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This Thread Will Go Down in [History]

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Posts

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    On Morning Joe, Jon Meacham says Trump told him last year that he could've done a deal to stop the Civil War
    What is amazing is that Trump doesn't seem to get the only deal would involve expansion of slavery or something similar.

  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    I've always wondered if the confederate flag lovers ever notice that African Americans in the South never fly the confederate flag, even though they've lived in the area just as long, if not longer.


    Related: a house near work has recently started to fly a "Don't tread on me" flag. Which is odd, because this is in Canada. Naturally, the homeowners are white.

  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    I've always wondered if the confederate flag lovers ever notice that African Americans in the South never fly the confederate flag, even though they've lived in the area just as long, if not longer.

    They do. Serious traitor flag wavers make no pretense over why they love that flag.

    Mvrckchrishallett83masterofmetroidtynicvalhalla130Edith Upwards
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    Like, you could claim there were others causes to the Civil War, but the root of those causes was, you guessed it, slavery.

    Slavery was the cause of the Civil War, and I'm tired of hearing other wise.

    basically the most charitable you can be to that argument is "the south left the union to preserve slavery, and Lincoln went to war to preserve the union and didn't go into it with the intent of ending slavery"

    which, yes, it's worth remembering that the north as a whole didn't have the interests of black folk at heart, but it's disingenuous to say, "...and therefore, STATES' RIGHTS" because of that

    Shorty on
    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    ProhassFencingsax
  • JedocJedoc Take a look. It's in a book. It was always in a book, you fool.Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    i just finished watching the 1990s ken burns series on the civil war, but im really interested in what happened in the south in the following decades. Is there any documentaries or books on that period people would recommend? Even stuff that doesnt cover solely that period is fine.

    The Wars of Reconstruction by Douglas R. Egerton is a good one. It focuses on the extremely rapid strides African American politicians made at every level of government in the years immediately following the Civil War, and the powerful backlash that led to the end of Reconstruction and the origins of what would become Jim Crow America.

    After Lincoln by A.J. Langguth covers the same period, but focuses more on the Presidents and the top levels of government in explaining how and why Reconstruction failed. Basically reads like an unauthorized sequel to Team of Rivals.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
    ProhassEdith Upwards
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Like, you could claim there were others causes to the Civil War, but the root of those causes was, you guessed it, slavery.

    Slavery was the cause of the Civil War, and I'm tired of hearing other wise.

    basically the most charitable you can be to that argument is "the south left the union to preserve slavery, and Lincoln went to war to preserve the union and didn't go into it with the intent of ending slavery"

    which, yes, it's worth remembering that the north as a whole didn't have the interest of black folk at heart, but it's disingenuous to say, "...and therefore, STATES' RIGHTS" because of that

    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
    JayKaosShortychrishallett83masterofmetroidJoolanderfacetiousTofystedethSlacker71
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    So, does anyone have any suggestions for history podcasts? So far I have:

    Mike Duncan's History of Rome and Revolutions series.
    History of England (finally at King Henry VIII, at this rate Queen Elizabeth might be dead when he gets to Victoria)
    History of China (Just finished Tang Era)
    History of Japan
    History of the Papacy
    Queens of England.
    Dan Carlin.
    History of the Bible

    I highly recommend all of these series, but I need more... MORE.

    Amusingly, it was PA that introduced me to Mike Duncan a few years back, before he did revolutions, and Mike Duncan mentioned he was part of an American President podcast which mentioned the History of England podcast , which had an episode by the guy who did the history of the Papacy which.....

    Needless to say, I might be a bit..... addicted.

    History of Byzantium is good if you want to pick up the rest of the Roman story. You've already got all of my other ones :P

    DisruptedCapitalist
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Speaking of Mike Duncan, I liked his answer to the question "What did the rest of France, and the Wider European community, think of Charles X being replaced with Louis-Phillipe?"
    A shrug and an "Eh, he brought this on himself", mostly.

  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    BILLY STRIKES BACK: THE BILLYING

    So my boy Kaleb was sitting behind me in my history class. Directly behind him is FUCKIN BILLY. We're on to the 1960's now, and began talking about Vietnam and that whole shitty situation. Teacher shows us that real famous picture of the Buddhist monk self-immolating, and says "What does it take to make someone make that decision?" as a rhetorical device.

    FUCKIN' BILLY mumbles "Bad genetics." under his breath.

    AND I AM OVER HERE LIKE "WOW HOLY SHIT THAT IS WAAAAY LESS SUBTLE THAN YOU'VE BEEN IN THE PAST, JFC."

