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[Heroes of the Storm] There is no new hero, ONLY XUL.

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Posts

  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    How does everyone feel about the match maker changes?

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    WHY

    WHY DO YOU EVEN

    IT'S 5 V 2 OF COURSE YOU'LL DIE

    WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Mace1370 wrote: »
    How does everyone feel about the match maker changes?

    What are they?

    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    shryke wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Damn, I missed a quest last night thanks to being out late for New Year's Eve. Stupid new year!

    I logged in before bed to clear the quest queue a bit. :P
    I tried to do my 3 Support quest but I was too tired and dozed off before I could finish it.

    Now I'm 400 more gold behind the "buy all heroes" curve!

    forty on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    forty wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Damn, I missed a quest last night thanks to being out late for New Year's Eve. Stupid new year!

    I logged in before bed to clear the quest queue a bit. :P
    I tried to do my 3 Support quest but I was too tired and dozed off before I could finish it.

    Now I'm 400 more gold behind the "buy all heroes" curve!

    To be fair, I only had time to clear my "Play 3 Warrior Games" quest instead of the "Win 3 games" quest I would usually have done, so I'm some fraction of a quests worth of gold behind too because of sub-optimal quest completing.

    Though to be fair I could buy all the heroes I don't have right now if I needed to, I just want to wait for some price drops so I can continue to build a nice nest egg for later purchases.

    shryke on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Yeah, I'm still probably a few months away from being able to afford everyone, which means I'm probably more like a year behind since the goalposts keep moving back.

    forty on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    Cho'gall is pretty hilarious. Gall dishes out an outrageous amount of damage and Cho waddles around being annoying.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Cho is no lightweight if you can safely get in range to punch things in the face. But Gall is a goddamn beast for getting huge damage numbers.

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    CXrWw27WkAAR14K.jpg:large
    In a stark contrast from my earlier HL game, we fucking smashed the enemy team in this one. God my Kerrigan is disgusting.

    Level lead practically all game, winning team fights handily, kills kills kills. Our Diablo was screeching at us to "kill the medic", but I told him that we were still getting kills and winning teamfights. Then he said "yeah but i'm dying though". So maybe... be less aggressive? It's not like we weren't trying to focus Morales, but often we couldn't get to her. But hey, guess what, 5 people pounding on one target can burst through Morales's healing. GASP. Crazy, I know.

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Well Diablo, if you are dying and your team is winning, then you are doing something right.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Plus as Diablo, pick the front line. It's just as good alot of time.

    The tank runs into your range, Suplex and Bump them into your team and out of range of their healer and then blow them up. And now you've got an advantage.

    This is especially true with Morales who's biggest issue is usually keeping the person getting beat on in range of the heal beam.

    shryke on
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Kai_San wrote: »
    Well Diablo, if you are dying and your team is winning, then you are doing something right.

    I actually had a game where my team was pretty bad. I was Diablo and went revive build (60 soul revive and passive soul generation).

    I died a total of 14 times. Like, a ton. It was on BoE though and we basically won every single immortal from the second one on. I'd die in team fights but would be back in theatres fully healed in just a few secs to keep bruising the enemy while my allies eventually killed them all.

    Was an interesting game.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • Maledict66Maledict66 Registered User regular
    Some people still cannot get over the fact that focussing the healer is sometimes *not* the right course of action in a MOBA. The PA comic is definitely wrong here - if you're team can't get past their frontline, then burn their frontline. Don't die just trying to bully past two tanks who will be CCing you to death as you try.

  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Yeah, and often times peeling off a tank and focusing them down while chain stunning can be very fast, and then their team of squishes crumbles.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    The biggest thing about this game is that the relative distances are much smaller and much more pronounced than in other games, so it takes a really long time to get people used to that (if ever). Even in other Blizzard games like Diablo and Starcraft, a "ranged" character means that you can shoot someone from a distance that a melee character would take a good 3-5 seconds to reach if they just walked over without using a gap closer. In HotS that distance is like 2 seconds at the most, and it looks tiny on the map, like 1-2 feet, but it is huge in terms of gameplay.

