Yea, totally agree about on the prowl. It's crazy and kinda required for the same reason rev overdrive is crazy and kinda required. Huge movement speed steroids are always great especially on heroes that want to be able to choose when to go in and when to leave and are lacking movement otherwise..
I don't always take revolution overdrive. there are times more ms isn't going to save you and the damage reduction will
shrug. rev overdrive is by far and away the best talent at 7 and it's not close.
just played a game with an artanis who would never fight. 5k hero damage 18 minutes into the game on blackhearts and complained that "just 5v5 then, all we should do is 5v5 you guys are so stupid" and surprise we lost to 4v5s all day. yawn.
right now with nova the way she is blindly taking revolution overdrive is folly
nova can't oneshot you unless she's run away with gp stacks, and then she can oneshot you through fight or flight. the window of fight or flight will save you but you'll die otherwise is incredibly small and not worth giving up 30% movespeed.
right now with nova the way she is blindly taking revolution overdrive is folly
nova can't oneshot you unless she's run away with gp stacks, and then she can oneshot you through fight or flight. the window of fight or flight will save you but you'll die otherwise is incredibly small and not worth giving up 30% movespeed.
It's only 30 if you manage to hit the entire team with the cast. And fight or flight also makes it manually activatable, which lets you mitigate some of the burst with good reflexes. Not saying overdrive is bad, but there are situations where flight or fight is a better choice.
I want to love it but it just feels so much less impacful at level 7 taking up a talent than having it in the trait. I think part of it was permanently having W up and always having your Q while in lane. Them taking that out of his trait is still one of my least liked decisions they've made with this game.
They need to change his portrait. The Worgen face is fine. But literally every other hero in the game has a front facing portrait, whereas Greymane is looking to the right. It doesn't fit and also the way his face fills the hero bubble is weird on character select and the icon just looks bad. They need a redo. From the front. Make him all snarly and stuff.
I can never find anybody by portrait anyway, I want some sort of sorting/filtering options. Sorting by level would help a lot, or being able to hide heroes I don't play.
Played three games with Greymane tonight. Lost em all, unfortunately, but I had a ton of fun with him. He is my fuckin' jam. He's extremely aggressive, he does a lot of damage, and he has an escape. He feels a bit like if Raynor and Illidan (with a hint of Kerrigan) were smushed together. Thumbs up from me.
Been pumping Worgen talents, mostly, since Worgen form is goddamn amazing. Still undecided on Ults, I think they're both good. Marked for the Kill can be a bit hard to use in teamfights though, especially in tight spaces. But I've done some sick shit with it, like shooting a Nova from way across and then sticking on her and chasing her down and killing her.
Speaking of Nova, I was ruining her goddamn day with Q talents. I took Scented Tincture, Draught Overflow, and especially Incendiary Elixir. Anytime I saw her skulking around, I'd toss a Q out and prevent her from stealthing for 10 seconds. Fantastic.
Anyway though, I am a fan. My initial impression is that he's quite good, he does a lot of damage, he's capable of making some pretty sick plays, but he's also quite squishy. Good job HotS team, you finally released a Hero that isn't trashcan tier.
Edit: Oh yeah and my build: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/greymane#fzu0
Wolfheart's fantastic, love it. Scented Tincture if against stealthies.
At 4... man, anything's good. I haven't tried Eyes in the Dark but I imagine it's a good defensive talent against dive-y/chase-y teams.
At 7, same deal, anything's good. Wizened Duelist is fucking incredible if you're good about playing safe.
Either Ult is good, but Go for the Throat is my go-to.
On the Prowl, always. The movespeed is way too good and the other 13 talents suck.
Alpha Killer is great, unless I need Relentless Predator (which is amazing). Executioner if teamcomp supports it.
Tooth and Claw all day every day, it's great, use it.
This is the only hero I've sprung for at 15k gold. Jumping back and forth between forms is so much fun, as are Greymane vs Greymane duels.
