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Penny Arcade - Comic - Early Onset Coot Disease

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    Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    NOTE: The views expressed here are those of Tycho and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views of an actual human being.

    After all, you either love the game, or it's just that you don't get it.

    I don't think that's quite fair, since Tycho is at least making the joking exaggeration that since he doesn't get it it's not even a game.

    That's real rich coming from someone who likes The Stanley Parable.

    XBL: Stealth Crane PSN: ajpet12 3DS: 1160-9999-5810 NNID: StealthCrane Pokemon Scarlet Name: Carmen
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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Andy Joe wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    NOTE: The views expressed here are those of Tycho and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views of an actual human being.

    After all, you either love the game, or it's just that you don't get it.

    I don't think that's quite fair, since Tycho is at least making the joking exaggeration that since he doesn't get it it's not even a game.

    That's real rich coming from someone who likes The Stanley Parable.

    Huh?

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    YggiDeeYggiDee The World Ends With You Shill Registered User regular
    I'll say this about The Stanley Parable- I played it exactly once, and I fumbled into what's apparently called 'the Confusion Ending'. I had to stop there because nothing I else I do in the game will ever top that.

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    LibrarianLibrarian The face of liberal fascism Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    It doesn't bother me that they didn't like it.
    Mike seems to enjoy games most if they have bright and sparkly shiny graphics and the guy reads Star Wars novels, it's not like I consider him a paragon of good taste.

    But to shit so aggressively on a game created by a lone indie developer, that is just mean, seriously
    If you asked me why I thought Undertale was stupid I’d just tell you it looked like shit and made no fucking sense. It is the videogame equivalent of the nonsense symbols crazy people draw on their walls with shit.

    Maybe he should try and replay one of their own bland and forgettable games, that was mediocre at best despite the help of a studio and his thesaurus happy friend.

    Librarian on
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    Andy JoeAndy Joe We claim the land for the highlord! The AdirondacksRegistered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Andy Joe wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    NOTE: The views expressed here are those of Tycho and do not necessarily represent or reflect the views of an actual human being.

    After all, you either love the game, or it's just that you don't get it.

    I don't think that's quite fair, since Tycho is at least making the joking exaggeration that since he doesn't get it it's not even a game.

    That's real rich coming from someone who likes The Stanley Parable.

    Huh?

    Jerry really likes The Stanley Parable, even though it is far less "video gamey" than Undertale.

    XBL: Stealth Crane PSN: ajpet12 3DS: 1160-9999-5810 NNID: StealthCrane Pokemon Scarlet Name: Carmen
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    Don't get why everyone feels the need to rag on Jerry and his use of big words, like that's ever been a criticism of merit.

    forumsig.png
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    ThroThro pgroome@penny-arcade.com Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    Don't get why everyone feels the need to rag on Jerry and his use of big words, like that's ever been a criticism of merit.

    It is when you intentionally use them to obfuscate your purposity of linguistic discourse, for naught a grander scheme than the enjoyment of one's own verbosity.

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    KisidanKisidan Registered User regular
    Librarian wrote: »
    Mike seems to enjoy games most if they have bright and sparkly shiny graphics and the guy reads Star Wars novels, it's not like I consider him a paragon of good taste.

    But to shit so aggressively on a game created by a lone indie developer, that is just mean, seriously.

    Yeah, because I'm sure it is on the verge of being a total financial failure and this criticism will do real and lasting dama--

    Oh wait.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    People have mentioned Jerry's Ebert rant a few times in this thread, and I went back to read it out of curiosity. I think what he wrote of Ebert applies to him in this scenario.
    That was very polite of her, behaving as though she were one side of a conversation. For what it’s worth. Which isn’t much, honestly, because this weren’t never a dialogue. He is not talking to you, he is just talking. And he’s arguing

    1. in bad faith,
    2. in an internally contradictory way,
    3. with nebulously defined terms,

    so there’s nothing here to discuss. You can if you want to, and people certainly do, but there’s no profit in it. Nobody’s going to hold their blade aloft at the end of this thing and found a kingdom. It’s just something to fill the hours.

