2 sec root on a 2 second delay from a melee specialist. it'll be good, doubt it'll be op. many of the melee characters he'd want to use it on can burst heroes down in less time than that, and the ranged characters have enough time to escape to safety before it lands. as a win more ability to punish at the end of a fight or to pick off someone way out of position it'll be really good, but i don't see it being that insanely powerful at the high end. malf's roots are nearly as good and also have brutal zoning potential and nobody is calling them op.
Xul's root will make it so that if you don't run immediately upon sight of the enemy, you're dead. The 2 second cast time isn't just something that "lets people get away" (which it totally doesn't), but also an indication to your team "Get ready to kill this person and/or extend the root/stun in 2 seconds".
Malf's root isn't a guaranteed cast. You put it on an area and then after its cast time it takes hold, but it gives people an opportunity to get away from the root. With the short TTK we enjoy now Xul's is just going to be stupid. The definition of 'out of position' is going to be 'more than 2 seconds from your gate'.
There is no other point-and-click CC in the game.
It's like someone said "Hey, wouldn't zombie wall be better if you didn't have to actually, ya know, land the zombie wall? Oh, and if you couldn't just kill the zombies to get out of it? Sweet. I think we have a skill."
I mean, just look at their example in the video with Lunara. Her thing is that she moves fast/oddly so it helps her avoid getting hit. She has a low health pool so if she does get hit by a root it's a big deal. Well, I guess she's screwed now.
I think his ult is being underused. In such a "TTK" game it really should be a powerful setup.
We've just been trying to keep the foolhardy squishies in the game too long.
MMMig on
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Pro tip: counter that root like you're supposed to counter every CC. Cleanse. Which is still a dumb talent, but hey, it exists, might as well use it.
I think his ult is being underused. In such a "TTK" game it really should be a powerful setup.
We've just been trying to keep the foolhardy squishies in the game too long.
I think his ult is being underused. In such a "TTK" game it really should be a powerful setup.
We've just been trying to keep the foolhardy squishies in the game too long.
divine storm is aoe, not target.
Judgement is targeted, octo is targeted, webrap, ruthless onslaught, maybe some other stuff
Which is basically what this is like and why I think it won't be OP. Uther's stun is brutal, yes, but it's not OP. This is just like the stun except 2 seconds instead of 1 and possibly more range. In return, it's only a root, not a stun, and has a long leadup.
It'll be nasty, just like alot of other roots and stuns in the game, but I'm not sure it'll be OP.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
It'll finally be a reason to take the level four whirlwind talent on Sonya, at least.
yeah it seems like there's no way out of it unless you have specific invincibility/unstopppable/stasis abilities like Jo, murky, or anyone with ice block.
Also kinda weird that he's the first hero that has 4 basic abilities untalented?
His Bone Armor is more or less a D ability, just placed on 1 instead. Well, except that he also has a separate Trait as well anyway.
And yeah, Bone Prison is gonna be nuts. There is a 2 second delay, so you have some time to react to it, but you're still gonna get rooted either way.
I was theorycrafting an Arthas/Xul combo. Imagine how nuts that'd be? Permaslow from Arthas's E, use Howling Blast to lead into Bone Prison. Murder squad.
I think his ult is being underused. In such a "TTK" game it really should be a powerful setup.
We've just been trying to keep the foolhardy squishies in the game too long.
divine storm is aoe, not target.
Judgement is targeted, octo is targeted, webrap, ruthless onslaught, maybe some other stuff
Most of those are ults too, making them pretty valuable rather than just on a short cool down.
Yeah it'll depend on the cast range. They don't really show how far it is. Muradin getting hit with it at 3:57 in the video makes it look long range but it's possible he cast it, stood there, then chased.
I've played both with and against Aba mines. Especially as a stealther, the slowing mines are incredibly annoying. But at the same time I never felt like they were a problem. And yeah, BHB is the only place I go mines build. Otherwise the mines just don't feel impactful enough. Sure, you do some damage and dismount someone going from A to B but that damage rarely adds up to anything meaningful because they can just get topped off.
Also, Aba's average winrate is a meaningless number. Those who play him well have a high winrate and those who play average or worse have a terrible winrate.
It's effective on alot of maps imo. More then his other builds most of the time. It's really great at stopping rotations and delaying the enemy's arrival at objectives. Towers of Doom is a great map for it for instance.