Swapping back and forth between the conservative ranged mentality and the aggressive in-your-face kills mentality is weird, though. I think I'm spending too much time waiting for just the right moment to engage wolf mode.
Also, my own personal day 1 musings on where Greymane fits in, meta-wise.
So, I think he works quite well in this meta. He's definitely bursty, he's got a shitton of damage. He's a ranged and melee assassin at the same time, and that kind of flexibility is huge.
He feels like a "general pick" Assassin, falling into the same sort of category as Valla, Raynor, Thrall, etc. As in, generic high-damage pick that you can kinda just slot in anywhere at any point in the draft.
Which isn't necessarily to say "oh muh gawd he's better than Thrall", I mean. But I think he's good, I think he will see competitive play down the line.
Again though, day 1 thoughts, which I feel is important to point out. Nothing final or concrete, no hard facts, just personal musings.
Edit: And of course, I completely glossed over his weaknesses. He's very squishy. No self-sustain of any kind. His escape only works in Worgen form, meaning his Human form is actually pretty unsafe. If he gets caught out, he gets caught out. But despite this, I think most of that can be overcome through smart play, good positioning, and not being overly aggressive with Worgen form.
Not having played Greymane at all, but just looking at his level 20 talents, Unleashed seems quite lacking.
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited January 2016
Something to keep in mind: Greymane's human form (ie, 40% less than his worgen form) has about 10 more AA damage than a wrath+nexus blades Sonya does at 20 (discounting FA and Follow Through), which is also like 50 damage above Raynor with no Marksman stacks (again discounting FA). Raynor with both Inspire and Nexus Fury may attack a little faster than Greymane with Inner Beast up but it's probably negligible. And then Greymane also has his great chasing options and 40% more damaging (melee) autos that can then cleave for FULL damage in an AoE.
The guy can really shit out damage given the chance is what I'm saying. Probably way better at it than Illidan is at this point, and much more worth the support's time and effort. Not even just in pure burst, give him the support needed for him to do sustained damage (human AA build with a morales buddy + 100% ranged splash at 20 for fun times, machinegun the tank and kill the backline) and he should be disgusting.
Edit: But yeah, once I get my hands on him I'll probably play him very similar to how I play Raynor and Hammer: Attack-Move all day and abuse extra attack range. Except instead of Raynor's "remember to hit w sometimes" and Hammer's "remember to hit r sometimes" it's "remember than you can hit E to chase someone halfway across the map"
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
You really can't build his Human AA up to anything useful. There's Quicksilver Bullets at 7 which increases range, but that's pretty meh considering the other two options are a huge buff to Gilnean Cocktail and his equivalent of Gathering Power (3% AA buff per hero takedown up to 30% ), the latter of which is probably the better option if you really want more AA damage.
His Worgen AA damage, however, is amazing. Alpha Killer, his Level 16 Giant Killer equivalent, is 3% of a total hero's HP. That's ridiculous given his W-buffed attack speed is nearly the same as Raynor's. Throw in the Level 20 cleave and he can basically do Maelstrom damage without needing an ult.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited January 2016
A human AA build like this seems like it'd be fine. Play like Raynor most of the time, pew pew, then GftT in to secure kills and use stealthy disengage to get back to safety. It's probably like Valla where yeah, you can do the sustained ranged DPS build, but [other burstier build] (Q for Valla, Worgen for Greymane) is usually better. But I certainly think playing Greymane like that could be a viable alternative to say, picking Raynor, if Raynor was banned out but you wanted a similar effect. Or you wanted Raynor-esque ranged presence but also needed someone who can chase and secure kills.
I also highly doubt Alpha Killer is ever really the way to go, except against like 3+ big HP pools (or maybe 2 HP pools if you absolutely can't tank bust otherwise). 75% CC resistance ALWAYS while in wolf form? hory shet.
