What? Your "ghetto" isn't getting changed at all. That's just goosey.
This is like saying that you can't use your cards in arena and so it kills your interest. Standard is a new mode that doesn't change or affect the old mode. You never have to leave casual. You never have to leave wild. You will still get the same rewards as people in standard.
Why do you care what other people play, re Streamers?
From the other side, I don't want new players to have to spend an ever increasing amount of money up front just to compete with people who have been playing for years. It was already getting to that point as it is, starting off now you have to grind a huge amount just to even have a chance at hanging in there in the ladder, and that's ignoring legendaries.
What? Your "ghetto" isn't getting changed at all. That's just goosey.
This is like saying that you can't use your cards in arena and so it kills your interest. Standard is a new mode that doesn't change or affect the old mode. You never have to leave casual. You never have to leave wild. You will still get the same rewards as people in standard.
Why do you care what other people play, re Streamers?
The "ghetto" may not be getting changed, but it's also going to be an afterthought. The assumption (and it seems like a reasonable one) is that Wild will degenerate into a shit show because Blizzard isn't going to be balancing with respect to Wild. That's basically the entire point of this new format. So they can free up the design space by not having to worry about how the new cards interact with an ever growing library of old cards. So you're going to see more and more broken interactions.
And you and I may not give a rat's ass about what the streamer play, but you're crazy if you don't think the community at large cares a great deal. It's why every time one of the streamers has some success with a new deck variant, the next day it's all over the place. What the streamers do has a sizable effect on the game. And if tournaments are going to be Standard, that's what the streamers are going to play, and most of the public will follow them there.
From the other side, I don't want new players to have to spend an ever increasing amount of money up front just to compete with people who have been playing for years. It was already getting to that point as it is, starting off now you have to grind a huge amount just to even have a chance at hanging in there in the ladder, and that's ignoring legendaries.
FAKE EDIT: I was going to write about my worries of P2W creep because, as a generally F2P player, with the current format at least it felt like I could see the light at the end of the tunnel as I've gotten more and more of the proven backbone cards. And now with the new format, that feeling of having to play catchup to the people who use money or just play an assload more than I do will basically never end. But the post started to ramble, and I started feeling like one of those assholes that screams about P2W at every minuscule change. And I don't want to be that guy.
I will say that intellectually, I completely understand that this new format will be much better in the long run for the health of the game. And if I had been playing as long as most of you, I'd probably be just as excited for this change. It just sucks that I pick probably the most inopportune time to start playing. I've only been playing since the beginning of October, so I've spent the past 4 months struggling to expand my collection, and now just as I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up if feels like they pull the rug out from under me.
From the other side, I don't want new players to have to spend an ever increasing amount of money up front just to compete with people who have been playing for years. It was already getting to that point as it is, starting off now you have to grind a huge amount just to even have a chance at hanging in there in the ladder, and that's ignoring legendaries.
FAKE EDIT: I was going to write about how my worries of P2W creep because, as a generally F2P player, with the current format at least there felt like I could see the light at the end of the tunnel as I'm gotten more and more of the proven backbone cards. And now with the new format, that feeling of having to play catchup to the people who use money or just play an assload more than I do will basically never end. But the post started to ramble, and I started feeling like one of those assholes that screams about P2W at every minuscule change. And I don't want to be that guy.
I will say that intellectually, I completely understand that this new format will be much better in the long run for the health of the game. And if I had been playing as long as most of you, I'd probably be just as excited for this change. It just sucks that I pick probably the most inopportune time to start playing. I've only been playing since the beginning of October, so I've spent the past 4 months struggling to expand my collection, and now just as I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up if feels like they pull the rug out from under me.
I honestly wanted to add in that it seems this way for most F2P games. When the whales start to get bored with a game, the game usually takes a big leap again to keep them swimming. Thus most of the F2P players (or those who don't play as often) feel like they're always underwater and way behind.
because Blizzard isn't going to be balancing with respect to Wild.
That isn't true.
A quote from Blizzard:
We will monitor the balance of both Standard and Wild formats once they arrive. We want players to choose the format(s) that fit how they want to play the game and will continue to ensure that all modes of play are an enjoyable experience.
Ben Brode also talked about it in his PC Gamer interview. Generally they're going to be focusing balance patches on Standard, but do expect them to make changes if something in wild gets really stupidly out of hand.
Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I also personally believe that you're approcing a CCG game, digital or otherwise, from a flawed point of view. I remember people paying 20-100 per card for standard viable decks and those cards aren't worth as much. So "investing" in hearthstone was always going to be a losing proposition.
Standard will let them make new and interesting cards without having to be Dr. 7 levels powerful.