    Also, do we win something if we defeat him? Does he drop a good helm? Because I can’t for the life of me figure out why we give a shit what that creature says. He doesn’t operate under some divine shroud that lets him determine what is or is not valid culture. He cannot rob you, retroactively, of wholly valid experiences; he cannot transform them into worthless things.

    He’s simply a man determined to be on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of the human drive to create, and dreadfully so; a monument to the same generational bullshit that says because something has not been, it must not and could never be.

    The comic attached to this rant is also marvelously prescient, particularly the first panel:

    842982636_LwDfj-1050x10000.jpg

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    The two aren't really related, and Jerry at no point claimed to be starting a dialogue. He said his opinion on Undertale. He's allowed to that. It is, in fact, his site. At a certain point you just have to accept that he doesn't like the game you like. It doesn't matter that he doesn't. It's not a big deal. Move on, do other things.

    He also never said it wasn't art. The character of Tycho in the context of a joke about how befuddled he is said he didn't recognise it as a game. Then he said he didn't enjoy it, for various perfectly valid reasons that I personally don't agree with. Maybe climb down out of his ass? We rarely have a comic that you don't find a reason to attack Jerry about. I'm not censuring you, but you should consider whether you want to continue
    A. Giving someone you clearly dislike your patronage
    B. Allowing someone you clearly dislike to bankroll part (maybe even a large part) of your social life.

    Sorry if this sounds mean, that is not my intention. I'm just befuddled by your insistence in carrying on this crusade. It must take a lot of time and energy! Maybe you should consider not doing it!

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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    We can talk about it in PMs and I promise to be as nice as possible.

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    metroidkillahmetroidkillah Local Bunman Free Country, USARegistered User regular
    edited January 2016
    @Kisidian For starters, Jerry and Mike are, in fact, influential to those who pay them any mind. That's how it works. But that's not the point.

    It's not about how much damage Mike may or may not do with his aggressive wording, it's about him just being a dick for no particular reason. This isn't the Jimquisition. He's not talking about shitty industry practices and skewering those that have earned it. No, he's talking about someone's *very* well-received work wrought from passion and talent as though it was yet another quasi-scam project shat out on Steam Greenlight. It's distasteful and off-putting, at the very least. Between this and his comments about Shark Fin Soup, I'm actually losing respect for his opinion.

    And yes, I understand that's insignificant and unimportant in the long run.

    metroidkillah on
    I'm not a nice guy, I just play one in real life.
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    LibrarianLibrarian The face of liberal fascism Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Kisidan wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    Mike seems to enjoy games most if they have bright and sparkly shiny graphics and the guy reads Star Wars novels, it's not like I consider him a paragon of good taste.

    But to shit so aggressively on a game created by a lone indie developer, that is just mean, seriously.

    Yeah, because I'm sure it is on the verge of being a total financial failure and this criticism will do real and lasting dama--

    Oh wait.

    I am not talking about financial impact, just saying you don't need to shit on the little guy just because you didn't enjoy something, you can just shut up about it. As someone established in the field that's just not the nice thing to do, imagine the same happening in any other realm of entertainment and how that would look.

    EDIT: wrote this before I read Tubes post, I don't really need to go on about this, just said everything on the topic I wanted to say.

    Librarian on
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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I don't dislike Jerry. I just disagree with him a lot. I read his comic and think it's good. I obviously agree with at least some of his rants. I think it's OK for me to disagree with him and also respect him. However, I have actually vowed personally not to state any more opinions about Mike and Jerry on this forum because I've realized it annoys you, Tube. I'll try to keep to that from here on out.

    I will say that, as with a lot of games, the hubbub made me curious to play the game, and I wouldn't have played it otherwise. So that's a cool result of what I think is a poor opinion.

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    People have mentioned Jerry's Ebert rant a few times in this thread, and I went back to read it out of curiosity. I think what he wrote of Ebert applies to him in this scenario.
    That was very polite of her, behaving as though she were one side of a conversation. For what it’s worth. Which isn’t much, honestly, because this weren’t never a dialogue. He is not talking to you, he is just talking. And he’s arguing

    1. in bad faith,
    2. in an internally contradictory way,
    3. with nebulously defined terms,

    so there’s nothing here to discuss. You can if you want to, and people certainly do, but there’s no profit in it. Nobody’s going to hold their blade aloft at the end of this thing and found a kingdom. It’s just something to fill the hours.

