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[Autonomous Transportation] When the cars have all the jobs, the poor will walk the earth

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Posts

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    So what should driver algorithms value more in situations where somebody is going to get hurt: the passengers or other people (in other cars/pedestrians)?

    What do we do when car owners say "save my life, even if it means killing other people"?

    Like what does that situation even look like?

    There are a bunch of kids planning in the middle of the road on a bridge and you will either hit them or drive over the edge?

    The number of situations where 'hit the breaks' is a response that will kill you if you are driving is pretty small. The number where it will kill you and if you don't do it you'll kill some larger number of people...

    I doubt you'd see anything really built around the car making evasive maneuvers. Just too many ways it can go wrong. "well the car swered into oncoming traffic because it detected 2 kids playing in the street and 2>1" seems great till its peoples garbage cans that got blown into the road.

    On top of that most their sensors are still LOS. So for the car it might make sense to jump the curb to avoid the driver who just opened his door. But you might take out the wife unstrapping the kid from a carseat.

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Yeah I don't think it's as complicated as people are making it seem.

    There is an obstacle:
    Hit the brakes.
    If you can't stop in time; and you have a space to legally go (e.g. another lane in your direction--not the curb, or an oncoming lane, or something like that) that isn't occupied, move into that lane.

    Honestly it might be safer overall to always hit the brakes and never attempt to swerve.

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    And at the end of the day, I trust a computer to keep me and others safe far better than I ever could in a split second situation.

  • edited March 2016
    This content has been removed.

  • glimmungglimmung Registered User regular
    Google gave the example of an oncoming car with a bike to the side. The auto car will just brake and take the hit.

  • glimmungglimmung Registered User regular
    I have seen some people postulating crazy situations where the car acts as a computer controlled super hero.

    Pretty stupid, it will just act like a hyper aware normal driver.

  • This content has been removed.

  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    I have seen some people postulating crazy situations where the car acts as a computer controlled super hero.

    Pretty stupid, it will just act like a hyper aware normal driver.

    Basically. In the Google example, as far as ethics and liability is concerned, maintaining your lane and sticking with brakes (and hope for the best) makes sense.

    But if, say, a cyclist loses control and enters the lane with insufficient time to brake, do you do the same? Or hit he parked car, which poses a lesser total injury probability but greater to the occupant?

    humans aren't expected to intentionally crash into a parked car as an emergency brake to avoid hitting a human, I'm not sure why we would expect an AI to do it

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • This content has been removed.

  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    I have seen some people postulating crazy situations where the car acts as a computer controlled super hero.

    Pretty stupid, it will just act like a hyper aware normal driver.

    Basically. In the Google example, as far as ethics and liability is concerned, maintaining your lane and sticking with brakes (and hope for the best) makes sense.

    But if, say, a cyclist loses control and enters the lane with insufficient time to brake, do you do the same? Or hit he parked car, which poses a lesser total injury probability but greater to the occupant?

    humans aren't expected to intentionally crash into a parked car as an emergency brake to avoid hitting a human, I'm not sure why we would expect an AI to do it.

    I agree. Some might argue that an algorithm should try to ensure minimal harm when possible, though.

    Ultimately, it probably should. But that is almost certainly a problem many, many iterations in the future and will be an incremental improvement in safety that will be made possible by vastly more powerful AI and sensor data than is currently available.

    Simply having an entirely predictable, law abiding/rule following and entirely vigilant driver that never get bored or impatient is already a huge improvement in safety but one that is vastly magnified as all cars are automated. It may be the case that once all cars or nearly all cars are automated this sort of question becomes irrelevant or nearly so

  • This content has been removed.

  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    Seems like premature optimisation is my point. Even if we don't separate everything or rid ourselves of non-driverless cars.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Apothe0sis wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Aioua wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    I have seen some people postulating crazy situations where the car acts as a computer controlled super hero.

    Pretty stupid, it will just act like a hyper aware normal driver.

    Basically. In the Google example, as far as ethics and liability is concerned, maintaining your lane and sticking with brakes (and hope for the best) makes sense.

    But if, say, a cyclist loses control and enters the lane with insufficient time to brake, do you do the same? Or hit he parked car, which poses a lesser total injury probability but greater to the occupant?

    humans aren't expected to intentionally crash into a parked car as an emergency brake to avoid hitting a human, I'm not sure why we would expect an AI to do it.

