As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
We're funding a new Acquisitions Incorporated series on Kickstarter right now! Check it out at https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pennyarcade/acquisitions-incorporated-the-series-2

Sony & Microsoft had a mid-cycle crisis: The Aftermath

1404143454659

Posts

  • Big ClassyBig Classy Registered User regular
    SO they'll be downscaled to 1080p?, presumably. In any case, I'll probably drop the dollar for that.

  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    It really depends on price for me. It'll come down to a toss up between Scorpio and a PC upgrade (with 4k bluray drive). I like the convenience of console more though.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
    vagrant_windsSynthesis
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    Running at native 4K makes it sound more and more like this thing is gonna carry a hefty price tag

    SeidkonaUselesswarriorStupidQanamil
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    Digital Foundry put up another excellent PS4 Pro video,

    https://youtu.be/FGBlwdkHWFs

    I think these guys have easily been doing the most in depth coverage about what to expect from the Pro when it's released.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    It's 4K-ish

    Uselesswarrior
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    The lack of locked 60fps gaming at 1080 is the biggest bummer for me. But it's just not that realistic. Maybe we will get lucky on a few highly optimized titles, but I don't expect it to be standard.

    It's still crazy to me how good Doom 4 looks on the PS4 all while running at a locked 60. The technical bar has been set already. The sad thing is most developer are not running engines that have been highly optimized by some of the brightest minds in the industry. So even hitting 60 on the upgraded Pro might be out of grasp for those devs.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
    Commodore75
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    On the other hand, there's plenty of people who don't mind 30fps and would rather take enhanced visuals. There are even trains of thought that 60 fps is worse due to the human eye preferring slower framerates (remember the Hobbit 60 fps stuff?)

    Like, I personally would like to see anti-aliasing made standard in every game over 60fps or 4k.

    jimb213Synthesis
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    That's different

    The Hobbit at 48 frames straight looked like garbage

    NaphtaliHardtarget
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    That's different

    The Hobbit at 48 frames straight looked like garbage

    It just took some getting used to. I found the and with the Uncharted collection, I went back to Uncharted 3 after 4 it took me a bit to get used to the higher frame rate. If I could have had a 30fps lock like the last of us, I would.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    No, god no

    It was basically the shitty soap opera effect you only see on TVs in stores that have smooth motion turned on, but I was seeing it in a theater

    Downright offensive is how I'd describe it, bad enough that I asked for my money back, the ONLY time I've ever done that and I've seen some real stinkers (well, I asked for a ticket to a normal showing, same difference)

    Higher framerates are awesome for games but keep that shit away from film

    UnbreakableVow on
    Prohass
  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    But that's exactly how video games look. Moving from 30fps Uncharted 4 to 60fps Uncharted 3 was like seeing the difference between the Hobbit 24p and The Hobbit 48p. But we're used to video games running at that frame rate so it takes less getting used to and people have embraced it.

    I hate artificial motion smoothing, but I enjoyed the native filming of the hobbit and I'd be keen to see other films embraced 48p or even better, 120fps:

    http://www.slashfilm.com/ang-lee-120-fps-footage/

    It just has to be used right.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
    Synthesis
  • DashuiDashui Registered User regular
    I'm happy to hear that Horizon will downsample its 4K to fit my 1080p screen. I hope more games on the Pro do that. That should offer a pretty substantial boost to sharpness.

    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    It's probably because I work in video production, but I can't stand games at 60 fps (at least the ones I play). I'd much rather developers lock it down to 30 fps and use the leftover processing power/bandwidth for better graphics.

    HefflingStupid
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    At this point, I think the most aggressive thing Microsoft could do would be to have the Scorpio be a true next gen console. It'd be too soon for Sony to comfortably immediately roll out another console, and it'd be the "most powerful" console which might draw buyers.

    It could also hella backfire, I dunno. MS is getting their lunch ate up, though, so seems like it might be Hail Mary time.

    They're a league closer to that than Sony's upgrade plan--a four year gap between models, an approximate power differential of 4 or more times between models.

    Closer than the PS4 to PSFro jump, but it could still not be enough. It's still entirely possible that people won't care about the power difference between "Project Scorpio" and XB1, much less PS4 to PSFro--just speaking in my own experience, making a new hardware purchase in four years is much easier to justify than three years. I also think either console in the $500 range stacks pretty favorably against a $500 Gaming PC you build yourself, monitor and KBAM set excluded, given that everyone already has a means to browse the internet, check emails, etc.

    But I also don't buy a new phone every year (or one subsidizes by a plan). I could be the outlier, we'll see if there's a huge rush to upgrade from PS4 to PSFro.

    Maybe if you only look at TFLOPS. In reality it's just the GPU that's getting a ~4x upgrade, the CPU will almost certainly be pretty much the same.

