The People v. Castle [Daredevil Season 2]

nightmarenny

Olivaw wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the writing and the plotting seems a lot more... suspect, this time around

Like (spoilers up to episode five)

this whole thing starts because this guy who survives a massacre immediately goes to these two poor-ass lawyers as opposed to the police? I mean it turns out yeah that was probably smart because the DA immediately uses him as bait for the Punisher, but that guy wouldn't know that!

further, the black cop they press for information basically gives them information because Matt says... he already knows that a guy was wearing body armor? and then later on he lets Daredevil go because... Daredevil told him to take the credit for it? And the ADA gives Karen a bunch of files because... his boss might theoretically throw him under the bus maybe?? And then the guys in the ER stop fighting because Foggy gives a speech that takes the long way around to "there's cops right there and you'll go to jail forever if you fight now" as if these guys didn't already know that!

Like some of these character motivations almost seem almost like non-sequiturs to move the plot along

I even thought "how does she know that x-ray is frank???" until I thought about it and well, I guess it had to be because it was for a John Doe and it was an x-ray, and everything else in that file would have been a corpse with a name attached I guess (though that leads her to a guy who's a janitor now who used to be a nurse I guess? who took Frank home and presumably smuggled him out of the hospital because he told him to?? even though he knew that would cost him his job??? huh???)

Anyway, show's alright, pacing feels a bit weird and writing seems off but the fight choreography is arguably better than ever. All the fights with Frank have been spectacular so far. The sequence from episode three doesn't top the hallway fight (it's a bit less artful I think and it obviously cuts in several places) but it's still a fucking incredible fight sequence with a ton of really creative choreography, so I don't fault it one bit

Oh and one last thing: I did not expect this season to somehow be even more explicitly violent last season, but boy they do not cut away at all, even when someone has a shotgun pointed at another guy's face

That face was just gone

It was awesome

I can't speek for the rest but

Grotte gives his exact reason for coming to them instead of the police. It was fine.

Olivaw

nightmarenny wrote: »

Olivaw wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the writing and the plotting seems a lot more... suspect, this time around

Like (spoilers up to episode five)

this whole thing starts because this guy who survives a massacre immediately goes to these two poor-ass lawyers as opposed to the police? I mean it turns out yeah that was probably smart because the DA immediately uses him as bait for the Punisher, but that guy wouldn't know that!

further, the black cop they press for information basically gives them information because Matt says... he already knows that a guy was wearing body armor? and then later on he lets Daredevil go because... Daredevil told him to take the credit for it? And the ADA gives Karen a bunch of files because... his boss might theoretically throw him under the bus maybe?? And then the guys in the ER stop fighting because Foggy gives a speech that takes the long way around to "there's cops right there and you'll go to jail forever if you fight now" as if these guys didn't already know that!

Like some of these character motivations almost seem almost like non-sequiturs to move the plot along

I even thought "how does she know that x-ray is frank???" until I thought about it and well, I guess it had to be because it was for a John Doe and it was an x-ray, and everything else in that file would have been a corpse with a name attached I guess (though that leads her to a guy who's a janitor now who used to be a nurse I guess? who took Frank home and presumably smuggled him out of the hospital because he told him to?? even though he knew that would cost him his job??? huh???)

Anyway, show's alright, pacing feels a bit weird and writing seems off but the fight choreography is arguably better than ever. All the fights with Frank have been spectacular so far. The sequence from episode three doesn't top the hallway fight (it's a bit less artful I think and it obviously cuts in several places) but it's still a fucking incredible fight sequence with a ton of really creative choreography, so I don't fault it one bit

Oh and one last thing: I did not expect this season to somehow be even more explicitly violent last season, but boy they do not cut away at all, even when someone has a shotgun pointed at another guy's face

That face was just gone

It was awesome

I can't speek for the rest but

Grotte gives his exact reason for coming to them instead of the police. It was fine.

I know and it felt bonkers to me

I've never in my life seen a piece of fictional media present someone who wants witness protection going to a lawyer first

Usually because they want out immediately not within the next business day

I dunno, that's probably just me, but it did feel like "this is not what I expected to be the inciting incident for this story"

Also, just in general?