And people netdeck because A. creating a deck is actually hard, and so few people are truly good at it, so thats why copying takes place. If you think streaming is the fault of this, I hate to tell you but the reason it's called netdecking is because of MTG. Before regional tournaments, the pros would work in groups and create meta decks and iterate on them. Then when the results were posted people would copy those decks.
B. People want to win. I personally think it's just a corollary: streamers generally win, so people copy them. If they don't win, they don't get copied.
Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I try not to remember any parts of the Mirrodin block.
I'm amazed they didn't fire that entire design and balance team.
If Wild gets out of control, Blizzard should either a) patch the problem cards, or b) let things go wog wild. If they go with the b route, it'll end up so broken it's balanced. Sound weird? Strange but not uncommon.
In the fighting game genre, Capcom released a series of "versus" games pitting Marvel characters against Capcom characters. X-Men vs Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, and so forth. These games were way over the top in terms of combos and gameplay that regular Street Fighter never came close to.
X-Men vs Street Fighter was so broken it was silly. Every character had infinite combos (aka Touch of Death combos) that could finish off an opposing character off of one hit. Sure, they were usually tough to pull off and required a lot of practice and memorization, but they existed. These combos turned a lot of players off from the game (myself included) as it made the game seem pointless and unfun.
In reality though, the game took on a completely different life. No longer was any game hopeless. Even if you had one pixel of life, you had a chance of winning. Defensive awareness (knowing when to block low, high, or not at all) became paramount. Screwing up your infinite combo (again, they weren't easy) meant possibly losing a match and added more stress in-game on getting it right. There were definitely more dominant characters, but every character had a infinite loop to abuse and win with.
My point is that if Wild gets out of control, it might be best to let it. Having all cards start to get OP in certain situations may not be a bad thing. It could accidentally and dynamically change the way the game is played. Imagine some wacky universe where the right combination of cards could cause you to win on turn 10 with Shaman. And as more cards get created and dumped into Wild....well, it could get even wilder.
I don't think it will come to this, but it could actually be a silly, fun way to play.
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+1
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I just feel that saying "now they won't balance for wild!" sort of misses the whole purpose of this decision.
they don't feel they can reasonably put out more and more cards for wild while keeping it balanced as is. that's why they want the opportunity to cycle out old sets. it also freshens things up for those of us that have played a lot for a long time but I think the biggest reason is like, you don't want to have to design in a world that has dr boom and piloted shredder for all eternity. in fact, you kind of can't, as cards will either be even stronger or simply not played. so now you have your feet less to the fire on keeping wild balanced and can perhaps deliver a better competitive experience for people who like that
I could be wrong, I'm not sure they've really sold it this way but it seems evidently true to me.
I also personally believe that you're approcing a CCG game, digital or otherwise, from a flawed point of view.
That's the issue. There is no flawed way to consume entertainment. My Hearthstone experience isn't exactly typical. I collect golden cards for a single class with the intention of some day using them in the highest levels of competitive play. That's not flawed, that's what excites me about collections and competitions. That used to be a slow but reliably steady grind. Now it's going to be a treadmill where Golden Vol'jin and Paletress go flying off the back end, and if I don't keep running, whatever new cards they release to replace them are going to pass me by as well.
Take Dragon Priest for example. That was the deck I was slowly building out with bling, hoping to ladder to legend. Well, had I gotten around to crafting Twilight Whelps in gold, they would, in the future, be invalid. Disenchanting them comes with a HUGE lost of dust, so in essence, the style of play that I enjoyed is now being taxed. To craft whatever card I want to replace them, I'd have to earn the refund cost 7 more times. That's not a flaw in me, that is just me being a casualty of Blizzard's vision for progress.
I don't begrudge them for doing this. If this is what they have to do for the health of the game, so be it. But I'm no longer interesting in continuing along with them.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
you could play that golden deck to legend in wild, though, exactly how you've wanted to this whole time
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Wild is also a way for them to not worry about banning/changing cards and it ruining the economy of the game.
They now have a set time in which they know a card is going to cycle out. If they can ride out the imbalance until it hits Wild, they can change/ban it without offering full dust as a refund, which I assume they think is basically lost revenue.
you could play that golden deck to legend in wild, though, exactly how you've wanted to this whole time
No, I cannot. Exactly how I wanted this whole time was against the best players the game had to offer. The highest levels of competitive play will not be Wild. It just won't. Ever.
Yeah.. we can use all our cards in wild, but the more I think about it, the less appealing that sounds. Why would I want to keep playing every third game against secret paladin?
Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.
My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.
Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.
If prep got changed to be -2 instead of -3 then it would be functionally worse than innervate and they are both class cards. The -3 is supposed to be balanced by the fact that it only applies to spells.
If prep gets changed, then innervate will definitely get changed as well.
Yeah I think would want both of them to be 2 free mana, one for spells and one for creatures.
