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Posts

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    While not literally zero, the number of cards changed since the official release is zero with the "multiplayer game with millions of users" adjustment factor.

  • BartholamueBartholamue Registered User regular
    Yeah, I was really hoping that they weren't going to go with formats. I hated that with the physical card games.

    Steam- SteveBartz Xbox Live- SteveBartz PSN Name- SteveBartz
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    Cromarty wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).

    But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.

    However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard

    Anyone remember skullclamp?

    I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.

    My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.

    Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.

    But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.

    I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.

    Like if this were a race, it's felt like most people were already at or close to the finish line, and I was way behind, but at least they weren't going anywhere so I could make progress towards catching them. Now it feels like we're all on a conveyor belt and I'll worried my level of commitment (both monetarily and time) won't be enough to ever keep up.

    I like this analogy but to expand it further:

    Before these changes, the Race was constantly getting longer and longer and longer. The starting line was fixed, while the finish line kept getting moved back. Meaning players just starting out were faced with an ever extending marathon while players who had been around for a while only had to worry about sprints.

    Now, with Standard, the starting line has been moved to a fixed distance from the finish line. It moves with the finish line. And everyone knows when the starting line is going to move and to where. New players have a fixed distance to the finish line. Still a marathon, but it has no chance of becoming a double or triple marathon like it would eventually become without Standard. Old consistent players still have the same sprints they always had. This benefits new and returning players. It doesn't hurt older consistent players at all.

    edit: and in your case, you know where the new starting lines are going to be. Instead of worrying about the treadmill, you could instead skip part of the race knowing it will be irrelevant in a short time and instead start your race already caught up with the older players and doing just the sprints as the finish line is moved out. Eventually, there will be no difference between you and the older players in standard.

    Yeah, this is pretty much where I've settled while trying to push my worries as far back as I can. And I'll probably stop filling the thread with my paranoia. But I'm not promising anything! :wink:

    I'm planning on not spending a single piece of gold or piece of dust until the balancing pass hits and the new expansion comes out. And then just hoping that the grind to get my library to hit some kind of critical mass isn't as bad as I fear. So I'm basically in a static holding pattern until then. Only real question I have now is whether or not I should put my gold towards Classic packs to fill out that part of my collection instead of doing nothing. The temptation to do something even if it's not the most ideal course of action is pretty strong.

    Definitely fill out your Classic Collection.

    In fact, advice to newbies should be the following, in order:

    1) Unlock all the Basic Cards
    2) Spend gold on Classic until that collection feels good
    3) Focus on buying adventures/expansions prioritizing the most recent first.
    Actually, I am wondering about this. I was working on Blackrock before the announcement, but since it'll be the next to go, I'm not sure I want to make the effort now. Besides that, I am still missing a lot of important stuff from classic, even though just about every classic pack I get now has a useless duplicate in it.
    Should I save for the new expansion? Should I go back to filling out my classic collection for the time being? Should I bother with Blackrock, knowing that the only thing left I can really use is flamewaker, two wings and 1400 gold in from where I am now?

    Important to note: Since blackrock, tgt, and loe were all released in 2015 they will all be phased out from standard at exactly the same time.

    Muffinatron
  • akajaybayakajaybay Registered User regular
    Marty81 wrote: »
    Cromarty wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).

    But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.

    However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard

    Anyone remember skullclamp?

    I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.

    My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.

    Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.

    But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.

    I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.

    Like if this were a race, it's felt like most people were already at or close to the finish line, and I was way behind, but at least they weren't going anywhere so I could make progress towards catching them. Now it feels like we're all on a conveyor belt and I'll worried my level of commitment (both monetarily and time) won't be enough to ever keep up.

    I like this analogy but to expand it further:

    Before these changes, the Race was constantly getting longer and longer and longer. The starting line was fixed, while the finish line kept getting moved back. Meaning players just starting out were faced with an ever extending marathon while players who had been around for a while only had to worry about sprints.

    Now, with Standard, the starting line has been moved to a fixed distance from the finish line. It moves with the finish line. And everyone knows when the starting line is going to move and to where. New players have a fixed distance to the finish line. Still a marathon, but it has no chance of becoming a double or triple marathon like it would eventually become without Standard. Old consistent players still have the same sprints they always had. This benefits new and returning players. It doesn't hurt older consistent players at all.

    edit: and in your case, you know where the new starting lines are going to be. Instead of worrying about the treadmill, you could instead skip part of the race knowing it will be irrelevant in a short time and instead start your race already caught up with the older players and doing just the sprints as the finish line is moved out. Eventually, there will be no difference between you and the older players in standard.

