shut down and died constantly.
He's a neat character. Keeping up his W is pretty key to his character overall, and if you can get the kills off you can get his own type of GP for AA on his worgen form to make him hit like a mack truck.
And then you have his ult which lets him bounce and essentially finish off two limping deer on the enemy team.
EDIT: Oh, and he has that fantastic escape when you are in his worgen form and use his human form to stealth. Or if you really need to, you can use the human roll to chase someone and fire pew pew pew at them as they run.
This thread is like Groundhog Day whenever a new hero is released.
It might take you more than a game or two before you know how well a hero will compete.
just watching grubb's stream of greymane, it looks like he could be pretty good, but not in this meta. Dude gets blown up and can still take lots of damage in his escape.
edit: it does look like he does pretty well with tass's regen shield and lvl20 cleave tho
The level 1 talent that reduces its cooldown with AAs while it's up is nice. It still starts when it ends, but shortened by however much you AA'd for its duration. So potentially instant.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
It's really hard to separate the perceived strength of a hero from the strength of your opponents in any given game. Some games you stomp and feel like a god, some games you get stomped and can't do shit. In a game like this there are a hundred different factors that could be contributing to that, and character balance is just one of them. Plus some heroes feel worse in losing games while other heroes can do decent poke damage and top the charts on their team even in shitty engagements.
Hmm. So if Greymane works best with a support buddy, which support buddy is best? Does he need a strong spike heal, or will he work fine with mitigation/sustain?
Asking because I wanna know if I should queue up with Tassadar or Brightwing.
It's really hard to separate the perceived strength of a hero from the strength of your opponents in any given game. Some games you stomp and feel like a god, some games you get stomped and can't do shit. In a game like this there are a hundred different factors that could be contributing to that, and character balance is just one of them. Plus some heroes feel worse in losing games while other heroes can do decent poke damage and top the charts on their team even in shitty engagements.
Aye, the perceived strength thing is something not enough people realize. Like I legitimately have no idea how good I am at Sonya because every game I'm either murdering everything or totally useless, and I think it has a lot to do with how good the other team is.
Also this hasn't been brought up in a while but I just want to say I really hope Blizz doesn't do the per-hero-MMR thing. At least not have that be a primary method of matchmaking--have that modify their regular MMR a bit, if they have enough games for it to be significant, maybe. But even then I don't think your hero MMR would be significant until you have like two or three dozen games in on a hero, and it'd suck tanking your MMR with a certain hero early because you're still learning them and then when you actually figure out how to play the hero you're constantly getting worse games every time you queue with that hero.
Hmm. So if Greymane works best with a support buddy, which support buddy is best? Does he need a strong spike heal, or will he work fine with mitigation/sustain?
Asking because I wanna know if I should queue up with Tassadar or Brightwing.
Either should be fine. He's severely lacking sustain imo. Gameplay feels like Gnar in LoL
Hmm. So if Greymane works best with a support buddy, which support buddy is best? Does he need a strong spike heal, or will he work fine with mitigation/sustain?
Asking because I wanna know if I should queue up with Tassadar or Brightwing.
When he dives he's vulnerable to bursting, so I guess Tass for the shield?
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I think his talent and ult choices will really shape how you play him. Like, you can buff his Worgen form enough that he can sit in there long enough to let you engage when necessary, but you can also do things like make him even more hit-and-run style, such as buffing the bomb and giving him stealth.
If you're desperate you can try to make him a sustained range DPS, but he does so much less damage in ranged form that it seems like a waste. You might be better off building him for burst and then getting out once your cooldowns are used up.
Hmm. So if Greymane works best with a support buddy, which support buddy is best? Does he need a strong spike heal, or will he work fine with mitigation/sustain?
Asking because I wanna know if I should queue up with Tassadar or Brightwing.
When he dives he's vulnerable to bursting, so I guess Tass for the shield?
Hmm also possibly Khar or Rheg.
I'm starting to really not like LiLi very much soooo...
It's really hard to separate the perceived strength of a hero from the strength of your opponents in any given game. Some games you stomp and feel like a god, some games you get stomped and can't do shit. In a game like this there are a hundred different factors that could be contributing to that, and character balance is just one of them. Plus some heroes feel worse in losing games while other heroes can do decent poke damage and top the charts on their team even in shitty engagements.