Matt seems to shrug off/heal almost immediately a lot more punishment this time around, but that doesn't bother me as much as the actual plot stuff

It just feels like something they handled better in season one, where it felt like it took a lot more time for him to recover, and he was a greater disadvantage when he fought while injured, whereas here it feels like he can just sort of "turn it on" and then he mows through a dozen guys or beats the shit out of the Punisher despite having fallen two stories through a skylight and the day before lost his hearing due to a concussion for a bit

Heck, it only felt like during the Punisher fight the hearing/concussion thing only came back when it was convenient for the plot, rather than being a factor throughout the fight

Again, these are fairly minor nitpicks, but I guess I got a bit too hype after rewatching that last season

Jon Bernthal is killing it, for the record, even if his monologues go on a bit long

Lalabox

Ep 5

is electra gaslighting matt?

masterofmetroid

Ep 6

Nelson and Murdock taking a strong "Fuck the death penalty" stance here

I can dig it

Dedwrekka

Olivaw wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the writing and the plotting seems a lot more... suspect, this time around

Like (spoilers up to episode five)

this whole thing starts because this guy who survives a massacre immediately goes to these two poor-ass lawyers as opposed to the police? I mean it turns out yeah that was probably smart because the DA immediately uses him as bait for the Punisher, but that guy wouldn't know that!

further, the black cop they press for information basically gives them information because Matt says... he already knows that a guy was wearing body armor? and then later on he lets Daredevil go because... Daredevil told him to take the credit for it? And the ADA gives Karen a bunch of files because... his boss might theoretically throw him under the bus maybe?? And then the guys in the ER stop fighting because Foggy gives a speech that takes the long way around to "there's cops right there and you'll go to jail forever if you fight now" as if these guys didn't already know that!

Like some of these character motivations almost seem almost like non-sequiturs to move the plot along

I even thought "how does she know that x-ray is frank???" until I thought about it and well, I guess it had to be because it was for a John Doe and it was an x-ray, and everything else in that file would have been a corpse with a name attached I guess (though that leads her to a guy who's a janitor now who used to be a nurse I guess? who took Frank home and presumably smuggled him out of the hospital because he told him to?? even though he knew that would cost him his job??? huh???)

Anyway, show's alright, pacing feels a bit weird and writing seems off but the fight choreography is arguably better than ever. All the fights with Frank have been spectacular so far. The sequence from episode three doesn't top the hallway fight (it's a bit less artful I think and it obviously cuts in several places) but it's still a fucking incredible fight sequence with a ton of really creative choreography, so I don't fault it one bit

Oh and one last thing: I did not expect this season to somehow be even more explicitly violent last season, but boy they do not cut away at all, even when someone has a shotgun pointed at another guy's face

That face was just gone

It was awesome

Grotto explains why he went to Nelson and Murdoc.
The DA didn't already have a plan to use Grotto as bait, they came up with it when Grotto went into police custody. It didn't hinge on it being Grotto or on the person being represented by Nelson and Murdoc.

The cop they pressed for information is their friend who also gave them information all the way through Season 1, and Matt didn't mysteriously know about the information in the case, they flat out showed us that he was listening in on the detectives on the scene.
The cop later took credit for the arrest because Daredevil made him a compelling argument based off of the conversation he had with Daredevil that same night.

It really seems like you're missing a chunks of the episodes.

Dedwrekka

Ep7

I really, really like Frank turning down the PTSD defence.

Grey Ghost

Clancy Brown!

Olivaw

Dedwrekka wrote: »

Olivaw wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the writing and the plotting seems a lot more... suspect, this time around

Like (spoilers up to episode five)

this whole thing starts because this guy who survives a massacre immediately goes to these two poor-ass lawyers as opposed to the police? I mean it turns out yeah that was probably smart because the DA immediately uses him as bait for the Punisher, but that guy wouldn't know that!

further, the black cop they press for information basically gives them information because Matt says... he already knows that a guy was wearing body armor? and then later on he lets Daredevil go because... Daredevil told him to take the credit for it? And the ADA gives Karen a bunch of files because... his boss might theoretically throw him under the bus maybe?? And then the guys in the ER stop fighting because Foggy gives a speech that takes the long way around to "there's cops right there and you'll go to jail forever if you fight now" as if these guys didn't already know that!

Like some of these character motivations almost seem almost like non-sequiturs to move the plot along

I even thought "how does she know that x-ray is frank???" until I thought about it and well, I guess it had to be because it was for a John Doe and it was an x-ray, and everything else in that file would have been a corpse with a name attached I guess (though that leads her to a guy who's a janitor now who used to be a nurse I guess? who took Frank home and presumably smuggled him out of the hospital because he told him to?? even though he knew that would cost him his job??? huh???)

