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This Thread Will Go Down in [History]

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Posts

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Just wanna say Romans did a lot of adopting and families were less "biological" in nature and more social

    But light hair did indeed run in that family

    Platy on
    Elvenshae
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »

    This guy's hot.

    Just a heads up, the guy didn't get named the "Enemy of all Mankind" for nothing. Just ask the people of Alexandria.
    So what you're saying is that he's a bad boy?

    cB557Elvenshae
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    Fencingsaxchrishallett83
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Also, blond hair isn't exactly uncommon in Italy today

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    romans were actually pretty prudish

    Gvzbgul
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    romans were actually pretty prudish

    Pompei grafitti tells another story.

    Gvzbgulvalhalla130Elvenshaechrishallett83
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited February 26
    V1m wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    romans were actually pretty prudish

    Pompei grafitti tells another story.

    Also, their comedies

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    Elvenshae
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Same as the Victorians, notoriously prudish, but also super horny.

    V1m
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    romans were actually pretty prudish

    Pompei grafitti tells another story.

    pompei was a resort town where people went to not be prudish

    chrishallett83
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    The Roman plays could get pretty horny, they were pretty much the Greek plays but more crass. Sometimes even having actual sex portrayed on stage. However, not too crass as whenever the plays were too rude there was public outcry and disapproval. So it happened, but it didn't seem to be normal.

    IIRC

  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »

    This guy's hot.

    Just a heads up, the guy didn't get named the "Enemy of all Mankind" for nothing. Just ask the people of Alexandria.
    It's funny, I checked his wikipedia page to see what his deal was earlier, and it's like "he enfranchised a bunch of people, minted a new type of coin, made a really big bath," and I'm thinking huh, sounds like a pretty cool guy, "commited massacres, plural" oh.

    He ‘enfranchised’ nearly everyone...because only 'enfranchised' AKA Roman Citizens were obligated to pay taxes. In the long run, this may have contributed in a roundabout way to the Fall of the Roman Empire. Previously, getting Roman Citezenship was a Big Deal. Now that it was just being given away, people stopped caring as much about being part of the Empire.

    StraightziMidnite
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    you guys all know so much about olden times, and I'm like

    who's my governor again, is it Arnold? no, wrong state. The Crack Guy? no I think he's Canadian

  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I forget this sort of stuff fairly regularly, I've just been on a big Rome kick recently for unrelated reasons

  • you guys all know so much about olden times, and I'm like

    who's my governor again, is it Arnold? no, wrong state. The Crack Guy? no I think he's Canadian

    No you're right, your governor is named Arnold and they smoke crack, boy do they

    DepressperadoDuke 2.0Slacker71Elvenshae
  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    you guys all know so much about olden times, and I'm like

    who's my governor again, is it Arnold? no, wrong state. The Crack Guy? no I think he's Canadian

    No you're right, your governor is named Arnold and they smoke crack, boy do they

    Actually, he's dead from cancer...and his awful brother is our Premier (equivalent to Governor.)

    Depressperado
  • I am referring to Govenor Arnold of State X not the Ford family criminal syndicate

  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    Whoops, responded to the wrong comment.

  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    I love roman busts. My favourite is the famous one of Caracalla.

    800px-Caracalla_MAN_Napoli_Inv6033_n01.jpg

    So much emotion.

    This guy's hot.

    Beefy Justin Timberlake.

    Elvenshaehonoverechrishallett83
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    romans were actually pretty prudish

    Pompei grafitti tells another story.

    pompei was a resort town where people went to have some rompei-pompei

    Solarvalhalla130JusticeforPlutoDepressperadoJedocStraightziFencingsaxPlatychromdomPolaritieGundiMetzger MeisterIronKnuckle's GhosttynicV1mDiarmuidDuke 2.0LaOsSlacker71ElvenshaesarukunGvzbgulKayne Red RobeL Ron Howardchrishallett83furlionDisruptedCapitalistVegemyteSkeithMadpoetknitdanAl_wat
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    romans were actually pretty prudish

    Pompei grafitti tells another story.

    pompei was a resort town where people went to have some rompei-pompei

    A most excellent post

    valhalla130V1mLaOsSlacker71Elvenshaesarukunchrishallett83VegemyteSkeith
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    romans were actually pretty prudish

    Pompei grafitti tells another story.

    pompei was a resort town where people went to have some rompei-pompei

    mods???