Aye, the perceived strength thing is something not enough people realize. Like I legitimately have no idea how good I am at Sonya because every game I'm either murdering everything or totally useless, and I think it has a lot to do with how good the other team is.
Also this hasn't been brought up in a while but I just want to say I really hope Blizz doesn't do the per-hero-MMR thing. At least not have that be a primary method of matchmaking--have that modify their regular MMR a bit, if they have enough games for it to be significant, maybe. But even then I don't think your hero MMR would be significant until you have like two or three dozen games in on a hero, and it'd suck tanking your MMR with a certain hero early because you're still learning them and then when you actually figure out how to play the hero you're constantly getting worse games every time you queue with that hero.
Yeah I have the same issue with Sonya, I think she's a good example of a hero who feels shitty whenever you're losing. She's an all-in hero who has no real means of escape, and the enemy team is incentivized to focus her so she'll usually be the first to die if a fight goes bad. Butcher is a lot like that too.
I think his talent and ult choices will really shape how you play him. Like, you can buff his Worgen form enough that he can sit in there long enough to let you engage when necessary, but you can also do things like make him even more hit-and-run style, such as buffing the bomb and giving him stealth.
If you're desperate you can try to make him a sustained range DPS, but he does so much less damage in ranged form that it seems like a waste. You might be better off building him for burst and then getting out once your cooldowns are used up.
I mean, his AA dps is as high as raynor i think, and raynor is the current god king of ranged aa dps. idk though, he really seems like a hero that desperately wants to be in the game as it was 3 months ago. bruiser heavy meta that relied on poking and longer fights seems to play right into his hands, where the ultra burst stun heavy meta we live in now sucks for him twice. he has no cc to contribute to that meta, and gets lit up as a worgen near on instantly.
but certainly seems better than lunara. that's still an active trainwreck and i'm honestly shocked she got zero changes in the patch.
I don't see why you would take Go for the Throat unless you drowning in vulnerability already (or, you know, have Tyrande on your team).
It has a long range, allows you to to get in their face with R, and it's five seconds of vulnerability. I'm not sold on the morph at 20, because realistically you're going to only hit 2-3 people which could be amazing in a more organized game, but in QM it's probably not worth it.
I think his talent and ult choices will really shape how you play him. Like, you can buff his Worgen form enough that he can sit in there long enough to let you engage when necessary, but you can also do things like make him even more hit-and-run style, such as buffing the bomb and giving him stealth.
If you're desperate you can try to make him a sustained range DPS, but he does so much less damage in ranged form that it seems like a waste. You might be better off building him for burst and then getting out once your cooldowns are used up.
I mean, his AA dps is as high as raynor i think, and raynor is the current god king of ranged aa dps. idk though, he really seems like a hero that desperately wants to be in the game as it was 3 months ago. bruiser heavy meta that relied on poking and longer fights seems to play right into his hands, where the ultra burst stun heavy meta we live in now sucks for him twice. he has no cc to contribute to that meta, and gets lit up as a worgen near on instantly.
but certainly seems better than lunara. that's still an active trainwreck and i'm honestly shocked she got zero changes in the patch.
I think his talent and ult choices will really shape how you play him. Like, you can buff his Worgen form enough that he can sit in there long enough to let you engage when necessary, but you can also do things like make him even more hit-and-run style, such as buffing the bomb and giving him stealth.
If you're desperate you can try to make him a sustained range DPS, but he does so much less damage in ranged form that it seems like a waste. You might be better off building him for burst and then getting out once your cooldowns are used up.
I mean, his AA dps is as high as raynor i think, and raynor is the current god king of ranged aa dps. idk though, he really seems like a hero that desperately wants to be in the game as it was 3 months ago. bruiser heavy meta that relied on poking and longer fights seems to play right into his hands, where the ultra burst stun heavy meta we live in now sucks for him twice. he has no cc to contribute to that meta, and gets lit up as a worgen near on instantly.
but certainly seems better than lunara. that's still an active trainwreck and i'm honestly shocked she got zero changes in the patch.
He has burst. It's a burst/stun meta.
These two things seem to fit together just fine.
i'm not saying he's bad. i just don't think he's great or really going to impact the meta. he just wishes he was in the game as it was, as i think he would be very very good in that meta. nice to not have a hero release at trash can tier for the first time since september anyway.
