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[Superheroes] By the hoary hosts of Hoggoth, what a savings.

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Honestly, if I must be serious. If Spider-Man killed in a movie that I still enjoyed, it wouldn't break the movie for me.

    I'm kinda ok with heroes trying their damndest not to kill more than anything.

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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    These characters can change all the time and precedent shouldn't come into the argument really as much as "What's consistently good about these characters?"

    Batman is a Pulp detective/Zorro type character at his best

    Superman is a inspiring figure with a little bit of showmanship mixed in everything he does

    Spider-man is the everyman forced to make the hard choice to do the right thing

    You can absolutely change these things but then the characters get worse, not better. Who cares if one writer made an exception? All that matters was that it was a GOOD exception or a bad one.

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Lars wrote: »
    Gustav wrote: »
    Yeah. I am. Cus I like Spider-Man more.

    Well, at least you're honest about being a hypocrite in this scenario, but it kind of defeats the purpose of trying to talk about it.

    My point is people have different but totally valid reactions to art and stories. I'm not saying a single person is wrong for taking umbrage with any of these characters killing. I'm saying if the end result is a good story it doesn't bother me.

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a hero accidentally killing someone if their reaction is appropriate

    Yeah, that "accidentally" is a huge qualifier. Spider-man should never try to kill someone. Spider-man should never intentionally kill someone. But you could get a good story or two out of Spider-man accidentally killing someone that would be entirely appropriate to his character.

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    MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Hey, I should see if someone's set up that Cavill/Affleck interview to the Sound of Silence

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    Make batman travel back in time to shoot his own parents

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    http://chainsawsuit.com/

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    OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Hey remember that Punisher comic where Punisher's family was brought back from the dead so he kills them again himself?

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    BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User, Moderator mod
    there's a pretty big difference between batman intentionally shooting people and not giving a damn, and spider-man accidentally killing someone.

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    -Tal wrote: »
    I'm okay with a hero accidentally killing someone if their reaction is appropriate

    Yeah, that "accidentally" is a huge qualifier. Spider-man should never try to kill someone. Spider-man should never intentionally kill someone. But you could get a good story or two out of Spider-man accidentally killing someone that would be entirely appropriate to his character.

    Yeah, it's a pretty long road from "accidentally killing someone" to "Batman took out criminals with his Squad Automatic Weapon".

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    Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    I guess I feel that no-kill is less important to Batman because they've spent so many years making the world and the character darker and darker. They've had a Joker with his face cut off and reattached and made Batman think they had done the same to his family. They did the Killing Joke where a father saw naked images of his daughter who had been shot. I feel that at this point, the character not killing is a left over of what Batman used to be and it might be an ok time to hang that up.

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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    I guess I feel that no-kill is less important to Batman because they've spent so many years making the world and the character darker and darker. They've had a Joker with his face cut off and reattached and made Batman think they had done the same to his family. They did the Killing Joke where a father saw naked images of his daughter who had been shot. I feel that at this point, the character not killing is a left over of what Batman used to be and it might be an ok time to hang that up.
    Only if you think any of that shit was a good idea

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    edited March 2016
    I guess I feel that no-kill is less important to Batman because they've spent so many years making the world and the character darker and darker. They've had a Joker with his face cut off and reattached and made Batman think they had done the same to his family. They did the Killing Joke where a father saw naked images of his daughter who had been shot. I feel that at this point, the character not killing is a left over of what Batman used to be and it might be an ok time to hang that up.

    It's definitely an issue to be considered. The reason you get all of the "WHY DOESN'T BATMAN KILL THE JOKER" hullabaloo is because of how hilariously over the top they've made the stakes.

    Gustav on
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    TairuTairu Registered User regular
    Matev wrote: »
    Hey, I should see if someone's set up that Cavill/Affleck interview to the Sound of Silence

    Evanescence's Wake Me Up Inside feels pretty apropos

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    DedwrekkaDedwrekka Metal Hell adjacentRegistered User regular
    I guess I feel that no-kill is less important to Batman because they've spent so many years making the world and the character darker and darker. They've had a Joker with his face cut off and reattached and made Batman think they had done the same to his family. They did the Killing Joke where a father saw naked images of his daughter who had been shot. I feel that at this point, the character not killing is a left over of what Batman used to be and it might be an ok time to hang that up.

    I don't think taking the shittiest writing out of all of the batman stories as evidence that Batman should be a completely different guy works to well.

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    I agree that they should de-escalate the Joker, yes.

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    The Joker should frankly be retired for a decade if you wanna fix Batman.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I guess I feel that no-kill is less important to Batman because they've spent so many years making the world and the character darker and darker. They've had a Joker with his face cut off and reattached and made Batman think they had done the same to his family. They did the Killing Joke where a father saw naked images of his daughter who had been shot. I feel that at this point, the character not killing is a left over of what Batman used to be and it might be an ok time to hang that up.

    I think that might be a part of the reason why I think it's important that he doesn't kill, actually?

    Like, Batman is the number one advocate for rehabilitation

    No matter how awful the things you do are, there's help for you

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Except his idea of help is a gothic stone lunatic asylum with gargoyles all over

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    I think film media could use more main characters who don't kill, to be honest.