    Kana
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Well you have to remember that the Romans were super keen on fucking. Every time all the time was a good time as far as they were concerned. Gotta expect a lot of gene transfer in that situation.

    romans were actually pretty prudish

    Not really. Romans were very "performativly prudish". Like, IIRC Cato the younger berated a women for wearing silks so sheer that "all who look upon her know her as completely as her husband". Which might suggest that they were prudes, but also tells us that they were definitely dressing provocatively for the time. Octavian's attempts to reform roman marriage also gives us some evidence that they were pretty open about who and how much they were fucking. There were so many attempts at cultural "reform" that we have more evidence that they were being naughty than that they were prudes.

    Also the sexual custom was entirely different from our own. Much was based on the concept of dominance. It wasn't considered cheating to screw someone of the same or opposite sex as long as you maintained the dominant position. Ignoring also that slaves basically didn't count in anyone's opinion.

    It's a bit more modernist of me I guess, but the very idea that Roman could be conservative about sex is an astounding bit of logic acrobatics for the Romans. This is the group that, in their national origin myth, was founded on a group so uniformly awful that they resorted to mass kidnapping and rape to further their society. Which they were 100% aware was a bad thing.

    V1mYoshisummonsKana
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    There are also some good
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    cB557 wrote: »
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »

    This guy's hot.

    Just a heads up, the guy didn't get named the "Enemy of all Mankind" for nothing. Just ask the people of Alexandria.
    It's funny, I checked his wikipedia page to see what his deal was earlier, and it's like "he enfranchised a bunch of people, minted a new type of coin, made a really big bath," and I'm thinking huh, sounds like a pretty cool guy, "commited massacres, plural" oh.

    He ‘enfranchised’ nearly everyone...because only 'enfranchised' AKA Roman Citizens were obligated to pay taxes. In the long run, this may have contributed in a roundabout way to the Fall of the Roman Empire. Previously, getting Roman Citezenship was a Big Deal. Now that it was just being given away, people stopped caring as much about being part of the Empire.
    "Rome" (western Rome) fell mainly because of just getting so darn big that expansion was unfeasible, and the overhead or maintaining its territory became untenable. Oh and also lots of corruption because all empires forever and always lead to massive corruption.

    FencingsaxErlec
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I think trying to categorize Roman society as being definitively prudish or licentious is a severe misunderstanding of the magnitude of Rome as an entity

    Like, we're talking about an empire that spanned a thousand years and occupied significant portions of Europe and the Mediterranean

    Even if we're looking at just one specific year of Rome, you still have the geographical expanse and the social strata to contend with

    And of course this is all based on the records that we have, which are inconsistent and often exaggerated

    cB557DouglasDangerFencingsaxSlacker71ElvenshaesarukunKayne Red RobeJusticeforPlutoL Ron Howardchrishallett83VegemyteMidnite
  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    This is the same group of people who would spill gallons of ink and talk till they were blue in the face about how they were simple farmers, nothing more, and certainly not a military juggernaut who acquired new territory all the time.

    In other words, any culture lies about its nature all the time, whether they were a historical powerhouse or not.

    StraightziShortyDedwrekkaFencingsaxDuke 2.0Slacker71ElvenshaesarukuntynicYoshisummonsJusticeforPlutoL Ron Howardchrishallett83furlionMidnite
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Understanding this requires some additional understanding of how they saw family. Genetic heritage was not how you passed down your family name, position or power. It was passed through marriage. Every emperor of the Julio-Claudian dynasty was no closer to the others than a grand nephew.
    Gaius was gruncle to Octavian
    Caligula was great-nephew to Tiberius who is the stepson of Octavian.
    Claudius was the great nephew of Octavian.
    Nero was the great nephew of Claudius.
    I don't think Gaius Julius was even a genetic ancestor of Nero.

    Fencingsax
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    That seems like an odd complexion for a Roman. Do you get many ginger people in the Mediterranean?

    thracians and gauls were classically attributed as having many redheads, so gingers absolutely existed in the late roman period

    Nero is of the Julio-Claudian dynasty though

    I wouldn't say it's impossible, and we don't really have a lot of information on the appearance of the non-emperor members of that family

    But it does seem unusual for an old Roman family

    Understanding this requires some additional understanding of how they saw family. Genetic heritage was not how you passed down your family name, position or power. It was passed through marriage. Every emperor of the Julio-Claudian dynasty was no closer to the others than a grand nephew.
    Gaius was gruncle to Octavian
    Caligula was great-nephew to Tiberius who is the stepson of Octavian.
    Claudius was the great nephew of Octavian.
    Nero was the great nephew of Claudius.
    I don't think Gaius Julius was even a genetic ancestor of Nero.

    Oh I'm well aware

    They are a predominately central Italian family still though, despite the weird way that they were formed, which does make the complexion feel... notable

    Which also is probably why we have Suetonius writing about it

  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    edited February 26
    And yeah, Gaius Julius Caesar isn't a genetic ancestor of any member of the dynasty, as we generally think of it.

