First time I've been genuinely stuck in the game... 360 solved puzzles in.
I've taken a screenshot of the panel that I'm suck on, with a bit of surrounding context... The one I'm stuck on is the unsolved towards the right.
My question...
For all the other puzzles in this area, even if the game adds a bit of noise, it's been relatively easy to pick out the tune they want you to play. However, with this one... I find myself totally unable to single out a tune which looks anything like the panel-- with three short notes and then a long one.
When looking at the panel, to the left there's a bird sound that does a long whistle (C#5) followed immediately by three short chirps (C#4, F#4, F#4). However, this looks nothing like the board, which lists three short notes followed by one long one.
There seems to be one (maybe two?) birds on the right that sound like a very hard to pin down warbling. Sometimes I think I can make out a longer whistle but I'm not sure. I'm not 100% sure that the same set of tunes are even playing the exact same way every time.
I guess my question is this -- I'm not missing something right? The solution to this puzzle involves doing the kind of thinking I'm doing above, right? You try to pick out the tune that the panel wants you to input, and then input it.
Yeah fuck it, just decided to cheat at that last tone puzzle.
It's kind of amazing that so far in the game, this is the first puzzle that feels poorly designed and just unfair. I must've listened to that damn puzzle two or three hundred times.
oh god no there are actually more of them fuuuuccckkkk
Yeah that section definitely feels horrible. The last one is a real doozy; I found that it helped to
"draw" out each one in the last set and then see which was the new one.
Actually the rest of the tonal puzzles were fine.
Its just that ONE puzzle that I could not hear. I even played back in super slow motion the sound over and over again, trying to pick out the one they were looking for. Still couldn't hear it.
Anyway, after cheating at that one stupid birdsong panel everything else has gone pretty great. I finished all the areas, and dove into what I think is the final area...
This game is great. Except for that one chirping panel. :P
Yeah fuck it, just decided to cheat at that last tone puzzle.
It's kind of amazing that so far in the game, this is the first puzzle that feels poorly designed and just unfair. I must've listened to that damn puzzle two or three hundred times.
The "correct" bird always sounded like 5 notes to me, so it never registered. I would hear it as low, medium, high, low, long higher.
I also got through the set afterward without any major issues, so I think there is definitely a problem with the design of that one panel.
Speaking of hints, does anyone have one for the two facing the beach from the mountain pillar? The ones that are flipped versions of each other.
The 2 are related, once you've found one, the other will be right there.
The pillar is pointing you in the right direction
Its not one of the puzzles where you can make out a general outline (and then spend a long time trying to find the exact spot to make it line up). You won't see it unless you're standing in the right spot, looking in the right direction.
Its a 3D game for a reason, don't be limited by just looking in front of you..
Puzzle towards the end of the game, in what I think is the final area.
This one pillar, holy shit.
I don't understand... Been sitting here working on it for at least an hour now. Crazy. I don't...
Well, huh. Well... Interesting.
There doesn't even feel like much to work out.
I don't even feel like I'm missing something. It's like, all the tools are here. I understand all the rules. But... But it just doesn't work.
Some observations:
* Why three starting points? That seems really strange. There's no reason for it. I thought that it might be a clue, but I certainly don't see how.
* Why is this a pillar puzzle at all? It seems like you could write this puzzle as a simple panel, given that the puzzle is broken horizontally. This suggests another clue -- that the nature of the puzzle as a pillar is helpful in some way, but it doesn't seem to be -- except beyond the fact that there are two exits, basically. I thought perhaps that the pillar was obfuscating something that would appear obvious when written down as a normal panel, but again that doesn't seem to be true.
Puzzle towards the end of the game, in what I think is the final area.
This one pillar, holy shit.
I don't understand... Been sitting here working on it for at least an hour now. Crazy. I don't...
Well, huh. Well... Interesting.
There doesn't even feel like much to work out.
I don't even feel like I'm missing something. It's like, all the tools are here. I understand all the rules. But... But it just doesn't work.
Some observations:
* Why three starting points? That seems really strange. There's no reason for it. I thought that it might be a clue, but I certainly don't see how.
* Why is this a pillar puzzle at all? It seems like you could write this puzzle as a simple panel, given that the puzzle is broken horizontally. This suggests another clue -- that the nature of the puzzle as a pillar is helpful in some way, but it doesn't seem to be -- except beyond the fact that there are two exits, basically. I thought perhaps that the pillar was obfuscating something that would appear obvious when written down as a normal panel, but again that doesn't seem to be true.
Unless I'm remember wrong...