And the damage, especially in QM where teams can be squishier and supports aren't guaranteed, can be meaningful. Smack a Li-Ming or a Valla or something with a few mines on the way to a teamfight and she'll play alot more cautiously and/or be alot easier to kill.
+1
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
It's effective on alot of maps imo. More then his other builds most of the time. It's really great at stopping rotations and delaying the enemy's arrival at objectives. Towers of Doom is a great map for it for instance.
And the damage, especially in QM where teams can be squishier and supports aren't guaranteed, can be meaningful. Smack a Li-Ming or a Valla or something with a few mines on the way to a teamfight and she'll play alot more cautiously and/or be alot easier to kill.
Sure, but the chances are that the tanks will run all over the combat area and clear the mines before the squishies hit them. Their maximum impact on squishies is hidden in bushes.
On towers of doom though you should go hat build. It's extremely effective in those close quarters.
It's effective on alot of maps imo. More then his other builds most of the time. It's really great at stopping rotations and delaying the enemy's arrival at objectives. Towers of Doom is a great map for it for instance.
And the damage, especially in QM where teams can be squishier and supports aren't guaranteed, can be meaningful. Smack a Li-Ming or a Valla or something with a few mines on the way to a teamfight and she'll play alot more cautiously and/or be alot easier to kill.
Sure, but the chances are that the tanks will run all over the combat area and clear the mines before the squishies hit them. Their maximum impact on squishies is hidden in bushes.
On towers of doom though you should go hat build. It's extremely effective in those close quarters.
That is not my experience at all. Plus you don't lay them all over the objective, you lay them around all the routes to the objective. The idea is to delay and harass the enemy as they try to move around the map.
Optimal mine placement really just depends on the map. For example, on Spider queen, the vents aren't the best place. The best place are the narrow choke-points into the turn-in areas.
On Dragon Shire, optimal spots include the entrances to the Shrine areas, and the approach leading TO the dragon statue. Everyone expects mines ON the statue. So that's a bad spot to put them. But put them 2 steps out on the natural approach, and you'll really ruin someone's day.
On Cursed Hollow you want to put them on the chokepoints around the tributes and also in the narrow forest paths leading to mercenaries.
Each map has some great mines locations. And very rarely are they in bushes unless the bushes just also happened to be on a well-traveled path.
With the decline in popularity of Nova and Zeratul, bush mines aren't as handy. Bush mines are good for catching and revealing lurkers, and we don't see many lurking characters these days.
Cooldown notification is going to be great. There have been so many times that I wanted to ping "Mosh Pit is not up for another 30 seconds what are you doing STAHP"
+6
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
Yeah, cooldown pings have been my #2 ask since the beta (behind death recap screens, which I believe are also in the works? we saw some WIP screenshots of it a few months ago at least), so excited to finally get those.
holy shit somehow i thought his E was a ground targeted ability, not just click on a hero
that's insane
Hence the delay. You know it's going to happen, and you have two seconds to decide where.
Ehhh, I have a feeling it won't quite work out like that. Yes, you can book it as soon as you see the visual indicator, but fact of the matter is you're still gonna get rooted. And yeah, maybe you'll be able to safely retreat behind your frontline and it'll all be good.
But it's also just as likely that the enemy frontline keeps you where they want you to be, and you eat that root.
I suppose there isn't much point in debating it until we see it in action and see the practical use of it. But I have a feeling it's going to be a lot more deadly that it lets on.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I think the slow on Bone Armor is probably gonna be pretty big for Xul. Lets you close so you actually have ToT for the duration of the root, instead of only catching up to them after the root pops.
Our team first picks Murky and Nova, no hesitation. They are grouped together, because of course they are.
Murky spends all game tunneling on pushing rather than helping in teamfights. Our Nova is playing super unsafe and has died 6 times in 10 minutes. Ends the game with 10 total deaths.
welp
This is exactly what I mean when I say 90% of my losses aren't my fault anymore. Ugh.
Dibby on
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
+1
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited February 2016
So am I the only one that thinks Murky is actually terrible at pushing? His main advantage is that getting ganked for pushing is a lot less punishing, which is obviously a good thing, but he's one of the slowest building destroyers in the game. Very quick at clearing waves because lolpufferfish, but slime not doing increased damage to buildings means it takes him three or four times the amount of time it takes an Azmo, Gazlowe, or any assassin with minion cover to kill a fort.