Anyway, show's alright, pacing feels a bit weird and writing seems off but the fight choreography is arguably better than ever. All the fights with Frank have been spectacular so far. The sequence from episode three doesn't top the hallway fight (it's a bit less artful I think and it obviously cuts in several places) but it's still a fucking incredible fight sequence with a ton of really creative choreography, so I don't fault it one bit

Oh and one last thing: I did not expect this season to somehow be even more explicitly violent last season, but boy they do not cut away at all, even when someone has a shotgun pointed at another guy's face

That face was just gone

It was awesome

Grotto explains why he went to Nelson and Murdoc.
The DA didn't already have a plan to use Grotto as bait, they came up with it when Grotto went into police custody. It didn't hinge on it being Grotto or on the person being represented by Nelson and Murdoc.

The cop they pressed for information is their friend who also gave them information all the way through Season 1, and Matt didn't mysteriously know about the information in the case, they flat out showed us that he was listening in on the detectives on the scene.
The cop later took credit for the arrest because Daredevil made him a compelling argument based off of the conversation he had with Daredevil that same night.

It really seems like you're missing a chunks of the episodes.

I'm not missing them, I just don't think they flow particularly well

I know the cop was from season one and of course I know Matt listened in on what was going on inside because it happened during the conversation, but it basically went like this

"hey man tell us what's going on, we might have a guy"
"I am not telling you anything"
"hey that guy was wearing body armor, what's up with that"
"...okay I'm going to tell you literally everything we know"

That doesn't immediately make sense, you have to have the guy go "how do you know that, we literally just got here", that is the next logical step to that conversation and they just skip it entirely

And then later on, why doesn't he take the credit and also want to arrest Daredevil? How does a guy make a turn like that in a matter of hours based on a handful of sentences from the crazy guy in the mask? That turn felt unearned to me, based on the earlier conversation

Grey Ghost

Episode 8

yessssssss full-on black magic ninja shit
GIMME ALL YOU GOT

Olivaw

Grey Ghost wrote: »

Clancy Brown!

Oh man awesome

Gustav

Olivaw wrote: »

Dedwrekka wrote: »

Olivaw wrote: »

I gotta say, some of the writing and the plotting seems a lot more... suspect, this time around

Like (spoilers up to episode five)

this whole thing starts because this guy who survives a massacre immediately goes to these two poor-ass lawyers as opposed to the police? I mean it turns out yeah that was probably smart because the DA immediately uses him as bait for the Punisher, but that guy wouldn't know that!

further, the black cop they press for information basically gives them information because Matt says... he already knows that a guy was wearing body armor? and then later on he lets Daredevil go because... Daredevil told him to take the credit for it? And the ADA gives Karen a bunch of files because... his boss might theoretically throw him under the bus maybe?? And then the guys in the ER stop fighting because Foggy gives a speech that takes the long way around to "there's cops right there and you'll go to jail forever if you fight now" as if these guys didn't already know that!

Like some of these character motivations almost seem almost like non-sequiturs to move the plot along

I even thought "how does she know that x-ray is frank???" until I thought about it and well, I guess it had to be because it was for a John Doe and it was an x-ray, and everything else in that file would have been a corpse with a name attached I guess (though that leads her to a guy who's a janitor now who used to be a nurse I guess? who took Frank home and presumably smuggled him out of the hospital because he told him to?? even though he knew that would cost him his job??? huh???)

Anyway, show's alright, pacing feels a bit weird and writing seems off but the fight choreography is arguably better than ever. All the fights with Frank have been spectacular so far. The sequence from episode three doesn't top the hallway fight (it's a bit less artful I think and it obviously cuts in several places) but it's still a fucking incredible fight sequence with a ton of really creative choreography, so I don't fault it one bit

Oh and one last thing: I did not expect this season to somehow be even more explicitly violent last season, but boy they do not cut away at all, even when someone has a shotgun pointed at another guy's face

That face was just gone

It was awesome

Grotto explains why he went to Nelson and Murdoc.
The DA didn't already have a plan to use Grotto as bait, they came up with it when Grotto went into police custody. It didn't hinge on it being Grotto or on the person being represented by Nelson and Murdoc.

The cop they pressed for information is their friend who also gave them information all the way through Season 1, and Matt didn't mysteriously know about the information in the case, they flat out showed us that he was listening in on the detectives on the scene.
The cop later took credit for the arrest because Daredevil made him a compelling argument based off of the conversation he had with Daredevil that same night.

It really seems like you're missing a chunks of the episodes.