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    wow what a sack of shit

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    KadithMetzger MeisterRMS OceanictynicPhoenix-DMorivethDouglasDangerchrishallett83UrielSkeithZibblsnrtInquisitorDuke 2.0TrippyJinglonelyahavaintropkimeMadEddyfacetioussarukunDisruptedCapitalistmanwiththemachinegunFencingsaxAl_wateddizhereVegemyteTofystedethbalerbowerGundiSlacker71RainfallEdith Upwards
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    yeah, he's an absolute shit-heel.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    andrew jackson ordered the trail of tears to help stave off the civil war, which he viewed as inevitable eventually

    so

    good work trump

    ciiiiiiiiite

    American Lion by Jon Meachum

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    So on more mundane levels of history from the Grand Events Of The Past, if any of you want to gain an increased appreciation for the infinite fractal headache that is primary source research I highly recommend digging through genealogical records from before, oh, the mid-twentieth century.

    Couple highlights from my current search:
    • On a birth registration: "Date of Birth: Nova Scotia" ... good job, buddy!
    • Someone showing up in three separate censuses with three separate ages and three separate birth years, none of which line up at all (e.g., showing up as 33 in the 1911 census with an 1880s birthdate). The possible birth dates span twelve years. How can I tell it's the person I'm looking at? Why, her daughter shows up in the same household on those records, also with dates wildly at odds with each other on any level - but the given ages do at least sync with her mother. Mostly.
    • There are many census takers out there who have mastered the terrifying art of making "yes" and "no" look basically identical in the forms they're filling out. One of these people seems to be handling about a quarter of the documents I've been sifting so far.

    Contemplate these, and the fact that most of the well-produced, well-researched big works of history tend to be built on several poor, headachey bastards doing years and years of that with far less standardized material...

    tynicKwoaruGvzbgulintropMadEddyfacetiousJayKaosL Ron HowardJedocSlacker71
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I tried tracking down the first time my grandfather appeared on a census to confirm certain facts about him. He was born in 1911, the year the census took place, but after it (November, I think). So I look for the 1921 Census.

    Oops, some idiot junked the 1921 Census records. And there wasn't a 1931 Census. And the 1941 Census isn't public domain yet.

    Ffffffffffff

    KwoaruDuke 2.0tynicZibblsnrtSkeithL Ron HowardVegemyteTofystedeth
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Ouch - British censuses? I heard the 1931 one suffered from a dose of Some Dumbass Smoking On Site, kind of like what happened to US Army records from the Second World War.

    I've got a bunch of small gaps in mine that access to Canada's 1931 census would be wonderful for, but I'm trapped by that 92-year restriction. Blargh!

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    I'm thinking of using a $25 itunes gift card I got plus some extra scratch to get Ken Burn's Civil War documentary. Good idea? Y/N?

  • LalaboxLalabox Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Some good history books:

    King Leopold's Ghost is a fantastic book about the horrific atrocities of the Belgian Congo.

    Yo, so this is a bit late, but if you liked this book, then you should absolutely check out Dancing in the Glory of Monsters by Jason Stearns. It's an incredibly detailed history of the region since the DRC got its independence. It's incredibly well written, and is largely based around interviews and the human personalities that drove and were affected by all the various different regimes and conflicts. It's utterly fantastic.

    chrishallett83StraightziJedocLost Salient
  • facetiousfacetious a wit so dry it shits sandRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017
    As frustrating as researching primary sources with an actual end goal in mind can be, looking through primary sources is so fucking interesting and fun.

    18th century letters are the bomb, yo.
    ... when you can read their writing ...

    (I knew I had reached a certain point in my career as a historian when I didn't have to pause for even a nanosecond with the long 's'. It feels like forever ago that would trip me up.)

    facetious on
    "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
    Real strong, facetious.

    Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
    Zibblsnrtlonelyahava
  • The historical practice of writing over the writing in the letter you received and sending it back was true madness, I was looking at correspondence between Mary Shelly and her sister and it's like they were daring future persons to decipher the intricate chaos

    facetiousErlecDouglasDangerkimeFencingsaxEdith Upwards
  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    I could never cut it as a historian.

    I cant read handwritten script like at all.

    FencingsaxchromdomTofystedethvalhalla130
  • PlatyPlaty anything but regular Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    I could never cut it as a historian.

    I cant read handwritten script like at all.

    Being able to read period handwriting is an acquired skill

    It's something you have to train

    facetiousSkeith
  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    I could never cut it as a historian.

    I cant read handwritten script like at all.

    Being able to read period handwriting is an acquired skill

    It's something you have to train

    No see I mean, I can't even read contemporary handwritten script.

  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    The historical practice of writing over the writing in the letter you received and sending it back was true madness, I was looking at correspondence between Mary Shelly and her sister and it's like they were daring future persons to decipher the intricate chaos

    I'm sorry what?

    Gvzbgul
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Paper was expensive!

    facetiousDuke 2.0PlatysarukunDedwrekkaV1mMadEddyDisruptedCapitalistmasterofmetroidFencingsaxShortySkeithASimPersonTofystedethlonelyahavaSlacker71RainfallEdith Upwards
  • facetiousfacetious a wit so dry it shits sandRegistered User regular
    edited May 2017
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossed_letter

    Also I know a lot of people I generally agree with think requiring cursive in school is classist, and I think it certainly can be, but I do think it's very important for people to continue to learn it for historical research.