    AMD do have their Zen CPUs coming down the line but there's no way they'll be ready (or probably cheap enough) in time. Those will be more of next revision thing (which I'll just call PS5/XB3).
    No, god no

    It was basically the shitty soap opera effect you only see on TVs in stores that have smooth motion turned on, but I was seeing it in a theater

    Downright offensive is how I'd describe it, bad enough that I asked for my money back, the ONLY time I've ever done that and I've seen some real stinkers (well, I asked for a ticket to a normal showing, same difference)

    Higher framerates are awesome for games but keep that shit away from film

    Really? It took me 10 minutes to get used to it and it was great from then on, especially in the action scenes. I have no real issue with 30/24fps but the resistance to 60/48fps film is so bizarre to me. What makes 30/24fps so amazing that it shouldn't be improved with new technology?

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
    Taranis
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    The hobbit in 48 frames looked interesting in action scenes and landscape shots, I wouldn't say better, just interesting

    Unfortunately in scenes where characters are talking up close it definitely looks like a soap opera. It's not a case of getting used to it, it just looks hilarious and cheap

  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
    Honestly, it probably looks cheap because we are used to associating that kind of look as cheaply-made bargain basement productions.

    I wonder if some weird alternate reality where cinema had adopted 48fps and some avant-garde renegade decided to do 24fps film if people would see the latter and think it looks like junk.

    Unco-ordinatedUselesswarrior
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Doesn't the framerate comparison for video games and movies not really hold up due to blur and how that manifests in the two mediums? Increasing the framerate on a film decreases blur per frame which can make it look super weird, where for video games you could have the same amount of motion blur at 240 fps as 30 if you wanted since you're not reliant on real objects moving in your frame.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • MaddocMaddoc I'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother? Registered User regular
    I kind of weirdly like the shitty soap opera effect

    97H9G7S.png PSN - Masked Unit | FFXIV - Laitarne Gilgamesh
  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    I remember watching a fight scene from Batman vs. Superman cleaned up to a pseudo 60 FPS and it seemed pretty visceral.

    That said, the whole immersiveness of the material probably influences it quite a bit. Having that sort of stuff take place in a real-life setting probably works better than a bunch of actors in high fantasy costume LARPing for the camera :P

  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    it comes down to context I think. For action it makes you feel "there" in a kind of uncanny valley but neat sense. However, for dialogue and sets it makes you feel there in a "oh shit everything is fake this looks like a handycam" sense

  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    I remember being pretty stunned when I saw a demo for the Transformers movie running at 60 fps in Costco.

    Certain movies could probably benefit from the effect. Probably ones with lots of CGI, including fully CG movies like Pixar.

  • Mr_GrinchMr_Grinch Registered User regular
    It's clearer. I find it's a lot more "theatrical" than "cinematic" in appearance.

    I think that's where The Hobbit fell down, with that clarity you break the illusion of 'these are dwarves in middle-earth' and it becomes 'these are people wearing silly costumes on sets'.

    Action scenes though looked spectacular, the smooth motion etc. Both have their place I feel. Much like I don't think every game should be 60fps even if it's capable of running at that frame rate.

    Take something like Until Dawn, whilst I'd love the frame rate to be evened out I think it might lose a lot of it's cinematic nature at 60fps. I'd be curious to see what it'd be like with a 24p mode, I don't imagine it'd struggle to keep a locked 24fps.

    Some games suit a frame rate of 30fps, others 60fps. I think it could/should be the same in cinema.

    Steam: Sir_Grinch
    PSN: SirGrinchX
    Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    At this point, I think the most aggressive thing Microsoft could do would be to have the Scorpio be a true next gen console. It'd be too soon for Sony to comfortably immediately roll out another console, and it'd be the "most powerful" console which might draw buyers.

    It could also hella backfire, I dunno. MS is getting their lunch ate up, though, so seems like it might be Hail Mary time.

    They're a league closer to that than Sony's upgrade plan--a four year gap between models, an approximate power differential of 4 or more times between models.

    Closer than the PS4 to PSFro jump, but it could still not be enough. It's still entirely possible that people won't care about the power difference between "Project Scorpio" and XB1, much less PS4 to PSFro--just speaking in my own experience, making a new hardware purchase in four years is much easier to justify than three years. I also think either console in the $500 range stacks pretty favorably against a $500 Gaming PC you build yourself, monitor and KBAM set excluded, given that everyone already has a means to browse the internet, check emails, etc.

    But I also don't buy a new phone every year (or one subsidizes by a plan). I could be the outlier, we'll see if there's a huge rush to upgrade from PS4 to PSFro.

    Maybe if you only look at TFLOPS. In reality it's just the GPU that's getting a ~4x upgrade, the CPU will almost certainly be pretty much the same.

