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This Thread Will Go Down in [History]

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Posts

  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I present to you, history thread:

    Ancient Roman Mapquest

    The year is 200 AD, and you need to get from one part of the massive Roman empire to another. You have access to sea routes, rivers, and roads (which you can travel on foot, in a carriage, aboard a wagon, or riding on a donkey). You can control for which season you are traveling in, and choose your route not only based on time and distance, but by cost (in denarii) as well).

    You will have to use the Roman names for cities, which might be a bit of a challenge if you don't do this sort of thing all the time. But it's super fun, give it a try.

    tynicMatevUrielSkeithMayabirdDarth WaiterNijaDisruptedCapitalistRMS Oceanicchrishallett83sarukunVegemyteintropobolon84Rainfall
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Solar wrote: »
    Sherman was an extremely good general who begged the south to not secede or cause war because he believed that the only real union response in the long run was a brutal stomping and that's exactly what he intended to give them in order to try and force them into submission (he wrote a letter to this effect, basically saying you'll lose and lose hard).

    He hated war (told a graduating class at west point that it was hell) but didn't regret stuff like the burning of Atlanta because he saw it as a strategic necessity. His reputation as mean old Sherman mostly looks like sour grapes to me.

    shermans actions and motivations are very complicated, but his reputation is earned by crippling the southern economy even further and absolutely demolishing the post-bellum souths chances of rebuilding their infrastructure in any reasonable time

    he did it to crush the morale and end the war quicker though

    I mean shit, his greatest rival from the war, confederate general joe johnston was a fucking pall bearer at his funeral, and the guy refused to wear a hat because he respected sherman so much

    he caught a cold and got pneumonia and died several days later

    PiptheFair on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    also sherman abhorred politics, and told the republican party if they nominated him for president he would refuse to run and if he still won he would refuse to serve

    shame about the whole indian wars thing

  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    Thanks for the Sherman insights.

    DisruptedCapitalist
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Speaking of Shermans....

    @chrishallett83 @Darth Waiter @weaver

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    Darth Waiter
  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    edited June 2016
    So the Canadians (and some Canadian-adjacent) in the house may be familiar with the Heritage Minutes - a series of short vignettes highlighting important moments and figures in Canadian history. They were all over TV in the 90s, and reached a level of cultural saturation that when @Beavotron moved to LA she said that quoting favourite Heritage Minutes was a reliable way to tell real Canadians from people pretending to be to be different. For the most part, they were fairly celebratory, focusing on overlooked heroes and triumphs in our nation's history. The group that made them, Historical Canada, started making new ones again in recent years, and the latest is... Not so celebratory. It is important though, as it's calling out one of the worst things this country has ever done, in a survivor's own words, and pulling no punches,

    Fearghaill on
    Tef
  • TefTef Registered User regular
    Yeah fuck man, that's powerful. Australia has a terrible history with genocide of the aboriginal people too

    chrishallett83
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    I knew of the Heritage Minutes as it was one of the things I ran across on youtube one night

  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    if we're going to talk about naval warfare, we gotta discuss the most important and least decisive battles of the last 300 years
    The Dual of the Ironclads
    Monitor, to the surprise of Virginia's crew, had emerged from behind the Minnesota and went straight for the approaching Virginia and positioned herself between her and the grounded Minnesota, preventing the Confederate ironclad from further engaging the vulnerable wooden ship at close range. At 8:45 am Worden gave the order to fire where Greene fired the first shots of the battle between the two ironclads which harmlessly deflected off the Confederate ironclad. During the battle Monitor fired solid shot, about once every eight minutes, while Virginia fired shell exclusively.[108] The ironclads generally fought at close range for about four hours, ending at 12:15pm,[109] [l] ranging from a few yards to more than a hundred. Both ships were constantly in motion, maintaining a circular pattern. Because of Virginia's weak engines, massive size and weight and with a draft of 22 ft (6.7 m), she was slow and difficult to maneuver, taking her half an hour to complete a 180-degree turn.[111]

