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This Thread Will Go Down in [History]

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Posts

  • OghulkOghulk biggest externality low-energy economistRegistered User regular
    Skeith wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I graduate with a history degree in two days. Yesterday I received one of the awards for best senior honors thesis in history.

    If anyone is interested in reading my paper (58 pages) PM me and I'll send a link. It's...interesting I guess.

    Topic?

    How henry 8 and Elizabeth 1st used their newfound legal powers from Henry's reformation to induce coal production on prosperous, but not highly utilized, land in the Durham-Northumberland region

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    lonelyahavaPolaritieIronKnuckle's GhostKwoaruV1mRMS OceanicSlacker71
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    People in antiquity did drink lots if water

    http://leslefts.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-great-medieval-water-myth.html?m=1

    That's neat , always heard people avoided plain water.

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    FencingsaxJayKaos
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Proto Indo European is interesting yet a lot of the info I find on it is some new age BS usually and sadly

    Yeah, you tend to have to go down the journal rabbitholes to find neat stuff. I came across a really neat article a few months ago (one of the journal publishers had a free weekend for downloading electronic copies of their history/archaeology journals and I, ah, indulged myself) looking at reconstructions of PIE military/etc terms (weapons, conflict-related terms, poetic diction, etc) and trying to tentatively reconstruct a bit of what the original speakers' culture may have been like.

    It's both neat how much can receive fairly educated guesses from what we have, but also sad at how wispy and antiseptic the results are when you think about how complex any culture extant or extinct can get. I can dig up the article if you're curious.

    People in antiquity did drink lots if water

    http://leslefts.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-great-medieval-water-myth.html?m=1

    That's neat , always heard people avoided plain water.

    I wonder if early modern/modern city water basically being composed of liquid death as often as not informed that sort of thing. "Why, if water isn't safe to drink on Broad Street in the glorious modern year 1854, it must have been most horrific indeed in medieval times!"

    On that note, Dr. Snow's figuring out the cause of the cholera outbreak in 1854 London is amazing, one of the first cases of hauling largescale datasets around and using visualization to study them, and is a case of a time and place where you actually did benefit from sticking to beer because it was safer than the water.

    JayKaosBrainleech
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    i have a history degree ama

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Did anyone else think Oghulk's award was for best thesis in all of history?

    Just me?

    Ok then.

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  • OghulkOghulk biggest externality low-energy economistRegistered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Did anyone else think Oghulk's award was for best thesis in all of history?

    Just me?

    Ok then.

    it's pretty great having this shiny certificate in a nice frame to hang alongside my new Bachelor's Degree

    raoADVy.png
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Dubh wrote: »
    my seminar classes seemed a lot less demanding than doing a senior thesis (hello, I graduated last year with a history degree)

    I wanted to do a senior thesis out of principle, but my mental state was garbage and no way no how

    It took me about 2 years to get the fuck up and write my thesis in about 2 and a half weeks.

    My advisor was a fucking saint

    Classics major, by the way.

    Fencingsax on
    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    A Quaker objector in the Civil War:
    I was ordered out and required to fall in line with the company and drill, but I refused. They tried to make me and I sat down on the ground. They reminded me of the orders to shoot me, but I told them my God said to fear them not that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather to fear him that is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. The company was then ordered to fall back eight paces, leaving me in front of them. They were then ordered by Colonel Kirkland to ‘Load; Present arms; Aim,’ and their guns were pointed directly at my breast. I raised my arms and prayed: ‘Father, forgive them; they know not what they do.’ Not a gun was fired. They lowered them without orders, and some of them were heard to say that they ‘could not shoot such a man.’ The order was then given, ‘Ground arms.’

    After weeks of such punishment, William Hockett was captured at Gettysburg and released to live in Philadelphia. He remained there until the end of the war.

    RCmKIvs.gif
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  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    I always liked the Quakers. Pretty decent folks for their time period. Against war, slavery. Had (somewhat) peaceful interactions with Natives. Was okay with women taking part in church activities.