Watching Grubby play Greymane. He seems like he might actually be kinda good! Worgen form seems a lot better than I initially gave it credit for (holy fuck the damage). Scented Tincture at level 1 seems kind of insane, 10 second aoe reveal? Yeah good luck getting ganks, enemy team. And screws over stealthies quite nicely.
I have yet to play him myself, I mean. I'm gonna hold off on any real judgement til I get some good hands on (and it's been a few days), but from watching streams it seems he might be pretty dece.
Also, Stim Drone'd Greymane in Worgen form with Worgen Cleave = HOOOLY SHIT.
Edit: Some other observations: On The Prowl just seems way too good to pass up for anything else. Insatiable seems like pretty good mana return. Scented Tincture+Incendiary Elixir makes for an extremely potent reveal, especially in bushes.
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Well, yeah. I wasn't suggesting that the animators move over from trailers and now work on game balance or something. There may be overlap between people working on the trailers and new hero art assets, or just general overhead stuff (but also just an assumption). I thought browder tweeted at one point that the reason they were cut is that they did have something more important for those teams to work on but I could be incorrectly remembering that
WoWtcg and general gaming podcast
WoWtcg and gaming website
There's definitely overlap - at the very least you will have people on the development side who have to confirm that the trailer material is accurate (and if not, provide information as to why). Given the iterative nature of design, this will happen more than once. And in the real world, this will be a messier process than just letting some marketing person log onto a QA environment and screwing around with a video editor. It's not a lot of time, but it's definitely time.
Also, I'm guessing that their marketing teams are just as modular as their development teams. In which case, he may have been referring to moving some HotS folks off of these small trailers and dedicating them to Overwatch promotion, for example.
I still like Rexxar, but he doesn't fit on every comp, and smart people who know how to target Rexxar instead of the bear make his life really sad. Also Nova :bigfrown:
GEE GUYS, SURE IS NO TRAILER AROUND HERE
GOSH GOLLY
(actually yeah it isn't a trailer anyway, it's the hero spotlight! so y'alls right anyway :bzz:)
Haha okay, sarcasm mode over. I really do like these Spotlight videos they put out (and Cloaken's narration is pretty dope). I was thinking a lot about Greymane the other day. I don't want to get my hopes too high, but like, he definitely seems to be more of a pure autoattacker than say Lunara was. He's got a 50% attack speed buff that has pseudo-permanent uptime (as long as he's attacking something), he's got pretty damn good autos. The obvious analogy is to Raynor, there. I mean hell, he even has a talent at 7 I think that gives him 20% extra auto range.
I just worry about really being able to make use of his Worgen form. Seems like it's mostly gonna be just for picking dudes off, not for leaping into teamfights with. There's no way he'll be able to go into Worgen form in teamfights, that's a recipe for disaster I think.
His Ults kinda seem a bit trashy, though. Who knows! We'll see I guess. Keeping my expectations kinda low either way.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I think a human form build around the Gilnean Cocktail ability looks very interesting
A vulnerability ult on a ranged assassin is pretty crazy
It seems to have completely fucked the game I was just starting to load though.
his worgen q, both e's and both r's are all gap closers what are you talking about
edit: not been in a HotS mood lately but ZP seems to be doing well with him on stream
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
With a support he is a killing machine.
You seem to want to be in Worgen form mainly. Human form is for retreating and poking. But I just had a game with Ant where he was Nova, and I managed to get massively more KBs than him and more hero damage, and the game ended in 12 minutes. Compared to our first game with no supports where the enemy team was filled with beefy characters and I just got shut down and died constantly.
He's a neat character. Keeping up his W is pretty key to his character overall, and if you can get the kills off you can get his own type of GP for AA on his worgen form to make him hit like a mack truck.
And then you have his ult which lets him bounce and essentially finish off two limping deer on the enemy team.
EDIT: Oh, and he has that fantastic escape when you are in his worgen form and use his human form to stealth. Or if you really need to, you can use the human roll to chase someone and fire pew pew pew at them as they run.
Well, when it lights up your W is active (and your W is key to how Greymane works) and some of Greymane's talents are based on how long his W are up, basically. I'm also thinking some blizzard guy was thinking "you know, I wonder how long I can keep this buff up during the game" and thus the combo meter was born.
