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[Heroes of the Storm] There is no new hero, ONLY XUL.

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Posts

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    TheStig wrote: »
    would be sweet if gall's ult 2 wasn't bad and then you could turn that situation around

    I was actually thinking, if Gall's ult 2 did damage and knocked everyone away then it might not be so fucking terrible. Or if it dragged them in then threw them away in a ball.

    EDIT: Also, keel in mind that Ult 2 is on a much longer cooldown from Shadowbolt volley, one of the best Ults in the game, and possibly the best Ult in the game once you take piercing shadowbolt volley.
    I don't know if it would be too good with a shorter cooldown, but when I first saw that the cooldown on Twisting Nether was longer than the cooldown on Cho's Upheaval I was like, "wut." Talk about anti-synergy.

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    I bought a Zagara skin and forgot to wear it in my next game.

    What have these careless hands wrought . . .

  • Tim is on the InternetTim is on the Internet On the Internet Edmonton, ABRegistered User regular
    edited January 2016
    kedinik wrote: »
    I bought a Zagara skin and forgot to wear it in my next game.

    What have these careless hands wrought . . .

    I once rode Mecha Tassadar around on a unicorn rather than allowing him his right to transform and roll out.

    Tim is on the Internet on
    Discord: TimIsOnTheInternet#0056
    Steam: TimIsOnSteam
    Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
    Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
    PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
  • chuck steakchuck steak Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    forty wrote: »
    Real talk here.

    I have to hand it to Blizzard for really putting on a great holiday event in HotS. The extended 50% off everything sale was awesome. The bonus stimpack quests were great. The little touches like the Festive Goblin and the seasonal end-of-game animations are amusing. This is the way to draw people in for a holiday promotion. Good show!

    To contrast, here's what the Hearthstone team did. They offered the world's shittiest microtransaction game sale: when you buy 40 Classic packs, you get 10 more for "free." So you have to spend $40 to get the deal, and for doing so you get a whopping 25% more packs for your money. And in case you don't play HS, there are now two expansion sets you can buy packs for, and the deal only applied to the original set. Other than that, during one week they replaced the weekly Tavern Brawl bonus card pack you can get with a holiday card back skin. So as part of the holiday promotion they actually took away a weekly card pack you can obtain (something useful) in favor of a mediocre cosmetic reward. That's fucking Scrooge shit right there. And that's it. That's all they did with Hearthstone for the holiday: a crappy "sale" and taking away a pack from the players.

    TLDR: HotS Winter Veil was awesome, Hearthstone Winter Veil dropped the ball.

    I agree that the deal for the packs was bad, but the card back was awesome, and they made some of the game boards festive.

    They must sell a lot more card packs in HS than they do heroes/skins in HOTS though, or you would have seen a similar deep discount. The 50% off in HOTS felt like they just put everything at an actually reasonable price, and people ate it up thinking they were getting a deal.

    chuck steak on
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    It really baffles me that Kael has been allowed to remain in his current state. Chain bomb is the single most powerful talent in the game, increasing the damage of an ability by 3-400%. He also has the best antiburst talent in the game with arcane barrier, which basically makes him immune for 6 seconds. I really question what blizzard thinks they're doing with Kael.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    It really baffles me that Kael has been allowed to remain in his current state. Chain bomb is the single most powerful talent in the game, increasing the damage of an ability by 3-400%. He also has the best antiburst talent in the game with arcane barrier, which basically makes him immune for 6 seconds. I really question what blizzard thinks they're doing with Kael.

    They did adjust CB to only spread to 3 targets, so that's something.

  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    What Lunara needs is a speed boost Z similar to Hammer's but it goes away if hit or something. Dying with her early on is such a drag.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    He was maybe only slightly OP before the scaling changes, after they altered some of his skills. Now he's basically mandatory.

    They never should have implemented those scaling changes if they knew they wouldn't be able to adjust them before the holiday break. People have been playing what is essentially a broken game since that patch has been implemented. Before then, things weren't perfect, but you didn't bullshit like Nova and Kael'thas are right now (or Illidan, for that matter). Even the worst heroes had a chance to stay a live for longer than 3 seconds and actually contribute, and now it's just Everybody Dies.

    The current meta is built for super twitchy reaction times, and if that's going to continue then I doubt I'll be investing nearly as much time into this game over the long term. I don't play multiplayer FPS's for the exact same reason.

  • NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    They're not going to make knee jerk reactions. If anything, this break has given them tons of data to make changes if needed.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Yeah that's not what I said at all.

  • MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    They never should have implemented those scaling changes if they knew they wouldn't be able to adjust them before the holiday break.

    Hypothetically, the team couldn't sit on the scaling changes because other incoming balance decisions hinged on them, and pushing scaling back might mean either A) push those other balances back as well, or B) release the general scaling changes with character-specific changes, making post-release analysis of whether a perceived nerf/buff was due to change X or change Y a real pain in the ass

    hypothetically

    l3icwZV.png
  • NeurotikaNeurotika Registered User regular
    Sorry, I read your post as a type of hyperbole, it's not a "broken game" right now.

    The time to death and the strength of supports is still a great draw for this game.

    Maybe things are bursting down a bit quicker now, and that is worrying if they continue down that path, I agree with you.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    forty wrote: »
    TheStig wrote: »
    would be sweet if gall's ult 2 wasn't bad and then you could turn that situation around

    I was actually thinking, if Gall's ult 2 did damage and knocked everyone away then it might not be so fucking terrible. Or if it dragged them in then threw them away in a ball.

    EDIT: Also, keel in mind that Ult 2 is on a much longer cooldown from Shadowbolt volley, one of the best Ults in the game, and possibly the best Ult in the game once you take piercing shadowbolt volley.
    I don't know if it would be too good with a shorter cooldown, but when I first saw that the cooldown on Twisting Nether was longer than the cooldown on Cho's Upheaval I was like, "wut." Talk about anti-synergy.

    Keep in mind that Shadowbolt is on an absurdly low CD for what it is.

    I mean, piercing shadowbolt just deletes teams when you fight in tight spaces on objective based maps.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    the reality is, scaling had to get out before the team could remove Nova and replace Erik The Swift with Nova

    l3icwZV.png
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    ForceVoid wrote: »
    Sorry, I read your post as a type of hyperbole, it's not a "broken game" right now.

    The time to death and the strength of supports is still a great draw for this game.

    Maybe things are bursting down a bit quicker now, and that is worrying if they continue down that path, I agree with you.

    saying things are bursting down a bit quicker now is hilarious. the meta is basically stuntrains and <2 second kills on the entire roster. i miss towers actually being a threat, as is nowhere on the map is safe to avoid instaganks from incredibly easy to land stun combos.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    ForceVoid wrote: »
    Sorry, I read your post as a type of hyperbole, it's not a "broken game" right now.

    The time to death and the strength of supports is still a great draw for this game.

    Maybe things are bursting down a bit quicker now, and that is worrying if they continue down that path, I agree with you.

    I just don't want to see this game become a burstfest. It already turns into that when you're facing certain comps/heroes. Unless they are actively working on walking this problem backwards in some way, the meta is going to continue down this path because it is by far the most powerful way to win games. Without the ban mechanic in place, people will simply pick up Kael/Nova/etc. and ignore any of the weaker heroes who are easily exploited. While there's always a ranking or meta of some kind in competitive play, it wasn't that bad before. I mean, we saw some crazy comps at recent tournaments like Blizzcon that proved that you don't always need to stick to an established script to win. Now, I'm not necessarily sure that's the case.
    Machwing wrote: »
    They never should have implemented those scaling changes if they knew they wouldn't be able to adjust them before the holiday break.

    Hypothetically, the team couldn't sit on the scaling changes because other incoming balance decisions hinged on them, and pushing scaling back might mean either A) push those other balances back as well, or B) release the general scaling changes with character-specific changes, making post-release analysis of whether a perceived nerf/buff was due to change X or change Y a real pain in the ass

    hypothetically

    This argument only makes sense if you assume that the scaling changes are themselves a net positive or progressive change. Without any follow-up to adjust the inevitable skew, I'm not sure that's the case. They only released Cho'gall and Lunara in the same span that they pushed the scaling changes through, and both of those heroes are weaker than they should be. The game itself is now a lot burstier, and structures are a lot weaker. In the meantime, all you've really seen is a relative reshuffling of the existing hero balance, which was actually in a pretty good place overall. They could have easily just changed the numbers for the two new heroes to account for the existing hero scaling, and then waited until after the holiday season to implement the scaling changes.