    I mean, that's not a high bar, but compared with other churches, that seems quite radical, even by today's standards glares at Catholicism

    lonelyahavaStraightziZibblsnrtSkeithMetzger MeisterDarth Waiterchrishallett83SolarcB557Midnite
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    According to IR legend, during the 1982 Falklands War, Margaret Thatcher persuaded Francois Mitterand to prevent the sale of additional Exocet anti-ship missiles to Argentina by personally implying that the missiles posed such a severe operational risk to the British task force that her government would see no alternative but to deploy nuclear weapons against Argentina.

    this almost certainly didn't happen but it is a very Thatcher thing to do

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    I always liked the Quakers. Pretty decent folks for their time period. Against war, slavery. Had (somewhat) peaceful interactions with Natives. Was okay with women taking part in church activities.

    I mean, that's not a high bar, but compared with other churches, that seems quite radical, even by today's standards glares at Catholicism

    Remember Nixon was also a Quaker one of the last of California

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    chrishallett83IronKnuckle's GhostSlacker71
  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    ...I need to play World of Warships.

    DarkPresence
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    Lost SalientRMS OceanicUsagi
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    ...I need to play World of Warships.

    it's... alright. community is still awful, but not quite as absolutely monstrous as world of tanks

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    @IronKnuckle's Ghost I don't even play the game, but I love when Jingles does a ship overview


    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    IronKnuckle's GhostZibblsnrt
  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    ...I need to play World of Warships.

    it's... alright. community is still awful, but not quite as absolutely monstrous as world of tanks

    Ideally I'd like a single player fleet tactics game with WWII-era ships. And since nobody wants to make that, I guess I have to put up with people.

    Uriel
  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    I still need to git gud at ww1 and 2 flight Sims.

    Planes are the best.

    @DaMoonRulz we should both save up and do one of those ww2 bomber tours someday.

    IronKnuckle's Ghost
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    I still need to git gud at ww1 and 2 flight Sims.

    Planes are the best.

    @DaMoonRulz we should both save up and do one of those ww2 bomber tours someday.

    That'd be a lot of saving! but it'd be pretty cool

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    Uriel
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    According to IR legend, during the 1982 Falklands War, Margaret Thatcher persuaded Francois Mitterand to prevent the sale of additional Exocet anti-ship missiles to Argentina by personally implying that the missiles posed such a severe operational risk to the British task force that her government would see no alternative but to deploy nuclear weapons against Argentina.

    this almost certainly didn't happen but it is a very Thatcher thing to do

    Most countries are pretty forgiving when their allies sell decisive weapons to nations they're at war with.

  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    ...I need to play World of Warships.

    it's... alright. community is still awful, but not quite as absolutely monstrous as world of tanks

    Though it has the St. Louis, which is the ultimate "I'm having a grumpy day and need to orbital-bombardment the crap out of someone" vessel.

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    The Difference Between Massachussetts Bay Colony and Rhode Island: Mary Dyer, a friend of Anne Hutchinson and recent convert to Quakerism, was hanged on Boston Common on this date in 1660.

    From Sarah Vowell's "The Wordy Shipmates":

    In The Witches of Eastwick, a novel set in a fictional, seemingly dull Rhode Island village, John Updike tips his hat to Rhode Islands weirdo founders. Satan moves to town and wonders why the alluring local witches live in such a humdrum place. “Tell him Narragansett Bay has always taken oddballs in,” says one witch to another, “and what’s he doing up here himself?”

    That said, Williams’s colony is hardly utopia. There is as much internecine squabbling— if not more— going on there as there is in Massachusetts.

    In 1672, the sixty-nine-year-old Williams himself will wage a vicious war of words with the colony’s Quakers because he believes they have “set up a false Christ.” The Quaker belief in the “God within” each person is anathema to a Bible-based Calvinist like Williams, who writes in his screed against Quaker founder George Fox, "George Fox Digg’d Out of his Burrowes", “they preached the Lord Jesus to be themselves.” Williams even holds a three-day-long debate in Newport with three Quakers. “The audience, mostly Baptists and Quakers,” writes Perry Miller, “heckled him with cries of ‛old man, old man,’ and whispered, after he had on the first day shouted himself hoarse in order to get any hearing, that he was drunk.” (More than three decades after John Cotton accused Williams of missing God’s point back in Salem when he smote him with laryngitis, he was once again struck dumb during a spree of punditry.)