    Also, do we win something if we defeat him? Does he drop a good helm? Because I can’t for the life of me figure out why we give a shit what that creature says. He doesn’t operate under some divine shroud that lets him determine what is or is not valid culture. He cannot rob you, retroactively, of wholly valid experiences; he cannot transform them into worthless things.

    He’s simply a man determined to be on the wrong side of history, the wrong side of the human drive to create, and dreadfully so; a monument to the same generational bullshit that says because something has not been, it must not and could never be.

    The comic attached to this rant is also marvelously prescient, particularly the first panel:

    842982636_LwDfj-1050x10000.jpg
    It feels to me like there is maybe a slight difference between one old man saying "games aren't/can't be art!" and another old man saying "I don't like this game and here are some reasons I think it is bad."

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Edit: Nevermind, I found it.

    forty on
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    BursarBursar Hee Noooo! PDX areaRegistered User regular
    Let's unpack this "I don't recognize it as a game" statement in the comic.

    Tycho the character is confused and angry at himself. The part of his mind that identifies "gaminess" simply isn't firing when looking at Undertale. That doesn't mean he's saying that Undertale isn't a game, it's him saying that the patterns in his mind have become so entrenched that something that doesn't quite fit into them won't even register to him anymore. He's not mad at Undertale for having a rabid following, he's mad at himself for not getting it. And then he realizes how this relates to other things in his life.

    Imagine somebody from the 1930s hearing an electric guitar and not even perceiving it as music, just random noise at different pitches. Which, incidentally, is how I felt about electronic/dubstep for a while, so I guess I'm getting old, too.

    GNU Terry Pratchett
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    DissentDissent Mr. Fancy Pants Flavour CountryRegistered User regular
    842982636_LwDfj-1050x10000.jpg
    Not normally a grammar stickler, but the first comma in the last panel irritates me; I want to do bad things to it until it begs for nonexistence.

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    DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    Thro wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Don't get why everyone feels the need to rag on Jerry and his use of big words, like that's ever been a criticism of merit.

    It is when you intentionally use them to obfuscate your purposity of linguistic discourse, for naught a grander scheme than the enjoyment of one's own verbosity.

    I still fail to see how that's a problem.

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    NamrokNamrok Registered User regular
    Librarian wrote: »
    Kisidan wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    Mike seems to enjoy games most if they have bright and sparkly shiny graphics and the guy reads Star Wars novels, it's not like I consider him a paragon of good taste.

    But to shit so aggressively on a game created by a lone indie developer, that is just mean, seriously.

    Yeah, because I'm sure it is on the verge of being a total financial failure and this criticism will do real and lasting dama--

    Oh wait.

    I am not talking about financial impact, just saying you don't need to shit on the little guy just because you didn't enjoy something, you can just shut up about it. As someone established in the field that's just not the nice thing to do, imagine the same happening in any other realm of entertainment and how that would look.

    EDIT: wrote this before I read Tubes post, I don't really need to go on about this, just said everything on the topic I wanted to say.

    Two points. Point one: What precisely constitutes "taking a shit on something"? Is it the big words? The tongue in cheek hyperbole? Is the failure to communicate between your side and my side that you read Tycho's every word literally?

    Point two: Taking your argument at face value to its logical conclusion, nobody should publicly state a contrary opinion to the popular consensus. Somehow disagreeing with the majority counts as "punching down".

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Namrok wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    Kisidan wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    Mike seems to enjoy games most if they have bright and sparkly shiny graphics and the guy reads Star Wars novels, it's not like I consider him a paragon of good taste.

    But to shit so aggressively on a game created by a lone indie developer, that is just mean, seriously.

    Yeah, because I'm sure it is on the verge of being a total financial failure and this criticism will do real and lasting dama--

    Oh wait.

    I am not talking about financial impact, just saying you don't need to shit on the little guy just because you didn't enjoy something, you can just shut up about it. As someone established in the field that's just not the nice thing to do, imagine the same happening in any other realm of entertainment and how that would look.

    EDIT: wrote this before I read Tubes post, I don't really need to go on about this, just said everything on the topic I wanted to say.