    Yeah, this is pretty much where I've settled while trying to push my worries as far back as I can. And I'll probably stop filling the thread with my paranoia. But I'm not promising anything! :wink:

    I'm planning on not spending a single piece of gold or piece of dust until the balancing pass hits and the new expansion comes out. And then just hoping that the grind to get my library to hit some kind of critical mass isn't as bad as I fear. So I'm basically in a static holding pattern until then. Only real question I have now is whether or not I should put my gold towards Classic packs to fill out that part of my collection instead of doing nothing. The temptation to do something even if it's not the most ideal course of action is pretty strong.

    Definitely fill out your Classic Collection.

    In fact, advice to newbies should be the following, in order:

    1) Unlock all the Basic Cards
    2) Spend gold on Classic until that collection feels good
    3) Focus on buying adventures/expansions prioritizing the most recent first.
    Actually, I am wondering about this. I was working on Blackrock before the announcement, but since it'll be the next to go, I'm not sure I want to make the effort now. Besides that, I am still missing a lot of important stuff from classic, even though just about every classic pack I get now has a useless duplicate in it.
    Should I save for the new expansion? Should I go back to filling out my classic collection for the time being? Should I bother with Blackrock, knowing that the only thing left I can really use is flamewaker, two wings and 1400 gold in from where I am now?

    Important to note: Since blackrock, tgt, and loe were all released in 2015 they will all be phased out from standard at exactly the same time.

    Which would be in spring 2017 right?

    MuffinatronMadPen3cl1ps3
  • ColorlessGreenColorlessGreen Registered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    Cromarty wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    ObiFett wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    Marty81 wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    Okay. So first the issue was you don't want your cards that you paid money for to be obsolete. Then when it turns out they won't be, now you want them to continue to balance the game based on the old cards. I mean, I get the fear that these changes may affect the value of your collection somehow. I personally, don't see that, but I was playing magic back in beta, too, (which HOLY SHIT WAS 23 years ago).

    But I believe wild will still be healthy. I think us old timers and our collections are going to be great. I'm interested to see what the pros have suggested as far as changes.

    However, the alternative to having cards change is just banning them. That's even less fun. Magic has been doing this for decades and they still have to ban things within standard

    Anyone remember skullclamp?

    I think you're mashing my post up with someone else's. Because I never said anything about what your first paragraph is addressing.

    My issue is that I've spent the past 4 months struggling (mostly f2p) to get my collection to the point where I'm starting to feel like I'm catching up to everyone else (at least with respect to the necessary backbone cards), and as soon as that happened they decide to throw a bunch of that effort away. And my second issue is that now that feeling of having to play catchup, that I thought I was finally starting to get past, may end up being a perpetual state.

    Like I said, I understand the necessity of this change. I know it's a healthy change for the longevity of the game. And I know the goal is to have a more dynamic (and therefore more interesting and enjoyable) meta. I'm just grumpy that my timing sucked. If I had started a few months sooner I'd probably be just as ready for a change as you, and if I had started a few months later I probably wouldn't care as much about feeling like I've wasted my time. I'm sure I'll get over it, though. I hope so anyway.

    But... you were always going to have to play catch up again when a new expansion released. That hasn't changed and will never change. New expansions change the meta and, outside of a few eternally viable decks (which will still be viable in standard), you have to grind out new cards to compete.

    I tend to agree with this, but with cards cycling out it changes the level of commitment to new sets required. Like when TGT came out you might have had to craft just a few cards from it to keep your favorite deck viable. But now that GVG is going to rotate out you are going to have to fill a lot of gaps in your decks. Probably with new cards.

    Like if this were a race, it's felt like most people were already at or close to the finish line, and I was way behind, but at least they weren't going anywhere so I could make progress towards catching them. Now it feels like we're all on a conveyor belt and I'll worried my level of commitment (both monetarily and time) won't be enough to ever keep up.

    I like this analogy but to expand it further:

    Before these changes, the Race was constantly getting longer and longer and longer. The starting line was fixed, while the finish line kept getting moved back. Meaning players just starting out were faced with an ever extending marathon while players who had been around for a while only had to worry about sprints.