The Escape Goat on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
So am I the only one that thinks Murky is actually terrible at pushing? His main advantage is that getting ganked for pushing is a lot less punishing, which is obviously a good thing, but he's one of the slowest building destroyers in the game. Very quick at clearing waves because lolpufferfish, but slime not doing increased damage to buildings means it takes him three or four times the amount of time it takes an Azmo, Gazlowe, or any assassin with minion cover to kill a fort.
He's not nearly as good as he used to be. The scaling changes were not kind, and his HP regeneration, which was buffed shortly before that patch "to a good place", reverted to being so low as to be negligible. And, the addition of heroes like Li-Ming and Greymane have not been kind to him, either. The days where you could roam around as Ganky Murky are pretty much over and done with. The best he can do now is soak experience across lanes, but that's not really the same thing as pushing hard. And frankly, any hero can do that nowadays, and some arguably do it better. Octo-Grab is also a guaranteed death against any half-decent team, so you have to be a lot more careful about using it, as you're now trading a 3-second stun for 0.25 hero XP.
I saw a recent pro game where Murky was used, and it was exclusively a 4-1 comp, meaning the entire team was built around splitting without Murky and running around the map while avoiding literally any team fights or objectives unless they knew they had a numbers advantage. Even in that situation, most of the actual pushing was done by the 4-group, not by Murky himself. He basically just went everywhere they weren't to maintain the XP advantage.
The funny thing is, if March of the Murlocs wasn't nerfed to shit, it might actually be a viable ult right now, because it would make Murky an effective sieger again.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
edited February 2016
I'm still doing great as Ganky Murky, so iunno, ymmv. Trading .25 XP for a 3 second stun doesn't matter because that 3 second stun is guaranteed full XP in the burst meta. And Li-Ming seriously isn't an issue if you bubble properly--I think Shryke said Li-Ming has to bait bubble with q+w and then you laserdick for the kill after the bubble. Except that makes no sense because the instant Bubble ends you're octograbbed and dead.
Greymane is actually really annoying but it has way more to do with how sticky he is than anything else. Bubble doesn't get you away from him. (But can lure him into overextending into your team!)
So am I the only one that thinks Murky is actually terrible at pushing? His main advantage is that getting ganked for pushing is a lot less punishing, which is obviously a good thing, but he's one of the slowest building destroyers in the game. Very quick at clearing waves because lolpufferfish, but slime not doing increased damage to buildings means it takes him three or four times the amount of time it takes an Azmo, Gazlowe, or any assassin with minion cover to kill a fort.
He's not terrible but he's not great, mostly because he's been outshined by all the assassins with silly high damage vs structures. With some Living the Dream stacks his Pufferfish can do some nice damage to buildings that's hard to get rid of. His sieging is ok in bursts is what I'm saying but that kinda helps the main thing he does.
What he's good at is pushing and split-pushing. And split-pushing without really split-pushing.
Murky can blow through waves minion waves pretty well. And he's annoying and difficult to stop while doing it for most characters. You gotta be real fast to drop the fish in time on many heroes.
He's also difficult to stop because he keeps coming back. He can trade really well often in that he'll eventually force you to go back to heal while he keeps going or just kill you.
The other thing he can do is contribute to a fight and then, when he dies, immediately go back to pushing (effectively doing the objective and split-pushing) on the other side of the map or the like.
Essentially he's not the greatest sieger but his push can be annoying as fuck to deal with, especially on larger maps.
Still though, he took a hit from the scaling changes.
shryke on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
If you're able to play old-school Ganky Murky where you could easily 1v1 with all but a handful of other heroes, and compete for top spots in Solo Kills/Hero Damage, then that's pretty amazing. I used to be able to do that consistently, while easily doubling the Siege Damage of everyone else without even trying, too. This isn't to say that I was the best Murky player ever, but that's where he was before the scaling changes. I think I had something like a 60% win rate with him, easily. That number has since dropped to 55%-ish, and that's only because I stopped playing him regularly once I saw where he was at. When I do play him, now I can barely compete on Siege (and that's only if I focus on it) and will do roughly half (if that) the hero damage of the other Assassins/Specialists on the team. It's not even close. He's not nearly as much of a threat, and good players are able to burst him down in the new meta incredibly quickly once Bubble is used. Also, I've been saying that the Bubble cooldown and Bubble heal talents are basically mandatory since the scaling changes, and quickly got shouted down in this thread for it. =P
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I'm still not taking Rejuvenating Bubble because that's lame
I'm not particularly competitive in damage numbers, generally, but I mostly play Murky like I play most melee assassins: either roughing up someone badly and CCing them for my team to finish off, or leaping in to finish off stragglers our ranged DPS roughed up. Just sort of a utility get-in-their-face-to-mess-them-up style. If you can catch someone out late double slimy puffers into octo will kill them as normal.