I'm not missing them, I just don't think they flow particularly well

I know the cop was from season one and of course I know Matt listened in on what was going on inside because it happened during the conversation, but it basically went like this

"hey man tell us what's going on, we might have a guy"
"I am not telling you anything"
"hey that guy was wearing body armor, what's up with that"
"...okay I'm going to tell you literally everything we know"

That doesn't immediately make sense, you have to have the guy go "how do you know that, we literally just got here", that is the next logical step to that conversation and they just skip it entirely

And then later on, why doesn't he take the credit and also want to arrest Daredevil? How does a guy make a turn like that in a matter of hours based on a handful of sentences from the crazy guy in the mask? That turn felt unearned to me, based on the earlier conversation

Up to s2e5

I'm having a lot of the exact same problems with the supporting cast. This is as nerdy a reference as I can get, but every conversation where Nelson, Murdock, and Page get info it feels more like a critical charisma role than a conversation. ESPECIALLY the ADA. So far he makes no sense as a character.

That said I think they are doing a great job on giving the three main characters compelling plotlines. I haven't been bored by any of them in anyway!

Though aside from the Frank fights, I haven't been as into the fights this season. Matt feels less acrobatic, I wonder if it's the suit. (though they really improved parts of it, I think it would be one of the best if they got rid of the stupid black plates that looks stapled on. The red eyes work like gangbusters though)

And the Punisher has been super well done thus far.

Grey Ghost

Episode 8 again

what was with Frank losing it on the stand? Do we think that was legit or something to do with what the cop whispered to him?

Diablo Fett

Grey Ghost wrote: »

Episode 8 again

what was with Frank losing it on the stand? Do we think that was legit or something to do with what the cop whispered to him?

finish the episode

Grey Ghost

Diablo Fett wrote: »

Grey Ghost wrote: »

Episode 8 again

what was with Frank losing it on the stand? Do we think that was legit or something to do with what the cop whispered to him?

finish the episode

Ohhhhhhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiit

Diablo Fett

Grey Ghost wrote: »

Diablo Fett wrote: »

Grey Ghost wrote: »

Episode 8 again

what was with Frank losing it on the stand? Do we think that was legit or something to do with what the cop whispered to him?

finish the episode

Ohhhhhhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiit

yeah

Melding

it is good to know i am not the only person who spent most of today watching this.

Devlin_Dragonus

Melding wrote: »

it is good to know i am not the only person who spent most of today watching this.

I tried but I had to work I'm catching up now!

DarkPrimus

God you people and your binges.

Having a partner to watch with helps keep the episodes-at-once down to a reasonable number.

Chincymcchilla

Man the fights are so good but

(general/very light spoiler)

the whole 'daredevil never kills' thing being such a big plot point makes those times when he like, fucking throws a pipe wrench into someone's skull a little weird

Devlin_Dragonus

Season 2 episode 5

Elecktra first came off as that eccentric rich ex girlfriend

and quickly turned into a psychotic crazy person.

Olivaw

Chincymcchilla wrote: »

Man the fights are so good but

(general/very light spoiler)

the whole 'daredevil never kills' thing being such a big plot point makes those times when he like, fucking throws a pipe wrench into someone's skull a little weird

All superhero physics operate a very particular way

blunt force trauma never has or ever will kill anyone

Ever

Peewi

Devlin_Dragonus wrote: »

Season 2 episode 5

Elecktra first came off as that eccentric rich ex girlfriend

Mad quickly turned into a psychotic crazy person.

Yeah

Elektra is way too excited about violence.

Is that an established character trait in other stuff?

Devlin_Dragonus

Peewi wrote: »

Devlin_Dragonus wrote: »

Season 2 episode 5

Elecktra first came off as that eccentric rich ex girlfriend

Mad quickly turned into a psychotic crazy person.

Yeah

Elektra is way too excited about violence.

Is that an established character trait in other stuff?

No, in most interpretations she was like, a noble soul? This is an interesting interpretation because it almost puts you off, like you see right away that she isn't good for him. I'm interested if the flesh out why she is the way she is.

In the Afflect movie she witnessed her mother get killed in front of her, so that might be the same here as well, but with it resulting in actual mental trauma.

I guess we will find out, I'll ipdate my impression at episodes progress.

Chincymcchilla

Elektra impressions

well cast, well acted. really, really fucked up. LOVED matt's reactions to her.

Melding

I am liking the punisher a lot more than i thought i would. I think they handle him very well from what i have seen.