    I agree. Some might argue that an algorithm should try to ensure minimal harm when possible, though.

    Ultimately, it probably should. But that is almost certainly a problem many, many iterations in the future and will be an incremental improvement in safety that will be made possible by vastly more powerful AI and sensor data than is currently available.

    Simply having an entirely predictable, law abiding/rule following and entirely vigilant driver that never get bored or impatient is already a huge improvement in safety but one that is vastly magnified as all cars are automated. It may be the case that once all cars or nearly all cars are automated this sort of question becomes irrelevant or nearly so

    Nearly so, yes.

    But unless we can completely grade separate pedestrians and cyclists from automated cars, you still have that wildcard out there.

    Shrug. Computer get better, and eventually, in theory they all get networked. You share all the data, if you have to processing, you can get a pretty good distributed picture of what is going on in an area, and share things like "I am avoiding a pedestrian by going into your 'lane'" or time intersection flow tightly. In decades, when there aren't human drivers.

    Now the stop and don't change lanes+not being drunk, tired, distracted or speeding will probably be a good enough to keep insurance companies happy for a while.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited March 2016
    I don't really mind the idea of keeping humans, bicycles, and huge machines separate from the other. Ideally, all from each other.

    Also: Self-driving motorcycles. :3

    Incenjucar on
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    The rider is very important to motor cycles not falling the fuck over. Like you could maybe make one that came when you called, but like robot control with a person on it might not work too well.


    I...

    want a bike horsie.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Bring forth the self-driving world so that finally the issue of car sickness as a result of reading/watching/writing becomes an epidemic and an effort is made to find a pharmaceutical solution for it.
    Quid wrote: »
    FWIW

    Google's car finally had an accident it was at fault for.

    Four million plus miles, one accident, zero injuries. The concern others have aired that it would only take one accident for massive public backlash seems to not be the case.

    Hitting a bus at 2 mph where the 'fault' is pretty contentious (it sounds like municipal bullshit to me, as others have said, where the bus is always given the right of way even if the driver is being an asshole and would be considered at fault if he/she were any other driver) isn't the real test, though. The real test is what happens when a self driving car is involved in a fatal collision and there is very compelling reason to believe that the driving algorithm or sensors somehow caused the accident.

    Maglev technology had plenty of little missteps, but it wasn't until Lathen that there was blacklash against the technology - and even when the investigation of that tragedy revealed it was 99% human error and had nothing to do with the train, German media & political opportunits kept harping on about that 1% and it really set back the technology.

    With Love and Courage
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    The rider is very important to motor cycles not falling the fuck over. Like you could maybe make one that came when you called, but like robot control with a person on it might not work too well.


    I...

    want a bike horsie.

    One word: sidecar.

    There was actually a motorcycle entered in one of the DARPA Grand Challenges a few years back. It failed miserably. In fairness, so did nearly everyone else. And my university has a self-driving bicycle (riderless; there's no room for the person there anyway) but I've never seen it in action (I don't even know if it ever worked).

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • NinotchkaNinotchka Registered User regular
    I was thinking about unaccompanied minors and driverless cars this morning as I dropped the kid off at school. How young should someone be to be able to direct a driverless car? My kid's 15 so I think she's definitely old enough to pour into the car in the morning and have it come pick her up in the afternoon, and mature enough that I would feel fine letting her take a driverless car to friends' houses or rehearsals or the mall. But how young would be too young?

    I'd think I would want to have parental controls, a set of permitted destinations that a younger kid could direct the car to, and a built-in alert if the kid tries to take the car after bedtime or during school hours. Or maybe have a remote approval function - the kid gets in the car after school and says she wants to go to Britney's house, the car texts me to ask for approval before scooting over.

    Is that too helicopter parent-y?

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    glimmung wrote: »
    Google gave the example of an oncoming car with a bike to the side. The auto car will just brake and take the hit.
    Don't know if it's changed, but driver's ed taught that braking was the only right move. Normal driving, you're not going to be aware of everything all the time, so swerving is as likely to smash you into the side of something, not to mention potentially losing control of the vehicle because of the sharp turn.