    Here is the important difference between Massachusetts Bay and Narragansett Bay. Quakers such as Mary Dyer are hanged in Boston Common. In Rhode Island, there is bickering, but there is no banishing. There are mean-spirited spiritual debates, but no forced and freezing hikes of exile. (excerpt)

    Image: Mary Dyer Statue on Boston Common, Corner of Bowdoin and Beacon

    13350312_10154257994094343_6734358926524410031_o.jpg

    @builderr0r @tynic and other Boston-area residents who may have passed by without knowing the history

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    tynicStraightziMetzger MeisterDarth WaiterThe Hanged ManDisruptedCapitalistMatevcB557
  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    You know...

    Sometimes I wish monuments like this were more explicit.

    I want things like that to read the way that the bricks in sidewalks all over Europe do. "Here lived [name], - deported 1942, murdered in Auschwitz on 18.9.1943," is much more effective and meaningful in my opinion than however large a statue without any information.

    RUVCwyu.jpg
    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
    tynic
  • Dead LegendDead Legend Registered User regular
    Witness for religious freedom, hanged on Boston common

    Pretty cut and dry to me. I like it!

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  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    You're right, I really was more thinking of other monuments I've walked by a dozen times only to realize later were kind of important/about things that we did as a country that suuuucked

    RUVCwyu.jpg
    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
    Dead Legend
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I think the statue of Harvard in Harvard Yard should have a disclaimer on it

    *not actually John Harvard
    ** we don't know what he looked like
    *** it's just some dude

    although I guess that would deprive all the tour guides of a fun tidbit to tell people.

    Lost SalientGvzbgulKwoaruSkeithDisruptedCapitalistcB557LoisLane
  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    I just learned that those brass or whatever bricks all over... all over everywhere I've been in Europe at least... have a name! They're called stolpersteins and were created by Gunter Demnig.

    I don't know if anyone else who isn't an EU resident has noticed them when traveling to Europe, but they're incredibly powerful. At least to me, because you'll be walking down some alley in some town and then there's a single brass cobblestone and it lists the name of someone who was deported and murdered.

    dVTRM1X.jpg

    "Stolperstein" means "stumbling stone," which I also find... apt? I suppose?

    RUVCwyu.jpg
    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
    tynicThe Hanged ManDead LegendZellpherTofystedethcB557
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    yeah, literally "stumbling blocks"

    they're super powerful and emotive and their very understatedness is part of that, imo

    Lost SalientFencingsaxlonelyahavaRainfallSlacker71
  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    yeah, literally "stumbling blocks"

    they're super powerful and emotive and their very understatedness is part of that, imo

    I didn't know they were called that, but you're absolutely right! It's the fact that they're just there, and you glance to see what it is and realize so quickly. It's not the same project but I felt that way about all the buildings I saw in certain towns/cities with plaques on doorways or walls. It really brings to bear the width and breadth of the tragedy in a way that a number in a textbook doesn't.

    RUVCwyu.jpg
    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
    tyniclonelyahava
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    I think the statue of Harvard in Harvard Yard should have a disclaimer on it

    *not actually John Harvard
    ** we don't know what he looked like
    *** it's just some dude

    although I guess that would deprive all the tour guides of a fun tidbit to tell people.

    I heard John Harvard was 7 feet tall and could carry a horse with one arm

    2x39jD4.jpg
    tynicPlatyDisruptedCapitalistSlacker71
  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    tynic wrote: »
    I think the statue of Harvard in Harvard Yard should have a disclaimer on it

    *not actually John Harvard
    ** we don't know what he looked like
    *** it's just some dude

    although I guess that would deprive all the tour guides of a fun tidbit to tell people.