    During the engagement, Monitor's turret began to malfunction, making it extremely difficult to turn and stop at a given position, so the crew simply let the turret continuously turn and fired their guns "on the fly" as they bore on Virginia. Several times, Monitor received direct hits on the turret, causing some bolts to violently shear off and ricochet around inside. The deafening sound of the impact stunned some of the crew, causing nose and ear bleeding.[112][113] However, neither vessel was able to sink or seriously damage the other. At one point, Virginia attempted to ram, but only struck Monitor a glancing blow and did no damage. The collision did, however, aggravate the damage to Virginia's bow from when she had previously rammed Cumberland. Monitor was also unable to do significant damage to Virginia, possibly due to the fact that her guns were firing with reduced charges, on advice from Commander John Dahlgren, the gun's designer, who lacked the "preliminary information" needed to determine what amount of charge was needed to "pierce, dislocate or dislodge iron plates" of various thicknesses and configurations.[56][114] [m] During the battle Stodder was stationed at the wheel that controlled the turning of the turret but at one point when he was leaning against its side the turret received a direct hit directly opposite to him which knocked him clear across the inside, rendering him unconscious, at where he was taken below to recover and relieved by Stimers.[106][115]

    The two vessels were pounding each other at such close range, they also managed to collide with one another at five different times.[116] By 11:00 am Monitor's supply of shot in the turret had been used up. With one of the hatches to the gun ports damaged and jammed shut she hauled off to shallow waters to resupply the turret and effect repairs to the damaged hatch, which could not be repaired. During the lull in the battle Worden climbed through the gun port out onto the deck to get a better view of the overall situation. Virginia, seeing Monitor turn away turned her attention to the Minnesota and fired shots that set the wooden vessel ablaze, also destroying the nearby tugboat Dragon. When the turret was resupplied with ammunition Worden returned to battle with only one gun in operation.[117]

    Towards the end of the engagement, Worden directed Williams to steer the Monitor around the stern of Confederate ironclad, where Lieutenant Wood fired his 7-inch Brooke gun at the vessel's pilothouse, striking the forward side directly beneath the sight hold, cracking the structural "iron log" along the base of the narrow opening just as Worden was peering out.[118] Worden was heard to have cried out, My eyes—I am blind! Others in the pilothouse had also been hit with fragments and were also bleeding.[119] Temporarily blinded by shell fragments and gunpowder residue from the explosion and believing the pilothouse to be severely damaged, Worden ordered Williams to sheer off into shallow water, where Virginia with her deep draft could not follow. There Monitor drifted idly for about twenty minutes.[120] At the time the pilothouse was struck Worden's injury was only known to those in the pilothouse and immediately nearby. With Worden severely wounded, command passed to the Executive Officer, Samuel Greene. Taken by surprise and confused he hesitated briefly and was undecided as to what action to take next,[119] but after assessing the damage soon ordered Monitor to return to the battle area.[106][117][121]

    Shortly after Monitor withdrew , Virginia had run aground at which time Commander Jones came down from the spar deck only to find the gun crews not returning fire. Jones demanded to know why and was briefed by Lieutenant Eggleston that powder was low and precious and given Monitor's resistance to shot after two hours of battle, maintained that continued firing at that point would only be a waste of ammunition.[26] Virginia soon managed to break away and headed back towards Norfolk, believing that Monitor had withdrawn from battle. Greene, now in command, did not pursue Virginia[122] and, like Worden, was under orders to stay with and protect the Minnesota,[123] an action for which he was later criticized.

    Why was the battle so significant? As soon as that battle occurred, every single other navy in the world was rendered completely irrelevant as a result of the massive technological leap. A single ironclad could destroy a blockade, and 5 of them could take on an entire armada with minimal losses and damage.

    USS_Monitor_James_River_1862.jpg
    image of the damage to the monitor

    Yeah what is incredible about this is that the battle followed the complete annihilation of wooden vessels by the CSS Virgina, and then the Monitor arrived and they both essentially bounced off each other. It was a leap forward in naval warfare which was unparalleled by almost any other invention in the field of warfare ever.

    the virginia essentially took on the entire blockade by herself, and took out 3 warships the previous day

    every single naval power in the world that learned about that battle collectively shat themselves

    Late but this is basically American mythologising.