    That's pretty much what we have to look at for the time being. HDR either already exists on a console, or is being patched in. The PSFro isn't going to have a major new functionality on the disc drive (which, like HDR, one may or may not care about). It's on Sony (and in time, Microsoft) to better demonstrate the additional power available to them (which is a hard thing to do at a tech show a lot of people view on mediocre-quality online stream).

    Synthesis on
  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Mr_Grinch wrote: »
    It's clearer. I find it's a lot more "theatrical" than "cinematic" in appearance.

    I think that's where The Hobbit fell down, with that clarity you break the illusion of 'these are dwarves in middle-earth' and it becomes 'these are people wearing silly costumes on sets'.

    Action scenes though looked spectacular, the smooth motion etc. Both have their place I feel. Much like I don't think every game should be 60fps even if it's capable of running at that frame rate.

    Take something like Until Dawn, whilst I'd love the frame rate to be evened out I think it might lose a lot of it's cinematic nature at 60fps. I'd be curious to see what it'd be like with a 24p mode, I don't imagine it'd struggle to keep a locked 24fps.

    Some games suit a frame rate of 30fps, others 60fps. I think it could/should be the same in cinema.

    I really hope Until Dawn is one of the first games to get Pro patched. I'd love to play through that again on Halloween, but the framerate is really, really jittery in that game.

    No idea if the PSVR launch game will be worth checking out. Last I checked it was an on-rails shooter?

    Professor Snugglesworth on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I had a weird dream where a business dude was sitting at the end of my bed and said he was showing off the new Xbox 120, which was identical visually to an original Xbox One, but with Xbox One S internals and a 3 terabyte harddrive. I admonished him about how it would just create market confusion.

    Dark Raven XSynthesisUselesswarriorkimeexisJusticeforPluto
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    I had a weird dream where a business dude was sitting at the end of my bed and said he was showing off the new Xbox 120, which was identical visually to an original Xbox One, but with Xbox One S internals and a 3 terabyte harddrive. I admonished him about how it would just create market confusion.

    *screams himself awake, his sheets soaked in sweat*

    UselesswarriorProhass
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    Synthesis why are you repeatedly calling it the PSFro

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Synthesis why are you repeatedly calling it the PSFro

    He really wants a Frozen Yogurt.

    Synthesis
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Man, what if Microsoft has been trolling Sony all along about a .5 consoles? Basically goading Sony in to wasting time and resources developing one as well to stay competitive, but secretly the Scorpio is in fact a next-gen console.

    Oh man, I want this to be true so badly. I don't even care for Microsoft or the Xbox, but if this was true I'd buy one out of pure respect for the sheer brass balls it'd take to pull off. :biggrin:

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
    Dark Raven X
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Synthesis why are you repeatedly calling it the PSFro

    He really wants a Frozen Yogurt.

    You've got me. You've found me out.
    Actually, it's because Kotaku's podcast started calling that, and--as I mentioned previously--it's the best nickname I've heard so far unless I intend to write out "Playstation 4 Pro" in its entirety.
    Also, I actually am not a huge fan of frozen yogurt, since I don't normally consume lactose.
    Axen wrote: »
    Man, what if Microsoft has been trolling Sony all along about a .5 consoles? Basically goading Sony in to wasting time and resources developing one as well to stay competitive, but secretly the Scorpio is in fact a next-gen console.

    Oh man, I want this to be true so badly. I don't even care for Microsoft or the Xbox, but if this was true I'd buy one out of pure respect for the sheer brass balls it'd take to pull off. :biggrin:

    Do you hear that thunder in the distance? That's the sound of MS' shareholders burning Xbox Campus in Redmond to the ground.

    :lol:

    Commodore75
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Nah, I doubt we'll see anything substantial on it until E3 2017. Then they unveil it as next-gen, gaming community loses their collective shit, and Microsoft makes bank that holiday season.

    Sony'll would need surgery to get their collective jaws off the floor.

    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • Darth_MogsDarth_Mogs Registered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Man, what if Microsoft has been trolling Sony all along about a .5 consoles? Basically goading Sony in to wasting time and resources developing one as well to stay competitive, but secretly the Scorpio is in fact a next-gen console.

    Oh man, I want this to be true so badly. I don't even care for Microsoft or the Xbox, but if this was true I'd buy one out of pure respect for the sheer brass balls it'd take to pull off. :biggrin:

    Well, I mean, they'd have a lot of pissed off consumers who were assured that nothing that was playable on Scorpio wouldn't also be playable on the XBone original and the S. So, probably less "brass balls" and more "the XBone reveal all over again"

    Kupowered - It's my Blog!
    Unco-ordinated
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    "IS THIS WHY YOU GAVE THEM FREE BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY FOR THEIR EXISTING LIBRARIES? I'LL KILL YOU! I'LL KILL ALL OF YOU!"