The contrast is nice and highlights the differences in terms of what each class cares about
Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.
My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.
Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.
But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.
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It's not about whether it's too good, roar is the only card on my list I think is too good. It's about how Blizzard has said they don't want people playing the same autoinclude classic cards forever.
ah, got it. I misread. Well, innervate is probably close to auto-include. Prep isn't, imo. Yeah, ask me for really competitive rogue decks that don't run it and I'll shrug, but I don't think that's prep's fault. There are a lot of deck styles that should be viable that shouldn't run prep.
Innervate is the most auto-include of any auto-include card out there. By that I mean, if other classes had access to it, every deck would run it (with maybe 1-2 exceptions). It's not like Death's Bite, which is arguably warrior's best card. Most druids wouldn't touch it.
Deathrattle raptor rogue doesn't use prep. But the core problem with prep is that it hinders rogue development because every spell that's printed has to be done with the knowledge that Prep can cheat it out early.
Go look at Magic, standard is by far the preferred format over modern or legacy.
Since they most likely won't be balancing against Wild, decks will just get more and more powerful, and the only counters will be equally OP decks. It's going to be a different kind of fun, especially when they start making clones/reprints/dups of cards so you can effectively have more than 2 of a card.
I just wish they weren't getting rid of all of the unique effect legendaries, or some of the staples that weren't broken (like death's bite). Seems like making a "core set" of certain cards would be better than just using classic as is for base.
Standard is preferred, in general, but not always. At the height of Jace/Preordain dominance, standard attendance plummeted, and Legacy saw a significant rise in players.
I would actually postulate that more people would play legacy (more than even standard) if the core cards that make up that format could be reprinted to allow easier access to the format. When you're going to pay 300-500 bucks for a mana base, that's a steep investment curve for most players.
Here's a fun little experiment; let's create an all-time deck of auto-includes. These are cards that see use in 75% of all of a classes deck. 30 cards from any class, including neutrals, with say alternates that barely missed the cut. What's your list?
Innervate
Dr. Boom
Ancient of Lore
Force of Nature
Savage Roar
Entomb
BGH
Sludge Belcher
Death's Bite
Truesilver Champion
Keeper of the Grove
Keeper of Uldaman
Eaglehorn Bow
Animal Companion
Preparation
Kill Command
Muster for Battle
Shielded Minibot
Unleash the Hounds
Velen's Chosen
Fiery War Axe
Backstab
Eviscerate
Northshire Cleric
Shadow Word: Death
Wrath
Wild Growth
Power Word: Shield
Shield Slam
Execute
Shield Block (alt)
Flametongue Totem (alt)
Quick Shot (alt)
Dark Bomb (alt)
Arcane Intellect (alt)
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Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.
My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.
Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.
But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.
I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.
you could play that golden deck to legend in wild, though, exactly how you've wanted to this whole time
No, I cannot. Exactly how I wanted this whole time was against the best players the game had to offer. The highest levels of competitive play will not be Wild. It just won't. Ever.
There will be a strong Wild community. There will be good players there. The format will likely remain cherished (if Legacy/Vintage are any indication) over the life of the game. There almost certainly will be Wild tournaments and places for Wild players to compete.
As the game ages, more and more veteran players will likely prefer Wild, which will further bolster that community. I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years there isn't a way to grind into the world championships via Wild, or if Wild isn't featured there prominently at some point.
My main concern with Wild is that, like the older Magic formats, it will become a place solely for veterans with big collections worth lots of money, and scrubs like me will never stand a chance. I don't spend money on the game, I play ranked in order to complete quests and get money for the arena. I have some purples and oranges that I've opened in packs and I can win games against other scrubs at my level. But if I start playing games in Wild casual and just get stomped every game by people running x2 Dr. Boom and every other expensive legendary, I'm just going to say screw it and never play Wild. And remember, the only way for new players to get more Wild cards to be competitive will be to dust Standard cards. I think if they were to keep the old expansions and adventures in the store they would serve as a way for new players to get into Wild.
I'm wondering if a 0-drop "Draw a card" would be OP for rogue. Probably. And I have to think it'd be auto-include. 1) you get to trim your deck down to basically 28 cards and 2) 2 free combo activators.
Hmmm...makes me think I've been underestimating shiv all this time.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
My main concern with Wild is that, like the older Magic formats, it will become a place solely for veterans with big collections worth lots of money, and scrubs like me will never stand a chance. I don't spend money on the game, I play ranked in order to complete quests and get money for the arena. I have some purples and oranges that I've opened in packs and I can win games against other scrubs at my level. But if I start playing games in Wild casual and just get stomped every game by people running x2 Dr. Boom and every other expensive legendary, I'm just going to say screw it and never play Wild. And remember, the only way for new players to get more Wild cards to be competitive will be to dust Standard cards. I think if they were to keep the old expansions and adventures in the store they would serve as a way for new players to get into Wild.