    The Royal Navy and the French had dozens of ironclads each by the time of this battle. France launched an ocean going ironclad in 1859 (the Glorie) and Britain raised them in 1860 with HMS Warrior (Which was twice the size of the Virginia, could cross the Atlantic, and had thicker armour). Ironclad turreted batteries had been deployed in the Crimean war nearly a decade earlier (after the Russia black sea fleet was pretty much beaten though so they didn't make much fanfare). It wasn't a revolution so much as a 'no fucking duh' moment of a shipbuilding trend that had started in the early 1850s and every major european power had already bought into.

    The reason why the lessons of the American Civil War fell out of favour was because off all the wars between it and the Russo-Japanese war in the 19th century (Franco-German, Balkan wars etc) were very different (fast paced wars of maneuver), not because the Europeans dismissed the Americans. They ended up shrugging their shoulders and thought it was an anomoly

    Dis' on
    StraightziGvzbgulchrishallett83Al_watintropBahamutZERO
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    So the Canadians (and some Canadian-adjacent) in the house may be familiar with the Heritage Minutes - a series of short vignettes highlighting important moments and figures in Canadian history. They were all over TV in the 90s, and reached a level of cultural saturation that when @Beavotron moved to LA she said that quoting favourite Heritage Minutes was a reliable way to tell real Canadians from people pretending to be to be different. For the most part, they were fairly celebratory, focusing on overlooked heroes and triumphs in our nation's history. The group that made them, Historical Canada, started making new ones again in recent years, and the latest is... Not so celebratory. It is important though, as it's calling out one of the worst things this country has ever done, in a survivor's own words, and pulling no punches,


    I want to awesome this but the video seems to somber. I think it's absolutely essential for a nation to own up to their worst actions. (*cough* America *cough*)

    JayKaosFearghaillZibblsnrtSlacker71
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    So the Canadians (and some Canadian-adjacent) in the house may be familiar with the Heritage Minutes - a series of short vignettes highlighting important moments and figures in Canadian history. They were all over TV in the 90s, and reached a level of cultural saturation that when @Beavotron moved to LA she said that quoting favourite Heritage Minutes was a reliable way to tell real Canadians from people pretending to be to be different. For the most part, they were fairly celebratory, focusing on overlooked heroes and triumphs in our nation's history. The group that made them, Historical Canada, started making new ones again in recent years, and the latest is... Not so celebratory. It is important though, as it's calling out one of the worst things this country has ever done, in a survivor's own words, and pulling no punches,


    I want to awesome this but the video seems to somber. I think it's absolutely essential for a nation to own up to their worst actions. (*cough* America *cough*)

    Historica Canada is an independent organization, the Canadian government continues to blithely ignore the events.

    The American equivalent is the various Ken Burns documentaries. You can pick up any of his amazing docs and find a ton of shameful history mixed in that casts a dark shadow on the American Narrative. Especially The West, The Civil War, and The War which neatly skewer the great American identity narratives.

    There's plenty of people within both nations that acknowledge and want to address the worst aspects of our nation's past, but that doesn't represent government acknowledgment of the issues.

  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Gundi wrote: »
    Fearghaill wrote: »
    So the Canadians (and some Canadian-adjacent) in the house may be familiar with the Heritage Minutes - a series of short vignettes highlighting important moments and figures in Canadian history. They were all over TV in the 90s, and reached a level of cultural saturation that when @Beavotron moved to LA she said that quoting favourite Heritage Minutes was a reliable way to tell real Canadians from people pretending to be to be different. For the most part, they were fairly celebratory, focusing on overlooked heroes and triumphs in our nation's history. The group that made them, Historical Canada, started making new ones again in recent years, and the latest is... Not so celebratory. It is important though, as it's calling out one of the worst things this country has ever done, in a survivor's own words, and pulling no punches,


    I want to awesome this but the video seems to somber. I think it's absolutely essential for a nation to own up to their worst actions. (*cough* America *cough*)

    Historica Canada is an independent organization, the Canadian government continues to blithely ignore the events.

