3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
At the risk of sounding like a dick, if you played 30+ hours and rushed through the game to hit end game when it had been out for 4 days, you sort of shot yourself in the foot. Most people don't have the time to do that. I've played 2 or 3 hours a night and I'm only level 11, I might hit 30 by the end of the weekend but probably not.
Rushing to end game usually turns out this way, you have to wait while everyone who didn't have that time to spend on the game catches up.
When I hit 30 I'm going to do the only sensible thing: Make a new level 1 character, enter the dark zone, and position myself exclusively at extraction points plinking at other, much higher level players for comedic value with my voice chat on screaming for the death of all comers. With my handgun. Or maybe just the melee attack.
I may even change my Uplay name to level1rogueagentpleaseletmekillyou.
Considering how fast they've responded to issues, I'm not too concerned with the Phoenix Credit nerf. It makes sense to turn that valve off until they can figure out the best flow for the player base at endgame. And since they have had such fast turnaround, I trust they'll get it right quick enough.
That's cool, and I totally understand both of you.
There's just nothing for me to do now. There's no point in the DZ at all anymore, and Challenge mode is hopelessly broken until more people hit 30 and get geared up enough to do it, which will now take a significantly longer amount of time.
So I guess I just log out and wait for a few weeks.
I mean, yeah...
You were level 30 on like day 2. You beat the game. You did it. When you originally posted about being level 30 I was just waiting for the first time you'd post to complain there wasn't enough content.
I'm not complaining about the amount of content though. Please give what I'm saying an honest read, because it's a legit problem for everyone once they do get there.
I'm very specifically saying that they've killed their own endgame content by making the DZ stuff useless.
DZ vendors and credits give gear that is way behind the curve for the rank at which you attain it. Phoenix Credits were the only viable option for attaining actually useful gear at a time when you could use it. It's not about the speed at which I got there or not having anything to do at max level. There's plenty to do, it just doesn't actually help you after you've gotten a round of purple equipment from DZ drops.
As of right now, when you hit 30, you go to the DZ and start killing mobs for purple drops. By the time you're fully kitted out in these, you're probably rank 15 or so. This makes DZ credits and vendors useless, as they only unlock gear that is probably worse than what you've got at ranks 30 and 50.
Before, you could be earning Phoenix Credits the whole time in the DZ and applying those to gear advancement. The rate at which they dish them out now is just too glacial.
At the risk of sounding like a dick, if you played 30+ hours and rushed through the game to hit end game when it had been out for 4 days, you sort of shot yourself in the foot. Most people don't have the time to do that. I've played 2 or 3 hours a night and I'm only level 11, I might hit 30 by the end of the weekend but probably not.
Rushing to end game usually turns out this way, you have to wait while everyone who didn't have that time to spend on the game catches up.
I don't necessarily disagree, there just used to be a very viable solo endgame here that I enjoyed. Now it's a lot less so, and gated by terrible dailies, which is all too familiar and a bummer.
At the risk of sounding like a dick, if you played 30+ hours and rushed through the game to hit end game when it had been out for 4 days, you sort of shot yourself in the foot. Most people don't have the time to do that. I've played 2 or 3 hours a night and I'm only level 11, I might hit 30 by the end of the weekend but probably not.
Rushing to end game usually turns out this way, you have to wait while everyone who didn't have that time to spend on the game catches up.
This is assuming the new flow of currency will actually be balanced out. As it stands, it sounds shitty and doesn't really matter when you hit level 30.
I mean, we're all making assumptions here. We're assuming this is a temporary fix to stem the potential deluge of endgame content propagating through the community so early. But maybe this is exactly what they conceive the right rate to be.
I'm only level 19 right now but no matter when I hit 30, what HallowedFaith describes doesn't sound very fun, whether I hit 30 tomorrow or a month from now.
so is this... kinda similar to the mass effect 3 multiplayer? I've been keeping an eye out for something to scratch that itch for a while, but nothing seems to quite fit the bill
I haven't watched a ton of gameplay so far, but it seems oddly slow paced?
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Uhm. The DZ brackets are horseshit. If you're level 30 you should be phased with level 30s. There was a level 14/30 running around gunning all folks down because hey my level 16 only does 200 damage to you. Fun.
I'm still in the noob phase of undestanding how the DZ works but i thought DZ rank had no effect on how tough you were?
like you should have been at a power advantage over that level 14?
I'm pretty sure the two numbers were 14/30. I feel like his DZ level was 30 because I hovered over the guy and I was like "Nah not worried about him." He obviously knew he had nothing to worry about taking on a group of four of us. I mean the 14 superior gear is likely no slouch compared to 16 greens/blues and if he's min/max'd. . ./shrug.
Then there was the sting of one of my teammates rightly looking for revenge and not realizing his rogue level has dropped off in seconds and then making US go rogue dying and then losing my DZ keys (somehow I now have none despite having bought the three pack).
I also wish there was some kind of diversionary, riskless PvP, like The Crucible. Maybe it wouldn't make sense in the canon, I dunno. Maybe they could make it a game within a game. Add a Simulator Wing where agents can Deathmatch each other and play CTF without the risk of losing levels/rank or anything.
I rather mislike the idea of losing levels. I consider that an archaic MMO concept that died with EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI.
At the risk of sounding like a dick, if you played 30+ hours and rushed through the game to hit end game when it had been out for 4 days, you sort of shot yourself in the foot. Most people don't have the time to do that. I've played 2 or 3 hours a night and I'm only level 11, I might hit 30 by the end of the weekend but probably not.
