I'm not sure if I want to use x-axis for Roll and the rudders for Yaw. I think I'd rather switch them and control Yaw via left/right on the stick (at least for Elite Dangerous). I found target practice impossible with X-Axis = Roll.
Any thoughts?
if it feels better for you, go for it, but that would be a weird wya to control it
I dunno, I did google this topic and there are some people that seem to think that X-Axis for Roll is appropriate for flight sims (gravity/Earth-based) while X-Axis for Yaw is perhaps more appropriate for Space Sims.
I haven't used a flightstick or HOTAS in well over a decade so I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about this.
It may be problems with Elite itself. For one thing, "Flight Assist" keeps inexplicably activating seemingly at random. Second, I'm not sure how to target things, and my bullets seem to go straight through. I also find it very difficult to hone in on training targets with X-Axis = Roll.
You shouldn't need to home in on anything, you need to target things to shoot them. Shooting them by pointing your ship in their direction is never going to work.
The guns in the training target mission are also multicannons, which
a) suck
b) have a low effective range, so you need to be within a couple hundred metres
0
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
The limited yaw in Elite Dangerous throws a lot of people off at first since most of the older space sims give you a ton of yaw movement, but having yaw move as fast as pitch is a big part of what leads to the "turret in space" feeling. Elite Dangerous is more like flying an airplane in space. Yaw is for fine adjustments, but mainly you're rolling to orient yourself and then pulling up.
I noticed that too - I thought that was a sensitivity/configuration issue, but you're saying that that is by design?
Yes, you're not meant to use yaw as a meaningful part of your maneuvers.
That's interesting - if the point is realism, then it doesn't actually matter. Yaw and pitch would likely have the same performance.
EDIT: Also, humans are better at coping with lateral gs than vertical gs.
The limited yaw in Elite Dangerous throws a lot of people off at first since most of the older space sims give you a ton of yaw movement, but having yaw move as fast as pitch is a big part of what leads to the "turret in space" feeling. Elite Dangerous is more like flying an airplane in space. Yaw is for fine adjustments, but mainly you're rolling to orient yourself and then pulling up.
I noticed that too - I thought that was a sensitivity/configuration issue, but you're saying that that is by design?
Yes, you're not meant to use yaw as a meaningful part of your maneuvers.
*cry*
I guess I have to git gud with Pitch & Roll.
So far I have failed to shoot down any targets in the first training mission ("Target Practice") so I guess I have a while to go.
The limited yaw in Elite can definitely feel weird at first, but it makes the dogfights so much more interesting. Rewatch any of your favorite Star Wars dogfights and look at how the fighters move. Nobody's yawing when they want to chase after another ship and bring it into their sights; it's all rolling then pitching up.
The limited yaw in Elite Dangerous throws a lot of people off at first since most of the older space sims give you a ton of yaw movement, but having yaw move as fast as pitch is a big part of what leads to the "turret in space" feeling. Elite Dangerous is more like flying an airplane in space. Yaw is for fine adjustments, but mainly you're rolling to orient yourself and then pulling up.
I noticed that too - I thought that was a sensitivity/configuration issue, but you're saying that that is by design?
Yes, you're not meant to use yaw as a meaningful part of your maneuvers.
*cry*
I guess I have to git gud with Pitch & Roll.
So far I have failed to shoot down any targets in the first training mission ("Target Practice") so I guess I have a while to go.
A lot of the training missions are actually harder than real life combat, at least until the AI upgrades kicked in. I don't know about now.
I highly recommend buying gimballed weapons when you're first getting used to the flight model so you don't have to be as precise with you're targetting.
+1
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
The limited yaw in Elite can definitely feel weird at first, but it makes the dogfights so much more interesting. Rewatch any of your favorite Star Wars dogfights and look at how the fighters move. Nobody's yawing when they want to chase after another ship and bring it into their sights; it's all rolling then pitching up.
It's because they were shot to look like WW2 pacific theater dogfights. Like, Lucas copies, cut for cut, some of the black and white war movies filmed after the war. It's also the way we've been trained to understand the way dogfights work.
But roll and pitch up in space is, well, interesting. I mean, dogfights in any space sim throw realism out the window (Even Star Citizen, with it's complicated physics sim, is using unrealistic conventions because real space isn't conducive to a compelling interactive game), but rolling to get your enemy aligned to your y axis and then pitching up or down is an interesting design choice. It's gonna be hard to get used to, but now there's a ton of VR space sim stuff happening, so who knows.