    I heard John Harvard was 7 feet tall and could carry a horse with one arm

    he'll save children, but not the british children?

    KwoaruTofystedeth
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    tynic wrote: »
    I think the statue of Harvard in Harvard Yard should have a disclaimer on it

    *not actually John Harvard
    ** we don't know what he looked like
    *** it's just some dude

    although I guess that would deprive all the tour guides of a fun tidbit to tell people.

    I heard John Harvard was 7 feet tall and could carry a horse with one arm

    he'll save children, but not the british children?

    The MIT children but yes

    2x39jD4.jpg
  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    tynic wrote: »
    I think the statue of Harvard in Harvard Yard should have a disclaimer on it

    *not actually John Harvard
    ** we don't know what he looked like
    *** it's just some dude

    although I guess that would deprive all the tour guides of a fun tidbit to tell people.

    I heard John Harvard was 7 feet tall and could carry a horse with one arm

    That's unusual. Most horses don't have any arms.

    Kwoaruchrishallett83FearghailltynicChallTofystedethSlacker71
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Roger Williams asked the two Narragansett sachems, the elderly Canonicus, and his younger nephew, Miantonomi, for permission to settle. Williams drew up a deed and the two men signed with their marks— a bow for Canonicus and an arrow for Miantonomi. Williams was proud of the fact that he did not buy the land. Rather it was a gift and a grant. He later boasted, “It was not price nor money that could have purchased Rhode Island. . . . Rhode Island was purchased by love.”

    The site of the original settlement is preserved in downtown Providence as the Roger Williams National Memorial. There, the compass and sundial Williams probably carried with him on the traumatic nature hike that got him here are on display. (excerpt)
    1902_3_1w.jpg

    —Sarah Vowell in "The Wordy Shipmates"

    A Gift and A Grant Day of Note: Narragansett Chief Sachem Canonicus, friend of Roger Williams and ally of the British during the Pequot War, died on this date in 1647. (this date being Yesterday)

    DaMoonRulz on
    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    Darth WaiterIronKnuckle's Ghost
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    So one hundred years and four days ago, the Battle of Jutland concluded, the largest naval battle of WW1 and the only one in which Battleships came to blows. The outcome was inconclusive; Germany sunk more tonnage, but had failed to cripple the British fleet or break the blockade, and would never again risk their irreplaceable fleet in such a grand battle.

    Fast forward to four days ago:

    2015-05-27_new_9910757_I4.JPG

    HMS Caroline, light cruiser and last surviving participant in Jutland, has opened as a museum ship in Belfast

    XaquinMetzger MeisterDarth WaiterFencingsaxSolarKanaSkeithZellpherLost SalientVegemytechrishallett83MatevIronKnuckle's GhostHefflingSlacker71
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    if we're going to talk about naval warfare, we gotta discuss the most important and least decisive battles of the last 300 years
    The Dual of the Ironclads
    Monitor, to the surprise of Virginia's crew, had emerged from behind the Minnesota and went straight for the approaching Virginia and positioned herself between her and the grounded Minnesota, preventing the Confederate ironclad from further engaging the vulnerable wooden ship at close range. At 8:45 am Worden gave the order to fire where Greene fired the first shots of the battle between the two ironclads which harmlessly deflected off the Confederate ironclad. During the battle Monitor fired solid shot, about once every eight minutes, while Virginia fired shell exclusively.[108] The ironclads generally fought at close range for about four hours, ending at 12:15pm,[109] [l] ranging from a few yards to more than a hundred. Both ships were constantly in motion, maintaining a circular pattern. Because of Virginia's weak engines, massive size and weight and with a draft of 22 ft (6.7 m), she was slow and difficult to maneuver, taking her half an hour to complete a 180-degree turn.[111]