It will definitely become that.
But to be fair, without a separate format ALL of Hearthstone will become that. It already basically is that.
You(all) are acting like you only come across quality players in ranked. People play top tier decks in casual, too. Since the ranks are going to be exactly like they are now, you'll still be matched with people of a similar rank in both wild and standard.
I honestly cannot believe that you're saying people won't be competetive in wild. Are you serious? Pros want to get to the highest rank in the fastest amount of time. If it doesn't matter if it's wild or standard, and wild is easier, you better believe the pros will be playing in wild. Hell, why do you think everyone is facing secrets right now? because it's consistent and easy. Same with Face hunter.
I agree with the point that wild is definitely going to reward fat collections disproportionately. But that was going to happen (IS happening) to the game now. And honestly, if you are agressively FTP, then it's all about making calculated craftings. It's not about depth of your collection, it's about hitting the key cards.
Basically, while hearthstone is fundamentally different than magic, magic has been doing this long enough that if you don't watch what they do/have done, you're going to make the same mistakes. This is why they pulled pros in before making the nerfs: magic does the same thing.
Again, I get why adding another play mode, one that rotates out cards, seems bad to F2P advocates, In the long run it's gonna be pretty good.
Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.
My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.
Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.
But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.
I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.
This is exactly what I was getting at. The very thing everyone who's been playing for a long time is excited about (having the same proven backbone cards, mostly from GvG & Naxx, removed) is the very thing that was starting to make it feel like I was gradually catching up. Like if this were a race, it's felt like most people were already at or close to the finish line, and I was way behind, but at least they weren't going anywhere so I could make progress towards catching them. Now it feels like we're all on a conveyor belt and I'm worried my level of commitment (both monetarily and time) won't be enough to ever keep up.
I'm definitely not throwing my hands up and walking away in disgust. I'm still hopeful and acknowledge the fact that there's just as much likelihood that I'm overreacting to a fear of change. Maybe it'll be easier to fill in my library than I'm assuming it will be and that having everyone rest will put a relatively new player like myself on a more even playing field. Presumably this will lead to a much more exciting meta with new and interesting archetypes popping up much more frequently. I'm tempering my panic with all of these things, but until it's actually implemented it's probably not going to be enough to completely assuage my trepidation.
TheCanMan on
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.
My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.
Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.
But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.
I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.
Like if this were a race, it's felt like most people were already at or close to the finish line, and I was way behind, but at least they weren't going anywhere so I could make progress towards catching them. Now it feels like we're all on a conveyor belt and I'll worried my level of commitment (both monetarily and time) won't be enough to ever keep up.
I like this analogy but to expand it further:
Before these changes, the Race was constantly getting longer and longer and longer. The starting line was fixed, while the finish line kept getting moved back. Meaning players just starting out were faced with an ever extending marathon while players who had been around for a while only had to worry about sprints.
Now, with Standard, the starting line has been moved to a fixed distance from the finish line. It moves with the finish line. And everyone knows when the starting line is going to move and to where. New players have a fixed distance to the finish line. Still a marathon, but it has no chance of becoming a double or triple marathon like it would eventually become without Standard. Old consistent players still have the same sprints they always had. This benefits new and returning players. It doesn't hurt older consistent players at all.
edit: and in your case, you know where the new starting lines are going to be. Instead of worrying about the treadmill, you could instead skip part of the race knowing it will be irrelevant in a short time and instead start your race already caught up with the older players and doing just the sprints as the finish line is moved out. Eventually, there will be no difference between you and the older players in standard.
You(all) are acting like you only come across quality players in ranked. People play top tier decks in casual, too. Since the ranks are going to be exactly like they are now, you'll still be matched with people of a similar rank in both wild and standard.
I honestly cannot believe that you're saying people won't be competetive in wild. Are you serious? Pros want to get to the highest rank in the fastest amount of time. If it doesn't matter if it's wild or standard, and wild is easier, you better believe the pros will be playing in wild. Hell, why do you think everyone is facing secrets right now? because it's consistent and easy. Same with Face hunter.
I agree with the point that wild is definitely going to reward fat collections disproportionately. But that was going to happen (IS happening) to the game now. And honestly, if you are agressively FTP, then it's all about making calculated craftings. It's not about depth of your collection, it's about hitting the key cards.
Basically, while hearthstone is fundamentally different than magic, magic has been doing this long enough that if you don't watch what they do/have done, you're going to make the same mistakes. This is why they pulled pros in before making the nerfs: magic does the same thing.
Again, I get why adding another play mode, one that rotates out cards, seems bad to F2P advocates, In the long run it's gonna be pretty good.