Oh yeah, I've also stopped taking LtD because basically every engage is a guaranteed death, so that'll lower damage numbers. Been typically going for Bigger Slime for better chase/poke (at least it helps poke in lane), sometimes Envenom.
Murky can totally solokill Lunara tho, even without Envenom.
I'm still doing great as Ganky Murky, so iunno, ymmv. Trading .25 XP for a 3 second stun doesn't matter because that 3 second stun is guaranteed full XP in the burst meta. And Li-Ming seriously isn't an issue if you bubble properly--I think Shryke said Li-Ming has to bait bubble with q+w and then you laserdick for the kill after the bubble. Except that makes no sense because the instant Bubble ends you're octograbbed and dead.
Greymane is actually really annoying but it has way more to do with how sticky he is than anything else. Bubble doesn't get you away from him. (But can lure him into overextending into your team!)
Edit: Also Bubble Machine is 100% mandatory now.
Except Octo-grab is on cooldown or you wait it out and then port out of the puffer and blow murky up. He's not that threatening to Li-Ming. You've got a 3 to 6 level time from 10 to 13-16 when you have the most issues but with illusionist it's pretty easy to dodge the pop and with diamond skin it's just irrelevant. Dominance really helps in this respect too and you can basically negate alot or all of the damage you take in the encounter once you blow murky up.
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I'm still doing great as Ganky Murky, so iunno, ymmv. Trading .25 XP for a 3 second stun doesn't matter because that 3 second stun is guaranteed full XP in the burst meta. And Li-Ming seriously isn't an issue if you bubble properly--I think Shryke said Li-Ming has to bait bubble with q+w and then you laserdick for the kill after the bubble. Except that makes no sense because the instant Bubble ends you're octograbbed and dead.
Greymane is actually really annoying but it has way more to do with how sticky he is than anything else. Bubble doesn't get you away from him. (But can lure him into overextending into your team!)
Edit: Also Bubble Machine is 100% mandatory now.
Except Octo-grab is on cooldown or you wait it out and then port out of the puffer and blow murky up. He's not that threatening to Li-Ming. You've got a 3 to 6 level time from 10 to 13-16 when you have the most issues but with illusionist it's pretty easy to dodge the pop and with diamond skin it's just irrelevant. Dominance really helps in this respect too and you can basically negate alot or all of the damage you take in the encounter once you blow murky up.
I never rely on puffer damage in teamfights anymore (people I've been playing against lately are much better at killing it), I mean Li-Ming is stunned for 3 seconds so my team dives and kills her for free. You can't wait it out because people realize Li-Ming is dangerous enough that the pubs actually realize "hey we have a chance to kill her, let's kill her". But yeah, I'm not claiming you can solokill her, any character with mobility is hard to puffer combo because octo always ends slightly before puffer pops because of puffer's travel time. I'm just saying Murky is really really good at setting her up to be killed by his team.
Also Octo is on 50 second CD, it's up a lot.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
A coworker of mine has been talking to me for ages about starting up a YouTube channel. I told him I'd support whatever he wanted to do. Well, turns out he's been thinking about it, and what he wants to do is for the two of us to play Hots together. He told me he's interested in doing it with me because we have like, wildly different MMR (I hover around 3k, while he sits on about 2k) and he thinks it would be funny for us to play together. Which is probably true. Anyway, the plan is for us to make fresh accounts and then literally only play Random Select with the free weekly rotation of heroes. I'm glad he suggested the fresh account thing, because there's no way I'd do that shit on my main account, lol.
If anyone's interested in doing this with me / us, let me know. Or if you have any suggestions that you think might make the content more interesting, I'm all ears.
Its kind of his project, and I'm just along for the ride, but I'd still like to see it do well.
I hope they do remove the Abathur slow mines - not because I think they're overpowered, they're just frustrating to play against and make the game less fun for their inclusion. There isn't really any counterplay to them, you just have to suffer through little delays again and again as you get randomly dismounted all over the place.