    During the engagement, Monitor's turret began to malfunction, making it extremely difficult to turn and stop at a given position, so the crew simply let the turret continuously turn and fired their guns "on the fly" as they bore on Virginia. Several times, Monitor received direct hits on the turret, causing some bolts to violently shear off and ricochet around inside. The deafening sound of the impact stunned some of the crew, causing nose and ear bleeding.[112][113] However, neither vessel was able to sink or seriously damage the other. At one point, Virginia attempted to ram, but only struck Monitor a glancing blow and did no damage. The collision did, however, aggravate the damage to Virginia's bow from when she had previously rammed Cumberland. Monitor was also unable to do significant damage to Virginia, possibly due to the fact that her guns were firing with reduced charges, on advice from Commander John Dahlgren, the gun's designer, who lacked the "preliminary information" needed to determine what amount of charge was needed to "pierce, dislocate or dislodge iron plates" of various thicknesses and configurations.[56][114] [m] During the battle Stodder was stationed at the wheel that controlled the turning of the turret but at one point when he was leaning against its side the turret received a direct hit directly opposite to him which knocked him clear across the inside, rendering him unconscious, at where he was taken below to recover and relieved by Stimers.[106][115]

    The two vessels were pounding each other at such close range, they also managed to collide with one another at five different times.[116] By 11:00 am Monitor's supply of shot in the turret had been used up. With one of the hatches to the gun ports damaged and jammed shut she hauled off to shallow waters to resupply the turret and effect repairs to the damaged hatch, which could not be repaired. During the lull in the battle Worden climbed through the gun port out onto the deck to get a better view of the overall situation. Virginia, seeing Monitor turn away turned her attention to the Minnesota and fired shots that set the wooden vessel ablaze, also destroying the nearby tugboat Dragon. When the turret was resupplied with ammunition Worden returned to battle with only one gun in operation.[117]

    Towards the end of the engagement, Worden directed Williams to steer the Monitor around the stern of Confederate ironclad, where Lieutenant Wood fired his 7-inch Brooke gun at the vessel's pilothouse, striking the forward side directly beneath the sight hold, cracking the structural "iron log" along the base of the narrow opening just as Worden was peering out.[118] Worden was heard to have cried out, My eyes—I am blind! Others in the pilothouse had also been hit with fragments and were also bleeding.[119] Temporarily blinded by shell fragments and gunpowder residue from the explosion and believing the pilothouse to be severely damaged, Worden ordered Williams to sheer off into shallow water, where Virginia with her deep draft could not follow. There Monitor drifted idly for about twenty minutes.[120] At the time the pilothouse was struck Worden's injury was only known to those in the pilothouse and immediately nearby. With Worden severely wounded, command passed to the Executive Officer, Samuel Greene. Taken by surprise and confused he hesitated briefly and was undecided as to what action to take next,[119] but after assessing the damage soon ordered Monitor to return to the battle area.[106][117][121]

    Shortly after Monitor withdrew , Virginia had run aground at which time Commander Jones came down from the spar deck only to find the gun crews not returning fire. Jones demanded to know why and was briefed by Lieutenant Eggleston that powder was low and precious and given Monitor's resistance to shot after two hours of battle, maintained that continued firing at that point would only be a waste of ammunition.[26] Virginia soon managed to break away and headed back towards Norfolk, believing that Monitor had withdrawn from battle. Greene, now in command, did not pursue Virginia[122] and, like Worden, was under orders to stay with and protect the Minnesota,[123] an action for which he was later criticized.

    Why was the battle so significant? As soon as that battle occurred, every single other navy in the world was rendered completely irrelevant as a result of the massive technological leap. A single ironclad could destroy a blockade, and 5 of them could take on an entire armada with minimal losses and damage.

    USS_Monitor_James_River_1862.jpg
    image of the damage to the monitor

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    The Revolutions Podcast starts up again tonight/tomorrow, covering the story of Simon Bolivar and Gran Colombia

    I have been jonesing something fierce

    KanacB557
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    they gonna do anything on de San Martin/Bolivar?

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    They gonna do anything on Bolivar Trask?

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    You gonna take your Bolivar and go home if they don't?

    Darth Waiter
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