    An auto-car with all that 360 degree integrated information stuff would probably be safer just because any decision to swerve would include data on what's to the side of the vehicle, and would ideally include a broadcast to other vehicles so that they would adjust to give more space.

    The biggest danger with self driving cars is that I think people will get out of the habit of wearing seat belts, so any collision would probably be deadly.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Emissary42 wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    The elephant in the room that none of you are talking about is parking.

    Cities especially large dense cities like New York would ban manual cars just to free up between 10 and 20% of their surface area. Right now New York is about to cover a whole train yard just to gain more usable land. All of those parking lanes and garages, gone.

    Let's make a list of things that will die.

    Gas stations
    Truck stops
    Diners
    Mechanics (dramatically reduced)
    Going to do weird things to ups and fedex

    The amount of space we use to store our cars is staggering. And it's a huge social problem! Every parking space is a place where nobody can live, so parking is associated with more expensive housing. Meanwhile, a parking lot, since it is neither a business nor a resident, produces very little tax revenue. There's a direct inverse relationship between city tax revenue and parking growth.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-01/american-cities-waste-space-and-money-on-car-parking-say-studies

    This is one area where deregulation would actually help us. Most cities have minimum parking requirements on new construction.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/07/free_parking_isn_t_free_parking_mandates_hurt_america_s_cities.html

    The intent is noble - we don't want street parking to get crowded with more cars as a new apartment building is put in. But it ends up being a cyclical problem. Minimum parking requirements incentivize driving - the more parking spaces, the more people buy cars, and the more people drive. And this connection is causal, not merely correlative.

    http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/01/the-strongest-case-yet-that-excessive-parking-causes-more-driving/423663/

    There's a whole book about this, called "The High Cost of Free Parking" by Donald Shoup. I don't actually recommend reading it - it's one of those books that has exactly one point to hammer home, and spends hundreds of pages arguing for it in different ways. However, I do recommend reading articles about Shoup and by Shoup. This article at Vox is a good summary of his arguments: http://www.vox.com/2014/6/27/5849280/why-free-parking-is-bad-for-everyone

    The other change to what parking remains is that self driving cars will need much less space to park themselves in. You can reduce parking lots to a small loading/unloading area, and a tetris-like labyrinth only navigable by machines.

    Someone forgets their baby in the car. The limited AI of the garage does it's best, and surprisingly the child actually survives and even thrives, ultimately becoming a kind of machine Mowgli.


    LTTP I know, but I just had to put this one down.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    The rider is very important to motor cycles not falling the fuck over. Like you could maybe make one that came when you called, but like robot control with a person on it might not work too well.


    I...

    want a bike horsie.

    One word: sidecar.

    There was actually a motorcycle entered in one of the DARPA Grand Challenges a few years back. It failed miserably. In fairness, so did nearly everyone else. And my university has a self-driving bicycle (riderless; there's no room for the person there anyway) but I've never seen it in action (I don't even know if it ever worked).

    I'd envisioned a riderless bike as being something like the three wheeled scooters that are designed so you don't have to put a foot down. They self balance at low speed but still lean like a bike:

    NLEN50ol.jpg

  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    I don't think I've seen any logistical hurdle here that could not be solved with better AI and guaranteed minimum income. Not that I'm trying to kill the thread. Discussing the details of how to solve a problem is, like, our thing.

    The privacy thing is a stickier problem and ties into the concerns about Big Data.

    When it comes to renting vs owning a car, why not have it both ways? My family has two cars, one for me to commute to work, and the other one (a van) for for taking the kids to school, grocery shopping, family stuff. I would eagerly give up my car and just take Johnny Cab to work, and keep the family car for everything else.

  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    Google gave the example of an oncoming car with a bike to the side. The auto car will just brake and take the hit.
    Don't know if it's changed, but driver's ed taught that braking was the only right move. Normal driving, you're not going to be aware of everything all the time, so swerving is as likely to smash you into the side of something, not to mention potentially losing control of the vehicle because of the sharp turn.

    An auto-car with all that 360 degree integrated information stuff would probably be safer just because any decision to swerve would include data on what's to the side of the vehicle, and would ideally include a broadcast to other vehicles so that they would adjust to give more space.