Objectively, I know most of what you're saying is probably true (although that doesn't stop help my, likely irrational, subjective fear). Except for the part about Wild being anything except a place for whales to show off their broken decks that can now only be crafted with dust. The pros try to rank up as fast as possible because they're gunning for tournament points, that's why they're in Ranked instead of Casual for the most part. The announcement said that Standard will be the only officially recognized tournament format. So that's where the pros will be, and that's where the focus of the rest of the competitively motivated community will be as a result.
Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.
My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.
Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.
But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.
I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.
Like if this were a race, it's felt like most people were already at or close to the finish line, and I was way behind, but at least they weren't going anywhere so I could make progress towards catching them. Now it feels like we're all on a conveyor belt and I'll worried my level of commitment (both monetarily and time) won't be enough to ever keep up.
I like this analogy but to expand it further:
Before these changes, the Race was constantly getting longer and longer and longer. The starting line was fixed, while the finish line kept getting moved back. Meaning players just starting out were faced with an ever extending marathon while players who had been around for a while only had to worry about sprints.
Now, with Standard, the starting line has been moved to a fixed distance from the finish line. It moves with the finish line. And everyone knows when the starting line is going to move and to where. New players have a fixed distance to the finish line. Still a marathon, but it has no chance of becoming a double or triple marathon like it would eventually become without Standard. Old consistent players still have the same sprints they always had. This benefits new and returning players. It doesn't hurt older consistent players at all.
edit: and in your case, you know where the new starting lines are going to be. Instead of worrying about the treadmill, you could instead skip part of the race knowing it will be irrelevant in a short time and instead start your race already caught up with the older players and doing just the sprints as the finish line is moved out. Eventually, there will be no difference between you and the older players in standard.
Yeah, this is pretty much where I've settled while trying to push my worries as far back as I can. And I'll probably stop filling the thread with my paranoia. But I'm not promising anything!
I'm planning on not spending a single piece of gold or piece of dust until the balancing pass hits and the new expansion comes out. And then just hoping that the grind to get my library to hit some kind of critical mass isn't as bad as I fear. So I'm basically in a static holding pattern until then. Only real question I have now is whether or not I should put my gold towards Classic packs to fill out that part of my collection instead of doing nothing. The temptation to do something even if it's not the most ideal course of action is pretty strong.
0
The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
I'm wondering if a 0-drop "Draw a card" would be OP for rogue. Probably. And I have to think it'd be auto-include. 1) you get to trim your deck down to basically 28 cards and 2) 2 free combo activators.
Hmmm...makes me think I've been underestimating shiv all this time.
Huh...something else just occurred to me, and pardon me if I'm slow on the uptake, or if I'm forgetting posts that have already talked about this, but...
GvG and Naxx going off the market means that while, sure, you can dust if there's a few cards you need, if you start playing after GvG or Naxx, you're never going to have anything like a complete collection of those cards without spending a *tremendous* amount of money. So, hypothetically those cards could become a lot more rare and desirable? Even if wild is a shit-show, I can see people wanting those cards just because.
I'm wondering if a 0-drop "Draw a card" would be OP for rogue. Probably. And I have to think it'd be auto-include. 1) you get to trim your deck down to basically 28 cards and 2) 2 free combo activators.
Hmmm...makes me think I've been underestimating shiv all this time.
Huh...something else just occurred to me, and pardon me if I'm slow on the uptake, or if I'm forgetting posts that have already talked about this, but...
GvG and Naxx going off the market means that while, sure, you can dust if there's a few cards you need, if you start playing after GvG or Naxx, you're never going to have anything like a complete collection of those cards without spending a *tremendous* amount of money. So, hypothetically those cards could become a lot more rare and desirable? Even if wild is a shit-show, I can see people wanting those cards just because.
Rarest card in the game is non-golden Elite Tauren Chieftain. Don't see people falling over themselves to craft him.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.
My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.
Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.
But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.
I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.
Like if this were a race, it's felt like most people were already at or close to the finish line, and I was way behind, but at least they weren't going anywhere so I could make progress towards catching them. Now it feels like we're all on a conveyor belt and I'll worried my level of commitment (both monetarily and time) won't be enough to ever keep up.
I like this analogy but to expand it further:
Before these changes, the Race was constantly getting longer and longer and longer. The starting line was fixed, while the finish line kept getting moved back. Meaning players just starting out were faced with an ever extending marathon while players who had been around for a while only had to worry about sprints.
Now, with Standard, the starting line has been moved to a fixed distance from the finish line. It moves with the finish line. And everyone knows when the starting line is going to move and to where. New players have a fixed distance to the finish line. Still a marathon, but it has no chance of becoming a double or triple marathon like it would eventually become without Standard. Old consistent players still have the same sprints they always had. This benefits new and returning players. It doesn't hurt older consistent players at all.
edit: and in your case, you know where the new starting lines are going to be. Instead of worrying about the treadmill, you could instead skip part of the race knowing it will be irrelevant in a short time and instead start your race already caught up with the older players and doing just the sprints as the finish line is moved out. Eventually, there will be no difference between you and the older players in standard.