Posts
Xul's root will make it so that if you don't run immediately upon sight of the enemy, you're dead. The 2 second cast time isn't just something that "lets people get away" (which it totally doesn't), but also an indication to your team "Get ready to kill this person and/or extend the root/stun in 2 seconds".
Malf's root isn't a guaranteed cast. You put it on an area and then after its cast time it takes hold, but it gives people an opportunity to get away from the root. With the short TTK we enjoy now Xul's is just going to be stupid. The definition of 'out of position' is going to be 'more than 2 seconds from your gate'.
There is no other point-and-click CC in the game.
It's like someone said "Hey, wouldn't zombie wall be better if you didn't have to actually, ya know, land the zombie wall? Oh, and if you couldn't just kill the zombies to get out of it? Sweet. I think we have a skill."
I mean, just look at their example in the video with Lunara. Her thing is that she moves fast/oddly so it helps her avoid getting hit. She has a low health pool so if she does get hit by a root it's a big deal. Well, I guess she's screwed now.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Small correction: Uther's stun and ult. ^^'
I think his ult is being underused. In such a "TTK" game it really should be a powerful setup.
We've just been trying to keep the foolhardy squishies in the game too long.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
They are killable too, it seems.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Also Octograb.
I hope he's really OP so "maintaining the balance" is super ironic.
divine storm is aoe, not target.
Judgement is targeted, octo is targeted, webrap, ruthless onslaught, maybe some other stuff
Which is basically what this is like and why I think it won't be OP. Uther's stun is brutal, yes, but it's not OP. This is just like the stun except 2 seconds instead of 1 and possibly more range. In return, it's only a root, not a stun, and has a long leadup.
It'll be nasty, just like alot of other roots and stuns in the game, but I'm not sure it'll be OP.
His ult isn't a point and click - you need to be hit with it in melee range. But yeah hammer is point. Forgot about that.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
Bone Prison / Purifier Beam
Most of those are ults too, making them pretty valuable rather than just on a short cool down.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
It's effective on alot of maps imo. More then his other builds most of the time. It's really great at stopping rotations and delaying the enemy's arrival at objectives. Towers of Doom is a great map for it for instance.
And the damage, especially in QM where teams can be squishier and supports aren't guaranteed, can be meaningful. Smack a Li-Ming or a Valla or something with a few mines on the way to a teamfight and she'll play alot more cautiously and/or be alot easier to kill.
Sure, but the chances are that the tanks will run all over the combat area and clear the mines before the squishies hit them. Their maximum impact on squishies is hidden in bushes.
On towers of doom though you should go hat build. It's extremely effective in those close quarters.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
That is not my experience at all. Plus you don't lay them all over the objective, you lay them around all the routes to the objective. The idea is to delay and harass the enemy as they try to move around the map.
Switch: 6589-6405-3399
On Dragon Shire, optimal spots include the entrances to the Shrine areas, and the approach leading TO the dragon statue. Everyone expects mines ON the statue. So that's a bad spot to put them. But put them 2 steps out on the natural approach, and you'll really ruin someone's day.
On Cursed Hollow you want to put them on the chokepoints around the tributes and also in the narrow forest paths leading to mercenaries.
Each map has some great mines locations. And very rarely are they in bushes unless the bushes just also happened to be on a well-traveled path.
With the decline in popularity of Nova and Zeratul, bush mines aren't as handy. Bush mines are good for catching and revealing lurkers, and we don't see many lurking characters these days.
Hence the delay. You know it's going to happen, and you have two seconds to decide where.
Steam: TimIsOnSteam
Battle.net: TimIsOnBnet#1745
Switch: SW-7012-4788-7410
PSN: TimIsOnTheNet
Ehhh, I have a feeling it won't quite work out like that. Yes, you can book it as soon as you see the visual indicator, but fact of the matter is you're still gonna get rooted. And yeah, maybe you'll be able to safely retreat behind your frontline and it'll all be good.
But it's also just as likely that the enemy frontline keeps you where they want you to be, and you eat that root.
I suppose there isn't much point in debating it until we see it in action and see the practical use of it. But I have a feeling it's going to be a lot more deadly that it lets on.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Our team first picks Murky and Nova, no hesitation. They are grouped together, because of course they are.