Rushing to end game usually turns out this way, you have to wait while everyone who didn't have that time to spend on the game catches up.
This is assuming the new flow of currency will actually be balanced out. As it stands, it sounds shitty and doesn't really matter when you hit level 30.
I mean, we're all making assumptions here. We're assuming this is a temporary fix to stem the potential deluge of endgame content propagating through the community so early. But maybe this is exactly what they conceive the right rate to be.
I'm only level 19 right now but no matter when I hit 30, what HallowedFaith describes doesn't sound very fun, whether I hit 30 tomorrow or a month from now.
I should also clarify that you can still hit about 30PC a day with the Hard difficulty dailies, which definitely isn't bad if you add in the Challenge mode eventually for another 50. In fact, that's great once it becomes viable.
The route to Challenge mode being attainable for people was the Dark Zone, though, and I have no idea how that's going to shake out now. I just know that I could work on gearing myself up via the DZ and now the only reason I would ever go in there is for shits and giggles. The DZ is utterly useless to players right now once they've gotten their first round of good purples out of it, which really doesn't take long.
At the risk of sounding like a dick, if you played 30+ hours and rushed through the game to hit end game when it had been out for 4 days, you sort of shot yourself in the foot. Most people don't have the time to do that. I've played 2 or 3 hours a night and I'm only level 11, I might hit 30 by the end of the weekend but probably not.
Rushing to end game usually turns out this way, you have to wait while everyone who didn't have that time to spend on the game catches up.
This is assuming the new flow of currency will actually be balanced out. As it stands, it sounds shitty and doesn't really matter when you hit level 30.
I mean, we're all making assumptions here. We're assuming this is a temporary fix to stem the potential deluge of endgame content propagating through the community so early. But maybe this is exactly what they conceive the right rate to be.
I'm only level 19 right now but no matter when I hit 30, what HallowedFaith describes doesn't sound very fun, whether I hit 30 tomorrow or a month from now.
I should also clarify that you can still hit about 30PC a day with the Hard difficulty dailies, which definitely isn't bad if you add in the Challenge mode eventually for another 50. In fact, that's great once it becomes viable.
The route to Challenge mode being attainable for people was the Dark Zone, though, and I have no idea how that's going to shake out now. I just know that I could work on gearing myself up via the DZ and now the only reason I would ever go in there is for shits and giggles. The DZ is utterly useless to players right now once they've gotten their first round of good purples out of it, which really doesn't take long.
Having to grind for two days for 1 piece of high end gear frankly sounds like shit to me.
Based on what you just said: 30+50 currency potential per day, right? Someone else said a decent piece of high end gear costs 90-160. That means a minimum of two days for one piece of high end gear, unless I am misunderstanding something.
I don't think time gating in this fashion is a good design trait. I'm not sure what a better solution is. Other methods of lateral advancement, maybe, to spread endgame advancement so that it's not so pronounced when someone does put a lot of time and effort into it.
I think the main problem here is that MMO developers still haven't figured out a good way to balance a single community that includes casuals, powergamers/timesinkers, and those that sit somewhere in the middle. I have no idea what the solution is but this isn't it.
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
+2
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Uhm. The DZ brackets are horseshit. If you're level 30 you should be phased with level 30s. There was a level 14/30 running around gunning all folks down because hey my level 16 only does 200 damage to you. Fun.
I'm still in the noob phase of undestanding how the DZ works but i thought DZ rank had no effect on how tough you were?
like you should have been at a power advantage over that level 14?
I'm pretty sure the two numbers were 14/30. I feel like his DZ level was 30 because I hovered over the guy and I was like "Nah not worried about him." He obviously knew he had nothing to worry about taking on a group of four of us. I mean the 14 superior gear is likely no slouch compared to 16 greens/blues and if he's min/max'd. . ./shrug.
Then there was the sting of one of my teammates rightly looking for revenge and not realizing his rogue level has dropped off in seconds and then making US go rogue dying and then losing my DZ keys (somehow I now have none despite having bought the three pack).
A given blue is equivalent to a green about 4 levels up. So if he's rocking full purples and you're in mixed greens/blues, then yes even at Level 14 he could have better gear than you at 16. And if he's DZ30, he's been playing in there for *awhile*.
If he was DZ29 you would have probably killed him assuming you aren't potatoes. The big thing is that he hit DZ30 and is able to purchase items from the DZ vendors again.
I finally got a Vector BP and now I have a Vector! Cosmetics over all!
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Re: late game balance, I'm almost sure this isn't the final implementation, they're just trying to dial it in now that players are actually hitting end game and they can see what it looks like.
I also wish there was some kind of diversionary, riskless PvP, like The Crucible. Maybe it wouldn't make sense in the canon, I dunno. Maybe they could make it a game within a game. Add a Simulator Wing where agents can Deathmatch each other and play CTF without the risk of losing levels/rank or anything.
I rather mislike the idea of losing levels. I consider that an archaic MMO concept that died with EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI.
Yea punishing players who don't go rogue is kind of pants. I mean the XP lose isn't so massive; the currency lose is what I think is kind of excessive.
Right now the dark zone is pretty fun at level 30, people running around hunting rares and a very low level of dickishness. My worry is that in a week or two we are going to be seeing the place filled with roaming griefer squads shitting over new players and essentially turning the whole experience into the toxic wasteland the environment depicts.
I'm level 14/14. I have several buddies I'd normally play with who are 20, so they're gone. I'll see them again at cap. Then I have two buddies who were level 8 today. So I spent my morning rerunning old missions and helping them get to 12, so we could do some DZ together. Now, I don't mind redoing old content with them to no benefit to myself, but it's sort of disappointing that I have to be incredibly careful not to accidentally level to 15, because then I'd be back in between my two friend groups and unable to DZ with either again.