    Now, with Standard, the starting line has been moved to a fixed distance from the finish line. It moves with the finish line. And everyone knows when the starting line is going to move and to where. New players have a fixed distance to the finish line. Still a marathon, but it has no chance of becoming a double or triple marathon like it would eventually become without Standard. Old consistent players still have the same sprints they always had. This benefits new and returning players. It doesn't hurt older consistent players at all.

    edit: and in your case, you know where the new starting lines are going to be. Instead of worrying about the treadmill, you could instead skip part of the race knowing it will be irrelevant in a short time and instead start your race already caught up with the older players and doing just the sprints as the finish line is moved out. Eventually, there will be no difference between you and the older players in standard.

    Yeah, this is pretty much where I've settled while trying to push my worries as far back as I can. And I'll probably stop filling the thread with my paranoia. But I'm not promising anything! :wink:

    I'm planning on not spending a single piece of gold or piece of dust until the balancing pass hits and the new expansion comes out. And then just hoping that the grind to get my library to hit some kind of critical mass isn't as bad as I fear. So I'm basically in a static holding pattern until then. Only real question I have now is whether or not I should put my gold towards Classic packs to fill out that part of my collection instead of doing nothing. The temptation to do something even if it's not the most ideal course of action is pretty strong.

    Definitely fill out your Classic Collection.

    In fact, advice to newbies should be the following, in order:

    1) Unlock all the Basic Cards
    2) Spend gold on Classic until that collection feels good
    3) Focus on buying adventures/expansions prioritizing the most recent first.
    Actually, I am wondering about this. I was working on Blackrock before the announcement, but since it'll be the next to go, I'm not sure I want to make the effort now. Besides that, I am still missing a lot of important stuff from classic, even though just about every classic pack I get now has a useless duplicate in it.
    Should I save for the new expansion? Should I go back to filling out my classic collection for the time being? Should I bother with Blackrock, knowing that the only thing left I can really use is flamewaker, two wings and 1400 gold in from where I am now?

    Important to note: Since blackrock, tgt, and loe were all released in 2015 they will all be phased out from standard at exactly the same time.

    Which would be in spring 2017 right?

    Right, assuming the first 2017 expansion is in "spring" as well. They have said the format shift happens when the first expansion is released in the calendar year.

    Hearthstone (NA, EU, Asia): Ceegee#1473 - spectators welcome.
  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    Just thought of a likely consequence of set rotation for long-time F2P players.

    Assuming you're not dusting your cards, when an expansion first comes out, I think we'll likely see a shift of more F2P from Standard towards Wild. The reason being that they will be less able to compete with P2P players who can immediately fill out their Standard collection for whatever new meta decks come up. But while they grind out their gold/dust, Wild will be the semi-level playing ground that it will always be since as time goes on, it become less likely that new cards can significantly affect the meta there.

    3DS: 2105-8644-6304
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    MadPen
  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Uhhhhh... Kripp talking about nerfs in the Wild
    Listen up to 7:35, or read my paraphrase: "I 100% guarantee Blizzard will never nerf a Wild card."

    That's...kind of a crazy assertion to make. I mean, I know Blizzard has said they aren't going to do it, but that's a little different than...0-percent chance, guaranteed, ever. I don't typically find him to be hyperbolic, though, so....

    I get that they're never going to nerf a card like Boom, but Boom doesn't require nerfing.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • zakkielzakkiel Registered User regular
    Exactly how much money is Kripp going to put behind this "guarantee"? Interested parties want to know.

    Account not recoverable. So long.
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    Isn't Ben Brode on record saying they are going to nerf some druid cards in this balance pass?

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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    Cracked golden archmage antonidas a week after finally breaking down and crafting a regular...

    Nooooo

    PAD ID - 328,762,218
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    The real reason Standard is bad is because Bolvar Fordragon will never see competitive play.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
    MadPen
  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    zakkiel wrote: »
    Exactly how much money is Kripp going to put behind this "guarantee"? Interested parties want to know.

    Of course. :) And he's obviously been wrong before, but he's certainly making it sound like Blizzard's making the guarantee, and he's confident in it. I mean, if his only point is don't craft from sets being rotated out, well....duh. I wouldn't expect more than a nerf a year, but...I would expect some.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • lazegamerlazegamer Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Vanguard wrote: »
    lazegamer wrote: »
    MadPen wrote: »
    Huh...something else just occurred to me, and pardon me if I'm slow on the uptake, or if I'm forgetting posts that have already talked about this, but...