    Expand this to the positioning of everyone in a team fight and you basically have the same thing. They assume that you can just walk past someone or squeeze into spaces that in other games/contexts looks really small, but against a skilled opponent is all the opening they need to catch you and blow you up. Since a lot of people don't play at that level, they don't get punished for it as much and expect you to be able to just walk past the enemy team and shoot the medic.

    I run into this a lot when playing as Cho'gall with anyone except @TheStig . People who have played him in enough games starts to pick up pretty quickly that he's tremendously undertuned right now, especially in the HP department. So running up and facetanking shit to blow it up is a recipe for disaster against a good team, because they will chain their skills to lock you down long enough to kill you (which is about 1 second longer than is needed to kill anyone else, and about 17 seconds shorter than is needed to kill Johanna). Not to mention that in a team fight, separating your fat Cho ass from buffering the rest of your team with Gall's damage means that they are exposed to getting flanked and peeled in what is already a 5 v 4 fight. This means that to stay alive and win team fights, I have to juke back and forth in Gall's poke range and constantly re-position so that we are never cut off, which is understandably super annoying for people who aren't used to it and expect to be able to stay in melee range and hit stuff.

  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Gall can do so much work if the Cho is just smart enough to maintain a bit of distance and stay alive. I shake my head at Chos who just run in when all they gotta do is be reasonably close to dudes for the most damaging mage in the game to do work.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • SupagoatSupagoat Registered User regular
    Man, I'm charging up the ranks in HL now. It has taken me so much less time to get through the 20s than it did the 30s because, given a competent set of teammates, I tend to win. It also helps that I figured out that I tend to win when I tank. At 21 now and looking forward to hitting the teens.

    It just really illustrates how a single terrible person can tank a team's chances. It may be 'fair' in the sense that everyone has the same chance of picking up a shitster on their team, but there is a magnetic force that holds people back in elo hell and makes it really hard to break out of. I was reminded of how bad it was when I played a match with Anteus, as he is currently in hell. You can fight your way out, but it takes many games and much perseverance.

    bnet: Supagoat#1884
    Switch: 6589-6405-3399
  • Mace1370Mace1370 Registered User regular
    Spaffy wrote: »
    Mace1370 wrote: »
    How does everyone feel about the match maker changes?

    What are they?

    Matchmaking takes longer and is supposed to provide better quality match ups. There are a few additional details, but that is the gist of it.

  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    The biggest thing about this game is that the relative distances are much smaller and much more pronounced than in other games, so it takes a really long time to get people used to that (if ever). Even in other Blizzard games like Diablo and Starcraft, a "ranged" character means that you can shoot someone from a distance that a melee character would take a good 3-5 seconds to reach if they just walked over without using a gap closer. In HotS that distance is like 2 seconds at the most, and it looks tiny on the map, like 1-2 feet, but it is huge in terms of gameplay.

    Expand this to the positioning of everyone in a team fight and you basically have the same thing. They assume that you can just walk past someone or squeeze into spaces that in other games/contexts looks really small, but against a skilled opponent is all the opening they need to catch you and blow you up. Since a lot of people don't play at that level, they don't get punished for it as much and expect you to be able to just walk past the enemy team and shoot the medic.

    I run into this a lot when playing as Cho'gall with anyone except TheStig . People who have played him in enough games starts to pick up pretty quickly that he's tremendously undertuned right now, especially in the HP department. So running up and facetanking shit to blow it up is a recipe for disaster against a good team, because they will chain their skills to lock you down long enough to kill you (which is about 1 second longer than is needed to kill anyone else, and about 17 seconds shorter than is needed to kill Johanna). Not to mention that in a team fight, separating your fat Cho ass from buffering the rest of your team with Gall's damage means that they are exposed to getting flanked and peeled in what is already a 5 v 4 fight. This means that to stay alive and win team fights, I have to juke back and forth in Gall's poke range and constantly re-position so that we are never cut off, which is understandably super annoying for people who aren't used to it and expect to be able to stay in melee range and hit stuff.

    Haha, I dunno. I pretty much play Cho the polar opposite of that. I get in there. I play super aggressively. I make sure to start backing out when I know I need to, but I play Cho aggressively as hell. He still does decent damage (especially with Runed Gauntlet), he's got great bodyblocking and he's a massive HP sponge. You want to be taking the aggro and soaking all the damage for the rest of your teammates. As long as you're saving your Q to escape, and not staying in too long, you're fine.