    This would have allowed people to play what they already know is a relatively balanced, as opposed to simply embarking on an unknown and letting the chips fall where they may. Especially during a time where they knew they simply wouldn't have the bandwidth to make any changes for several months, including through a holiday and marketing season where tons of new players would be trying out the game for the first time.

    I bet Towers of Doom, for example, would be a lot less irritating to people if it didn't exacerbate the fact that structures are basically worthless now. Once you get those walls down, the fort provides almost no help in a team fight and takes literally 10 seconds to kill, and that's a direct result of the scaling change.

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Machwing works at blizz, I think

    Hypothetically

  • kedinikkedinik Registered User regular
    Poor Pajamathur.

    Never gets very much uninterrupted sleep.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Real talk here.

    I have to hand it to Blizzard for really putting on a great holiday event in HotS. The extended 50% off everything sale was awesome. The bonus stimpack quests were great. The little touches like the Festive Goblin and the seasonal end-of-game animations are amusing. This is the way to draw people in for a holiday promotion. Good show!

    To contrast, here's what the Hearthstone team did. They offered the world's shittiest microtransaction game sale: when you buy 40 Classic packs, you get 10 more for "free." So you have to spend $40 to get the deal, and for doing so you get a whopping 25% more packs for your money. And in case you don't play HS, there are now two expansion sets you can buy packs for, and the deal only applied to the original set. Other than that, during one week they replaced the weekly Tavern Brawl bonus card pack you can get with a holiday card back skin. So as part of the holiday promotion they actually took away a weekly card pack you can obtain (something useful) in favor of a mediocre cosmetic reward. That's fucking Scrooge shit right there. And that's it. That's all they did with Hearthstone for the holiday: a crappy "sale" and taking away a pack from the players.

    TLDR: HotS Winter Veil was awesome, Hearthstone Winter Veil dropped the ball.

    I agree that the deal for the packs was bad, but the card back was awesome, and they made some of the game boards festive.

    They must sell a lot more card packs in HS than they do heroes/skins in HOTS though, or you would have seen a similar deep discount. The 50% off in HOTS felt like they just put everything at an actually reasonable price, and people ate it up thinking they were getting a deal.
    The card back came at the cost of a weekly pack, and the problem with card backs in HS is you barely see your own, and you have tons of card backs but only get one at a time. As far as gaming cosmetics go, they're kinda meh.
    Well Hearthstone pulls in a lot more whale moolah than HotS, but that's a crummy reason to lame out on a holiday sale. Sure, the standard HotS prices are kind of crazy -- that's been discussed to death -- but let's not pretend that the Hearthstone pricing isn't greedy as fuck too.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    One of the things that really drew me to Heroes, way back in Alpha was the slower, more deliberate pace of battles. Combat lasts longer in Heroes in the average battle than it does in DotA, League, or Smite, in which most battles are over in mere seconds.

    Nova breaks all that. She feels like a character from a different game. And she feels like she doesn't belong in Heroes. Nobody else can 100 to 0 someone in 1 second in Heroes except for Nova. She's a one of a kind, and completely out of place.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    It's really noticeable with the new hero especially. A few stacks of gathering power and you might as well be playing a delete key.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    kedinik wrote: »
    Poor Pajamathur.

    Never gets very much uninterrupted sleep.

    don't sleep on the job

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    He was maybe only slightly OP before the scaling changes, after they altered some of his skills. Now he's basically mandatory.

    They never should have implemented those scaling changes if they knew they wouldn't be able to adjust them before the holiday break. People have been playing what is essentially a broken game since that patch has been implemented. Before then, things weren't perfect, but you didn't bullshit like Nova and Kael'thas are right now (or Illidan, for that matter). Even the worst heroes had a chance to stay a live for longer than 3 seconds and actually contribute, and now it's just Everybody Dies.

    The current meta is built for super twitchy reaction times, and if that's going to continue then I doubt I'll be investing nearly as much time into this game over the long term. I don't play multiplayer FPS's for the exact same reason.

    They didn't really have a choice on that because Cho'gall. Remember that Cho'gall is the entire reason they realised the problem with the way power changed as you leveled and Cho'gall basically requires that smoothing out of the leveling curve to work.

    And of course until you implement the scaling changes you can't do anything else or test anything else cause it's all a waste of time and inhibiting you from collecting real proper data that you need to see to make changes.