    The dynasty really begins with Augustus, who was Gaius Julius's nephew.

    Gaius Julius's actual children aren't really a part of things - Augustus had Caesarion (who might not even have really been his kid) killed at 17, and his daughter Julia was married to Pompey but died in childbirth (along with the child).

    Straightzi on
    Fencingsax
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »

    This guy's hot.

    Just a heads up, the guy didn't get named the "Enemy of all Mankind" for nothing. Just ask the people of Alexandria.

    When your tyranny starts with murdering your brother in front of your mother things can only go downhill.

    MuzzmuzzFencingsaxElvenshaechrishallett83
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited February 26
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    I love roman busts. My favourite is the famous one of Caracalla.

    800px-Caracalla_MAN_Napoli_Inv6033_n01.jpg

    So much emotion.

    This guy's hot.

    Beefy Justin Timberlake.

    Yes, thank you. I knew he reminded me of some celebrity.
    edit: looking at othe busts of him, he might've also looked like John C. Reilly
    255px-Caracalla_Louvre.jpg

    honovere on
    chrishallett83
  • JuggernutJuggernut South CurrrrlinaRegistered User regular
    Dingus Maximus.

    Captain Inertia
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    "Rome" (western Rome) fell mainly because of just getting so darn big that expansion was unfeasible, and the overhead or maintaining its territory became untenable. Oh and also lots of corruption because all empires forever and always lead to massive corruption.

    I mean, there were a lot of things. Wealth concentration in the hands of a very few, the effects of slavery, and lead consumption leading to a stupider ruling class were other reasons. And yes I may have worded those in a certain way to draw some modern parallels.

    valhalla130DouglasDangerElvenshaekime
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    There are a million reasons Western Rome fell. It took several hundred years to decline.

    I feel that ultimately the fact that they lost slave influx (because they stopped winning external wars) which greatly hurt their economy and suffered through population decline through plague and civil war in the third century.
    The demographics shift in that 100 years is significant.

    These 3 things made the Western lands less valuable for the Constantinople emperors, as it meant less tax income and less people to defend the border.

    And then various tribes start showing up and they have to negotiate, giving away land and rights and money and suffer defeats.

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
    StraightzicB557Gvzbgul
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    I feel that ultimately the fact that they lost slave influx (because they stopped winning external wars) which greatly hurt their economy

    Slavery greatly distorted labor markets and disincentivized investments outside the household, slaves also mainly contributed to elite wealth which was more difficult for the government to access

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited March 13
    I found history yesterday!

    Prehistorical History!

    I was looking for fossilized shells to inlay into the guitar I'm making and found a tooth that as near as I can tell came from a Merychippus or Pliohippus (both early horse ancestors that lived between 5 and 15 million years ago). I've found a bunch of shark teeth, but this is the first mammal tooth I've ever found!

    this is the one I found
    mv03lvv0vwzy.jpg

    this is my find angled the same way as the next picture
    vmi9qji76e9l.jpg

    this one is from a museum
    y37sft4vyprn.jpg

    this one is from a study on prehistoric horse teeth
    pm8nq3t1h449.jpg



    Xaquin on
    tynicfurlionElvenshaeStraightziDouglasDangerMetzger MeisterDedwrekkaL Ron HowardIronKnuckle's GhostJedocvalhalla130GvzbgulToxcB557TynnanPlatykimeRMS Oceanicsarukunchrishallett83MagellhonovereSkeithCaptain InertiaKetarFencingsaxJuggernut
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Cool, though probably a better fit for the science thread.

    Tits! Tits! Tits! Tits! Tits! Tits!
  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    Cool, though probably a better fit for the science thread.

    Natural history

  • JedocJedoc Take a look. It's in a book. It was always in a book, you fool.Registered User regular
    Paleontologists were into history when it was underground.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
    ElvenshaeKayne Red RobeRMS OceanicsarukuncB557Dedwrekkachrishallett83XaquinIvarL Ron HowardhonovereSkeithTynnankimeMvrckFencingsax
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 13
    Jedoc wrote: »
    Paleontologists were into history when it was underground.

    Nice sneakers, Dad. Please go check the food cooking on the grill. Your glasses are on your forehead.

    DouglasDanger on
    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    Shorty
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Al Muqaddimah. This pop history channel got recommended to me pretty recently and while it isn't that old it's pretty neat. What separates it from most most history channels is its focus: specifically Islamic history. It's also unique in that the channel's author is Pakistani, although he admits he's both an amateur history enthusiast and also not really a practicing muslim despite being raised as one. Still the production values are nice, and the information is accurate. (if, like most channels, a bit on the simplified side)

    RMS Oceanic
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