    The American equivalent is the various Ken Burns documentaries. You can pick up any of his amazing docs and find a ton of shameful history mixed in that casts a dark shadow on the American Narrative. Especially The West, The Civil War, and The War which neatly skewer the great American identity narratives.

    There's plenty of people within both nations that acknowledge and want to address the worst aspects of our nation's past, but that doesn't represent government acknowledgment of the issues.

    nah.

    http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2015/12/15/statement-prime-minister-release-final-report-truth-and-reconciliation-commission
    The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, issued the following statement after receiving the Final Report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission:

    “The Indian residential school system, one of the darkest chapters in Canadian history, has had a profoundly lasting and damaging impact on Indigenous culture, heritage, and language. As a father and a former teacher, I am overwhelmingly moved by these events.

    “Seven years ago the Government of Canada apologized for this abhorrent system. The apology is no less true, and no less timely, today. The Government of Canada ‘sincerely apologizes and asks forgiveness of the Aboriginal peoples of this country for failing them so profoundly’.

    “Today, on behalf of the Government of Canada, I have the honour of accepting the Commission’s Final Report. It is my deepest hope that this report and its findings will help heal some of the pain caused by the Indian residential school system and begin to restore the trust lost so long ago.

    “To the former Indian residential school students who came forward and shared your painful stories, I say: thank you for your extraordinary bravery and for your willingness to help Canadians understand what happened to you. As the previous government expressed so eloquently in its formal apology: your courage ‘is a testament to [your] resilience as individuals and to the strength of [your] cultures...The burden of this experience has been on your shoulders for far too long. The burden is properly ours as a government, and as a country’.

    “Moving forward, one of our goals is to help lift this burden from your shoulders, from those of your families, and from your communities. It is to accept fully our responsibilities – and our failings – as a government and as a nation.

    “This is a time of real and positive change. We know what is needed is a total renewal of the relationship between Canada and Indigenous peoples. We have a plan to move towards a nation-to-nation relationship based on recognition, rights, respect, cooperation and partnership, and we are already making it happen.

    “A national inquiry into missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls is now underway. Ministers are meeting with survivors, families, and loved ones to seek their input on how best to move forward. We have also reiterated our commitments to make significant investments in First Nations education, and to lift the two per cent cap on funding for First Nations programs.

    “And we will, in partnership with Indigenous communities, the provinces, territories, and other vital partners, fully implement the Calls to Action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, starting with the implementation of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

    “We recognize that true reconciliation goes beyond the scope of the Commission’s recommendations. I am therefore announcing that we will work with leaders of First Nations, Métis Nation, Inuit, provinces and territories, parties to the Indian Residential School Settlement Agreement, and other key partners, to design a national engagement strategy for developing and implementing a national reconciliation framework, informed by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s recommendations.

    “The Government of Canada is committed to walking a path of partnership and friendship with Indigenous peoples. Today’s Final Report marks a true milestone on that journey. Again I thank the survivors, their families, and communities for this monumental achievement towards healing and reconciliation. I also thank Commission Chair Justice Murray Sinclair, and Commissioners Chief Wilton Littlechild and Dr. Marie Wilson who worked tirelessly to bring to light the truth about residential schools in Canada.”

    Trudeau set the tone for his approach to dealing with First Nations from the literal start of his time as Prime Minister - the swearing-in of his government opened with an acknowledgement that it was being held on traditionally native land, featured a First Nations drum dance, inuit throat singers, and a Metis fire dance, and he named a former First Nations chief as the Justice Minister/Attorney General.

    DedwrekkaBrainleechDarth WaiterSkeithZibblsnrtsarukunDysRainfallSlacker71
  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    I mean, that was absolutely true of the previous government. Harper apologized for the Residential Schools, but his government still refused to sign on to the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, would not commit toimplementing any part of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report (Trudeau has pledged to implement all of it), and looked for any loophole they could find to avoid paying out compensation to Residential School survivors.