Murky spends all game tunneling on pushing rather than helping in teamfights. Our Nova is playing super unsafe and has died 6 times in 10 minutes. Ends the game with 10 total deaths.
welp
This is exactly what I mean when I say 90% of my losses aren't my fault anymore. Ugh.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
He's not nearly as good as he used to be. The scaling changes were not kind, and his HP regeneration, which was buffed shortly before that patch "to a good place", reverted to being so low as to be negligible. And, the addition of heroes like Li-Ming and Greymane have not been kind to him, either. The days where you could roam around as Ganky Murky are pretty much over and done with. The best he can do now is soak experience across lanes, but that's not really the same thing as pushing hard. And frankly, any hero can do that nowadays, and some arguably do it better. Octo-Grab is also a guaranteed death against any half-decent team, so you have to be a lot more careful about using it, as you're now trading a 3-second stun for 0.25 hero XP.
I saw a recent pro game where Murky was used, and it was exclusively a 4-1 comp, meaning the entire team was built around splitting without Murky and running around the map while avoiding literally any team fights or objectives unless they knew they had a numbers advantage. Even in that situation, most of the actual pushing was done by the 4-group, not by Murky himself. He basically just went everywhere they weren't to maintain the XP advantage.
The funny thing is, if March of the Murlocs wasn't nerfed to shit, it might actually be a viable ult right now, because it would make Murky an effective sieger again.
Greymane is actually really annoying but it has way more to do with how sticky he is than anything else. Bubble doesn't get you away from him. (But can lure him into overextending into your team!)
Edit: Also Bubble Machine is 100% mandatory now.
He's not terrible but he's not great, mostly because he's been outshined by all the assassins with silly high damage vs structures. With some Living the Dream stacks his Pufferfish can do some nice damage to buildings that's hard to get rid of. His sieging is ok in bursts is what I'm saying but that kinda helps the main thing he does.
What he's good at is pushing and split-pushing. And split-pushing without really split-pushing.
Murky can blow through waves minion waves pretty well. And he's annoying and difficult to stop while doing it for most characters. You gotta be real fast to drop the fish in time on many heroes.
He's also difficult to stop because he keeps coming back. He can trade really well often in that he'll eventually force you to go back to heal while he keeps going or just kill you.
The other thing he can do is contribute to a fight and then, when he dies, immediately go back to pushing (effectively doing the objective and split-pushing) on the other side of the map or the like.
Essentially he's not the greatest sieger but his push can be annoying as fuck to deal with, especially on larger maps.
Still though, he took a hit from the scaling changes.
I'm not particularly competitive in damage numbers, generally, but I mostly play Murky like I play most melee assassins: either roughing up someone badly and CCing them for my team to finish off, or leaping in to finish off stragglers our ranged DPS roughed up. Just sort of a utility get-in-their-face-to-mess-them-up style. If you can catch someone out late double slimy puffers into octo will kill them as normal.
Oh yeah, I've also stopped taking LtD because basically every engage is a guaranteed death, so that'll lower damage numbers. Been typically going for Bigger Slime for better chase/poke (at least it helps poke in lane), sometimes Envenom.
Murky can totally solokill Lunara tho, even without Envenom.
Except Octo-grab is on cooldown or you wait it out and then port out of the puffer and blow murky up. He's not that threatening to Li-Ming. You've got a 3 to 6 level time from 10 to 13-16 when you have the most issues but with illusionist it's pretty easy to dodge the pop and with diamond skin it's just irrelevant. Dominance really helps in this respect too and you can basically negate alot or all of the damage you take in the encounter once you blow murky up.
I never rely on puffer damage in teamfights anymore (people I've been playing against lately are much better at killing it), I mean Li-Ming is stunned for 3 seconds so my team dives and kills her for free. You can't wait it out because people realize Li-Ming is dangerous enough that the pubs actually realize "hey we have a chance to kill her, let's kill her". But yeah, I'm not claiming you can solokill her, any character with mobility is hard to puffer combo because octo always ends slightly before puffer pops because of puffer's travel time. I'm just saying Murky is really really good at setting her up to be killed by his team.
Also Octo is on 50 second CD, it's up a lot.
Eh.,....
If I'm around solo and see a request in wang chat, though, I'll be sure to let you know!
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
If anyone's interested in doing this with me / us, let me know. Or if you have any suggestions that you think might make the content more interesting, I'm all ears.
Its kind of his project, and I'm just along for the ride, but I'd still like to see it do well.