    GvG and Naxx going off the market means that while, sure, you can dust if there's a few cards you need, if you start playing after GvG or Naxx, you're never going to have anything like a complete collection of those cards without spending a *tremendous* amount of money. So, hypothetically those cards could become a lot more rare and desirable? Even if wild is a shit-show, I can see people wanting those cards just because.

    Yeah, this points to my largest complaint with what they've announced.

    The game we've been playing these last two years is essentially Standard. When the update comes through, they're transitioning a large portion of our collection to Wild, and purposefully raising the cost of participation in Wild to a ridiculous level. Not being able to buy Wild card packs / adventures is Blizzard intentionally making it difficult to continue to play the game that a lot of players have invested a great deal of time and (in some cases) money. Blizzard wants to relegate Wild to second tier status, and the removal of card packs and adventures is the engine by which they will achieve it.

    This is a really negative take on the situation. I certainly see how people can feel burned by the announcement, but the flipside of this is that they are tackling a massive problem the game has right now: the extremely high time investment necessary to play ranked with any chance of success. If they didn't do this, that is a problem that would only continue to grow worse. Not to mention that, from a design perspective, the game would either stagnate or we'd deal with more power creep.

    I think you're disagreeing with an argument I didn't make. Making seasons or a smaller card pool is a workable solution to a common problem. I've no complaint with that.

    Removing the ability to buy card packs / expansions is an effort designed to make Wild less accessible, which is what I take issue with. It feels punitive toward those who have spent a lot of time collecting cards and will now have to either abandon them to the Wild or spend a lot more time and effort than was expected because now the remainder of the cards are available solely through crafting.

    lazegamer on
    Muffinatron
  • MuffinatronMuffinatron Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    lazegamer wrote: »
    It feels punitive toward those who have spent a lot of time collecting cards and will now have to either abandon them to the Wild or spend a lot more time and effort than was expected because now the remainder of the cards are available solely through crafting.

    I agree with that. I think part of their thinking is maybe to simplify the adventure and pack buying process for newer players so they don't buy packs that aren't necessarily applicable to the mode they play in.

    There's a better solution to that though. Move rotated out adventures and sets into a separate 'wild' store front.

    Muffinatron on
    PSN: Holy-Promethium
  • RozRoz Boss of InternetRegistered User regular
    MadPen wrote: »
    Uhhhhh... Kripp talking about nerfs in the Wild
    Listen up to 7:35, or read my paraphrase: "I 100% guarantee Blizzard will never nerf a Wild card."

    That's...kind of a crazy assertion to make. I mean, I know Blizzard has said they aren't going to do it, but that's a little different than...0-percent chance, guaranteed, ever. I don't typically find him to be hyperbolic, though, so....

    I get that they're never going to nerf a card like Boom, but Boom doesn't require nerfing.

    Well,

    1) That can't be correct because there are cards in wild that will also be in standard and will likely be changed - eventually

    2) forever is a long ass time. If 5 years from now degenerate combos roam the land and the Wild community wants the format to be taken seriously, they will change cards. WotC does change the Banned/Restricted lists in Vintage, even though the format is only playable by - at most - a couple thousand people.

    His buffs/nerfs list is a dreamer's dream. I don't think will be anywhere near as drastic.

    FoN almost certainly gets changed for example, possibly alongside savage roar, but FoN is the degenerate part of that combo.

    Another way to look at it is like this - Savage Roar doesn't really constrain design space, FoN absolutely does.

  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Roz wrote: »
    MadPen wrote: »
    Uhhhhh... Kripp talking about nerfs in the Wild
    Listen up to 7:35, or read my paraphrase: "I 100% guarantee Blizzard will never nerf a Wild card."

    That's...kind of a crazy assertion to make. I mean, I know Blizzard has said they aren't going to do it, but that's a little different than...0-percent chance, guaranteed, ever. I don't typically find him to be hyperbolic, though, so....

    I get that they're never going to nerf a card like Boom, but Boom doesn't require nerfing.

    Well,

    1) That can't be correct because there are cards in wild that will also be in standard and will likely be changed - eventually

    2) forever is a long ass time. If 5 years from now degenerate combos roam the land and the Wild community wants the format to be taken seriously, they will change cards. WotC does change the Banned/Restricted lists in Vintage, even though the format is only playable by - at most - a couple thousand people.