Starfuck

I was a Punisher fanboy growing up (have 1st print 1st appearance in Spidey and plenty more) and I thought they treated that character right. Great intro in Daredevil series and Elektra was done really, like really well. So many of the scenes in this show seem to just pop right of some classic comic pages, it was almost jarring, but in a good way.

The whole walking Frank into the jail, I half expected to see Jigsaw sitting in a cell.

Bucketman

Episode 2

See pawnshop guy, quit while your ahead. he already didn't skin that tattoo off your neck, you gotta bring kiddie porn into this

Etchwarts

Grey Ghost wrote: »

The new mask seems to fit his face way better

Yeah, I'm actually kind of learning to like the costume? It's growing on me.

Also, just finished Episode 1, and

If you had told me that the Punisher was being retconned to be an actual, honest to god Terminator, I would have believed you

That slow walk through the hospital was some goddamn Arnold Schwarzenegger shit

Ceno

Just started episode 2.

Bernthal makes a pretty strong first impression.

Devlin_Dragonus

S2ep8

That cross examination with Clancy Brown. I laughed so hard when the DA cross's examination blew up in her face.

Etchwarts

About halfway through S2ep2

"She's barely 12!"

Hmm.

Frank Castle, I think you're the worst. I kind of hate that you exist, and it's exclusively because of how you kill people for a living.

But you know what? Yeah, I think I'm with you on this guy, do your worst.

NeoToma

season 2 episode 6 15 minutes in

man i was not expecting this turn of events

Bucketman

When I was a kid I was really sick for a few weeks. To cheer me up my mom got me some comics since I liked superheroes. She went into a wal-greens and came out with 5 issues of PUNISHER AND KILLPOWER

because thats what you buy a 12 year old right? Anyway, I've had a soft spot for Punisher ever since, hes both a great and awful character at the same time, but 3 episodes in, I like how they are portraying him a lot.

Olivaw

...hey wait a goddamn second

Spoilers for episode 3

rewatching it, the folder she pulls the x-ray out of has a fucking name on it

It straight up says "F. CASTLE"

Why did she need to go to the hospital and find the janitor who once worked as a nurse to tell him about the John Doe who he drove to his house??? The Castles have a mailbox with their name out front, you can just look him up in the fucking phone book

Shit is just sloppy this season

Peas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiJOKJ1_KDs

Grey Ghost

Episode 9

holy SHIT this prison fight

Devlin_Dragonus

Olivaw wrote: »

...hey wait a goddamn second

Spoilers for episode 3

rewatching it, the folder she pulls the x-ray out of has a fucking name on it

It straight up says "F. CASTLE"

Why did she need to go to the hospital and find the janitor who once worked as a nurse to tell him about the John Doe who he drove to his house??? The Castles have a mailbox with their name out front, you can just look him up in the fucking phone book

Shit is just sloppy this season

I have a theory about this, and it would be completely wrong. But I think the DA were in on what ever went down with him getting shit in the head, so in the course of covering it up they submitted him as a John Doe but of course they knew who he was.

Olivaw

Devlin_Dragonus wrote: »

Olivaw wrote: »

...hey wait a goddamn second

Spoilers for episode 3

rewatching it, the folder she pulls the x-ray out of has a fucking name on it

It straight up says "F. CASTLE"

Why did she need to go to the hospital and find the janitor who once worked as a nurse to tell him about the John Doe who he drove to his house??? The Castles have a mailbox with their name out front, you can just look him up in the fucking phone book

Shit is just sloppy this season

I have a theory about this, and it would be completely wrong. But I think the DA were in on what ever went down with him getting shit in the head, so in the course of covering it up they submitted him as a John Doe but of course they knew who he was.

Well yeah obviously but

why would they then have a folder with the name of the hospital on it and F. CASTLE in big letters written on it? Why then would Karen not immediately go "oh this is the Punisher" and then go to a phonebook to find his/his family's address and then just go there without having to go the hospital to find a janitor who was a nurse who worked on the Punisher to tell her a story of how he apparently smuggled him out of the hospital in secret and drove him to his house, and who he said was a John Doe but actually someone at the hospital knew his name to write it down on this folder???

All these plot holes because some set designer or production assistant decided to write down his name on the front of the folder so the audience could see it

Lalabox

ep 11

man, frank gives awful relationship advice

Etchwarts

S2ep3

Holy shit that fight

I hope each season of Daredevil has a progressively longer "one take" fight until you have like, an entire episode in Daredevil season 8 or whatever that's just a giant fight

That shit was on fire