I'm level 14/14. I have several buddies I'd normally play with who are 20, so they're gone. I'll see them again at cap. Then I have two buddies who were level 8 today. So I spent my morning rerunning old missions and helping them get to 12, so we could do some DZ together. Now, I don't mind redoing old content with them tp no benefit to myself, but it's sort of disappointing that I have to be incredibly careful not to accidentally level to 15, because then I'd be back in between my two friend groups and unable to DZ with either again.
Bluuuugh.
I would kill to be able to level myself down and just join random groups with people and do content over and over. COH Sidekick system, where art thou?
+4
Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
I had an M60 with a 30% mag extension last night which allowed me to shoot for days. Then I found a blue L86 with a fair bit more damage so I switched over. Then I learned that the L86 has a recoil pattern that climbs ladders faster than any agent I've seen and now I'm just wishing for a newer M60 to get my groove back. Running a Scar-L in the mean time.
The simultaneously most exciting AND dumbest thing @Entaru and @Midnight_god got up to with me today was some DZ shenanigans. We were extracting at a spot where we'd seen some rogue activity. This one guy and his friend both kept trying their hardest to bait us. One was sniping from the gas station roof, and the other would take pistol pops, never enough to send them rogue but always annoying. Then, one of the little shits started diving in front of our bullets as we fended off the NPC attack. We avoided being baited and extracted our gear, then said, "Well... why not? Let's kill 'em."
So we murdered one of them and ran off to try to get the timer to cool. We accidentally ended up down a dead end, and now five players are coming after us. We hold them off twice in waves, but Midnight goes down and of course our timer isn't coming off because we're being forced to fight the whole time. We died, lost credits, lost stuff, but it felt good to go down at a 3:1 ratio of kills against the mooks.
Uhm. The DZ brackets are horseshit. If you're level 30 you should be phased with level 30s. There was a level 14/30 running around gunning all folks down because hey my level 16 only does 200 damage to you. Fun.
I'm still in the noob phase of undestanding how the DZ works but i thought DZ rank had no effect on how tough you were?
like you should have been at a power advantage over that level 14?
I'm pretty sure the two numbers were 14/30. I feel like his DZ level was 30 because I hovered over the guy and I was like "Nah not worried about him." He obviously knew he had nothing to worry about taking on a group of four of us. I mean the 14 superior gear is likely no slouch compared to 16 greens/blues and if he's min/max'd. . ./shrug.
Then there was the sting of one of my teammates rightly looking for revenge and not realizing his rogue level has dropped off in seconds and then making US go rogue dying and then losing my DZ keys (somehow I now have none despite having bought the three pack).
You drop your keys along with the rest of your stuff when you die. They can be looted. None of them are safe.
This is why I haven't claimed the three pack until I know I'm going to be going in with a team.
Considering how fast they've responded to issues, I'm not too concerned with the Phoenix Credit nerf. It makes sense to turn that valve off until they can figure out the best flow for the player base at endgame. And since they have had such fast turnaround, I trust they'll get it right quick enough.
That's cool, and I totally understand both of you.
There's just nothing for me to do now. There's no point in the DZ at all anymore, and Challenge mode is hopelessly broken until more people hit 30 and get geared up enough to do it, which will now take a significantly longer amount of time.
So I guess I just log out and wait for a few weeks.
I mean, yeah...
You were level 30 on like day 2. You beat the game. You did it. When you originally posted about being level 30 I was just waiting for the first time you'd post to complain there wasn't enough content.
I'm not complaining about the amount of content though. Please give what I'm saying an honest read, because it's a legit problem for everyone once they do get there.
I'm very specifically saying that they've killed their own endgame content by making the DZ stuff useless.
DZ vendors and credits give gear that is way behind the curve for the rank at which you attain it. Phoenix Credits were the only viable option for attaining actually useful gear at a time when you could use it. It's not about the speed at which I got there or not having anything to do at max level. There's plenty to do, it just doesn't actually help you after you've gotten a round of purple equipment from DZ drops.
As of right now, when you hit 30, you go to the DZ and start killing mobs for purple drops. By the time you're fully kitted out in these, you're probably rank 15 or so. This makes DZ credits and vendors useless, as they only unlock gear that is probably worse than what you've got at ranks 30 and 50.
Before, you could be earning Phoenix Credits the whole time in the DZ and applying those to gear advancement. The rate at which they dish them out now is just too glacial.
So, these sound like legitimate issues to me, but I don't think turning up the faucet on Phoenix Credits would do anything more than push your issue back a few days. You'd have a fun few days in the Dark Zone, get all your PC gear, and then the Phoenix Credits hit the same level of uselessness as you've described Dark Zone Credits, right? This is the problem with MMOs or really anything that attempts to have the concept of a persistent "end game", and I don't think a solution really exists; the best attempts at tackling this inevitable problem are just the ones that delay it most gracefully.
So, so far I've kinda being entirely underwhelmed by all the security wing abilities except for regen smart cover and even that feels over shadowed by the aid station's similar upgrade.
Someone convince me on beefy men considering gear keeps giving me tons of stamina and it feels entirely useless when you still die in a second of exposure.
Here's a problem all of your ganging up on Croaker need to think about.