    Two points. Point one: What precisely constitutes "taking a shit on something"? Is it the big words? The tongue in cheek hyperbole? Is the failure to communicate between your side and my side that you read Tycho's every word literally?

    Point two: Taking your argument at face value to its logical conclusion, nobody should publicly state a contrary opinion to the popular consensus. Somehow disagreeing with the majority counts as "punching down".

    Librarian was talking about what Mike said, not Jerry.

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    GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    I don't dislike Jerry. I just disagree with him a lot. I read his comic and think it's good. I obviously agree with at least some of his rants. I think it's OK for me to disagree with him and also respect him. However, I have actually vowed personally not to state any more opinions about Mike and Jerry on this forum because I've realized it annoys you, Tube. I'll try to keep to that from here on out.

    I will say that, as with a lot of games, the hubbub made me curious to play the game, and I wouldn't have played it otherwise. So that's a cool result of what I think is a poor opinion.

    @Cambiata

    I normally agree with 90% of your posts, but this is a "you're making a mountain out of a molehill" case

    My sincere impression of Jerry's post on Undertale is this:

    91sn32Q.jpg

    And that's perfectly fine! This isn't a dickwolves situation, where tone deafness was the rule of the day; it's more of a MGS 3-like situation, at least for me - they really didn't like something that I really enjoyed!

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    DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Namrok wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    Kisidan wrote: »
    Librarian wrote: »
    Mike seems to enjoy games most if they have bright and sparkly shiny graphics and the guy reads Star Wars novels, it's not like I consider him a paragon of good taste.

    But to shit so aggressively on a game created by a lone indie developer, that is just mean, seriously.

    Yeah, because I'm sure it is on the verge of being a total financial failure and this criticism will do real and lasting dama--

    Oh wait.

    I am not talking about financial impact, just saying you don't need to shit on the little guy just because you didn't enjoy something, you can just shut up about it. As someone established in the field that's just not the nice thing to do, imagine the same happening in any other realm of entertainment and how that would look.

    EDIT: wrote this before I read Tubes post, I don't really need to go on about this, just said everything on the topic I wanted to say.

    Two points. Point one: What precisely constitutes "taking a shit on something"? Is it the big words? The tongue in cheek hyperbole? Is the failure to communicate between your side and my side that you read Tycho's every word literally?

    Point two: Taking your argument at face value to its logical conclusion, nobody should publicly state a contrary opinion to the popular consensus. Somehow disagreeing with the majority counts as "punching down".

    Librarian was talking about what Mike said, not Jerry.

    Yeah.

    Jerry said he doesn't like it and doesn't get why other people do, which is a perfectly fine opinion to have. Lord knows there's been plenty of times I've not gotten what other people see in games!

    Mike said it was worthless stupidity and equated it to mentally ill people writing random symbols in bathroom walls with excrements, which is simply being a dick. Like, I don't even see how that could be not being a dick.

    Steam ID: Right here.
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    Thro wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Don't get why everyone feels the need to rag on Jerry and his use of big words, like that's ever been a criticism of merit.

    It is when you intentionally use them to obfuscate your purposity of linguistic discourse, for naught a grander scheme than the enjoyment of one's own verbosity.

    Some people just enjoy using alternative words for no other reason than the act itself. Jerry's clearly, clearly, someone who loves words, loves language. Like, that's a significant part of the character he presents. He's not doing it to make himself feel big, or clever, or superior. He just enjoys words and their use. Hell, where he enjoys changing the names of things, calling Mike 'Mork' or 'Morak' or any other such variant, I do that sort of thing too! Some people just enjoy playing with language. And some people seem to think that's a trait worthy enough to deride, which I guess helps them feel big and tough.

    forumsig.png
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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    Thro wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Don't get why everyone feels the need to rag on Jerry and his use of big words, like that's ever been a criticism of merit.

    It is when you intentionally use them to obfuscate your purposity of linguistic discourse, for naught a grander scheme than the enjoyment of one's own verbosity.

    Some people just enjoy using alternative words for no other reason than the act itself. Jerry's clearly, clearly, someone who loves words, loves language. Like, that's a significant part of the character he presents. He's not doing it to make himself feel big, or clever, or superior. He just enjoys words and their use. Hell, where he enjoys changing the names of things, calling Mike 'Mork' or 'Morak' or any other such variant, I do that sort of thing too! Some people just enjoy playing with language. And some people seem to think that's a trait worthy enough to deride, which I guess helps them feel big and tough.