Yeah, this is pretty much where I've settled while trying to push my worries as far back as I can. And I'll probably stop filling the thread with my paranoia. But I'm not promising anything!
I'm planning on not spending a single piece of gold or piece of dust until the balancing pass hits and the new expansion comes out. And then just hoping that the grind to get my library to hit some kind of critical mass isn't as bad as I fear. So I'm basically in a static holding pattern until then. Only real question I have now is whether or not I should put my gold towards Classic packs to fill out that part of my collection instead of doing nothing. The temptation to do something even if it's not the most ideal course of action is pretty strong.
Definitely fill out your Classic Collection.
In fact, advice to newbies should be the following, in order:
1) Unlock all the Basic Cards
2) Spend gold on Classic until that collection feels good
3) Focus on buying adventures/expansions prioritizing the most recent first.
I'm wondering if a 0-drop "Draw a card" would be OP for rogue. Probably. And I have to think it'd be auto-include. 1) you get to trim your deck down to basically 28 cards and 2) 2 free combo activators.
Hmmm...makes me think I've been underestimating shiv all this time.
I'm still annoyed with Ancestral Knowledge costing effectively 4, while Mages get the same effect for 3 and can even reduce it to 2 with Sorc's apprentice.
Posts
This is like saying that you can't use your cards in arena and so it kills your interest. Standard is a new mode that doesn't change or affect the old mode. You never have to leave casual. You never have to leave wild. You will still get the same rewards as people in standard.
Why do you care what other people play, re Streamers?
The "ghetto" may not be getting changed, but it's also going to be an afterthought. The assumption (and it seems like a reasonable one) is that Wild will degenerate into a shit show because Blizzard isn't going to be balancing with respect to Wild. That's basically the entire point of this new format. So they can free up the design space by not having to worry about how the new cards interact with an ever growing library of old cards. So you're going to see more and more broken interactions.
And you and I may not give a rat's ass about what the streamer play, but you're crazy if you don't think the community at large cares a great deal. It's why every time one of the streamers has some success with a new deck variant, the next day it's all over the place. What the streamers do has a sizable effect on the game. And if tournaments are going to be Standard, that's what the streamers are going to play, and most of the public will follow them there.
FAKE EDIT: I was going to write about my worries of P2W creep because, as a generally F2P player, with the current format at least it felt like I could see the light at the end of the tunnel as I've gotten more and more of the proven backbone cards. And now with the new format, that feeling of having to play catchup to the people who use money or just play an assload more than I do will basically never end. But the post started to ramble, and I started feeling like one of those assholes that screams about P2W at every minuscule change. And I don't want to be that guy.
I will say that intellectually, I completely understand that this new format will be much better in the long run for the health of the game. And if I had been playing as long as most of you, I'd probably be just as excited for this change. It just sucks that I pick probably the most inopportune time to start playing. I've only been playing since the beginning of October, so I've spent the past 4 months struggling to expand my collection, and now just as I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up if feels like they pull the rug out from under me.
I honestly wanted to add in that it seems this way for most F2P games. When the whales start to get bored with a game, the game usually takes a big leap again to keep them swimming. Thus most of the F2P players (or those who don't play as often) feel like they're always underwater and way behind.
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That isn't true.
A quote from Blizzard:
Ben Brode also talked about it in his PC Gamer interview. Generally they're going to be focusing balance patches on Standard, but do expect them to make changes if something in wild gets really stupidly out of hand.
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I also personally believe that you're approcing a CCG game, digital or otherwise, from a flawed point of view. I remember people paying 20-100 per card for standard viable decks and those cards aren't worth as much. So "investing" in hearthstone was always going to be a losing proposition.
Standard will let them make new and interesting cards without having to be Dr. 7 levels powerful.
And people netdeck because A. creating a deck is actually hard, and so few people are truly good at it, so thats why copying takes place. If you think streaming is the fault of this, I hate to tell you but the reason it's called netdecking is because of MTG. Before regional tournaments, the pros would work in groups and create meta decks and iterate on them. Then when the results were posted people would copy those decks.
B. People want to win. I personally think it's just a corollary: streamers generally win, so people copy them. If they don't win, they don't get copied.
But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.
However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard
Anyone remember skullclamp?
I'm amazed they didn't fire that entire design and balance team.
In the fighting game genre, Capcom released a series of "versus" games pitting Marvel characters against Capcom characters. X-Men vs Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, and so forth. These games were way over the top in terms of combos and gameplay that regular Street Fighter never came close to.