Game has been out for four days, true. I can GUARANTEE you that the hardcore people hit 30, and have all of the gear they will ever want or at least the blueprints to create them. Wanna know what suddenly turning a trickle of end-game currency into a drip will do now? They will dominate in the Dark Zone, period. People will walk in all bright eyed in their blues and purples ready to tackle the DZ, and get gunned down by some jerk-ass who rushed to cap specifically to get the best gear to do this.
All this sort of change does is benefit those who did it first. It always ends up like that in games which are Semi-Massively/Massively Multiplayer, people who jumped on an "exploit" or a "trick" are rewarded beyond belief and then it gets stomped into the ground leaving no one able to catch up.
Considering how fast they've responded to issues, I'm not too concerned with the Phoenix Credit nerf. It makes sense to turn that valve off until they can figure out the best flow for the player base at endgame. And since they have had such fast turnaround, I trust they'll get it right quick enough.
That's cool, and I totally understand both of you.
There's just nothing for me to do now. There's no point in the DZ at all anymore, and Challenge mode is hopelessly broken until more people hit 30 and get geared up enough to do it, which will now take a significantly longer amount of time.
So I guess I just log out and wait for a few weeks.
I mean, yeah...
You were level 30 on like day 2. You beat the game. You did it. When you originally posted about being level 30 I was just waiting for the first time you'd post to complain there wasn't enough content.
I'm not complaining about the amount of content though. Please give what I'm saying an honest read, because it's a legit problem for everyone once they do get there.
I'm very specifically saying that they've killed their own endgame content by making the DZ stuff useless.
DZ vendors and credits give gear that is way behind the curve for the rank at which you attain it. Phoenix Credits were the only viable option for attaining actually useful gear at a time when you could use it. It's not about the speed at which I got there or not having anything to do at max level. There's plenty to do, it just doesn't actually help you after you've gotten a round of purple equipment from DZ drops.
As of right now, when you hit 30, you go to the DZ and start killing mobs for purple drops. By the time you're fully kitted out in these, you're probably rank 15 or so. This makes DZ credits and vendors useless, as they only unlock gear that is probably worse than what you've got at ranks 30 and 50.
Before, you could be earning Phoenix Credits the whole time in the DZ and applying those to gear advancement. The rate at which they dish them out now is just too glacial.
So, these sound like legitimate issues to me, but I don't think turning up the faucet on Phoenix Credits would do anything more than push your issue back a few days. You'd have a fun few days in the Dark Zone, get all your PC gear, and then the Phoenix Credits hit the same level of uselessness as you've described Dark Zone Credits, right? This is the problem with MMOs or really anything that attempts to have the concept of a persistent "end game", and I don't think a solution really exists; the best attempts at tackling this inevitable problem are just the ones that delay it most gracefully.
Good point!
I'm not arguing that they shouldn't have changed the drop rate, just that this change from 10-15 to 1-3 is far too dramatic a shift and it basically makes the entire DZ pointless at 30. There's just no reason to go there at all right now. The drops aren't good, the risk/reward for going Rogue is way out of whack, and the higher difficulty zones don't reward players for pushing them except by giving access to vendors that sell stuff you no longer need.
Another thing to note about Phoenix Credits and their current rate:
It costs *30* Phoenix Credits to attempt a stat re-roll on a high end item. This cost goes up as you reroll on the same item VERY dramatically. Two rerolls and you're at about 75. So no, Phoenix Credits and their gear are unlikely to ever reach the same level of uselessness as DZ currency, simply because rerolls and different build optimizations would take a very long time to exhaust your supply. As of right now, you'd have to blow far more than an entire daily haul to reroll on a single item.
If they had swung the pendulum less in the opposite direction, or not simultaneously nerfed the already abysmal yellow drop rate, or tweaked Challenge matchmaking to check appropriate gear levels it would have been way less awful. Maybe that stuff is coming or changing and the hotfix just couldn't address them. I don't know. All I know is that a viable, enjoyable endgame option is presently MIA and the DZ, where I was having the most fun, is pointless.
Uhm. The DZ brackets are horseshit. If you're level 30 you should be phased with level 30s. There was a level 14/30 running around gunning all folks down because hey my level 16 only does 200 damage to you. Fun.
I'm still in the noob phase of undestanding how the DZ works but i thought DZ rank had no effect on how tough you were?
like you should have been at a power advantage over that level 14?
I'm pretty sure the two numbers were 14/30. I feel like his DZ level was 30 because I hovered over the guy and I was like "Nah not worried about him." He obviously knew he had nothing to worry about taking on a group of four of us. I mean the 14 superior gear is likely no slouch compared to 16 greens/blues and if he's min/max'd. . ./shrug.
Then there was the sting of one of my teammates rightly looking for revenge and not realizing his rogue level has dropped off in seconds and then making US go rogue dying and then losing my DZ keys (somehow I now have none despite having bought the three pack).
You drop your keys along with the rest of your stuff when you die. They can be looted. None of them are safe.
This is why I haven't claimed the three pack until I know I'm going to be going in with a team.
I wish I had known that before claiming my items. I didn't. Of course you figure I'll lose my gear and I'm OK with that, shit like that though that you're just carrying and not understanding how rare they are. . .ugh.
I mostly wish the timer was more severe honestly. I mean this should be a big deal, you're going rogue against the efforts of your agency to beat back this virus. Kill another agent. Time out mister. So you in 30 seconds.
Here's a problem all of your ganging up on Croaker need to think about.
Game has been out for four days, true. I can GUARANTEE you that the hardcore people hit 30, and have all of the gear they will ever want or at least the blueprints to create them. Wanna know what suddenly turning a trickle of end-game currency into a drip will do now? They will dominate in the Dark Zone, period. People will walk in all bright eyed in their blues and purples ready to tackle the DZ, and get gunned down by some jerk-ass who rushed to cap specifically to get the best gear to do this.