Actually, does Alpha Killer damage cleave with the level 20 talent? If it does then maybe it's justifiable, but you have to be against a very CC-light team to consider taking it over Relentless on five different types of steroids.
edit: whoops, forgot to take a level 7 talent in that build. Probably fair tho, as that's the flex tier--quicksilver or wizened. I'm really leery of wizened because it's very win-morey, as we've discussed ad naseum with GP; I'd rather take a talent that is always solid and a boon to my play than one that sometimes is amazing, other times is useless. I don't want to plan to be playing from ahead unless our team comp is expressly built to do that (like early game Kerrigan gank squads).
Although you could even take Incendiary at 7, if for whatever reason you feel you don't need the range (maybe the other team is mostly melee) and you don't trust Wizened. If you'll be in human form most of the time making your nuke a lot easier to hit is probably a fine choice as well.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
It might take you more than a game or two before you know how well a hero will compete.
Didn't you get the memo? This is Munkus Beaver having an Opinion!
: \
And I'm giving my initial impression of him. He has literally zero sustain, but he has amazing damage. With support, he is a beast. The damage drop off from worgen to human is noticeable, and considering you don't actually have an escape while in human form (which is...really odd) Worgen form is often the form to be in.
If you want to stick it out in human form, you can basically be a kinda...meta Raynor, even get the range boost with a Ult that lets you put a Death mark skill shot on someone from afar. I'd still prefer to have his kill shot move that can be chained to attack again if you get a KB. Especially since he has his own form of GP for his AA in his worgen form. The dude is a force to be reckoned with, but I am surprised that he doesn't have more options in human form to do things. Other than range, that's about it. Range is nice and all, but that's really about it. Worgen he can disengage either toward an enemy or away an enemy. Human he can even worgen form away (unless there is a wall/minion for him to chew) and he can do the nice spec into disengage stealth. And worgen Q has a neat lunge to it while human form does minor damage to the primary target, but major damage in a cone behind the target, but only if you hit the primary target (unless you spec for it).
And yeah, I would really take the talent to make sure your W is always up. You always want your W up, and since the CD only starts ticking once you drop your combo, the talent that lets you lower that CD to basically nothing is a God-send.
But dang, Echo, hurtful words, man. :<
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
It might take you more than a game or two before you know how well a hero will compete.
Didn't you get the memo? This is Munkus Beaver having an Opinion!
: \
But dang, Echo, hurtful words, man. :<
Can't be too hard on him, man. I remember you saying Iron Fist was the light when Monk first dropped :P
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Another thing I am learning is that you basically need to build for human or for worgen, but not for both. And also that regardless, that level one talent you take needs to be wolfheart, because revealing Nova/Zera a bit does not compare to having 100% basic uptime on your most potent damage increase.
So I basically think (and again, this is early thinking and can easily change) that the basic builds would be
1: Wolfheart -> Worgen
4:Eyes in the Dark (since escapes are a big deal, being able to stealth when you need to are such a huge life saver you have no idea)
7: Wizened Duelist (It's like gathering power, except for your worgen autoattacks)
10: Go For The Throat (Leap at target hero, swiping three times for a LOT of damage. If you kill, you may use the skill again on another hero within a shot amount of time. 60 second CD. A great way to secure the kill. And a low as shit CD!)
13: On the Prowl (Wow. Just fucking WOW. Seriously. Holy shit. This thing gives you a huge run speed bonus and all you have to do is keep up your basically mandatory combo W skill for 3 seconds and it stays active for as long as the buff is on you. Useful for chasing, retreating, and you can even transform back to a human and pepper people with shots as you keep the thing refreshed and run.)
16: Variation (Depending on who you are facing, and what team comp you have, Alpha Killer, Executioner, and Relentless Pursuer all have their value. Alone Alpha Killer is what you want, Executioner is great if you have a team where you can take advantage of it...and Relentless Pursuer...well, Greymane just doesn't have a ton of health to live through CC. But it can help you get through slows and if they have squishies and you can't take advantage of Executioner then it's a great pick)
20: Tooth and Claw is probably the better choice over Unleashed (the upgrade to GFTT), your AA are your strongest weapon and in team fights it spreads the love. And while securing kills are what you excel at, counting on GFTT to get back to back kills is a little...win more.