X-Men vs Street Fighter was so broken it was silly. Every character had infinite combos (aka Touch of Death combos) that could finish off an opposing character off of one hit. Sure, they were usually tough to pull off and required a lot of practice and memorization, but they existed. These combos turned a lot of players off from the game (myself included) as it made the game seem pointless and unfun.
In reality though, the game took on a completely different life. No longer was any game hopeless. Even if you had one pixel of life, you had a chance of winning. Defensive awareness (knowing when to block low, high, or not at all) became paramount. Screwing up your infinite combo (again, they weren't easy) meant possibly losing a match and added more stress in-game on getting it right. There were definitely more dominant characters, but every character had a infinite loop to abuse and win with.
My point is that if Wild gets out of control, it might be best to let it. Having all cards start to get OP in certain situations may not be a bad thing. It could accidentally and dynamically change the way the game is played. Imagine some wacky universe where the right combination of cards could cause you to win on turn 10 with Shaman. And as more cards get created and dumped into Wild....well, it could get even wilder.
I don't think it will come to this, but it could actually be a silly, fun way to play.
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they don't feel they can reasonably put out more and more cards for wild while keeping it balanced as is. that's why they want the opportunity to cycle out old sets. it also freshens things up for those of us that have played a lot for a long time but I think the biggest reason is like, you don't want to have to design in a world that has dr boom and piloted shredder for all eternity. in fact, you kind of can't, as cards will either be even stronger or simply not played. so now you have your feet less to the fire on keeping wild balanced and can perhaps deliver a better competitive experience for people who like that
I could be wrong, I'm not sure they've really sold it this way but it seems evidently true to me.
That's the issue. There is no flawed way to consume entertainment. My Hearthstone experience isn't exactly typical. I collect golden cards for a single class with the intention of some day using them in the highest levels of competitive play. That's not flawed, that's what excites me about collections and competitions. That used to be a slow but reliably steady grind. Now it's going to be a treadmill where Golden Vol'jin and Paletress go flying off the back end, and if I don't keep running, whatever new cards they release to replace them are going to pass me by as well.
Take Dragon Priest for example. That was the deck I was slowly building out with bling, hoping to ladder to legend. Well, had I gotten around to crafting Twilight Whelps in gold, they would, in the future, be invalid. Disenchanting them comes with a HUGE lost of dust, so in essence, the style of play that I enjoyed is now being taxed. To craft whatever card I want to replace them, I'd have to earn the refund cost 7 more times. That's not a flaw in me, that is just me being a casualty of Blizzard's vision for progress.
I don't begrudge them for doing this. If this is what they have to do for the health of the game, so be it. But I'm no longer interesting in continuing along with them.
They now have a set time in which they know a card is going to cycle out. If they can ride out the imbalance until it hits Wild, they can change/ban it without offering full dust as a refund, which I assume they think is basically lost revenue.
Xbox Live / Steam
No, I cannot. Exactly how I wanted this whole time was against the best players the game had to offer. The highest levels of competitive play will not be Wild. It just won't. Ever.
I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.
My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.
Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.
Yeah I think would want both of them to be 2 free mana, one for spells and one for creatures.
The contrast is nice and highlights the differences in terms of what each class cares about
But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.
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Innervate is the most auto-include of any auto-include card out there. By that I mean, if other classes had access to it, every deck would run it (with maybe 1-2 exceptions). It's not like Death's Bite, which is arguably warrior's best card. Most druids wouldn't touch it.
Deathrattle raptor rogue doesn't use prep. But the core problem with prep is that it hinders rogue development because every spell that's printed has to be done with the knowledge that Prep can cheat it out early.
Standard is preferred, in general, but not always. At the height of Jace/Preordain dominance, standard attendance plummeted, and Legacy saw a significant rise in players.
I would actually postulate that more people would play legacy (more than even standard) if the core cards that make up that format could be reprinted to allow easier access to the format. When you're going to pay 300-500 bucks for a mana base, that's a steep investment curve for most players.
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I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.
There will be a strong Wild community. There will be good players there. The format will likely remain cherished (if Legacy/Vintage are any indication) over the life of the game. There almost certainly will be Wild tournaments and places for Wild players to compete.
As the game ages, more and more veteran players will likely prefer Wild, which will further bolster that community. I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple of years there isn't a way to grind into the world championships via Wild, or if Wild isn't featured there prominently at some point.
Hmmm...makes me think I've been underestimating shiv all this time.
It will definitely become that.
But to be fair, without a separate format ALL of Hearthstone will become that. It already basically is that.