    ZibblsnrtRainfall
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Let's talk about globes.

    I love globes, you guys. I own several, from the totally decorative (this one opens up and was originally designed as a cigarette holder) to the historically notable (my oldest globe is from around 1937, I believe). I love maps too, but globes are the best way to depict everything on a global scale, so they're pretty much the best.

    I'm going to talk about some globes a bit older than 1937 though.

    This is the Erdapfel (earth apple):

    6202647612_c6aa7b5e42_b.jpg

    It is the oldest surviving terrestrial globe, created in 1492. Here's roughly what it depicts:

    Carte_behaim.JPG

    So you might notice a thing or two. Or rather, the absence of a thing or two. The Americas and Australia were not represented, as the creator was not aware of them when he made the globe. There are a lot of mistakes in the continent shapes that are present as well. You might also find, if you were able to read that map (sorry for the image quality), Saint Brendan's Isle, an island in the North Atlantic that is most notable for not actually existing.

    The globe itself linen ball reinforced with wood, with the map overlaid on top of it.

    Our next globe is the Hunt-Lenox globe:

    163_hunt-lenox-x_ac0c5c1d0c.jpg

    This was, until recently, considered to be the oldest surviving terrestrial globe with any representation of the New World (circa 1510). Here's a better look:

    Lennox_Globe%2C_by_B.F._Da_Costa.png

    Still not doing great there. A curious little thing you might find on this one is down in Southeast Asia, where the Latin words HC SVNT DRACONES (hic sunt dracones) appear. This is one of the only known actual occurrences of this phrase, which means "Here there are dragons."

    The globe itself is a hollow copper ball, the two sides of it joined together with wire.

    But remember how I said that it was considering to be the oldest surviving terrestrial globe with any representation of the New World until recently? Let's check out the new hotness:

    Ostrich_Egg_Globe_Oldest_New_World_1.jpg

    Ostrich_Egg_Globe_Oldest_New_World_2.jpg

    This is a recently discovered and dated globe that is made out of the halves of two ostrich eggs, from around 1500-1504. We don't know a whole lot about it, but there are a number of details (including spelling mistakes, continent shape, and the iconic HC SVNT DRACONES) that suggest that the Hunt-Lenox was copied directly from this globe.

    So instead of looking at another map projection, let's focus on how gorgeous the craftsmanship is here:

    Ostrich_Egg_Globe_Oldest_New_World_4.jpg

    That is engraving work, for the record, which means that the Hunt-Lenox may not have just been copied from this globe - it may have been cast from it.

    Straightzi on
    DouglasDangerTheodore FlooseveltXaquintynicIronKnuckle's GhostSkeithDisruptedCapitalistMetzger Meisterlonelyahavachromdomvalhalla130FearghaillNijaToxchrishallett83MayabirdRMS OceanicBrainleechUrielFencingsaxPolaritieTofystedethErlecsarukunThe Hanged ManHefflinghonovereCrimson KingRainfallBahamutZEROSlacker71LoisLane
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    That's awesome

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    XaquintynicDisruptedCapitalistMetzger Meisterlonelyahavavalhalla130Dis'FearghaillToxchrishallett83FencingsaxTofystedethsarukunRainfallLoisLane
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    On July 6, the League bullied King Kalakaua into signing the paper reducing his office to that of figurehead. The document was nicknamed the “Bayonet Constitution.” If the king had refused to cooperate with his usurpers, [Sanford B. Dole]had written to his brother beforehand, “He will be promptly attacked, and a republic probably declared.” The cabinet Kalakaua was forced to accept included Lorrin Thurston as minister of the interior. (excerpt)
    —Sarah Vowell in "Unfamiliar Fishes"

    Cooperate With His Usurpers Day of Note: On this date in 1887 King Kalakaua was forced to sign the Bayonet Constitution which made race a determinate of democratic rights—stripping both non-white residents and Native Hawaiians of rights and increasing the power of Americans.