Human
4: Draught Overflow (can also take Eyes in the Dark if you think you are going to morph enough and can use the stealth)
7: Quicksilver Bullets <- TURNS YOU INTO RAYNOR! Well, at least it gives you his range, basically. But still, between that and your W you are shooting like its no tomorrow. Gilnean Cocktail is decent if you ignored Wolfheart and are hunting for Novas to destealth for 10seconds, or just want to do AoE damage in general, but since human Gilneas wants to stay the fuck away from the fight as much as possible, Quicksilver Bullets seems like one of the two must have talents (the other beying Wolfheart)
10: Marked for the Kill (A skillshot that increases the damage done to the first hero it hits by 25%, deals a small of damage when it hits. Can be activated to leap to the hero in Worgen form. 60 Second CD. Low CD on this one too, but a decent number of heroes get the 'weakness' ability. Still, a decent way to turn the tables in a teamfight by firing a weakness shot and burning down a hero before the enemy can react. Puts up a big-ass paw over whoever is hit by the shot so it's obvious, 5 seconds is a long time to react. But it is a skill-shot, not a target, so to paraphrase Hamilton: Do not through away your shot.)
13: On the Prowl (Seriously. This thing is amazing. Even when running, you can do a pivot, shot, run for 2 seconds, pivot, shot, run for 2 seconds, repeat. Just keep refreshing it by getting off one AA and you can retreat, or you can constantly keep it up.
16: Concentrated Blast (The above stuff in the Worgen section does apply here too, but Concentrated blast is good against any team, since your W should be up all the time. But all the things about the other abilities are true too.)
20: Either Honestly, both of these are really good. Making everyone on the other team hit by your ult is amazing. Have splash attacks on your AA (which is your primary mode of attack) is amazing. Go with whichever fits your playstyle. The Ult might work better if your team has the AoE to make it work, the splash attacks might work better if you are the workhorse of the team and are getting stimmed by Morales.
And what I said before still remains true. If Greymane is a B- hero without a support, he's a solid A with a support. He has zero sustain so he has to constantly well up or hit the base to keep from dying. Human form might be a requirement if you don't have a support if only because you don't have the ability to jump in and melee and must poke, but the flip side is if they have someone who can jump in on you then Greymane's human form has zero escapes of his own that aren't worgen leaping to an out of place enemy structure/minion. Greymane is not at all beefy, and can dish out damage that would make the Butcher jealous, but since he has zero sustain he can't stay in the fight (without support) and will have to bow out gracefully in order to keep his death-count low. And if there is a nova on the prowl (and oh God, there always is) then he really can't afford to be below 50%, since he has zero defenses against her.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Greymane looks like the character to kill Joanna, Muradin, and other unkillable heroes
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Morales was the last support. Khara was right before her. Depending on who you count, Cho or Artanis was our last tank.
Specialist?
Uh...
Uh....
Phone a friend?
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+1
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I should also mention that the ringmaster Greymane's Worgen form is a Lion.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Morales was the last support. Khara was right before her. Depending on who you count, Cho or Artanis was our last tank.
Specialist?
Uh...
Uh....
Phone a friend?
Looks like it was Sylvie, last March
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Maybe it's because it's easy to design one of the holy trinity, but a specialist is just something they lump a character that doesn't fit their standard of class design?
Fuck if I know.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
I was more referring to the fact that he was released for an hour and your first words were "So Greyman is shit".
Not "I've only played him one damn time and have no idea how yet but I was garbage with him"
Just a tip for Greymane, an icon will appear over the target's head when you can kill it with Go for the Throat and get the reset.
+2
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I was more referring to the fact that he was released for an hour and your first words were "So Greyman is shit".
Not "I've only played him one damn time and have no idea how yet but I was garbage with him"
No, it was "He's shit unless" and I stand by that if you are against a serious comp. He is paper. He has no sustain. He needs support. He is a fucking beast with support to keep him from running back to base every engagement.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Posts
That term is still reserved for Bestial Wrath + Stim Drone Misha.