    His buffs/nerfs list is a dreamer's dream. I don't think will be anywhere near as drastic.

    FoN almost certainly gets changed for example, possibly alongside savage roar, but FoN is the degenerate part of that combo.

    Another way to look at it is like this - Savage Roar doesn't really constrain design space, FoN absolutely does.

    1) my bad wording--wild-only cards...I believe he said "once cards are rotated out".

    2) Yeah.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    edited February 2016
    he's basically saying "blizzard will never nerf a card that has already been out for 2 years"

    which isn't really all that crazy of a statement to make

    Variable on
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    comic

    Its gonna get weird when he finds out she controls minds too.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • MadPenMadPen San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    he's basically saying "blizzard will never nerf a card that has already been out for 2 years"

    which isn't really all that crazy of a statement to make

    Well, if the problem is the interaction between the old card and a new card--a new card that is super cool and fun and great in standard...Doesn't it make more sense to nerf the old card? Your other options are to 1) not introduce/nerf the new card, which defeats the whole purpose of the standard format, or 2) let Wild go to hell. I suppose there's a 3rd option, which is to have the new card quietly (or loudly) interact differently with the legacy card....Hmm, yeah, that 3rd option is pretty good if you can work it. Like if you wanted to work around a nasty Justicar interaction on a new card after TGT rotates out, it could always specify your "original" hero power.

    I'm not super freaked out about this stuff, by the way. Just wildly speculating because I find it interesting.

    3DS: 4098-4243-6127
  • GdiguyGdiguy San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    akajaybay wrote: »
    lazegamer wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    akajaybay wrote: »
    Is there a handy mod/app that you can manage your collection with to give you the basic numbers you're missing from each set and what rarities etc?

    I'm using an excel spreadsheet with each set split onto their own tab, that I manually keep up to date. Yes, I'm a bit crazy.

    I use https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VdqhpiremPEiIKmS1YI8_8HkdYb57wb8cD4ZLnxtffU/edit#gid=772888699

    It's pretty great, and if you sort the card list as suggested it's maybe a 30m proposition to put your entire collection in from scratch.

    Yeah that does actually look pretty easily doable. I'll prolly fill that out actually.

    Is there actually an updated one including LoE cards? I see a link on the top line that seems to go back to the same file

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    MadPen wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    he's basically saying "blizzard will never nerf a card that has already been out for 2 years"

    which isn't really all that crazy of a statement to make

    Well, if the problem is the interaction between the old card and a new card--a new card that is super cool and fun and great in standard...Doesn't it make more sense to nerf the old card? Your other options are to 1) not introduce/nerf the new card, which defeats the whole purpose of the standard format, or 2) let Wild go to hell. I suppose there's a 3rd option, which is to have the new card quietly (or loudly) interact differently with the legacy card....Hmm, yeah, that 3rd option is pretty good if you can work it. Like if you wanted to work around a nasty Justicar interaction on a new card after TGT rotates out, it could always specify your "original" hero power.

    I'm not super freaked out about this stuff, by the way. Just wildly speculating because I find it interesting.

    The Warsong nerf is a nerf to a 22 month old card in response to the addition of a new unique card and a powerful interaction with it. Blizz will nerf Wild only cards if they think it's necessary.

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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    I just played Dr. Boom and Loatheb onto an empty board against a Priest thanks to the power of Ragnaros. Only another year before that fucking stupid card is out of Standard.

  • chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    What I don't understand about the switch is why they're removing Naxx entirely. Even if you can't use the cards in standard, I still feel that either for completionist sake or just some fun to be had with the adventure, it'd still be worth keeping available.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Man, yknow, a really easy nerf to Force of Nature would be to just make it so the Treants can't attack the enemy Hero.

    Boom. Done.

    Would FoN be worth running at that point? Maybe as a one-of? Eh, prolly not. I dunno, I mean I've gotten mileage out of using FoN to clear board before. It is useful. But it also can only be done if you're ahead, I guess. But at the same time, you're able to do that knowing you have a 2nd copy specifically for the combo. I'm not entirely sure running a single FoN as a board-cleary kinda deal would be worthwhile.

    Either way, let's assume they completely nuke FoN from orbit and it's no longer worth running. I think that'd be fine. Savage Roar is still a game ender if you have even a semblance of a board presence.