    Jerry is a guy who was elated to receive a large metal ampersand as a Christmas present. Dude fucking loves language.

    steam_sig.png
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    darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    Thro wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Don't get why everyone feels the need to rag on Jerry and his use of big words, like that's ever been a criticism of merit.

    It is when you intentionally use them to obfuscate your purposity of linguistic discourse, for naught a grander scheme than the enjoyment of one's own verbosity.

    Some people just enjoy using alternative words for no other reason than the act itself. Jerry's clearly, clearly, someone who loves words, loves language. Like, that's a significant part of the character he presents. He's not doing it to make himself feel big, or clever, or superior. He just enjoys words and their use. Hell, where he enjoys changing the names of things, calling Mike 'Mork' or 'Morak' or any other such variant, I do that sort of thing too! Some people just enjoy playing with language. And some people seem to think that's a trait worthy enough to deride, which I guess helps them feel big and tough.

    Jerry is a guy who was elated to receive a large metal ampersand as a Christmas present. Dude fucking loves language.

    That's nearly an example I brought up, yeah. That wasn't an ironic present. That was a legit gift from the heart for a guy who loves words.

    forumsig.png
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    ThroThro pgroome@penny-arcade.com Registered User regular
    darleysam wrote: »
    Thro wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    Don't get why everyone feels the need to rag on Jerry and his use of big words, like that's ever been a criticism of merit.

    It is when you intentionally use them to obfuscate your purposity of linguistic discourse, for naught a grander scheme than the enjoyment of one's own verbosity.

    Some people just enjoy using alternative words for no other reason than the act itself. Jerry's clearly, clearly, someone who loves words, loves language. Like, that's a significant part of the character he presents. He's not doing it to make himself feel big, or clever, or superior. He just enjoys words and their use. Hell, where he enjoys changing the names of things, calling Mike 'Mork' or 'Morak' or any other such variant, I do that sort of thing too! Some people just enjoy playing with language. And some people seem to think that's a trait worthy enough to deride, which I guess helps them feel big and tough.

    Oh, I don't mean he's being disingenuous about his language. I agree completely that he clearly enjoys it (and I didn't know about the ampersand present, that's an adorable example).
    I just personally don't care for his current writing style. He uses more complicated language because he likes it, but this gets in the way of presenting his thought with better clarity.
    I think there is a better balance to be found, and lately he's been skewing more towards unnecessary imagery and complication for complication's sake.

    It's like when Mike switches up the art style, and people complain while he tweaks it or they get used to it. Except with words instead of that mullet thing Gabe had for a bit.

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    NamrokNamrok Registered User regular
    On a side note, as promised, I am now watching a genocide playthrough. So watch this thread whenever I finish that, and I'll eat crow about my assessment of the game's weaknesses if I find myself to have been wrong.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Namrok wrote: »
    On a side note, as promised, I am now watching a genocide playthrough. So watch this thread whenever I finish that, and I'll eat crow about my assessment of the game's weaknesses if I find myself to have been wrong.

    I watched it recently myself and enjoyed the experience. This is one of those rare games that provides a completely different experience if you take the opposite path.

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    NamrokNamrok Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Namrok wrote: »
    On a side note, as promised, I am now watching a genocide playthrough. So watch this thread whenever I finish that, and I'll eat crow about my assessment of the game's weaknesses if I find myself to have been wrong.

    I watched it recently myself and enjoyed the experience. This is one of those rare games that provides a completely different experience if you take the opposite path.

    The weird thing about Undertale, is that I have absolutely zero desire to play it. Watching the genocide playthrough may change my opinions about the weakness of the story and world that I previously stated. And it's certainly fun to watch, or at least, it's fun to watch Ross and Barry make voices playing it.

    But the entire exercise of playing it is just way too meta for me. Especially for as long as that game is. It actually reminds me, in a good way, of "Don't Shit Your Pants". Yes, that's a real game by the same people who did Rogue Legacy. It was also an incredibly meta game, very self aware of the fact that it's a game, that required iterating through it multiple times to get the full experience. And I don't mind something playful like that with a short game. I enjoyed The Stanley Parable for that same reason. You blast through an iteration of it in what, 10 minutes? 20 minutes?