Addendum: It's very strange that his portrait is of his Worgen form.
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My only complaint is that I really wish mounting up didn't default him to human form. In WoW Worgen are able to ride horses.
shrug. rev overdrive is by far and away the best talent at 7 and it's not close.
just played a game with an artanis who would never fight. 5k hero damage 18 minutes into the game on blackhearts and complained that "just 5v5 then, all we should do is 5v5 you guys are so stupid" and surprise we lost to 4v5s all day. yawn.
During a match, it looks fine.
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nova can't oneshot you unless she's run away with gp stacks, and then she can oneshot you through fight or flight. the window of fight or flight will save you but you'll die otherwise is incredibly small and not worth giving up 30% movespeed.
It's only 30 if you manage to hit the entire team with the cast. And fight or flight also makes it manually activatable, which lets you mitigate some of the burst with good reflexes. Not saying overdrive is bad, but there are situations where flight or fight is a better choice.
I want to love it but it just feels so much less impacful at level 7 taking up a talent than having it in the trait. I think part of it was permanently having W up and always having your Q while in lane. Them taking that out of his trait is still one of my least liked decisions they've made with this game.
Makes sense to me, his Worgen form is visually more iconic than another human face.
Been pumping Worgen talents, mostly, since Worgen form is goddamn amazing. Still undecided on Ults, I think they're both good. Marked for the Kill can be a bit hard to use in teamfights though, especially in tight spaces. But I've done some sick shit with it, like shooting a Nova from way across and then sticking on her and chasing her down and killing her.
Speaking of Nova, I was ruining her goddamn day with Q talents. I took Scented Tincture, Draught Overflow, and especially Incendiary Elixir. Anytime I saw her skulking around, I'd toss a Q out and prevent her from stealthing for 10 seconds. Fantastic.
Anyway though, I am a fan. My initial impression is that he's quite good, he does a lot of damage, he's capable of making some pretty sick plays, but he's also quite squishy. Good job HotS team, you finally released a Hero that isn't trashcan tier.
Edit: Oh yeah and my build: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/greymane#fzu0
Wolfheart's fantastic, love it. Scented Tincture if against stealthies.
At 4... man, anything's good. I haven't tried Eyes in the Dark but I imagine it's a good defensive talent against dive-y/chase-y teams.
At 7, same deal, anything's good. Wizened Duelist is fucking incredible if you're good about playing safe.
Either Ult is good, but Go for the Throat is my go-to.
On the Prowl, always. The movespeed is way too good and the other 13 talents suck.
Alpha Killer is great, unless I need Relentless Predator (which is amazing). Executioner if teamcomp supports it.
Tooth and Claw all day every day, it's great, use it.
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Swapping back and forth between the conservative ranged mentality and the aggressive in-your-face kills mentality is weird, though. I think I'm spending too much time waiting for just the right moment to engage wolf mode.
Also the pumpkin under his worgen-ghost's claw.
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So, I think he works quite well in this meta. He's definitely bursty, he's got a shitton of damage. He's a ranged and melee assassin at the same time, and that kind of flexibility is huge.
He feels like a "general pick" Assassin, falling into the same sort of category as Valla, Raynor, Thrall, etc. As in, generic high-damage pick that you can kinda just slot in anywhere at any point in the draft.
Which isn't necessarily to say "oh muh gawd he's better than Thrall", I mean. But I think he's good, I think he will see competitive play down the line.
Again though, day 1 thoughts, which I feel is important to point out. Nothing final or concrete, no hard facts, just personal musings.
Edit: And of course, I completely glossed over his weaknesses. He's very squishy. No self-sustain of any kind. His escape only works in Worgen form, meaning his Human form is actually pretty unsafe. If he gets caught out, he gets caught out. But despite this, I think most of that can be overcome through smart play, good positioning, and not being overly aggressive with Worgen form.