The limited yaw in Elite Dangerous throws a lot of people off at first since most of the older space sims give you a ton of yaw movement, but having yaw move as fast as pitch is a big part of what leads to the "turret in space" feeling. Elite Dangerous is more like flying an airplane in space. Yaw is for fine adjustments, but mainly you're rolling to orient yourself and then pulling up.
I noticed that too - I thought that was a sensitivity/configuration issue, but you're saying that that is by design?
Yes, you're not meant to use yaw as a meaningful part of your maneuvers.
*cry*
I guess I have to git gud with Pitch & Roll.
So far I have failed to shoot down any targets in the first training mission ("Target Practice") so I guess I have a while to go.
A lot of the training missions are actually harder than real life combat, at least until the AI upgrades kicked in. I don't know about now.
Hmm, OK, thanks. I'll give it a fair shake. I mean, I just spent 400 bucks for this so I'm determined to become an expert one way or another.
I'm not sure if I want to use x-axis for Roll and the rudders for Yaw. I think I'd rather switch them and control Yaw via left/right on the stick (at least for Elite Dangerous). I found target practice impossible with X-Axis = Roll.
Any thoughts?
if it feels better for you, go for it, but that would be a weird wya to control it
I dunno, I did google this topic and there are some people that seem to think that X-Axis for Roll is appropriate for flight sims (gravity/Earth-based) while X-Axis for Yaw is perhaps more appropriate for Space Sims.
I haven't used a flightstick or HOTAS in well over a decade so I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about this.
It may be problems with Elite itself. For one thing, "Flight Assist" keeps inexplicably activating seemingly at random. Second, I'm not sure how to target things, and my bullets seem to go straight through. I also find it very difficult to hone in on training targets with X-Axis = Roll.
You shouldn't need to home in on anything, you need to target things to shoot them. Shooting them by pointing your ship in their direction is never going to work.
The guns in the training target mission are also multicannons, which
a) suck
b) have a low effective range, so you need to be within a couple hundred metres
The limited yaw in Elite can definitely feel weird at first, but it makes the dogfights so much more interesting. Rewatch any of your favorite Star Wars dogfights and look at how the fighters move. Nobody's yawing when they want to chase after another ship and bring it into their sights; it's all rolling then pitching up.
It's because they were shot to look like WW2 pacific theater dogfights. Like, Lucas copies, cut for cut, some of the black and white war movies filmed after the war. It's also the way we've been trained to understand the way dogfights work.
But roll and pitch up in space is, well, interesting. I mean, dogfights in any space sim throw realism out the window (Even Star Citizen, with it's complicated physics sim, is using unrealistic conventions because real space isn't conducive to a compelling interactive game), but rolling to get your enemy aligned to your y axis and then pitching up or down is an interesting design choice. It's gonna be hard to get used to, but now there's a ton of VR space sim stuff happening, so who knows.
Right, I'm saying Elite is taking the same WW2 dogfight approach as Star Wars. Instead of just moving your joystick in the direction of your target, you're maneuvering around like an X-wing (with lateral thrust commands added in). I was thrown off at first as well since I cut my teeth on X-wing/TIE Fighter and Wing Commander games, but I love Elite's flight model now.
Finally found the animated gif I was looking for:
This is how you fly in Elite (and ironically, not how you fly in the Star Wars sims.)
It's been so long, but I think most space games of that era had a sort of combined roll and yaw. The x-axis would have you yaw at about the same speed you'd pitch, but with a slight bit of roll added. At least with X-wing/TIE Fighter, you could hold down a key while joysticking the x-axis if you wanted to truly roll.
0
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited June 2016
Roll was a separate control, but in moving around a bunch, you'd roll at some point in tiny amounts until you had to straighten yourself out with the roll buttons.
Every space sim I've played, though, that made use of a joystick was x-axis to yaw, z-axis to roll (Either twist, or, more better, a paddle on the throttle.)
Elite's going to be interesting if I end up playing.
If my Rift every does arrive, that is.
EDIT: I mean, for sure, all the Wing Commander and Privateer games controlled like that. Descent controlled like that, though it wasn't a space sim. Terminal Velocity controlled like that.
I can't think of a single space sim where X was bound to roll by default.
What should I start with? What are the best games/etc for it overall?
My wife doesn't play many games, but she enjoyed the 2-3 minute demo of the Rift at PAX last year. Any thoughts on what would be fun for someone more casual?
What should I start with? What are the best games/etc for it overall?