Xbox Live / Steam
I honestly cannot believe that you're saying people won't be competetive in wild. Are you serious? Pros want to get to the highest rank in the fastest amount of time. If it doesn't matter if it's wild or standard, and wild is easier, you better believe the pros will be playing in wild. Hell, why do you think everyone is facing secrets right now? because it's consistent and easy. Same with Face hunter.
I agree with the point that wild is definitely going to reward fat collections disproportionately. But that was going to happen (IS happening) to the game now. And honestly, if you are agressively FTP, then it's all about making calculated craftings. It's not about depth of your collection, it's about hitting the key cards.
Basically, while hearthstone is fundamentally different than magic, magic has been doing this long enough that if you don't watch what they do/have done, you're going to make the same mistakes. This is why they pulled pros in before making the nerfs: magic does the same thing.
Again, I get why adding another play mode, one that rotates out cards, seems bad to F2P advocates, In the long run it's gonna be pretty good.
This is exactly what I was getting at. The very thing everyone who's been playing for a long time is excited about (having the same proven backbone cards, mostly from GvG & Naxx, removed) is the very thing that was starting to make it feel like I was gradually catching up. Like if this were a race, it's felt like most people were already at or close to the finish line, and I was way behind, but at least they weren't going anywhere so I could make progress towards catching them. Now it feels like we're all on a conveyor belt and I'm worried my level of commitment (both monetarily and time) won't be enough to ever keep up.
I'm definitely not throwing my hands up and walking away in disgust. I'm still hopeful and acknowledge the fact that there's just as much likelihood that I'm overreacting to a fear of change. Maybe it'll be easier to fill in my library than I'm assuming it will be and that having everyone rest will put a relatively new player like myself on a more even playing field. Presumably this will lead to a much more exciting meta with new and interesting archetypes popping up much more frequently. I'm tempering my panic with all of these things, but until it's actually implemented it's probably not going to be enough to completely assuage my trepidation.
I like this analogy but to expand it further:
Before these changes, the Race was constantly getting longer and longer and longer. The starting line was fixed, while the finish line kept getting moved back. Meaning players just starting out were faced with an ever extending marathon while players who had been around for a while only had to worry about sprints.
Now, with Standard, the starting line has been moved to a fixed distance from the finish line. It moves with the finish line. And everyone knows when the starting line is going to move and to where. New players have a fixed distance to the finish line. Still a marathon, but it has no chance of becoming a double or triple marathon like it would eventually become without Standard. Old consistent players still have the same sprints they always had. This benefits new and returning players. It doesn't hurt older consistent players at all.
edit: and in your case, you know where the new starting lines are going to be. Instead of worrying about the treadmill, you could instead skip part of the race knowing it will be irrelevant in a short time and instead start your race already caught up with the older players and doing just the sprints as the finish line is moved out. Eventually, there will be no difference between you and the older players in standard.
Xbox Live / Steam
Objectively, I know most of what you're saying is probably true (although that doesn't stop help my, likely irrational, subjective fear). Except for the part about Wild being anything except a place for whales to show off their broken decks that can now only be crafted with dust. The pros try to rank up as fast as possible because they're gunning for tournament points, that's why they're in Ranked instead of Casual for the most part. The announcement said that Standard will be the only officially recognized tournament format. So that's where the pros will be, and that's where the focus of the rest of the competitively motivated community will be as a result.
Yeah, this is pretty much where I've settled while trying to push my worries as far back as I can. And I'll probably stop filling the thread with my paranoia. But I'm not promising anything!
I'm planning on not spending a single piece of gold or piece of dust until the balancing pass hits and the new expansion comes out. And then just hoping that the grind to get my library to hit some kind of critical mass isn't as bad as I fear. So I'm basically in a static holding pattern until then. Only real question I have now is whether or not I should put my gold towards Classic packs to fill out that part of my collection instead of doing nothing. The temptation to do something even if it's not the most ideal course of action is pretty strong.
http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Adrenaline_Rush
GvG and Naxx going off the market means that while, sure, you can dust if there's a few cards you need, if you start playing after GvG or Naxx, you're never going to have anything like a complete collection of those cards without spending a *tremendous* amount of money. So, hypothetically those cards could become a lot more rare and desirable? Even if wild is a shit-show, I can see people wanting those cards just because.
Oh damn. So super OP.
Rarest card in the game is non-golden Elite Tauren Chieftain. Don't see people falling over themselves to craft him.
Definitely fill out your Classic Collection.
In fact, advice to newbies should be the following, in order:
1) Unlock all the Basic Cards
2) Spend gold on Classic until that collection feels good
3) Focus on buying adventures/expansions prioritizing the most recent first.
Xbox Live / Steam
That could cost 2 and not be too bad.
I'm still annoyed with Ancestral Knowledge costing effectively 4, while Mages get the same effect for 3 and can even reduce it to 2 with Sorc's apprentice.
Xbox Live / Steam