    But yes, they really need to hit this game with some serious rebalancing to at least lower the power of CC-trains. And hopefully increase the power of towers again cause seriously, tower diving in this game is now just stupidly safe.

    shryke on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I think the scaling changes needed to be done, and it will take a while to sort everything out afterwards. It's been pretty smooth all things considered though, it was hardly game-breaking.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Maybe I'm missing something but the argument that they couldn't wait, either because they couldn't evaluate later changes or they would run into problems with Cho, aren't very convincing. The former problem is an ongoing thing - there is no such thing as perfect balance, especially as new heroes are released. It strikes me as a decision driven by too much pre-planning and sheer momentum (e.g., we did all these internal tests and they will be invalidated or need to be redone if we don't proceed) rather than an assessment of the impact on the player. This also ignores the maxim that no plan survives contact with the [end user]. At the end of the day you will necessarily be making adjustments based on user feedback and performance metrics anyway, so pushing forward with an ideal plan as opposed to a pretty good one, when the end result is the same, is a little strange. Especially in light of the fact that making no change and only updating a handful of heroes results in a much smaller magnitude of change than implementing a wholesale scaling adjustment and potentially having it blow up in your face.

    As a hypothetical, what if Cho'gall and Lunara were slightly overpowered when they were introduced, but everything else was left the same and no scaling changes were introduced. Would that have the same impact that we are seeing now, or would people just be saying oh look, a new hero is OP, they'll just nerf it later?

  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    I'm sure they knew the scaling changes were gonna cause some balance issues but it was better to get it over with before there were 400 characters in the game.

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    What's the speculation for after Greymane? I need moar theory crafting guys

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    What's the speculation for after Greymane? I need moar theory crafting guys

    I've heard a lot of players asking where is Mankirk's wife, so I assume she will be added in at some point.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    What's the speculation for after Greymane? I need moar theory crafting guys

    only other announced hero is tracer, but i would assume they're going to try to sync her release a bit more with the overwatch release

    liEt3nH.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Maybe I'm missing something but the argument that they couldn't wait, either because they couldn't evaluate later changes or they would run into problems with Cho, aren't very convincing. The former problem is an ongoing thing - there is no such thing as perfect balance, especially as new heroes are released. It strikes me as a decision driven by too much pre-planning and sheer momentum (e.g., we did all these internal tests and they will be invalidated or need to be redone if we don't proceed) rather than an assessment of the impact on the player. This also ignores the maxim that no plan survives contact with the [end user]. At the end of the day you will necessarily be making adjustments based on user feedback and performance metrics anyway, so pushing forward with an ideal plan as opposed to a pretty good one, when the end result is the same, is a little strange. Especially in light of the fact that making no change and only updating a handful of heroes results in a much smaller magnitude of change than implementing a wholesale scaling adjustment and potentially having it blow up in your face.

    As a hypothetical, what if Cho'gall and Lunara were slightly overpowered when they were introduced, but everything else was left the same and no scaling changes were introduced. Would that have the same impact that we are seeing now, or would people just be saying oh look, a new hero is OP, they'll just nerf it later?

    You do seem to be missing the point. The scaling changes were coming no matter what. It had to be done. So any delay in implementing it becomes a delay in any balance change because any pre-scaling balance changes are a waste of time and energy and money. And you also lack any data from which to work on future balance changes. Once you know it's gotta happen, delaying it just introduces a complete standstill into your development pipeline.

    And beyond that, Cho'gall according to them simply didn't work pre-scaling changes. He was either stupid overpowered or stupid underpowered depending on whether he was up or down a level on the enemy.

    So delaying the scaling changes means delaying both the introduction of new heroes and the implementation of balance changes. It's just a waste of time.

    Though the timing, with the holidays and everything, is far from ideal. But I suspect they really wanted/needed to get Cho'gall out as their pre-christmas promotional event in order to get players into the game in time for teh sale.

    shryke on
  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    I still want zoltan kulle

    since he's such a great liar and all...

    his trait is that he appears on the minmap as an ally, and no skills and no autoattack will every automatically target him
    you have to click each one

    and then he can have some of the other shit he cast like tornados and cave ins

    ByalIX8.png
    B.net: Kusanku
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    What's the speculation for after Greymane? I need moar theory crafting guys

    There's still the old list of heroes that might be ready. I remember Mengsk was on there, but since he's likely a really weird hero they are probably gonna give it a bit more time between Cho'gall and him. Dehaka and I think Mekkatorque and a bunch of others were on that list too with various bits of data in the files.