I don't think there was anything special about that. It was just a very difficult one to solve (at least for me). I don't think it would work the same way as a standard flat panel puzzle, though. It may help to draw it out on paper. I don't recall exactly how I solved that one, but it might help
to work backwards (to an extent) to eliminate possible paths. Sometimes you can deduce that there's no way the line can come into a spot from a certain direction because it would make getting a dot or getting to the end impossible. Figuring out things like that sometimes helped me out.
Seems to be no reason for there being three starting points. Also, the fact that it's a pillar is indeed irrelevant. I think my last point was accurate -- the pillar basically was just obfuscation.
Seems to be no reason for there being three starting points. Also, the fact that it's a pillar is indeed irrelevant. I think my last point was accurate -- the pillar basically was just obfuscation.
I could swear that one wraps all the way around. I don't see how it would work if it weren't a pillar. The three starting points are just to make the puzzle more difficult. There are a few of those throughout the game, so it's not out of the ordinary to have a puzzle where you have to eliminate starting points.
Other games try to drive home feelings of accomplishment, but this one drives home feelings of understanding. There are few things more pleasurable than wiping away a cloud of confusion and seeing something clearly.
Some small things I didn't care for very much--
- Just like Braid, I did not dig the psuedo-philosophical bullshit sprinkled throughout. The videos were long and not interesting. Some of the clips were nice but mostly they were meh. I don't really get Jonathan Blow's affinity for putting in like a 2-3 line quote about philosophy or science or religion randomly throughout the game.
- It was really fun to see the environmental puzzle the first time. But after that... Eh, it seemed like hunting for easter eggs. Nothing wrong with it at all, but not really my cup of tea.
What exactly qualifies as "psuedo" philosophical, exactly?
By that I meant like... Good philosophy is meant to explain an argument or point of view clearly. Philosophy is not just saying disparate out of context philosophical sounding things. It's not like Nietzsche or Kant or whatever just wandered around like mystics saying random shit. They constructed their arguments carefully -- not unlike how the game teaches the player how to solve maze puzzles.
I think it's meant to be thought-provoking. He's not trying to tell you something, he's trying to get you to think.
If you think the quotes and videos peppered throughout the game don't have a theme or are all out of context with each other, well..I don't know what to say, because they seem to have a pretty common theme to me.
I sort of liked reading the weird storybooks in Braid. It was a nice bonus reward for moving forward in the game. But holy shit most of the audio logs and
videos
in this game just bore the shit out of me. Nothing against you if you like them, but they barely do anything for me.
Right, but I can't really concentrate on a puzzle and an audio log at the same time. If I'm fully concentrating on the game I'm going to miss out on the meaning of the log, for whatever it's worth.
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WACriminalDying Is Easy, Young ManLiving Is HarderRegistered Userregular
Some of the audio logs contain hints for puzzle mechanics. Either that or I'm just making connections that aren't there.
But yes, there is a definite theme to this game relating to the scientific method, the desire for understanding, and the value of spirituality or myth even in a scientific age.
So I finally pushed through and finished the game. Still not sure if I'm going to do the challenge area or not, I took a look at some of the puzzles in there before going to bed. It's scary in there.
In general, it's been a positive experience for me. It's a great puzzle game, I'd like more games to be like this one.
Yeah I think the musical chairs crap is beyond me, but overall I adored the game. A lot of moments of going "but that... can't... impossible?" followed by an equally large number of "oh, of COURSE." Which is a lovely feeling.
So I finally pushed through and finished the game. Still not sure if I'm going to do the challenge area or not, I took a look at some of the puzzles in there before going to bed. It's scary in there.
In general, it's been a positive experience for me. It's a great puzzle game, I'd like more games to be like this one.
Other than the record player bullshit, I found everything else down there perfectly solvable.
So I finally pushed through and finished the game. Still not sure if I'm going to do the challenge area or not, I took a look at some of the puzzles in there before going to bed. It's scary in there.
In general, it's been a positive experience for me. It's a great puzzle game, I'd like more games to be like this one.
Other than the record player bullshit, I found everything else down there perfectly solvable.
There were some tough ones, but nothing was really harder than the other most difficult panels in the game. The only thing I looked up is what the colors were on the funky color panel because I just find trying to figure that shit out completely tedious.
So I finally pushed through and finished the game. Still not sure if I'm going to do the challenge area or not, I took a look at some of the puzzles in there before going to bed. It's scary in there.
In general, it's been a positive experience for me. It's a great puzzle game, I'd like more games to be like this one.
Other than the record player bullshit, I found everything else down there perfectly solvable.