All this sort of change does is benefit those who did it first. It always ends up like that in games which are Semi-Massively/Massively Multiplayer, people who jumped on an "exploit" or a "trick" are rewarded beyond belief and then it gets stomped into the ground leaving no one able to catch up.
If the nerf happened maybe a week or so after? Sure.
Four days? I doubt it. Not saying jumping on him is a good thing... but I think you're overstating the majestic law here.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Uhm. The DZ brackets are horseshit. If you're level 30 you should be phased with level 30s. There was a level 14/30 running around gunning all folks down because hey my level 16 only does 200 damage to you. Fun.
I'm still in the noob phase of undestanding how the DZ works but i thought DZ rank had no effect on how tough you were?
like you should have been at a power advantage over that level 14?
I'm pretty sure the two numbers were 14/30. I feel like his DZ level was 30 because I hovered over the guy and I was like "Nah not worried about him." He obviously knew he had nothing to worry about taking on a group of four of us. I mean the 14 superior gear is likely no slouch compared to 16 greens/blues and if he's min/max'd. . ./shrug.
Then there was the sting of one of my teammates rightly looking for revenge and not realizing his rogue level has dropped off in seconds and then making US go rogue dying and then losing my DZ keys (somehow I now have none despite having bought the three pack).
You drop your keys along with the rest of your stuff when you die. They can be looted. None of them are safe.
This is why I haven't claimed the three pack until I know I'm going to be going in with a team.
This is exactly what I've done (held off on redeeming the triple-pack)...but somehow, I've still managed to loot three DZ keys that I have no intention of using (until I'm in a group). I kind of wish I could just stuff those keys into my stash...but, oh well.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Here's a problem all of your ganging up on Croaker need to think about.
Game has been out for four days, true. I can GUARANTEE you that the hardcore people hit 30, and have all of the gear they will ever want or at least the blueprints to create them. Wanna know what suddenly turning a trickle of end-game currency into a drip will do now? They will dominate in the Dark Zone, period. People will walk in all bright eyed in their blues and purples ready to tackle the DZ, and get gunned down by some jerk-ass who rushed to cap specifically to get the best gear to do this.
All this sort of change does is benefit those who did it first. It always ends up like that in games which are Semi-Massively/Massively Multiplayer, people who jumped on an "exploit" or a "trick" are rewarded beyond belief and then it gets stomped into the ground leaving no one able to catch up.
I already do this when people go Rogue just by having a couple yellow weapons. I chew through HP in the 30 DZ so fast I've been accused of cheating. I'm happy I'm on the other side of the curve, but it really sucks for the people stuck without a nice stash of High End gear already, especially when other players in my position get bored and have nothing left to do but troll the beginner Dark Zones.
I'm WAY ahead of the pom pom beanie curve collection now, too. Up to five!
Here's a problem all of your ganging up on Croaker need to think about.
Game has been out for four days, true. I can GUARANTEE you that the hardcore people hit 30, and have all of the gear they will ever want or at least the blueprints to create them. Wanna know what suddenly turning a trickle of end-game currency into a drip will do now? They will dominate in the Dark Zone, period. People will walk in all bright eyed in their blues and purples ready to tackle the DZ, and get gunned down by some jerk-ass who rushed to cap specifically to get the best gear to do this.
All this sort of change does is benefit those who did it first. It always ends up like that in games which are Semi-Massively/Massively Multiplayer, people who jumped on an "exploit" or a "trick" are rewarded beyond belief and then it gets stomped into the ground leaving no one able to catch up.
I mean, this is going to happen in literally every single game ever unless there is no leveling at all.
So it's kinda irrelevant one way or another? No matter what the situation for anyone who wasn't in that top 1% of gameplay time was going to go into the DZ to get smashed by people who want to do that. It's kinda why I have alot of issues with the new hot gaming idea of letting players decide whether or not to be dicks.
My concern weighs more heavily with the notion that the hotfix may represent an idea that never changes in which the promise of varied pathing options for progression become limited.
The very core of the game is written with the seamlessness of the world in which we go from place to place with party members dropping in and out with great ease. It's designed around playing and building your character how you want.
If this game takes end-game content to the "Dailies or bust" kind of situation I am going to be super super sad. I feel it is one of the laziest game mechanics in which to thread progress through - especially when there are so many other avenues to travel.
Ran DZ for a good long time with @Jagmas and @Felonious Prime (Sidenote, typing that revealed that there is a forumer named Felonoius Monk. Heresy! False prophet!)
Here is what we learned.
When they said that they were upping npc respawn and patrol they weren't fucking kidding.
The mid map park extraction point is a never ending stream of enemies.
The desk in the sport store is crafted of the finest adamantium.
If a skull shotgunner shoots Jag in the face point blank as he is sprinting, it will throw him backwards in a hilarious fashion.
We are an excellent fireteam as long as there is no plan. We survived chaotic ohgodwheredidtheycomefrom??? fights but if we tried to be tactical we all died.
Shooting grenadiers pouches, flamers tanks and gunners ammo boxes will never ever get old.
Lastly if I ever find the motherfucker who stole my purple drop I will hunt him until he quits playing DZ forever.
Had a great time playing with you guys last night. I wish I would have screenshot or recorded that firefight in the sports store, that was epic.
Breakdown from operation "Purple Out":
1) Thelonius drops a purple, his first in fact. The rub being we are on our way out because our stashes are full.