    The passive Cho playstyle has never really quite gelled with me, I mean. Which isn't to say I'm ALWAYS aggressive. It's more like, passive-aggressive? As in, I'll start out hovering around in a safe range, let Gall poke, THEN go in and smash faces after the enemy team has been whittled down. I'm just not really a fan of always staying back though. There's a lot of times where I can secure kills simply because I stick around and stick on targets, rather than let a low health target flee.

    At the end of the day, I suppose it's just playstyle differences, though. Do what works for you!

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    Idle thoughts: how does it work to pick Cho'gall in Hero League? Do you need to wait until two people can pick and they both need to pick Cho'gall or something?

  • UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    you need to be duo queued
    all duo queued people in HL occupy the 2 pick spot

    UrQuanLord88 on
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/urquanlord88
    urquanlord88.png
    Streaming 8PST on weeknights
  • InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    you need to be duo queued
    all duo queued people in HL occupy the 2 pick spot

    this isn't quite right.

    I have solo-queue gall'd for a random cho who just happened to be next to me in the picking.

    Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
  • UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    I'm going off the information that DB tweeted when Cho'gall was launched:
    "DustinBrowder How the hell does Cho'gall work in Solo queue? Do you match him with another head randomly? Or only premades allowed?"

    http://steamcommunity.com/id/urquanlord88
    urquanlord88.png
    Streaming 8PST on weeknights
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I'm going off the information that DB tweeted when Cho'gall was launched:
    "DustinBrowder How the hell does Cho'gall work in Solo queue? Do you match him with another head randomly? Or only premades allowed?"

    That's for QM, in HL you can pick Cho'gall with whoever is in a 2-pick slot with you.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    It was a defeat, BUT...

    T9IbsGi.jpg

    Thank you holiday stim-pack!

    IJN3KV6.jpg

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2016
    TheStig wrote: »
    Gall can do so much work if the Cho is just smart enough to maintain a bit of distance and stay alive. I shake my head at Chos who just run in when all they gotta do is be reasonably close to dudes for the most damaging mage in the game to do work.

    Yeah, a good Cho knows that Gall is a basically doing Chaos dunks, and Cho keeps the team alive.

    A good Gall is doing chaos dunks and spitting hot fire.

    Cho'Gall is a mobile self healing siege tank that can spit out all of the damage. The biggest threat would be....Diablo.

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Master Tass get, yay. I am still horrible at placing walls.

    I want master bw too but she is so underwhelming right now, sigh.

    I was on vacay, so this is belated:

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year HOTS thread! May all your QMs be full of ringers and your HLs full of teamwork! Yay!

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    The biggest thing about this game is that the relative distances are much smaller and much more pronounced than in other games, so it takes a really long time to get people used to that (if ever). Even in other Blizzard games like Diablo and Starcraft, a "ranged" character means that you can shoot someone from a distance that a melee character would take a good 3-5 seconds to reach if they just walked over without using a gap closer. In HotS that distance is like 2 seconds at the most, and it looks tiny on the map, like 1-2 feet, but it is huge in terms of gameplay.

    Expand this to the positioning of everyone in a team fight and you basically have the same thing. They assume that you can just walk past someone or squeeze into spaces that in other games/contexts looks really small, but against a skilled opponent is all the opening they need to catch you and blow you up. Since a lot of people don't play at that level, they don't get punished for it as much and expect you to be able to just walk past the enemy team and shoot the medic.

    I run into this a lot when playing as Cho'gall with anyone except TheStig . People who have played him in enough games starts to pick up pretty quickly that he's tremendously undertuned right now, especially in the HP department. So running up and facetanking shit to blow it up is a recipe for disaster against a good team, because they will chain their skills to lock you down long enough to kill you (which is about 1 second longer than is needed to kill anyone else, and about 17 seconds shorter than is needed to kill Johanna). Not to mention that in a team fight, separating your fat Cho ass from buffering the rest of your team with Gall's damage means that they are exposed to getting flanked and peeled in what is already a 5 v 4 fight. This means that to stay alive and win team fights, I have to juke back and forth in Gall's poke range and constantly re-position so that we are never cut off, which is understandably super annoying for people who aren't used to it and expect to be able to stay in melee range and hit stuff.