There were some tough ones, but nothing was really harder than the other most difficult panels in the game. The only thing I looked up is what the colors were on the funky color panel because I just find trying to figure that shit out completely tedious.
I was so damn happy with myself when I finally figured out the trick for that puzzle, after staring at it for probably over an hour. In retrospect it seems simple, but the logic completely eluded me.
Posts
First time I've been genuinely stuck in the game... 360 solved puzzles in.
I've taken a screenshot of the panel that I'm suck on, with a bit of surrounding context... The one I'm stuck on is the unsolved towards the right.
My question...
When looking at the panel, to the left there's a bird sound that does a long whistle (C#5) followed immediately by three short chirps (C#4, F#4, F#4). However, this looks nothing like the board, which lists three short notes followed by one long one.
There seems to be one (maybe two?) birds on the right that sound like a very hard to pin down warbling. Sometimes I think I can make out a longer whistle but I'm not sure. I'm not 100% sure that the same set of tunes are even playing the exact same way every time.
I guess my question is this -- I'm not missing something right? The solution to this puzzle involves doing the kind of thinking I'm doing above, right? You try to pick out the tune that the panel wants you to input, and then input it.
It's kind of amazing that so far in the game, this is the first puzzle that feels poorly designed and just unfair. I must've listened to that damn puzzle two or three hundred times.
EDIT: Do the multiple solutions for
Actually the rest of the tonal puzzles were fine.
Its just that ONE puzzle that I could not hear. I even played back in super slow motion the sound over and over again, trying to pick out the one they were looking for. Still couldn't hear it.
Anyway, after cheating at that one stupid birdsong panel everything else has gone pretty great. I finished all the areas, and dove into what I think is the final area...
This game is great. Except for that one chirping panel. :P
I also got through the set afterward without any major issues, so I think there is definitely a problem with the design of that one panel.
not the shadows, check the black pillar.
Speaking of hints, does anyone have one for the two facing the beach from the mountain pillar? The ones that are flipped versions of each other.
This is a general comment, may or may not apply to the ones you are specifically asking about.
The 2 are related, once you've found one, the other will be right there.
Puzzle towards the end of the game, in what I think is the final area.
This one pillar, holy shit.
I don't understand... Been sitting here working on it for at least an hour now. Crazy. I don't...
Well, huh. Well... Interesting.
There doesn't even feel like much to work out.
I don't even feel like I'm missing something. It's like, all the tools are here. I understand all the rules. But... But it just doesn't work.
Some observations:
* Why is this a pillar puzzle at all? It seems like you could write this puzzle as a simple panel, given that the puzzle is broken horizontally. This suggests another clue -- that the nature of the puzzle as a pillar is helpful in some way, but it doesn't seem to be -- except beyond the fact that there are two exits, basically. I thought perhaps that the pillar was obfuscating something that would appear obvious when written down as a normal panel, but again that doesn't seem to be true.
Fascinating.
Seems to be no reason for there being three starting points. Also, the fact that it's a pillar is indeed irrelevant. I think my last point was accurate -- the pillar basically was just obfuscation.
Other games try to drive home feelings of accomplishment, but this one drives home feelings of understanding. There are few things more pleasurable than wiping away a cloud of confusion and seeing something clearly.
Some small things I didn't care for very much--
- It was really fun to see the environmental puzzle the first time. But after that... Eh, it seemed like hunting for easter eggs. Nothing wrong with it at all, but not really my cup of tea.
By that I meant like... Good philosophy is meant to explain an argument or point of view clearly. Philosophy is not just saying disparate out of context philosophical sounding things. It's not like Nietzsche or Kant or whatever just wandered around like mystics saying random shit. They constructed their arguments carefully -- not unlike how the game teaches the player how to solve maze puzzles.
If you think the quotes and videos peppered throughout the game don't have a theme or are all out of context with each other, well..I don't know what to say, because they seem to have a pretty common theme to me.
But yes, there is a definite theme to this game relating to the scientific method, the desire for understanding, and the value of spirituality or myth even in a scientific age.
In general, it's been a positive experience for me. It's a great puzzle game, I'd like more games to be like this one.
Other than the record player bullshit, I found everything else down there perfectly solvable.
I was so damn happy with myself when I finally figured out the trick for that puzzle, after staring at it for probably over an hour. In retrospect it seems simple, but the logic completely eluded me.
Yeah, I'm done for the night, screw that.
Although, the music choices are excellent for that section.
I am not digging the castle.
I'll give it a shot next time I load the game up. Hadn't thought of that.