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The guy can really shit out damage given the chance is what I'm saying. Probably way better at it than Illidan is at this point, and much more worth the support's time and effort. Not even just in pure burst, give him the support needed for him to do sustained damage (human AA build with a morales buddy + 100% ranged splash at 20 for fun times, machinegun the tank and kill the backline) and he should be disgusting.
Edit: But yeah, once I get my hands on him I'll probably play him very similar to how I play Raynor and Hammer: Attack-Move all day and abuse extra attack range. Except instead of Raynor's "remember to hit w sometimes" and Hammer's "remember to hit r sometimes" it's "remember than you can hit E to chase someone halfway across the map"
His Worgen AA damage, however, is amazing. Alpha Killer, his Level 16 Giant Killer equivalent, is 3% of a total hero's HP. That's ridiculous given his W-buffed attack speed is nearly the same as Raynor's. Throw in the Level 20 cleave and he can basically do Maelstrom damage without needing an ult.
I also highly doubt Alpha Killer is ever really the way to go, except against like 3+ big HP pools (or maybe 2 HP pools if you absolutely can't tank bust otherwise). 75% CC resistance ALWAYS while in wolf form? hory shet.
Actually, does Alpha Killer damage cleave with the level 20 talent? If it does then maybe it's justifiable, but you have to be against a very CC-light team to consider taking it over Relentless on five different types of steroids.
edit: whoops, forgot to take a level 7 talent in that build. Probably fair tho, as that's the flex tier--quicksilver or wizened. I'm really leery of wizened because it's very win-morey, as we've discussed ad naseum with GP; I'd rather take a talent that is always solid and a boon to my play than one that sometimes is amazing, other times is useless. I don't want to plan to be playing from ahead unless our team comp is expressly built to do that (like early game Kerrigan gank squads).
Although you could even take Incendiary at 7, if for whatever reason you feel you don't need the range (maybe the other team is mostly melee) and you don't trust Wizened. If you'll be in human form most of the time making your nuke a lot easier to hit is probably a fine choice as well.
: \
And I'm giving my initial impression of him. He has literally zero sustain, but he has amazing damage. With support, he is a beast. The damage drop off from worgen to human is noticeable, and considering you don't actually have an escape while in human form (which is...really odd) Worgen form is often the form to be in.
If you want to stick it out in human form, you can basically be a kinda...meta Raynor, even get the range boost with a Ult that lets you put a Death mark skill shot on someone from afar. I'd still prefer to have his kill shot move that can be chained to attack again if you get a KB. Especially since he has his own form of GP for his AA in his worgen form. The dude is a force to be reckoned with, but I am surprised that he doesn't have more options in human form to do things. Other than range, that's about it. Range is nice and all, but that's really about it. Worgen he can disengage either toward an enemy or away an enemy. Human he can even worgen form away (unless there is a wall/minion for him to chew) and he can do the nice spec into disengage stealth. And worgen Q has a neat lunge to it while human form does minor damage to the primary target, but major damage in a cone behind the target, but only if you hit the primary target (unless you spec for it).
And yeah, I would really take the talent to make sure your W is always up. You always want your W up, and since the CD only starts ticking once you drop your combo, the talent that lets you lower that CD to basically nothing is a God-send.
But dang, Echo, hurtful words, man. :<
Can't be too hard on him, man. I remember you saying Iron Fist was the light when Monk first dropped :P
So I basically think (and again, this is early thinking and can easily change) that the basic builds would be
1: Wolfheart ->
Worgen
4:Eyes in the Dark (since escapes are a big deal, being able to stealth when you need to are such a huge life saver you have no idea)
7: Wizened Duelist (It's like gathering power, except for your worgen autoattacks)
10: Go For The Throat (Leap at target hero, swiping three times for a LOT of damage. If you kill, you may use the skill again on another hero within a shot amount of time. 60 second CD. A great way to secure the kill. And a low as shit CD!)