2) The plan is made that he will grenade himself in the subway out of the way and clean up some space, I will stand watch.
3) Thelonius first flash bangs himself, then drops a frag.
4) Before his body even vanishes I get ambushed and killed by rogue agents
5) the purple is gone, as well as a knit scarf I kind of wanted
Hopefully we can get into more shenanigans soon. Although I leveled to 20 after everyone left to try out that purple sniper rifle, so I'll be out of the bracket for a bit until you guys can catch up.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
You know those annoying encounters where you have to pick up 2-3 suitcases and deliver them to a location? I found a neat trick to make them really easy. In those encounters, enemies only spawn at the beginning and each time you deliver a suitcase. So once you clear the initial wave of enemies, pick up each suitcase and drop them right next to the deliver location. You won't have any enemies to contend with while you do this. Then when all the suitcases are on the floor right next to the deliver location, you can deliver them all really quickly and only have to deal with a final wave of enemies.
You know those annoying encounters where you have to pick up 2-3 suitcases and deliver them to a location? I found a neat trick to make them really easy. In those encounters, enemies only spawn at the beginning and each time you deliver a suitcase. So once you clear the initial wave of enemies, pick up each suitcase and drop them right next to the deliver location. You won't have any enemies to contend with while you do this. Then when all the suitcases are on the floor right next to the deliver location, you can deliver them all really quickly and only have to deal with a final wave of enemies.
But that's nowhere near as badass as kicking ass with your sidearm.
Tried to do a level 10 mission I'd already done before. Got into a game with 3 people, one of whom just sat by the entrance and never did anything. Left that one after a couple failed attempts where there were just more dudes than the two of us could handle.
Then got into the same mission again with a full group, things were going really well. Until I eventually went into cover, fell through the floor, ended up stuck in some pipes and then suddenly teleported back to a safe house. The hell? When I went to teleport back to a group member, for some reason the entire party was outside the mission.
We went to go do a bounty I'd already done before, but hey, xp right?
You know those annoying encounters where you have to pick up 2-3 suitcases and deliver them to a location? I found a neat trick to make them really easy. In those encounters, enemies only spawn at the beginning and each time you deliver a suitcase. So once you clear the initial wave of enemies, pick up each suitcase and drop them right next to the deliver location. You won't have any enemies to contend with while you do this. Then when all the suitcases are on the floor right next to the deliver location, you can deliver them all really quickly and only have to deal with a final wave of enemies.
Those JTF people are so damn lazy. "We need help with supplies!" *Runs 10 blocks* "Yeah they are like, just over there."
This is a good trick for doing things solo, I will be sure to pass it on to my lower level companions.
Tried to do a level 10 mission I'd already done before. Got into a game with 3 people, one of whom just sat by the entrance and never did anything. Left that one after a couple failed attempts where there were just more dudes than the two of us could handle.
Then got into the same mission again with a full group, things were going really well. Until I eventually went into cover, fell through the floor, ended up stuck in some pipes and then suddenly teleported back to a safe house. The hell? When I went to teleport back to a group member, for some reason the entire party was outside the mission.
We went to go do a bounty I'd already done before, but hey, xp right?
There's one huge flaw in all the arguments based on the fact that the game has "been out for 4 days."
It's been out closer to 5 days at this point.
Now is actually the time to be careful about making sweeping changes, before you player base is really locked in. Too many wide pendulum swings of the balancing axe and you end up with a fragmented player base that seeds resentment that can echo for a lot longer than the problem exists.
If the game is meaningless to you unless you're filling some kind of bar maybe the game is just meaningless to you*. I understand this is a controversial stance among a lot of RPG players but man this game is way too fun to get hung up on filling bars.
This is tons of fun, the gameplay is fast and deep. There hasn't really been this good a cover shooter before. The AI is great, the difficulty is great, the pvp is fun and nothing feels flat. You post and flank and flush and bunker dudes all over PvE and PvP, even the PvE gameplay is very dynamic with lots of pushes forward and falling back. Missions are essentially horde mode rooms but feel great because there's so much movement and the AI tries to exploit your squad all the time. I play missions and DZ with friends and there's tons of teamplay all the time, which is something shooters typically lack.
My only peeve so far is that during our big DZ evening we had way too few players to fight. Was probably just a shitty instance but man, I'm worth sooo much and you're risking sooo little when I'm in manhunt mode, come get me pubbies. We haven't been able to replicate our ridiculously epic 3vEveryone Last Stand in the beta yet.
*Edit: I mean, most games are dropped after playing 40 hours and considered money well spent but eh.
Posts
Rushing to end game usually turns out this way, you have to wait while everyone who didn't have that time to spend on the game catches up.
I may even change my Uplay name to level1rogueagentpleaseletmekillyou.
I'm not complaining about the amount of content though. Please give what I'm saying an honest read, because it's a legit problem for everyone once they do get there.
I'm very specifically saying that they've killed their own endgame content by making the DZ stuff useless.
DZ vendors and credits give gear that is way behind the curve for the rank at which you attain it. Phoenix Credits were the only viable option for attaining actually useful gear at a time when you could use it. It's not about the speed at which I got there or not having anything to do at max level. There's plenty to do, it just doesn't actually help you after you've gotten a round of purple equipment from DZ drops.
As of right now, when you hit 30, you go to the DZ and start killing mobs for purple drops. By the time you're fully kitted out in these, you're probably rank 15 or so. This makes DZ credits and vendors useless, as they only unlock gear that is probably worse than what you've got at ranks 30 and 50.
Before, you could be earning Phoenix Credits the whole time in the DZ and applying those to gear advancement. The rate at which they dish them out now is just too glacial.