    Uh, D3 Wizard I would expect soon.

    Other then that, no cue.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Hopefully D3 Wizard. The game needs more mages. Two is not a big selection. It is the smallest selection, actually. There are plenty of bows and guns. Plenty of melees. Tons of dive. Tons of sieging pushers. But only two mages.

    There used to be 3, before Tassadar was neutered. Alas. now his damage is crap and he might as well not be a High Templar. High Templars are the mages of the Starcraft universe, and a mage Tassadar is not. Not anymore.

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    There's absolutely no counterplay to Nova besides blocking Triple Tap, but that's a bad ult anyways so you'll be seeing Strike more often.

    And it's not just Gathering Power: we saw that, after the GP nerf, Nova became even more useless because she's totally reliant upon burst. It's her kit, and while I don't want to see GP 3.0 makes Nova OP or anything, it does make her complete anti-fun because she's such a binary character. Her kit is just a terrible, "baby's first character" example of design that should be removed entirely and reworked from the ground up. You will not get a good character from this kit: you will either get a character that isn't fun because she's very ineffective, or a character that isn't fun because there's no interaction to be had with "I kill you before you can react."

    Compare her to Gazlowe, a character who has been bad for a while. His kit has flaws (namely his inability to target stuff), but it's something you can work with. You can't work with Nova. It's inherently rotten design.

    YL9WnCY.png
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something but the argument that they couldn't wait, either because they couldn't evaluate later changes or they would run into problems with Cho, aren't very convincing. The former problem is an ongoing thing - there is no such thing as perfect balance, especially as new heroes are released. It strikes me as a decision driven by too much pre-planning and sheer momentum (e.g., we did all these internal tests and they will be invalidated or need to be redone if we don't proceed) rather than an assessment of the impact on the player. This also ignores the maxim that no plan survives contact with the [end user]. At the end of the day you will necessarily be making adjustments based on user feedback and performance metrics anyway, so pushing forward with an ideal plan as opposed to a pretty good one, when the end result is the same, is a little strange. Especially in light of the fact that making no change and only updating a handful of heroes results in a much smaller magnitude of change than implementing a wholesale scaling adjustment and potentially having it blow up in your face.

    As a hypothetical, what if Cho'gall and Lunara were slightly overpowered when they were introduced, but everything else was left the same and no scaling changes were introduced. Would that have the same impact that we are seeing now, or would people just be saying oh look, a new hero is OP, they'll just nerf it later?

    You do seem to be missing the point. The scaling changes were coming no matter what. It had to be done. So any delay in implementing it becomes a delay in any balance change because any pre-scaling balance changes are a waste of time and energy and money. And you also lack any data from which to work on future balance changes. Once you know it's gotta happen, delaying it just introduces a complete standstill into your development pipeline.

    And beyond that, Cho'gall according to them simply didn't work pre-scaling changes. He was either stupid overpowered or stupid underpowered depending on whether he was up or down a level on the enemy.

    So delaying the scaling changes means delaying both the introduction of new heroes and the implementation of balance changes. It's just a waste of time.

    Though the timing, with the holidays and everything, is far from ideal. But I suspect they really wanted/needed to get Cho'gall out as their pre-christmas promotional event in order to get players into the game in time for teh sale.

    Considering my entire point is that doing it right before the holidays is bad timing and shouldn't have been done, I guess I'm not missing anything? They could've introduced Cho'gall and Lunara without implementing the scaling changes. They might have been over- or under-tuned, but that's not meaningfully different from where they are now with the scaling changes.

  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    There's absolutely no counterplay to Nova besides blocking Triple Tap, but that's a bad ult anyways so you'll be seeing Strike more often.

    Triple tap is phenomenal if the enemy team is right. If they have enough squishies it's perfect. You can solo pick them off before they get to a fight, or when they're running, and choosing when to so there's no one to block it is rather easy. How many times to people just blindly run to an objective by theirselves??? -- always!

    and at lvl 20 you can triple tap a whole team to death

    mastman on
    ByalIX8.png
    B.net: Kusanku
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something but the argument that they couldn't wait, either because they couldn't evaluate later changes or they would run into problems with Cho, aren't very convincing. The former problem is an ongoing thing - there is no such thing as perfect balance, especially as new heroes are released. It strikes me as a decision driven by too much pre-planning and sheer momentum (e.g., we did all these internal tests and they will be invalidated or need to be redone if we don't proceed) rather than an assessment of the impact on the player. This also ignores the maxim that no plan survives contact with the [end user]. At the end of the day you will necessarily be making adjustments based on user feedback and performance metrics anyway, so pushing forward with an ideal plan as opposed to a pretty good one, when the end result is the same, is a little strange. Especially in light of the fact that making no change and only updating a handful of heroes results in a much smaller magnitude of change than implementing a wholesale scaling adjustment and potentially having it blow up in your face.