    The biggest danger with self driving cars is that I think people will get out of the habit of wearing seat belts, so any collision would probably be deadly.

    They might even be able to plan out skids at high speeds or on slippery surfaces.

  • Mr KhanMr Khan Not Everyone WAHHHRegistered User regular
    How do the auto-cars know the speed limit, or address sudden changes thereof? I could see it being a legal issue for school zones and things like that.

  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    jothki wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    Google gave the example of an oncoming car with a bike to the side. The auto car will just brake and take the hit.
    Don't know if it's changed, but driver's ed taught that braking was the only right move. Normal driving, you're not going to be aware of everything all the time, so swerving is as likely to smash you into the side of something, not to mention potentially losing control of the vehicle because of the sharp turn.

    An auto-car with all that 360 degree integrated information stuff would probably be safer just because any decision to swerve would include data on what's to the side of the vehicle, and would ideally include a broadcast to other vehicles so that they would adjust to give more space.

    The biggest danger with self driving cars is that I think people will get out of the habit of wearing seat belts, so any collision would probably be deadly.

    They might even be able to plan out skids at high speeds or on slippery surfaces.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY93kr8PaC4

    and that's six years old.

    Emissary42 on
  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    How do the auto-cars know the speed limit, or address sudden changes thereof? I could see it being a legal issue for school zones and things like that.

    It's all publicly available information. My last car rental had a GPS that knew what the local speed limit was.

  • glimmungglimmung Registered User regular
    I saw a comment once with the
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Emissary42 wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    The elephant in the room that none of you are talking about is parking.

    Cities especially large dense cities like New York would ban manual cars just to free up between 10 and 20% of their surface area. Right now New York is about to cover a whole train yard just to gain more usable land. All of those parking lanes and garages, gone.

    Let's make a list of things that will die.

    Gas stations
    Truck stops
    Diners
    Mechanics (dramatically reduced)
    Going to do weird things to ups and fedex

    The amount of space we use to store our cars is staggering. And it's a huge social problem! Every parking space is a place where nobody can live, so parking is associated with more expensive housing. Meanwhile, a parking lot, since it is neither a business nor a resident, produces very little tax revenue. There's a direct inverse relationship between city tax revenue and parking growth.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-01/american-cities-waste-space-and-money-on-car-parking-say-studies

    This is one area where deregulation would actually help us. Most cities have minimum parking requirements on new construction.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2013/07/free_parking_isn_t_free_parking_mandates_hurt_america_s_cities.html

    The intent is noble - we don't want street parking to get crowded with more cars as a new apartment building is put in. But it ends up being a cyclical problem. Minimum parking requirements incentivize driving - the more parking spaces, the more people buy cars, and the more people drive. And this connection is causal, not merely correlative.

    http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/01/the-strongest-case-yet-that-excessive-parking-causes-more-driving/423663/

    There's a whole book about this, called "The High Cost of Free Parking" by Donald Shoup. I don't actually recommend reading it - it's one of those books that has exactly one point to hammer home, and spends hundreds of pages arguing for it in different ways. However, I do recommend reading articles about Shoup and by Shoup. This article at Vox is a good summary of his arguments: http://www.vox.com/2014/6/27/5849280/why-free-parking-is-bad-for-everyone

    The other change to what parking remains is that self driving cars will need much less space to park themselves in. You can reduce parking lots to a small loading/unloading area, and a tetris-like labyrinth only navigable by machines.

    Someone forgets their baby in the car. The limited AI of the garage does it's best, and surprisingly the child actually survives and even thrives, ultimately becoming a kind of machine Mowgli.


    LTTP I know, but I just had to put this one down.

    Oh god pixar get on this!

    Post apocolipse New York with autonomous cars taking care of an infant. Tarzan with robots.

    Evil tribe of earth movers or some such.

  • glimmungglimmung Registered User regular
    I had a conversation with a trucker about autonomous cars, just feeling him out on the subject. It is kinda unsurprising but people really don't understand what computers/robots are good at, or what they are currently terrible at.

    Backing a trailer into a loading dock is really easy, that is just geometry. Not freaking out over a cardboard box in the middle of the street, that is hard.