I don't necessarily disagree, there just used to be a very viable solo endgame here that I enjoyed. Now it's a lot less so, and gated by terrible dailies, which is all too familiar and a bummer.
This is assuming the new flow of currency will actually be balanced out. As it stands, it sounds shitty and doesn't really matter when you hit level 30.
I mean, we're all making assumptions here. We're assuming this is a temporary fix to stem the potential deluge of endgame content propagating through the community so early. But maybe this is exactly what they conceive the right rate to be.
I'm only level 19 right now but no matter when I hit 30, what HallowedFaith describes doesn't sound very fun, whether I hit 30 tomorrow or a month from now.
I haven't watched a ton of gameplay so far, but it seems oddly slow paced?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I'm pretty sure the two numbers were 14/30. I feel like his DZ level was 30 because I hovered over the guy and I was like "Nah not worried about him." He obviously knew he had nothing to worry about taking on a group of four of us. I mean the 14 superior gear is likely no slouch compared to 16 greens/blues and if he's min/max'd. . ./shrug.
Then there was the sting of one of my teammates rightly looking for revenge and not realizing his rogue level has dropped off in seconds and then making US go rogue dying and then losing my DZ keys (somehow I now have none despite having bought the three pack).
I rather mislike the idea of losing levels. I consider that an archaic MMO concept that died with EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI.
I should also clarify that you can still hit about 30PC a day with the Hard difficulty dailies, which definitely isn't bad if you add in the Challenge mode eventually for another 50. In fact, that's great once it becomes viable.
The route to Challenge mode being attainable for people was the Dark Zone, though, and I have no idea how that's going to shake out now. I just know that I could work on gearing myself up via the DZ and now the only reason I would ever go in there is for shits and giggles. The DZ is utterly useless to players right now once they've gotten their first round of good purples out of it, which really doesn't take long.
Having to grind for two days for 1 piece of high end gear frankly sounds like shit to me.
Based on what you just said: 30+50 currency potential per day, right? Someone else said a decent piece of high end gear costs 90-160. That means a minimum of two days for one piece of high end gear, unless I am misunderstanding something.
I don't think time gating in this fashion is a good design trait. I'm not sure what a better solution is. Other methods of lateral advancement, maybe, to spread endgame advancement so that it's not so pronounced when someone does put a lot of time and effort into it.
I think the main problem here is that MMO developers still haven't figured out a good way to balance a single community that includes casuals, powergamers/timesinkers, and those that sit somewhere in the middle. I have no idea what the solution is but this isn't it.
If he was DZ29 you would have probably killed him assuming you aren't potatoes. The big thing is that he hit DZ30 and is able to purchase items from the DZ vendors again.
Yea punishing players who don't go rogue is kind of pants. I mean the XP lose isn't so massive; the currency lose is what I think is kind of excessive.
I'm level 14/14. I have several buddies I'd normally play with who are 20, so they're gone. I'll see them again at cap. Then I have two buddies who were level 8 today. So I spent my morning rerunning old missions and helping them get to 12, so we could do some DZ together. Now, I don't mind redoing old content with them to no benefit to myself, but it's sort of disappointing that I have to be incredibly careful not to accidentally level to 15, because then I'd be back in between my two friend groups and unable to DZ with either again.
Bluuuugh.
I would kill to be able to level myself down and just join random groups with people and do content over and over. COH Sidekick system, where art thou?
So we murdered one of them and ran off to try to get the timer to cool. We accidentally ended up down a dead end, and now five players are coming after us. We hold them off twice in waves, but Midnight goes down and of course our timer isn't coming off because we're being forced to fight the whole time. We died, lost credits, lost stuff, but it felt good to go down at a 3:1 ratio of kills against the mooks.
You drop your keys along with the rest of your stuff when you die. They can be looted. None of them are safe.
This is why I haven't claimed the three pack until I know I'm going to be going in with a team.
DS Friend code: 3840-6605-3406
So, these sound like legitimate issues to me, but I don't think turning up the faucet on Phoenix Credits would do anything more than push your issue back a few days. You'd have a fun few days in the Dark Zone, get all your PC gear, and then the Phoenix Credits hit the same level of uselessness as you've described Dark Zone Credits, right? This is the problem with MMOs or really anything that attempts to have the concept of a persistent "end game", and I don't think a solution really exists; the best attempts at tackling this inevitable problem are just the ones that delay it most gracefully.
Someone convince me on beefy men considering gear keeps giving me tons of stamina and it feels entirely useless when you still die in a second of exposure.
Game has been out for four days, true. I can GUARANTEE you that the hardcore people hit 30, and have all of the gear they will ever want or at least the blueprints to create them. Wanna know what suddenly turning a trickle of end-game currency into a drip will do now? They will dominate in the Dark Zone, period. People will walk in all bright eyed in their blues and purples ready to tackle the DZ, and get gunned down by some jerk-ass who rushed to cap specifically to get the best gear to do this.
All this sort of change does is benefit those who did it first. It always ends up like that in games which are Semi-Massively/Massively Multiplayer, people who jumped on an "exploit" or a "trick" are rewarded beyond belief and then it gets stomped into the ground leaving no one able to catch up.
Good point!
I'm not arguing that they shouldn't have changed the drop rate, just that this change from 10-15 to 1-3 is far too dramatic a shift and it basically makes the entire DZ pointless at 30. There's just no reason to go there at all right now. The drops aren't good, the risk/reward for going Rogue is way out of whack, and the higher difficulty zones don't reward players for pushing them except by giving access to vendors that sell stuff you no longer need.