    As a hypothetical, what if Cho'gall and Lunara were slightly overpowered when they were introduced, but everything else was left the same and no scaling changes were introduced. Would that have the same impact that we are seeing now, or would people just be saying oh look, a new hero is OP, they'll just nerf it later?

    You do seem to be missing the point. The scaling changes were coming no matter what. It had to be done. So any delay in implementing it becomes a delay in any balance change because any pre-scaling balance changes are a waste of time and energy and money. And you also lack any data from which to work on future balance changes. Once you know it's gotta happen, delaying it just introduces a complete standstill into your development pipeline.

    And beyond that, Cho'gall according to them simply didn't work pre-scaling changes. He was either stupid overpowered or stupid underpowered depending on whether he was up or down a level on the enemy.

    So delaying the scaling changes means delaying both the introduction of new heroes and the implementation of balance changes. It's just a waste of time.

    Though the timing, with the holidays and everything, is far from ideal. But I suspect they really wanted/needed to get Cho'gall out as their pre-christmas promotional event in order to get players into the game in time for teh sale.

    Considering my entire point is that doing it right before the holidays is bad timing and shouldn't have been done, I guess I'm not missing anything? They could've introduced Cho'gall and Lunara without implementing the scaling changes. They might have been over- or under-tuned, but that's not meaningfully different from where they are now with the scaling changes.

    That's not how they tell it. Plus, again, you are ignoring how this completely stalls the entire development process for the game since nothing you do till the scaling changes happen matters.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Hopefully D3 Wizard. The game needs more mages. Two is not a big selection. It is the smallest selection, actually. There are plenty of bows and guns. Plenty of melees. Tons of dive. Tons of sieging pushers. But only two mages.

    There used to be 3, before Tassadar was neutered. Alas. now his damage is crap and he might as well not be a High Templar. High Templars are the mages of the Starcraft universe, and a mage Tassadar is not. Not anymore.

    I mean, do we really need another mage when the three that came before were game-centers-on-them-OP for long periods of time until one was gutted and totally reworked while the other two were simply tuned down to "in every game" from "literally always first pick"? :P

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    mastman wrote: »
    There's absolutely no counterplay to Nova besides blocking Triple Tap, but that's a bad ult anyways so you'll be seeing Strike more often.

    Triple tap is phenomenal if the enemy team is right. If they have enough squishies it's perfect. You can solo pick them off before they get to a fight, or when they're running, and choosing when to so there's no one to block it is rather easy. How many times to people just blindly run to an objective by theirselves??? -- always!

    and at lvl 20 you can triple tap a whole team to death

    Yeah the thing with TT is that once you hit late game, there's very little counterplay for anyone not right next to other people on their team. Even being half a screen away won't save a squishy from a Nova with some GP stacks.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    There's absolutely no counterplay to Nova besides blocking Triple Tap, but that's a bad ult anyways so you'll be seeing Strike more often.

    And it's not just Gathering Power: we saw that, after the GP nerf, Nova became even more useless because she's totally reliant upon burst. It's her kit, and while I don't want to see GP 3.0 makes Nova OP or anything, it does make her complete anti-fun because she's such a binary character. Her kit is just a terrible, "baby's first character" example of design that should be removed entirely and reworked from the ground up. You will not get a good character from this kit: you will either get a character that isn't fun because she's very ineffective, or a character that isn't fun because there's no interaction to be had with "I kill you before you can react."

    Compare her to Gazlowe, a character who has been bad for a while. His kit has flaws (namely his inability to target stuff), but it's something you can work with. You can't work with Nova. It's inherently rotten design.

    It's to the point no where whenever I play against Nova, if my character has it I automatically take Spell Shield. Even if it's not always up, it means you have a chance of taking the damage and turning on her, whereas without it you might as well just never leave your base.

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