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Humanity Industry Humanism Humanitarianism and the Incurrence of a Cruelty Debt

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    JebusUD wrote: »
    How dank are your nugs, BranniganSepp

    I've long since become one with the dank nugs. Kinda like Obelix and the Gaul's magic potion. However, I do not actively partake in the nug at this time, though just like Obelix, I do crave its magic still. Why do you ask?

    Are you serious?

    It's because the OP is a chain of concepts seemingly arbitrarily strung together followed by an assertion that there will be some return to balance.

    It's extremely unclear. No one is even sure what you are really talking about.

    That's why the thread is a pile of jokes instead of a real discussion.

    What is this thread about? Environmental exploitation destroying the environment? Animal exploitation? Some idea of the folly of charity? The hubris of man? Karma? Gaia? Whether the dichotomy of a balance even applies? Timecube?

    Who the fuck knows?

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    JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Why does the moon get to be made of cheese when the earth is made of dirt

    We paid or cruelty debt to the moon and now we only get to stare and salivate. Permemently contemplating on how much cheese we wasted. Maybe we shouldn't have stole fire from the gods.

    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    let's go back to a religious concept of the world where we have to appease the gods so they won't fucking kill us at sea

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Why does the moon get to be made of cheese when the earth is made of dirt

    Lizards can't live in cheese
    Says you

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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    I'm not high, I'm just a goose

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    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    Luckily, debt is also a product of human behavior that does not exist outside of our social experiences, so unless we decide that we do, no, we will not.

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Luckily, debt is also a product of human behavior that does not exist outside of our social experiences, so unless we decide that we do, no, we will not.
    So debt is a social construct?

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    The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    let's go back to a religious concept of the world where we have to appease the gods so they won't fucking kill us at sea

    nuke the whales

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Luckily, debt is also a product of human behavior that does not exist outside of our social experiences, so unless we decide that we do, no, we will not.
    So debt is a social construct?

    Everything from the moment humanity picked up the first club has been a social construct.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    let's go back to a religious concept of the world where we have to appease the gods so they won't fucking kill us at sea

    nuke the whales

    Weaponize them. A better future through genetically engineered super whales.

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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Luckily, debt is also a product of human behavior that does not exist outside of our social experiences, so unless we decide that we do, no, we will not.
    So debt is a social construct?

    Everything from the moment humanity picked up the first club has been a social construct.
    I'd say even before that.

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    JebusUDJebusUD Adventure! Candy IslandRegistered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Luckily, debt is also a product of human behavior that does not exist outside of our social experiences, so unless we decide that we do, no, we will not.
    So debt is a social construct?

    All you have to do to get out of it is destroy society!

    and I wonder about my neighbors even though I don't have them
    but they're listening to every word I say
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    Speed RacerSpeed Racer Scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratch scritch scratchRegistered User regular
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Luckily, debt is also a product of human behavior that does not exist outside of our social experiences, so unless we decide that we do, no, we will not.
    So debt is a social construct?

    All you have to do to get out of it is destroy society!

    Yeah yeah yeah we've all seen fight club

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    JebusUD wrote: »
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Luckily, debt is also a product of human behavior that does not exist outside of our social experiences, so unless we decide that we do, no, we will not.
    So debt is a social construct?

    All you have to do to get out of it is destroy society!
    Sounds easier than paying off student loans tbh

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    KadithKadith Registered User regular
    Oh am I late for the philosophy 101 course.

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    PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Mmm, potatable water.

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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    I post therefore I am.

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    KadithKadith Registered User regular
    Wait what do you mean today is the final?

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Kadith wrote: »
    Wait what do you mean today is the final?

    For the oral portion, remember that the "U" in TIMECUBE is pronounced as a silent scream.

    Phillishere on
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    MorivethMoriveth BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWNRegistered User regular
    I already cut my dick off for unrelated reasons so the OP doesn't apply to me

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    BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    edited February 2016
    JebusUD wrote: »
    How dank are your nugs, BranniganSepp

    I've long since become one with the dank nugs. Kinda like Obelix and the Gaul's magic potion. However, I do not actively partake in the nug at this time, though just like Obelix, I do crave its magic still. Why do you ask?

    Are you serious?

    It's because the OP is a chain of concepts seemingly arbitrarily strung together followed by an assertion that there will be some return to balance.

    It's extremely unclear. No one is even sure what you are really talking about.

    That's why the thread is a pile of jokes instead of a real discussion.

    What is this thread about? Environmental exploitation destroying the environment? Animal exploitation? Some idea of the folly of charity? The hubris of man? Karma? Gaia? Whether the dichotomy of a balance even applies? Timecube?

    Who the fuck knows?

    The thread is about what I perceive us to be now - industrialized humanists with humanitarian beliefs, driven by our base natures - our growth as a species, and how that affects everything around us, and what will become of us, once we reach limiting factors that cannot be overcome by people like us. It's about what we might become, if this way of life fails us.

    I infer that who we are is destined to fail, at the very least idiologically. I want you to imagine what a post-humanist post-humanitarian society would be like. How it would think and act. I infer that it will be more cruel and discriminatory than it already is. That human life might no longer be considered a universal right. That kindness and sympathy and benevolence amongst our kind might prove not to be a sustainable moral code, and therefor be abandoned, not only in deed, as it in many ways already is, but openly and steadfast, and for just as valid reasons as there were for being humanists and humanitarians before. As a species, we never actually acted particularly humanitarian, despite our ideals. Eventually, we might put the world we live in - and the world we want to build - before personal selfish goals and altruistic ideals. We might start to forcibly act as a species, rather than as loosely organized persons, and boldly march into the future together - at least those that make the cut.