    But Undertale fails for me because it's a longer meta experience. The turnaround on iterating through it, trying different things, and getting the full experience is much longer. It's also complicated enough to almost require advanced spoiling. And this is probably where my own old man tendencies show. I'm not a fan of games that virtually require a community wiki efforts to solve.

    I realize as I say this, that these things aren't radically different from games with good endings and bad endings and in between endings, or games with strategy guides. And maybe after watching a genocide playthrough, I'll be able to better articulate my points. The closest I can come right now is that it feels like the difference between expansion packs and DLC. Superficially, they should be the same. But something sinister is ineffably different about their nature.

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    CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Namrok wrote: »
    The weird thing about Undertale, is that I have absolutely zero desire to play it.

    Nah, there's nothing weird about that. I personally don't have a lot of interest in bullet hell games, but any game that draws me in via story will generally get me to commit to the play style.

    As someone who played it mostly blind, I can assure you no Wiki was needed, though. The puzzles are very doable, and the separate paths become obvious once you play it "normally" the first time.

    Peace to fashion police, I wear my heart
    On my sleeve, let the runway start
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    AndyBatesAndyBates Registered User new member
    edited January 2016
    Namrok wrote: »
    The weird thing about Undertale, is that I have absolutely zero desire to play it. Watching the genocide playthrough may change my opinions about the weakness of the story and world that I previously stated. And it's certainly fun to watch, or at least, it's fun to watch Ross and Barry make voices playing it.

    Saying "I have no desire to play this game after watching a playthrough" is like saying "I have no desire to see that movie after reading a plot synopsis." Playing a game is very different from watching it, just like watching a movie is very different from reading a description of it. I'm not sure why you would ruin the experience for yourself that way. It would be like going, "I don't get what the big deal is. So Darth Vader is Luke's father? That just seems like a soap opera. I have no desire to see this movie."

    AndyBates on
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    DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    It depends on the person and the medium. For some people, it is highly important that they get an unspoiled experience - for them the "freshness" of not having experienced the game is the core which defines it. For me, it depends on the medium, mechanics and story. If I watch a lets play for an Adventure game till the end I most likely won't play the game. Linear Adventure games are like an interactive movie for me, once I have seen the story play out - that's it for me. The contrary would be an action game or a game which includes more player decisions - I could watch a lets play and still want to experience it on my own.

    Dratatoo on
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    dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    AndyBates wrote: »
    Namrok wrote: »
    The weird thing about Undertale, is that I have absolutely zero desire to play it. Watching the genocide playthrough may change my opinions about the weakness of the story and world that I previously stated. And it's certainly fun to watch, or at least, it's fun to watch Ross and Barry make voices playing it.

    Saying "I have no desire to play this game after watching a playthrough" is like saying "I have no desire to see that movie after reading a plot synopsis." Playing a game is very different from watching it, just like watching a movie is very different from reading a description of it. I'm not sure why you would ruin the experience for yourself that way. It would be like going, "I don't get what the big deal is. So Darth Vader is Luke's father? That just seems like a soap opera. I have no desire to see this movie."

    Think you're misreading, here. He had no desire to play it. End of sentence. Then he said he watched a playthrough. I have watched (at least bits of) playthroughs of games that I didn't actually want to spend the time playing. He never said "after watching a playthrough, I had no desire to play it", as you are basing your post on.

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    NamrokNamrok Registered User regular
    dennis wrote: »
    AndyBates wrote: »
    Namrok wrote: »
    The weird thing about Undertale, is that I have absolutely zero desire to play it. Watching the genocide playthrough may change my opinions about the weakness of the story and world that I previously stated. And it's certainly fun to watch, or at least, it's fun to watch Ross and Barry make voices playing it.

    Saying "I have no desire to play this game after watching a playthrough" is like saying "I have no desire to see that movie after reading a plot synopsis." Playing a game is very different from watching it, just like watching a movie is very different from reading a description of it. I'm not sure why you would ruin the experience for yourself that way. It would be like going, "I don't get what the big deal is. So Darth Vader is Luke's father? That just seems like a soap opera. I have no desire to see this movie."