    Synthesis on
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    Axen wrote: »
    Nah, I doubt we'll see anything substantial on it until E3 2017. Then they unveil it as next-gen, gaming community loses their collective shit, and Microsoft makes bank that holiday season.

    Sony'll would need surgery to get their collective jaws off the floor.

    In this scenario did their jaws fall off from laughing too hard? Mogs is right, it would be a monumentally dumb move.

    I've tried PS4P but I've settled on "the Pro" as a nickname. I don't think it has the same cringeworthy stigma of "the One", so it works in the same way "the 360" did.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Axen wrote: »
    Nah, I doubt we'll see anything substantial on it until E3 2017. Then they unveil it as next-gen, gaming community loses their collective shit, and Microsoft makes bank that holiday season.

    Sony'll would need surgery to get their collective jaws off the floor.

    In this scenario did their jaws fall off from laughing too hard? Mogs is right, it would be a monumentally dumb move.

    I've tried PS4P but I've settled on "the Pro" as a nickname. I don't think it has the same cringeworthy stigma of "the One", so it works in the same way "the 360" did.

    Except for all the other devices and product that have "Pro" as a major component of their name (most recently, I've seen the iPad Pro referred to as much)--and unlike this device, may even have a non-stupid reason to have it as a designation.

    Synthesis on
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    It may take a little deduction and guesswork on your part, but it shouldn't be hard

    Example: "I wonder how Uncharted 4 runs on the Pro"

    Not about the iPad!

    shoeboxjeddy
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    It may take a little deduction and guesswork on your part, but it shouldn't be hard

    Example: "I wonder how Uncharted 4 runs on the Pro"

    Not about the iPad!

    On the other hand, "I'm going to buy my kid brother a 'Pro for Christmas."

    And you're shown iPads, or Surfaces, or a few other devices sold on location.

    "No, I mean a Playstation 4."

    "Ah, I gotcha."

    Viola, kid brother gets a PS4 Slim.

    For Axen's wicked fake-out burn, Microsoft should reveal "Project Scorpio" as XBOX ONE PRO, in the same typeface, then drop the fake sign and reveal whatever bad but hopefully not as awful name they come up with. That'd get a laugh from me, after the spike in blood pressure.

    Synthesis on
    Zilla360
  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    Darth_Mogs wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    Man, what if Microsoft has been trolling Sony all along about a .5 consoles? Basically goading Sony in to wasting time and resources developing one as well to stay competitive, but secretly the Scorpio is in fact a next-gen console.

    Oh man, I want this to be true so badly. I don't even care for Microsoft or the Xbox, but if this was true I'd buy one out of pure respect for the sheer brass balls it'd take to pull off. :biggrin:

    Well, I mean, they'd have a lot of pissed off consumers who were assured that nothing that was playable on Scorpio wouldn't also be playable on the XBone original and the S. So, probably less "brass balls" and more "the XBone reveal all over again"

    And again. What is Microsoft going to be able to pull off in a year's time that Sony didn't? Either Microsoft is going to release a console that is very similar in price and performance to the Pro, or Microsoft is going to put out a much more expensive box that is more powerful. Either way don't expect miracles in tech, the pace of GPU and CPU development is a pretty known quantity and most likely no one in the tech industry is going to be blind sided by Microsoft's box.

    Whether they call it a ".5" step or a next generation console is kind of a moot point.

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    It may take a little deduction and guesswork on your part, but it shouldn't be hard

    Example: "I wonder how Uncharted 4 runs on the Pro"

    Not about the iPad!

    On the other hand, "I'm going to buy my kid brother a 'Pro for Christmas."

    And you're shown iPads, or Surfaces, or a few other devices sold on location.

    "No, I mean a Playstation 4."

    "Ah, I gotcha."

    Viola, kid brother gets a PS4 Slim.

    For Axen's wicked fake-out burn, Microsoft should reveal "Project Morpheus" as XBOX ONE PRO, in the same typeface, then drop the fake sign and reveal whatever bad but hopefully not as awful name they come up with. That'd get a laugh from me, after the spike in blood pressure.

    What?

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • Darth_MogsDarth_Mogs Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    For Axen's wicked fake-out burn, Microsoft should reveal "Project Morpheus" as XBOX ONE PRO, in the same typeface, then drop the fake sign and reveal whatever bad but hopefully not as awful name they come up with. That'd get a laugh from me, after the spike in blood pressure.

    Well, it'd be a hell of a fake-out if Microsoft unveiled PSVR as the XBox One Pro, I'll give you that.

    Kupowered - It's my Blog!
    AbsoluteZero
Sign In or Register to comment.