  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    glimmung wrote: »
    I had a conversation with a trucker about autonomous cars, just feeling him out on the subject. It is kinda unsurprising but people really don't understand what computers/robots are good at, or what they are currently terrible at.

    Backing a trailer into a loading dock is really easy, that is just geometry. Not freaking out over a cardboard box in the middle of the street, that is hard.

    Relevant xkcd

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    I like to ART
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Emissary42 wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    Google gave the example of an oncoming car with a bike to the side. The auto car will just brake and take the hit.
    Don't know if it's changed, but driver's ed taught that braking was the only right move. Normal driving, you're not going to be aware of everything all the time, so swerving is as likely to smash you into the side of something, not to mention potentially losing control of the vehicle because of the sharp turn.

    An auto-car with all that 360 degree integrated information stuff would probably be safer just because any decision to swerve would include data on what's to the side of the vehicle, and would ideally include a broadcast to other vehicles so that they would adjust to give more space.

    The biggest danger with self driving cars is that I think people will get out of the habit of wearing seat belts, so any collision would probably be deadly.

    They might even be able to plan out skids at high speeds or on slippery surfaces.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY93kr8PaC4

    and that's six years old.

    Okay, this changes my view on them completely. One self driving Subaru Impreza STI please, and yes I would like the Ken Block DLC.

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
  • Emissary42Emissary42 Registered User regular
    Emissary42 wrote: »
    jothki wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    glimmung wrote: »
    Google gave the example of an oncoming car with a bike to the side. The auto car will just brake and take the hit.
    Don't know if it's changed, but driver's ed taught that braking was the only right move. Normal driving, you're not going to be aware of everything all the time, so swerving is as likely to smash you into the side of something, not to mention potentially losing control of the vehicle because of the sharp turn.

    An auto-car with all that 360 degree integrated information stuff would probably be safer just because any decision to swerve would include data on what's to the side of the vehicle, and would ideally include a broadcast to other vehicles so that they would adjust to give more space.

    The biggest danger with self driving cars is that I think people will get out of the habit of wearing seat belts, so any collision would probably be deadly.

    They might even be able to plan out skids at high speeds or on slippery surfaces.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY93kr8PaC4

    and that's six years old.

    Okay, this changes my view on them completely. One self driving Subaru Impreza STI please, and yes I would like the Ken Block DLC.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krJmTZ-TcMc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNIDcT0Zdj4

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    How do the auto-cars know the speed limit, or address sudden changes thereof? I could see it being a legal issue for school zones and things like that.

    It's all publicly available information. My last car rental had a GPS that knew what the local speed limit was.

    ^ This, and Google's current cars can all read most road signs (they know what construction zones & school zones are, for example). Non-standard signs could be a problem for the cars... but if we're honest, people are so bad at reading road signs anyway that it's hard to imagine self-driving cars doing a worse job (can anyone here claim that they've never accidentally or even intentionally just sped through a school zone?).

    With Love and Courage
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    I'd be really curious to see how a driverless car would have fared in my recent accident. I was on a four lane road, in the outside lane, with traffic on the inside lane backed up for several blocks. Directly in front of a crosswalk was a box truck and then a GMC Yukon. I drive a Mustang. I did not see the biker, and he said he had no idea I was coming. It was a rather low speed accident (maybe 10-15mph before slamming the brakes), being a 20mph school zone and I was already coasting in neutral in preparation to stop shortly past the crosswalk for traffic in my lane. No one was cited for it, and the couple of witnesses that hung around basically agreed neither of us would have reasonably known the other was there. Thankfully there were no major injuries (the biker had a gash from my antenna).

    I'm wondering if a driverless cars sensors would have caught the biker far enough in advance where I couldn't, or possibly even done a good enough job reacting and braking to avoid it.

  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    How do the auto-cars know the speed limit, or address sudden changes thereof? I could see it being a legal issue for school zones and things like that.

    It's all publicly available information. My last car rental had a GPS that knew what the local speed limit was.

    ^ This, and Google's current cars can all read most road signs (they know what construction zones & school zones are, for example). Non-standard signs could be a problem for the cars... but if we're honest, people are so bad at reading road signs anyway that it's hard to imagine self-driving cars doing a worse job (can anyone here claim that they've never accidentally or even intentionally just sped through a school zone?).