My wife doesn't play many games, but she enjoyed the 2-3 minute demo of the Rift at PAX last year. Any thoughts on what would be fun for someone more casual?
Floor Plan is a somewhat cutesy puzzle game if she's into logic or puzzles or cutesy things which is not meant to be sexist because I also like cutesy things.
It looks like Cloudlands Minigolf has online multiplayer now (for over a month, but no one told me!); I think I may wind up taking the plunge this weekend. If anyone wants to mess around in it with me, I'm Fiatil on Steam!
Whoo, got my Rift tracking number! It's being shipped straight from Germany it seems, so it should be fast. Who knows, maybe I'll even get it tomorrow?
My wife doesn't play many games, but she enjoyed the 2-3 minute demo of the Rift at PAX last year. Any thoughts on what would be fun for someone more casual?
For someone like that I think I'd demo in this order:
Dreamdeck
Invasion!
Rose and I
Lost
Henry if she's really liking the short stories and wants another
Ocean Rift
BlazeRush
Apollo 11 (not the full experience, I'd only want to show the scenes I think are most impressive)
Showdown if she likes action movies
Farlands
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
For SteamVR, you can change your background, environment, the models for the controllers and lighthouses. http://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/workshop/
I.e I've subbed a set of the above in a Portal theme. Will muck around with it tomorrow.
Got my Rift. Setting it up. Unplugged my second monitor's HDMI cable, plugged in the Rift's. Hmmm, it's not registering. Unplugged that, and plugged back in my monitor's cable. It's not registering either.
Somehow in the act of unplugging my HDMI cable my graphics card's HDMI port just died or something? It's late and now I'm frustrated. Anyone have any ideas?
Got my Rift. Setting it up. Unplugged my second monitor's HDMI cable, plugged in the Rift's. Hmmm, it's not registering. Unplugged that, and plugged back in my monitor's cable. It's not registering either.
Somehow in the act of unplugging my HDMI cable my graphics card's HDMI port just died or something? It's late and now I'm frustrated. Anyone have any ideas?
what kind of graphics card do you have? brand, model, etc.
I'm in bed now, but I believe it's a GeForce 970 GTX
What brand?
The reason I ask is that a bunch of problems have been reported with Asus Strix cards, that their HDMI connector is super snug and can cause problems with the Rift.
This morning (two days after my birthday, so the timing isn't too bady) I got my "Your Oculus Rift Order is Shipping Soon!" message. Later this month I should get my GTX 1080. Can't say I'm entirely unexcited. :P
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I took the plunge and bought The Climb tonight. Haven't played it yet, but looking forward to it.
Awesome. That just ruined my weekend . Thanks for the info
you'll need to buy a few hdmi to displayport adaptors. one for the rift, one for your monitor. that will work fine.
Hmm! I hadn't thought of that. An HDMI to DisplayPort adapter will work for the Rift, too, huh?
Hey Dhalphir, why two? The GPU only has one Displayport output, so having two hdmi to displayport adaptors doesn't help?
This springs from a conversation we were having 2-3 weeks ago.
Most modern cards have 1 HDMI port and anywhere from 1-3 DisplayPorts (and possibly/probably VGA/DVI ports, too).
I have a 980 Ti and was using the only HDMI out on my video card to plug my PC directly into my HDTV. The Rift requires you connect it to an HDMI port on your video card. Thus, I had a problem.
I had to buy a DisplayPort to HDMI cable (I went with a cable, but an adapter will work too) so I could use one of the DisplayPorts on my card.
I don't really need to do anything else at this point, but my card has 3 DisplayPorts so I'm just musing that I could buy an adapter and actually use 2 DisplayPorts if I wanted to.
Boy, as someone who's used to the "buy it and go" environment of the Xbox, getting Minecraft set up to use Minecrift took a couple of hours longer than I was expecting.
But now it sort of works so I can kind of run around in a VR Minecraft which is kind of cool, although I've yet to figure out the best setup for turning.
Posts
You shouldn't need to home in on anything, you need to target things to shoot them. Shooting them by pointing your ship in their direction is never going to work.
The guns in the training target mission are also multicannons, which
a) suck
b) have a low effective range, so you need to be within a couple hundred metres
That's interesting - if the point is realism, then it doesn't actually matter. Yaw and pitch would likely have the same performance.
EDIT: Also, humans are better at coping with lateral gs than vertical gs.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
*cry*
I guess I have to git gud with Pitch & Roll.