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  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    ask yourself if you've ever felt good about clearing the board with force

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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    I haven't heard a proposed change to FoN that wouldn't completely kill the card. I don't know if blizzard minds, though.

    Edit : If the treants couldn't go face then star fall is a better card.

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  • I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    you create a 2/2 minion that does at end of turn that reads "your charge minions have +1 attack"

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    Grobian3cl1ps3
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Grobian wrote: »
    I haven't heard a proposed change to FoN that wouldn't completely kill the card. I don't know if blizzard minds, though.

    Edit : If the treants couldn't go face then star fall is a better card.

    Starfall is the better card assuming you're sending all three Treants into three different targets.

    If you're sending them into 1-2 targets, ehhh? I've used FoN to kill 6 health minions before. But like Variable said, it never feels good. Even if it's the right play, even if it's the only play, it never feels good.

    Either way, I'm not sure there's a way to nerf FoN without completely killing it. And, honestly, maybe that's okay.

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    I have Fon'd to kill an azure drake and a 3/2 more times than I can count on one hand

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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    you create a 2/2 minion that does at end of turn that reads "your charge minions have +1 attack"
    I wonder if we will ever get tired of this joke. Probably not.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    you create a 2/2 minion that does at end of turn that reads "your charge minions have +1 attack"
    I wonder if we will ever get tired of this joke. Probably not.

    esports

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    What I don't understand about the switch is why they're removing Naxx entirely. Even if you can't use the cards in standard, I still feel that either for completionist sake or just some fun to be had with the adventure, it'd still be worth keeping available.

    To get better value from people who want rares epics and legendaries in adventures. Seven packs will be very lucky to get you anywhere near the dust to make a legendary.

  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    Grobian wrote: »
    I haven't heard a proposed change to FoN that wouldn't completely kill the card. I don't know if blizzard minds, though.

    Edit : If the treants couldn't go face then star fall is a better card.

    What about instead of 3 2/2s You get 2 3/3s? Same total stats, but less roar damage and also if you have to deal with taunt, that's one less card on face.

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    also, don't think secrets are going away because of mad scientist not being in modern

    hunter secrets are still powerful enough to be run on their own, just not in face hunter

    mage will probably cut secrets entirely tho

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    Dibby
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Freeze will still runs its secrets.

    Control would run Duplicate still if it weren't also disappearing.

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  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    I would be surprised if they didn't include secret cards in the expansion that are better than Kirin Tor while also not being completely broken like mad scientist. God I am so hyped for the Naxx and GvG bullshit to go away.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    IMHO it would probably be a good idea to move some of the cards that they phase out into classic instead. I mean, they're completely gutting any remaining mech cards by killing mech synergy.
    Cards like Recombobulator, Enhance-o-mechano and Blingtron are also cards that have a superunique effect that isn't overpowered but it's simply a ton of fun in some decks.
    Antique healbot will probably be missed, but on the other hand there are several cards that have similar purpose without being pretty OP.

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  • DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    I would rather they just do a Core Set 2016 pack which is like 90% of the classic cards (it would be nice to just not having stuff like Alexstraza, Ysera, Archmage Antonidas for a year and see what the meta looks like) and a smattering of the cards being rotated out. And next year they can do Core Set 2017 with maybe 20% different cards. It also has the benefit in that it allows new players to still be able to get some of the rotated out cards in packs, but only for that year, and maybe a future year down the line. It might actually address a lot of the complaints people are having about the removal of old sets from the store while actually keeping Standard meta really dynamic by nulling certain deck archetypes relying on some key cards.

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  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Core Sets are the ideal imo but that's also much more complicated than what they want I think.

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  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    Man, yknow, a really easy nerf to Force of Nature would be to just make it so the Treants can't attack the enemy Hero.

    Boom. Done.

    Would FoN be worth running at that point? Maybe as a one-of? Eh, prolly not. I dunno, I mean I've gotten mileage out of using FoN to clear board before. It is useful. But it also can only be done if you're ahead, I guess. But at the same time, you're able to do that knowing you have a 2nd copy specifically for the combo. I'm not entirely sure running a single FoN as a board-cleary kinda deal would be worthwhile.

    Either way, let's assume they completely nuke FoN from orbit and it's no longer worth running. I think that'd be fine. Savage Roar is still a game ender if you have even a semblance of a board presence.

    If they actually went with that, the trees would have to be bigger or FoN noticeably cheaper, at which point it might be okay.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

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