    And here's where my dilemma is. On the one hand, I don't think it should be required, but should certainly be offered. But... okay so, a friend of mine who also works in history and I normally respect his historical opinions recently said that "almost everything is already transcribed anyway", but like, that's not even remotely true. I myself have, even outside of work, transcribed a fair bit of stuff that people have never bothered to before. And furthermore, most of the stuff that has been transcribed is.. well, related to the most privileged people. A lot of common people, minorities, etc., haven't been given the same historical research as the "important" (read: white, usually male) historical figures.

    So I think it's extra important that the communities that are already underserved by historical research have the tools to find things that are unfortunately far too often ignored by the history establishment.

    facetious on
    "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
    Real strong, facetious.

    Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
    tynicMadEddyDisruptedCapitalistLost SalientEdith Upwards
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Offer cursive as an elective, sure. And if someone majors in history or something definitely have a class on it.

    I feel that there are far more valuable things to teach in the already overloaded curriculums of k-12 education though.

    Duke 2.0facetiousKayne Red RobePolaritieTofystedethMagellEdith Upwards
  • facetiousfacetious a wit so dry it shits sandRegistered User regular
    I agree with that too (though I think there are some things that could be dropped). Like I said, my feelings are mixed.

    "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde
    Real strong, facetious.

    Steam: Chagrin LoL: Bonhomie
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    I was a pretty dab hand at cursive when I was a kid

    but then I broke my hand and apparently also gave it amnesia because it barely remembers how to scrawl out regular letters now

  • JedocJedoc Take a look. It's in a book. It was always in a book, you fool.Registered User regular
    I was super bad at cursive. I used to get a B- on pretty much all of my handwriting sheets, which in 2nd grade is the equivalent of an F with detention.

    I'm pretty sure I was supposed to be left-handed, though, so that might have something to do with it. I used to just switch hands when I was coloring when one hand got tired, but my kindergarten teacher would take the crayon out of my left hand and put it in my right every time I did.

    I can still shoot pool and rifles equally well with either hand, so I definitely suspect there's some dominance v. practice shenanigans going on here.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
    Tofystedeth
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    My handwriting is horrible but I am ambidextrous as in the corps during advanced weapon training when they were showing us different rifles and other things the instructor was my previous DI so it was interesting to see him not as in your face about everything but he remarked that it's odd to see people that can switch hands like it's nothing

    DouglasDanger
  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    I can still kinda do print but sometimes do capitals when I'm supposed to do lower case. I was pretty good at cursive in like 4th grade.

    I'm just too used to typing.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I'm thinking of using a $25 itunes gift card I got plus some extra scratch to get Ken Burn's Civil War documentary. Good idea? Y/N?

    it's on netflix

    but yes buy it, it is possibly the most well done documentary series there is

    BrainleechJedocKwoaru
  • JedocJedoc Take a look. It's in a book. It was always in a book, you fool.Registered User regular
    I really need to get a new second monitor. Before my last one burned out, that was one of the things I had running on a near-constant loop while playing Civilization or other games without much dialog.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    you don't live near me, do you? I'm trying to get rid of a perfectly decent monitor that I just don't need. The donation store won't take computer equipment.

  • JedocJedoc Take a look. It's in a book. It was always in a book, you fool.Registered User regular
    On a scale of 1 to Mozambique, how close are you to Oklahoma City?

    GDdCWMm.jpg
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Jedoc wrote: »
    On a scale of 1 to Mozambique, how close are you to Oklahoma City?

    Saskatchewan.

    LaOs
  • JedocJedoc Take a look. It's in a book. It was always in a book, you fool.Registered User regular
    Saskatchewan...Oklahoma? You must be on the lee side of the prevailing winds, because I've never paid attention to that town during a tornado warning, which is the only way Oklahomans learn geography.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
    Tofystedeth
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    Jedoc wrote: »
    On a scale of 1 to Mozambique, how close are you to Oklahoma City?

    Saskatchewan.

    my condolences

    Al_watLaOs
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited May 2017
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I'm thinking of using a $25 itunes gift card I got plus some extra scratch to get Ken Burn's Civil War documentary. Good idea? Y/N?

    it's on netflix

    but yes buy it, it is possibly the most well done documentary series there is

    I should get Netflix at some point. But thanks! I'll be grabbing it and watch an episode tonight.

    Edit: I can apparently get a free month of Netflix!!! :D

    Inquisitor on
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Screwing Up Censuses, Easy Mode: Record three different birth dates for the same person in three successive censuses.

    Screwing Up Censuses, Hard Mode: Record three different birth countries for the same person in three successive censuses.

    (argh)

    chrishallett83tynicTofystedethkime
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