13: On the Prowl (Wow. Just fucking WOW. Seriously. Holy shit. This thing gives you a huge run speed bonus and all you have to do is keep up your basically mandatory combo W skill for 3 seconds and it stays active for as long as the buff is on you. Useful for chasing, retreating, and you can even transform back to a human and pepper people with shots as you keep the thing refreshed and run.)
16: Variation (Depending on who you are facing, and what team comp you have, Alpha Killer, Executioner, and Relentless Pursuer all have their value. Alone Alpha Killer is what you want, Executioner is great if you have a team where you can take advantage of it...and Relentless Pursuer...well, Greymane just doesn't have a ton of health to live through CC. But it can help you get through slows and if they have squishies and you can't take advantage of Executioner then it's a great pick)
20: Tooth and Claw is probably the better choice over Unleashed (the upgrade to GFTT), your AA are your strongest weapon and in team fights it spreads the love. And while securing kills are what you excel at, counting on GFTT to get back to back kills is a little...win more.
Human
4: Draught Overflow (can also take Eyes in the Dark if you think you are going to morph enough and can use the stealth)
7: Quicksilver Bullets <- TURNS YOU INTO RAYNOR! Well, at least it gives you his range, basically. But still, between that and your W you are shooting like its no tomorrow. Gilnean Cocktail is decent if you ignored Wolfheart and are hunting for Novas to destealth for 10seconds, or just want to do AoE damage in general, but since human Gilneas wants to stay the fuck away from the fight as much as possible, Quicksilver Bullets seems like one of the two must have talents (the other beying Wolfheart)
10: Marked for the Kill (A skillshot that increases the damage done to the first hero it hits by 25%, deals a small of damage when it hits. Can be activated to leap to the hero in Worgen form. 60 Second CD. Low CD on this one too, but a decent number of heroes get the 'weakness' ability. Still, a decent way to turn the tables in a teamfight by firing a weakness shot and burning down a hero before the enemy can react. Puts up a big-ass paw over whoever is hit by the shot so it's obvious, 5 seconds is a long time to react. But it is a skill-shot, not a target, so to paraphrase Hamilton: Do not through away your shot.)
13: On the Prowl (Seriously. This thing is amazing. Even when running, you can do a pivot, shot, run for 2 seconds, pivot, shot, run for 2 seconds, repeat. Just keep refreshing it by getting off one AA and you can retreat, or you can constantly keep it up.
16: Concentrated Blast (The above stuff in the Worgen section does apply here too, but Concentrated blast is good against any team, since your W should be up all the time. But all the things about the other abilities are true too.)
20: Either Honestly, both of these are really good. Making everyone on the other team hit by your ult is amazing. Have splash attacks on your AA (which is your primary mode of attack) is amazing. Go with whichever fits your playstyle. The Ult might work better if your team has the AoE to make it work, the splash attacks might work better if you are the workhorse of the team and are getting stimmed by Morales.
And what I said before still remains true. If Greymane is a B- hero without a support, he's a solid A with a support. He has zero sustain so he has to constantly well up or hit the base to keep from dying. Human form might be a requirement if you don't have a support if only because you don't have the ability to jump in and melee and must poke, but the flip side is if they have someone who can jump in on you then Greymane's human form has zero escapes of his own that aren't worgen leaping to an out of place enemy structure/minion. Greymane is not at all beefy, and can dish out damage that would make the Butcher jealous, but since he has zero sustain he can't stay in the fight (without support) and will have to bow out gracefully in order to keep his death-count low. And if there is a nova on the prowl (and oh God, there always is) then he really can't afford to be below 50%, since he has zero defenses against her.
Pretty sure I said that the healing thing was all anyone would ever pick with the monk before it was released.
Who was the last specialist? Sylvie-bae?
Specialist?
Uh...
Uh....
Phone a friend?
Looks like it was Sylvie, last March
Fuck if I know.
Not "I've only played him one damn time and have no idea how yet but I was garbage with him"
No, it was "He's shit unless" and I stand by that if you are against a serious comp. He is paper. He has no sustain. He needs support. He is a fucking beast with support to keep him from running back to base every engagement.