You just know that someone is gonna make a meme where they are in a video and they stun/kill Greymane and yell C-C-C-C-C-COMBO-BREAKER!
grubby is playing wolf guy right now if you're interested in seeing more of him
Also he hits pretty damn hard.
Gilnean Cocktail seems to do like half a minion waves health at lvl 1.
Go for the Throat (the melee Ult) has decent burst damage.
His Q seems good for staying on target.
Other random notes:
The lvl 1 talent Perfect Aim that increases the range of Gilnean Cocktail and refunds 75% of it's mana cost if it hits a hero returns the mana even if only the AoE component hits a hero, so it seems like it'll be decent for laning against a melee hiding in their minion wave.
The cooldown on W only starts when it falls off.
This thread is like Groundhog Day whenever a new hero is released.
It might take you more than a game or two before you know how well a hero will compete.
edit: it does look like he does pretty well with tass's regen shield and lvl20 cleave tho
Didn't you get the memo? This is Munkus Beaver having an Opinion!
The level 1 talent that reduces its cooldown with AAs while it's up is nice. It still starts when it ends, but shortened by however much you AA'd for its duration. So potentially instant.
Must have gone to spam!
Asking because I wanna know if I should queue up with Tassadar or Brightwing.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Aye, the perceived strength thing is something not enough people realize. Like I legitimately have no idea how good I am at Sonya because every game I'm either murdering everything or totally useless, and I think it has a lot to do with how good the other team is.
Also this hasn't been brought up in a while but I just want to say I really hope Blizz doesn't do the per-hero-MMR thing. At least not have that be a primary method of matchmaking--have that modify their regular MMR a bit, if they have enough games for it to be significant, maybe. But even then I don't think your hero MMR would be significant until you have like two or three dozen games in on a hero, and it'd suck tanking your MMR with a certain hero early because you're still learning them and then when you actually figure out how to play the hero you're constantly getting worse games every time you queue with that hero.
Either should be fine. He's severely lacking sustain imo. Gameplay feels like Gnar in LoL
Streaming 8PST on weeknights
When he dives he's vulnerable to bursting, so I guess Tass for the shield?
If you're desperate you can try to make him a sustained range DPS, but he does so much less damage in ranged form that it seems like a waste. You might be better off building him for burst and then getting out once your cooldowns are used up.
Hmm also possibly Khar or Rheg.
I'm starting to really not like LiLi very much soooo...
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Yeah I have the same issue with Sonya, I think she's a good example of a hero who feels shitty whenever you're losing. She's an all-in hero who has no real means of escape, and the enemy team is incentivized to focus her so she'll usually be the first to die if a fight goes bad. Butcher is a lot like that too.
I mean, his AA dps is as high as raynor i think, and raynor is the current god king of ranged aa dps. idk though, he really seems like a hero that desperately wants to be in the game as it was 3 months ago. bruiser heavy meta that relied on poking and longer fights seems to play right into his hands, where the ultra burst stun heavy meta we live in now sucks for him twice. he has no cc to contribute to that meta, and gets lit up as a worgen near on instantly.
but certainly seems better than lunara. that's still an active trainwreck and i'm honestly shocked she got zero changes in the patch.
It has a long range, allows you to to get in their face with R, and it's five seconds of vulnerability. I'm not sold on the morph at 20, because realistically you're going to only hit 2-3 people which could be amazing in a more organized game, but in QM it's probably not worth it.
He has burst. It's a burst/stun meta.
These two things seem to fit together just fine.
i'm not saying he's bad. i just don't think he's great or really going to impact the meta. he just wishes he was in the game as it was, as i think he would be very very good in that meta. nice to not have a hero release at trash can tier for the first time since september anyway.
I have yet to play him myself, I mean. I'm gonna hold off on any real judgement til I get some good hands on (and it's been a few days), but from watching streams it seems he might be pretty dece.
Also, Stim Drone'd Greymane in Worgen form with Worgen Cleave = HOOOLY SHIT.
Edit: Some other observations: On The Prowl just seems way too good to pass up for anything else. Insatiable seems like pretty good mana return. Scented Tincture+Incendiary Elixir makes for an extremely potent reveal, especially in bushes.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Would you say he goes... Beast mode?
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