So far I have failed to shoot down any targets in the first training mission ("Target Practice") so I guess I have a while to go.
multi cannons do not suck
A lot of the training missions are actually harder than real life combat, at least until the AI upgrades kicked in. I don't know about now.
It's because they were shot to look like WW2 pacific theater dogfights. Like, Lucas copies, cut for cut, some of the black and white war movies filmed after the war. It's also the way we've been trained to understand the way dogfights work.
But roll and pitch up in space is, well, interesting. I mean, dogfights in any space sim throw realism out the window (Even Star Citizen, with it's complicated physics sim, is using unrealistic conventions because real space isn't conducive to a compelling interactive game), but rolling to get your enemy aligned to your y axis and then pitching up or down is an interesting design choice. It's gonna be hard to get used to, but now there's a ton of VR space sim stuff happening, so who knows.
Hmm, OK, thanks. I'll give it a fair shake. I mean, I just spent 400 bucks for this so I'm determined to become an expert one way or another.
Ah.
Right, I'm saying Elite is taking the same WW2 dogfight approach as Star Wars. Instead of just moving your joystick in the direction of your target, you're maneuvering around like an X-wing (with lateral thrust commands added in). I was thrown off at first as well since I cut my teeth on X-wing/TIE Fighter and Wing Commander games, but I love Elite's flight model now.
Finally found the animated gif I was looking for:
This is how you fly in Elite (and ironically, not how you fly in the Star Wars sims.)
It's been so long, but I think most space games of that era had a sort of combined roll and yaw. The x-axis would have you yaw at about the same speed you'd pitch, but with a slight bit of roll added. At least with X-wing/TIE Fighter, you could hold down a key while joysticking the x-axis if you wanted to truly roll.
Every space sim I've played, though, that made use of a joystick was x-axis to yaw, z-axis to roll (Either twist, or, more better, a paddle on the throttle.)
Elite's going to be interesting if I end up playing.
If my Rift every does arrive, that is.
EDIT: I mean, for sure, all the Wing Commander and Privateer games controlled like that. Descent controlled like that, though it wasn't a space sim. Terminal Velocity controlled like that.
I can't think of a single space sim where X was bound to roll by default.
What should I start with? What are the best games/etc for it overall?
My wife doesn't play many games, but she enjoyed the 2-3 minute demo of the Rift at PAX last year. Any thoughts on what would be fun for someone more casual?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Floor Plan is a somewhat cutesy puzzle game if she's into logic or puzzles or cutesy things which is not meant to be sexist because I also like cutesy things.
It's also cheap.
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
For someone like that I think I'd demo in this order:
I don't use the HTC Home, but you can create 3D shortcuts of your applications which is neat.
https://www.htcvive.com/us/support/howto/720459.html
For SteamVR, you can change your background, environment, the models for the controllers and lighthouses.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/workshop/
I.e I've subbed a set of the above in a Portal theme. Will muck around with it tomorrow.
Somehow in the act of unplugging my HDMI cable my graphics card's HDMI port just died or something? It's late and now I'm frustrated. Anyone have any ideas?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
what kind of graphics card do you have? brand, model, etc.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
What brand?
The reason I ask is that a bunch of problems have been reported with Asus Strix cards, that their HDMI connector is super snug and can cause problems with the Rift.
Thread here - https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4gocqq/incredibly_snug_hdmi_connector_managed_to_jack_up/
Awesome. That just ruined my weekend
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
you'll need to buy a few hdmi to displayport adaptors. one for the rift, one for your monitor. that will work fine.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Do report!
Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.
I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
Hmm! I hadn't thought of that. An HDMI to DisplayPort adapter will work for the Rift, too, huh?
Hey Dhalphir, why two? The GPU only has one Displayport output, so having two hdmi to displayport adaptors doesn't help?
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
This springs from a conversation we were having 2-3 weeks ago.
Most modern cards have 1 HDMI port and anywhere from 1-3 DisplayPorts (and possibly/probably VGA/DVI ports, too).
I have a 980 Ti and was using the only HDMI out on my video card to plug my PC directly into my HDTV. The Rift requires you connect it to an HDMI port on your video card. Thus, I had a problem.
I had to buy a DisplayPort to HDMI cable (I went with a cable, but an adapter will work too) so I could use one of the DisplayPorts on my card.
I don't really need to do anything else at this point, but my card has 3 DisplayPorts so I'm just musing that I could buy an adapter and actually use 2 DisplayPorts if I wanted to.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
But now it sort of works so I can kind of run around in a VR Minecraft which is kind of cool, although I've yet to figure out the best setup for turning.