    Haha, I dunno. I pretty much play Cho the polar opposite of that. I get in there. I play super aggressively. I make sure to start backing out when I know I need to, but I play Cho aggressively as hell. He still does decent damage (especially with Runed Gauntlet), he's got great bodyblocking and he's a massive HP sponge. You want to be taking the aggro and soaking all the damage for the rest of your teammates. As long as you're saving your Q to escape, and not staying in too long, you're fine.

    The passive Cho playstyle has never really quite gelled with me, I mean. Which isn't to say I'm ALWAYS aggressive. It's more like, passive-aggressive? As in, I'll start out hovering around in a safe range, let Gall poke, THEN go in and smash faces after the enemy team has been whittled down. I'm just not really a fan of always staying back though. There's a lot of times where I can secure kills simply because I stick around and stick on targets, rather than let a low health target flee.

    At the end of the day, I suppose it's just playstyle differences, though. Do what works for you!

    It really depends on the teams, too. Like, if Johanna and Diablo are still there and remotely competent, you aren't going to chase shit without dying. If you have a good Tass/Medic following you, then you're functionally invincible while chasing, so you can go ham all day.

  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Does the other team have a raynor? If so, you're going to have a bad time on cho'gall.

    Knight_ on
    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    Been having tons of fun as Cho with my buddy as Gall, could definitely see myself getting Cho to 10. I don't mind being the designated driver while Gall nukes things down.

  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Yeah the major problem with cho'gall is he has a lot of hard counters, and it's countering 2 heroes. God help you if Anub takes web.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    I was countering Cho'gall pretty hard as Artanis in several games the other day. They tend to panic if you keep body blocking them so they can't get away.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Does the other team have a raynor? If so, you're going to have a bad time on cho'gall.

    I know people like to say Raynor with Giant Killer is his biggest issue, but it isn't.

    It's Diablo with his special version of giant killer and Anub with Web-Wrap.

    Cho'Gall has ways to deal with Raynor. Less so Diablo and Anub.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    And Cho'Gall with medic makes the 'Raynor Counter' functionally useless.

    But the Diablo counter is still alive and OH MY GOD IT'S COMING RIGHT FOR US

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Yeah, at the end of the day Cho'galls biggest weakness is not damage, it's positioning. Cho'gall has one escape and, like everything these days, is alot more fragile then you'd think. Especially to focus fire.

    Anything that bodyblocks Cho'gall and interrupts his one escape is devastating. If you can do that, you don't even need Giant Killer.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    leroic is the best counter because his counter is available right there at level 1 while others are not

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    raynor still wrecks cho'gall even without GK if there's a warrior to hold him still

    I know this because some PA buddies were cho'galling it up, the other team's raynor took double Q (and their Tychus didn't take problem solver, either) and they still got blowded up

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Which kinda goes to a general point I was gonna make anyway which is that the current game state due to the scaling changes is all kinds of fucked up imo. It's slowly settling in as people are getting a feel for the new normal and that new normal is, well, I think the beginning of this video sums it up best:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8RWgGTRNM

    The new meta: where 3ft outside your gate is overextending.

    Any kind of CC train is king because time-to-death is now so just generally so low that the rest doesn't matter. I've been running in to alot of warrior heavy comps lately and it's more terrifying then anything else. Because the ability to grab, stun, root, whatever is enough to blow up anything. Including, like, Cho'gall. You don't need a dedicated damage dealer, nothing is gonna live long enough for it to matter most of the time.

    The scaling changes imo have swung the game so hard towards CC trains that like 4-warrior comps can now be stupidly powerful and anyone that can't drop hard CC or burst or doesn't have a good escape is in a really weak spot.

    shryke on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    shryke wrote: »
    Yeah, at the end of the day Cho'galls biggest weakness is not damage, it's positioning. Cho'gall has one escape and, like everything these days, is alot more fragile then you'd think. Especially to focus fire.

    Anything that bodyblocks Cho'gall and interrupts his one escape is devastating. If you can do that, you don't even need Giant Killer.

    Yeah, that's why I had so much fun as Artanis against Cho. Escape? Nah, you're in the middle of our team totally bodyblocked now.

  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    would be sweet if gall's ult 2 wasn't bad and then you could turn that situation around

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
This discussion has been closed.