    What I'd like you to do is to accept the former hypothesis - that Humanity as it is will fail - and to discuss what might become of our species thereafter. What do you think will become of us, if we fail? Of course the OP is very broad, because I do not pretend to know why exactly we might fail, nor do I pretend to know what will become of us with any certainty. This is but an exercise in imagination. To allow yourself to think the unthinkable. To enjoy yourself in coming up with what is essentially pure future fiction. To share your imagination with me. Don't be afraid to look foolish. It's fun. Trust me.

    BranniganSepp on
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    There is biological basis for empathy towards other humans as well

    That's why exploitation is sustained by keeping it out of sight

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    DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Who is us? There is no unified human monoculture.

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    strong social relations are a huge survival advantage in a large variety of different environments, including perhaps a post apocalyptic earth

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Dex Dynamo wrote: »
    they say chewbacca travelled with han solo because of a life debt but i bet he still would even if the life debt was not on the table

    Chewbacca will do literally anything to avoid spending time with his awful family

    Further supporting this and Speed Racer, his awful family clearly sets the forbidden interspecies love precedent

    What's this about @Speed Racer and interspecies love?

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    BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Who is us? There is no unified human monoculture.

    The internet itself is strong evidence to the contrary. Humanity is less of a hollow concept now than ever. Even if Humanity doesn't actually exist, it's reasonable to believe that it one day actually might exist. That's the us I'm talking about.

    BranniganSepp on
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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Who is us? There is no unified human monoculture.

    The internet itself is strong evidence to the contrary.

    You speak only English, right

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    There is biological basis for empathy towards other humans as well

    That's why exploitation is sustained by keeping it out of sight

    Animal studies are increasingly pointing to a conclusion that empathy is universal among mammals and present in at least some of the more intelligent birds. That has interesting and disturbing implications for the universality of sentience.

    Reminds of The Lion King, where everybody but the hyenas were surprisingly cool with their places on the food chain. Or Duncan the Wonder Dog.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Huh

    Maybe I should watch this thing

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Paladin wrote: »
    Why does the moon get to be made of cheese when the earth is made of dirt

    Lizards can't live in cheese

    This is an exceptionally good point and well made

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

    https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
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    BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    Who is us? There is no unified human monoculture.

    The internet itself is strong evidence to the contrary.

    You speak only English, right

    Que?

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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    Who is us? There is no unified human monoculture.

    The internet itself is strong evidence to the contrary. Humanity is less of a hollow concept now than ever. Even if Humanity doesn't actually exist, it's reasonable to believe that it one day actually might exist. That's the us I'm talking about.

    So your whole argument is based on something that doesn't exist, but you think will one day? So one day, after the other one day, something might happen, and maybe it'll be bad?

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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    humanity could exist if there were like 150 total humans in the world and they all lived in one place

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    BranniganSeppBranniganSepp Swiss Burrito Enthusiast PSN: ExMaloBonumRegistered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Peen wrote: »
    Who is us? There is no unified human monoculture.

    The internet itself is strong evidence to the contrary. Humanity is less of a hollow concept now than ever. Even if Humanity doesn't actually exist, it's reasonable to believe that it one day actually might exist. That's the us I'm talking about.

    So your whole argument is based on something that doesn't exist, but you think will one day? So one day, after the other one day, something might happen, and maybe it'll be bad?

    Humanity is an established concept upon which one can and does have discussions, and a whole lot more. Actually, most nations' constitutions are made of fabric cut straight from the grand idea that is Humanity. The United Nations is what I would call an enterprise built to further the notion of Humanity. Many such organisations exist.

    Humanity is not any different than the idea of any nation. Humanity exists as much as for example America exists. First and foremost, it's in your head. A nation is only real because it's real in our heads. It's reality not made of natural fact, but of fabrication.

    It's like you are being contrarian for the sake of it.

    BranniganSepp on
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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    humanity could exist if there were like 150 total humans in the world and they all lived in one place

    Rapid and extreme global population would be a way out of a lot of our current predicaments. I don't recommend it, though.

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    humanity could exist if there were like 150 total humans in the world and they all lived in one place

    God it would suck though, lord above

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

    https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
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    MachwingMachwing It looks like a harmless old computer, doesn't it? Left in this cave to rot ... or to flower!Registered User regular
    god damn papists

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited February 2016
    Hobnail wrote: »
    -Tal wrote: »
    humanity could exist if there were like 150 total humans in the world and they all lived in one place

    God it would suck though, lord above

    Current estimates put the minimum viable population of humanity, barring some sci-fi tech, at about 4,100 people. Below that and you get generations of incest mutants lurching toward extinction.

    Phillishere on
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    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    Peen wrote: »
    Who is us? There is no unified human monoculture.

    The internet itself is strong evidence to the contrary. Humanity is less of a hollow concept now than ever. Even if Humanity doesn't actually exist, it's reasonable to believe that it one day actually might exist. That's the us I'm talking about.

    So your whole argument is based on something that doesn't exist, but you think will one day? So one day, after the other one day, something might happen, and maybe it'll be bad?

    Humanity is an established concept upon which one can and does have discussions, and a whole lot more. Actually, most nations' constitutions are made of fabric cut straight from the grand idea that is Humanity. The United Nations is what I would call an enterprise built to further the notion of Humanity. Many such organisations exist.

    Humanity is not any different than the idea of any nation. Humanity exists as much as for example America exists. First and foremost, it's in your head. A nation is only real because it's real in our heads. It's reality not made of natural fact, but of fabrication.

    It's like you are being contrarian for the sake of it.

    hmmmmm yes, let's go with that

    your argument is indeed flawless and fascinating.

This discussion has been closed.