    Think you're misreading, here. He had no desire to play it. End of sentence. Then he said he watched a playthrough. I have watched (at least bits of) playthroughs of games that I didn't actually want to spend the time playing. He never said "after watching a playthrough, I had no desire to play it", as you are basing your post on.

    Just in the interest of clarity, I no longer remember if I had no interest in the game, then watch a lets play, or watched a lets play and lost all interest in the game.

    The closest I can remember is that I heard tons of buzz about the game, and people insisting I had to play it, but everything I saw left me nonplussed. So I watched a Lets Play to further indulge my curiosity, and was left with zero desire to actually play the game myself, but was having an awesome time watching it.

    I've watched other Lets Plays and been filled with the desire to actually play the game I'm seeing. The first time it happened I think was Legend of Grimrock. Seeing the first level of Grimrock played filled me with a desire to grab it myself. The same thing went for Warhammer 40K: Space Marine, Wolfenstein: The New Order, Ironcast, Orcs Must Die, Space Run and that's all I've got looking down my Steam list.

    Back in the day, because I'm old, I'd watch my friend who was an only child play dozens of games on his NES or PC, and occasionally they'd look so fun I'd want them myself. Like Megaman X, Doom and Mechwarrior 2. Others I was content to just watch, like Final Fantasy and Earthbound.

    For posterity, as I grew older I did want to play Earthbound and Final Fantasy for myself too. My friend has a year or two on me, so he was into more thoughtful games.

    I will admit, it's obvious to me now that if I ever had any intention of playing Undertale, I've probably ruined the experience for myself by watching complete Lets Plays. The majority of the gameplay is so gimmicky that once you've seen the gimmick, it's over. The joy is supposed to be discovering the gimmick for yourself, and revelling in how clever they are, and how clever you are for figuring it out. Not unlike a great puzzle game, like Talos Principle, The Witness or Portal.

    On that note, I've been watching a Lets Play of Portal 2 Coop, a part of the game I never finished, and even though watching it is giving away the puzzle solutions, I desperately want to play it too now. Quite unlike watching Undertale which is giving away all the fight solutions.

    Maybe there truly is no accounting for taste.

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Sitting next to your friend watching him/her play a video game: the original Let's Play.

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    RatherDashing89RatherDashing89 Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Sitting next to your friend watching him/her play a video game: the original Let's Play.

    Now from Youtube: Relive the childhood experience of going to visit your wealthier cousin and watching him play all his games over his shoulder! Except now you get a chair!

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    dennisdennis aka bingley Registered User regular
    Namrok wrote: »
    I've watched other Lets Plays and been filled with the desire to actually play the game I'm seeing. The first time it happened I think was Legend of Grimrock. Seeing the first level of Grimrock played filled me with a desire to grab it myself. The same thing went for Warhammer 40K: Space Marine, Wolfenstein: The New Order, Ironcast, Orcs Must Die, Space Run and that's all I've got looking down my Steam list.

    Same here, including some off of First 15: Massive Chalice, Mini Metro and Counterspy, to be exact. Okay, not that last one because it's not out on PC yet but I really really want it when it does come out. I've also watched some Cool Ghosts videos and stopped because after a minute or two it was obvious to me that I wanted to play the game.

    But then there's been others where I think "this is a really cool looking game, but there's no way I'm going to have the time/money to play it so I'm just going to enjoy a bit of it in video form".

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    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    On a somewhat related note, I'll admit that I've never played a classic (Sierra/Lucasarts) adventure game without a walkthrough. While there can sometimes be additional entertainment found in the death sequences (for those games that have them), item descriptions, and attempts to use items "incorrectly", I'm generally more interested in the story and/or multimedia experience than the puzzle-solving aspect. As such, watching a video gives me as much enjoyment as playing the game myself (by a script) would.

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    ArmoredchocoboArmoredchocobo Avian LP extraordinaire Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Sitting next to your friend watching him/her play a video game: the original Let's Play.

    Now from Youtube: Relive the childhood experience of going to visit your wealthier cousin and watching him play all his games over his shoulder! Except now you get a chair!

    The downside is that there's about a million people also in the cousin's house of infinite spaciousness, over half of them are only there because your cousin can make a funny face.

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