Another thing to note about Phoenix Credits and their current rate:
It costs *30* Phoenix Credits to attempt a stat re-roll on a high end item. This cost goes up as you reroll on the same item VERY dramatically. Two rerolls and you're at about 75. So no, Phoenix Credits and their gear are unlikely to ever reach the same level of uselessness as DZ currency, simply because rerolls and different build optimizations would take a very long time to exhaust your supply. As of right now, you'd have to blow far more than an entire daily haul to reroll on a single item.
If they had swung the pendulum less in the opposite direction, or not simultaneously nerfed the already abysmal yellow drop rate, or tweaked Challenge matchmaking to check appropriate gear levels it would have been way less awful. Maybe that stuff is coming or changing and the hotfix just couldn't address them. I don't know. All I know is that a viable, enjoyable endgame option is presently MIA and the DZ, where I was having the most fun, is pointless.
I wish I had known that before claiming my items. I didn't. Of course you figure I'll lose my gear and I'm OK with that, shit like that though that you're just carrying and not understanding how rare they are. . .ugh.
I mostly wish the timer was more severe honestly. I mean this should be a big deal, you're going rogue against the efforts of your agency to beat back this virus. Kill another agent. Time out mister. So you in 30 seconds.
If the nerf happened maybe a week or so after? Sure.
Four days? I doubt it. Not saying jumping on him is a good thing... but I think you're overstating the majestic law here.
This is exactly what I've done (held off on redeeming the triple-pack)...but somehow, I've still managed to loot three DZ keys that I have no intention of using (until I'm in a group). I kind of wish I could just stuff those keys into my stash...but, oh well.
I already do this when people go Rogue just by having a couple yellow weapons. I chew through HP in the 30 DZ so fast I've been accused of cheating. I'm happy I'm on the other side of the curve, but it really sucks for the people stuck without a nice stash of High End gear already, especially when other players in my position get bored and have nothing left to do but troll the beginner Dark Zones.
I'm WAY ahead of the pom pom beanie curve collection now, too. Up to five!
You're pretty much right in that it's not a serious problem and they turned it off relatively quickly.
I mean, this is going to happen in literally every single game ever unless there is no leveling at all.
So it's kinda irrelevant one way or another? No matter what the situation for anyone who wasn't in that top 1% of gameplay time was going to go into the DZ to get smashed by people who want to do that. It's kinda why I have alot of issues with the new hot gaming idea of letting players decide whether or not to be dicks.
The very core of the game is written with the seamlessness of the world in which we go from place to place with party members dropping in and out with great ease. It's designed around playing and building your character how you want.
If this game takes end-game content to the "Dailies or bust" kind of situation I am going to be super super sad. I feel it is one of the laziest game mechanics in which to thread progress through - especially when there are so many other avenues to travel.
Had a great time playing with you guys last night. I wish I would have screenshot or recorded that firefight in the sports store, that was epic.
Breakdown from operation "Purple Out":
1) Thelonius drops a purple, his first in fact. The rub being we are on our way out because our stashes are full.
2) The plan is made that he will grenade himself in the subway out of the way and clean up some space, I will stand watch.
3) Thelonius first flash bangs himself, then drops a frag.
4) Before his body even vanishes I get ambushed and killed by rogue agents
5) the purple is gone, as well as a knit scarf I kind of wanted
Hopefully we can get into more shenanigans soon. Although I leveled to 20 after everyone left to try out that purple sniper rifle, so I'll be out of the bracket for a bit until you guys can catch up.
Xbox Live / Steam
It's been out closer to 5 days at this point.
But that's nowhere near as badass as kicking ass with your sidearm.
Tried to do a level 10 mission I'd already done before. Got into a game with 3 people, one of whom just sat by the entrance and never did anything. Left that one after a couple failed attempts where there were just more dudes than the two of us could handle.
Then got into the same mission again with a full group, things were going really well. Until I eventually went into cover, fell through the floor, ended up stuck in some pipes and then suddenly teleported back to a safe house. The hell? When I went to teleport back to a group member, for some reason the entire party was outside the mission.
We went to go do a bounty I'd already done before, but hey, xp right?
Yeah...
You win game. You win.
Those JTF people are so damn lazy. "We need help with supplies!" *Runs 10 blocks* "Yeah they are like, just over there."
This is a good trick for doing things solo, I will be sure to pass it on to my lower level companions.
Axel is an anagram of Alex. 'Nuff said.
Now is actually the time to be careful about making sweeping changes, before you player base is really locked in. Too many wide pendulum swings of the balancing axe and you end up with a fragmented player base that seeds resentment that can echo for a lot longer than the problem exists.
This is tons of fun, the gameplay is fast and deep. There hasn't really been this good a cover shooter before. The AI is great, the difficulty is great, the pvp is fun and nothing feels flat. You post and flank and flush and bunker dudes all over PvE and PvP, even the PvE gameplay is very dynamic with lots of pushes forward and falling back. Missions are essentially horde mode rooms but feel great because there's so much movement and the AI tries to exploit your squad all the time. I play missions and DZ with friends and there's tons of teamplay all the time, which is something shooters typically lack.
My only peeve so far is that during our big DZ evening we had way too few players to fight. Was probably just a shitty instance but man, I'm worth sooo much and you're risking sooo little when I'm in manhunt mode, come get me pubbies. We haven't been able to replicate our ridiculously epic 3vEveryone Last Stand in the beta yet.
*Edit: I mean, most games are dropped after playing 40 hours and considered money well spent but eh.