    Has this changed since 2014? Google's car can read all most all stop signs to handle the case of construction on a mapped road, but it's still dependent on the road being mapped by a special vehicle that requires multiple passes and then the data analyzed by both humans and a computer.

  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Mvrck wrote: »
    I'd be really curious to see how a driverless car would have fared in my recent accident. I was on a four lane road, in the outside lane, with traffic on the inside lane backed up for several blocks. Directly in front of a crosswalk was a box truck and then a GMC Yukon. I drive a Mustang. I did not see the biker, and he said he had no idea I was coming. It was a rather low speed accident (maybe 10-15mph before slamming the brakes), being a 20mph school zone and I was already coasting in neutral in preparation to stop shortly past the crosswalk for traffic in my lane. No one was cited for it, and the couple of witnesses that hung around basically agreed neither of us would have reasonably known the other was there. Thankfully there were no major injuries (the biker had a gash from my antenna).

    I'm wondering if a driverless cars sensors would have caught the biker far enough in advance where I couldn't, or possibly even done a good enough job reacting and braking to avoid it.

    Wait the biker was riding in the cross walk?

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
  • glimmungglimmung Registered User regular
    Mvrck wrote: »
    I'd be really curious to see how a driverless car would have fared in my recent accident. I was on a four lane road, in the outside lane, with traffic on the inside lane backed up for several blocks. Directly in front of a crosswalk was a box truck and then a GMC Yukon. I drive a Mustang. I did not see the biker, and he said he had no idea I was coming. It was a rather low speed accident (maybe 10-15mph before slamming the brakes), being a 20mph school zone and I was already coasting in neutral in preparation to stop shortly past the crosswalk for traffic in my lane. No one was cited for it, and the couple of witnesses that hung around basically agreed neither of us would have reasonably known the other was there. Thankfully there were no major injuries (the biker had a gash from my antenna).

    I'm wondering if a driverless cars sensors would have caught the biker far enough in advance where I couldn't, or possibly even done a good enough job reacting and braking to avoid it.

    Wait the biker was riding in the cross walk?

    Pet peeve of mine bikes should always be part of traffic. Also fuck those bike lanes to the right of traffic, drivers never look to their right.

    As a cyclist autonomous cars can't come fast enough.

  • JuliusJulius Captain of Serenity on my shipRegistered User regular
    khain wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    Mr Khan wrote: »
    How do the auto-cars know the speed limit, or address sudden changes thereof? I could see it being a legal issue for school zones and things like that.

    It's all publicly available information. My last car rental had a GPS that knew what the local speed limit was.

    ^ This, and Google's current cars can all read most road signs (they know what construction zones & school zones are, for example). Non-standard signs could be a problem for the cars... but if we're honest, people are so bad at reading road signs anyway that it's hard to imagine self-driving cars doing a worse job (can anyone here claim that they've never accidentally or even intentionally just sped through a school zone?).

    Has this changed since 2014? Google's car can read all most all stop signs to handle the case of construction on a mapped road, but it's still dependent on the road being mapped by a special vehicle that requires multiple passes and then the data analyzed by both humans and a computer.

    I haven't kept up with stuff but I believe it still relies on the road being mapped, and still can't properly deal with a bunch of unexpected things.

    And GPS relies on mapping too. and can be wrong, but at least there you can ignore what your GPS says and look at the signs. For autonomous cars you'd need a system that can be immediately updated whenever changes to the road are made.

  • glimmungglimmung Registered User regular
    I would really prefer that auto cars were not heavily networked. You could get a lot of the needed behavoir out of pure broadcast based comms. Basically each car would constantly transmit about its state with no back and forth. Less attack surface and possibly more privacy. An RF equivalent of turn signals.

  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    glimmung wrote: »
    I would really prefer that auto cars were not heavily networked. You could get a lot of the needed behavoir out of pure broadcast based comms. Basically each car would constantly transmit about its state with no back and forth. Less attack surface and possibly more privacy. An RF equivalent of turn signals.

    Well, given that even current cars can be hacked and shut off remotely....

  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Just having all the cars spaced properly with no pacing would go a long way to avoiding accidents. If there isn't a car next to you ever, swerving to avoid something suddenly becomes less of an issue.

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