    That's the big reason I like Superman and hate Man of Steel. He's like THE guy with the upstanding morals AND the power to follow through on them, and the movie whiffs on that SO HARD.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu_yazDpHWc

    this might be the batman I enjoyed the most in the past decade

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Except his idea of help is a gothic stone lunatic asylum with gargoyles all over

    Man I would have leapt at the possibility of being committed if it had been to a place as sick as that

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    I agree that they should de-escalate the Joker, yes.

    I just finished reading Endgame and for fuck's sake

    let's let Gotham not be ground down to a fine powder for maybe like a couple issues maybe

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    TurambarTurambar Independent Registered User regular
    I dunno, I can like a story where Osborne just drives Peter past the brink and he actually tries to murder him

    He shouldn't succeed though, and afterwards he should feel really bad and never try to kill anyone ever again

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    Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Except his idea of help is a gothic stone lunatic asylum with gargoyles all over

    Man I would have leapt at the possibility of being committed if it had been to a place as sick as that

    Being trapped in the same buiding as people like the Joker, Two-Face, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc and would be an incentive NOT get committed, honestly.

    The Riddler might be fun to hang out with a the Asylum, so long as they could keep him from deathtrapping the place.

    Undead Scottsman on
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    -Tal-Tal Registered User regular
    Superman is the one I toe the hard line with cause a man of his abilities should encounter very few situations where killing is needed

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    I still kind of like the killing joke, the problem is that it exists in ongoing comics continuity

    To me, Killing Joke is THE ENDPOIND of batman/joker's shared narrative

    The fact that they had to escalate from there, what should have been the most horrible thing the joker ever did, ever? That's the kind of thinking that ruins the character for me

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Except his idea of help is a gothic stone lunatic asylum with gargoyles all over

    Man I would have leapt at the possibility of being committed if it had been to a place as sick as that

    No other health care facility will give you the option of eating someone, being eaten by someone (who may be a crocodile monster), or suddenly exploding when the crocodile monster man blows up a wall to escape

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

    https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    I miss the Joker being a person

    You can't put him in a room with another person and see what happens anymore, because now you KNOW it's going to be some dumb murder bullshit

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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    i like the page where jj shoots norman osborne

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Joker has been gradually dropping in my Batman villain rankings pretty much ever since I started reading comics

    He used to be part of my top 3

    Now he's barely in my top 10 I bet

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    GR_ZombieGR_Zombie Krillin It Registered User regular
    I still kind of like the killing joke, the problem is that it exists in ongoing comics continuity

    To me, Killing Joke is THE ENDPOIND of batman/joker's shared narrative

    The fact that they had to escalate from there, what should have been the most horrible thing the joker ever did, ever? That's the kind of thinking that ruins the character for me

    I've always loved Grant Morrison's interpretation of the last page of The Killing Joke as Batman killing the Joker, and that being the end of them both.

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    I still kind of like the killing joke, the problem is that it exists in ongoing comics continuity

    To me, Killing Joke is THE ENDPOIND of batman/joker's shared narrative

    The fact that they had to escalate from there, what should have been the most horrible thing the joker ever did, ever? That's the kind of thinking that ruins the character for me

    The continuing theme of Alan Moore accidentally causing some of the worse trends in comics.

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    ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    I miss the Joker being a person

    You can't put him in a room with another person and see what happens anymore, because now you KNOW it's going to be some dumb murder bullshit

    yeah at this point the idea that he has henchmen who choose to work for him is laughable

    I have a podcast about Power Rangers:Teenagers With Attitude | TWA Facebook Group
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    I miss the Joker being a person

    You can't put him in a room with another person and see what happens anymore, because now you KNOW it's going to be some dumb murder bullshit

    yeah at this point the idea that he has henchmen who choose to work for him is laughable

    hahaha

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Whoops now I'm doing this

    Best Major Batman Villains (totally off the top of my head so I assuredly missed some):
    1. Riddler
    2. Two-Face
    3. Penguin
    4. R'as Al Ghul
    5. Catwoman
    6. Bane
    7. Mr. Freeze
    8. Scarecrow
    9. Poison Ivy
    10. Calendar Man
    11. Black Mask
    12. Clayface
    13. Joker
    14. Hugo Strange
    15. Mad Hatter
    16. Killer Croc
    17. Ventriloquist
    18. Firefly
    19. Man-Bat
    20. Hush

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    I'd bump Hush up a bit because Batman Eternal was alright.

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Two-Face is the perfect mirror of Batman in so many ways. So he takes the cake for me.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    SimBen wrote: »
    I'd bump Hush up a bit because Batman Eternal was alright.

    I haven't read that, admittedly

    And there is stuff here like, obviously I'm not talking about current comics Mr. Freeze because the changes they made to him are terrible, but I guess I am talking about current comics Joker?

    I'll admit there was not a lot of logic and thought that went into that list

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Gustav wrote: »
    Two-Face is the perfect mirror of Batman in so many ways. So he takes the cake for me.

    Riddler heavily emphasizes the detective aspect of Batman comics

    A huge part of my love for him is because he brings out the best in Batman

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    Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    Just to clarify - I wasn't saying I liked the darker tone - just that DC obviously has pushed that element of Batman for quite awhile now. The day I could walk into my local comic shop and buy a deluxe edition of a trade that came with a Joker's Skin Mask made it pretty clear what direction they want to steer the series.

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