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    The ancient Minoans of Crete were so influential that even their shoes were trendy and traded long distances. At one point, the Hammurabi, king of Babylon, he of the eponymous Code of Hammurabi, received a royal gift of leather Cretan shoes from Zimri-Lim, king of the kinda-sorta former ally city/nation of Mari (located in what is now the western border of Syria). The shoes were returned. Within a decade, Hammurabi conquered Mari. History does not record if the two events were related.

    DouglasDangerMvrckRainfall
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Fuck your Jordans
    And fuck you

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    7/20/1969.

    Never Forget.

    You jerks.

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    DisruptedCapitalistFencingsaxchromdomMetzger MeisterlonelyahavaThe Hanged ManSlacker71
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    7/20/1969.

    Never Forget.

    You jerks.
    (7/20)/1969
    0.0001777552

    Xaquin
  • UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Now I feel like watching a documentary about the Apollo program.

    What a cool thing to come out of a political arms race dick waving contest huh?

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Traditional jade carving techniques

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    XaquinBrainleech
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Uncle Sam's New Class in the Art of Self-Government Day of Note: U.S. troops led by General Nelson A. Miles began invading Puerto Rico on this date in 1898.
    From "Unfamiliar Fishes":
    I came across a political cartoon on the cover of Harper's Weekly from August 27, 1898. Above the caption “Uncle Sam’s New Class in the Art of Self-Government,” Uncle Sam poses as a schoolmaster in a classroom festooned with a world map in which little American flags are planted on the barely visible island dots of Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Cuba, and the Philippines. A barefoot, frowning boy wearing a dunce cap labeled “Aguinaldo” represents the Filipino revolutionary who began the Spanish-American War as an American ally against Spain; but after Spain surrendered and handed over the Philippines to the United States, Aguinaldo led the guerilla war against his new American colonizers. Uncle Sam is trying to break up a fight between two other barefoot boys, one wearing a satchel marked “Cuban Ex-Patriot” and the other a belt marked “Guerilla” meant to symbolize the unruly discontentment of Cuban freedom fighters also dismayed that their American allies in the fight against Spain for Cuba libre had just become their new colonial overlord. Meanwhile, off to the side, two good little girls, their headdresses identifying them as “Hawaii” and “Porto Rico,” have their noses in the books they are quietly reading. Presumably because well-behaved Hawaii and Puerto Rico have politely and graciously accepted the blessings of annexation without any back talk. (excerpt)
    —Sarah Vowell in "Unfamiliar Fishes"
    13692929_10154400422609343_6415266810808767694_o.jpg
    William Allen Rogers, " Uncle Sam's new cl[ass in] the art of self-government" Harper's Weekly Cover 8.27.1898
    13708399_10154400422974343_5995226553495827229_o.jpg
    Louis Dalrymple, "School begins" Puck (magazine) Illustration 1.25.1899

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    Uncle Sam's New Class in the Art of Self-Government Day of Note: U.S. troops led by General Nelson A. Miles began invading Puerto Rico on this date in 1898.
    From "Unfamiliar Fishes":
    I came across a political cartoon on the cover of Harper's Weekly from August 27, 1898. Above the caption “Uncle Sam’s New Class in the Art of Self-Government,” Uncle Sam poses as a schoolmaster in a classroom festooned with a world map in which little American flags are planted on the barely visible island dots of Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Cuba, and the Philippines. A barefoot, frowning boy wearing a dunce cap labeled “Aguinaldo” represents the Filipino revolutionary who began the Spanish-American War as an American ally against Spain; but after Spain surrendered and handed over the Philippines to the United States, Aguinaldo led the guerilla war against his new American colonizers. Uncle Sam is trying to break up a fight between two other barefoot boys, one wearing a satchel marked “Cuban Ex-Patriot” and the other a belt marked “Guerilla” meant to symbolize the unruly discontentment of Cuban freedom fighters also dismayed that their American allies in the fight against Spain for Cuba libre had just become their new colonial overlord. Meanwhile, off to the side, two good little girls, their headdresses identifying them as “Hawaii” and “Porto Rico,” have their noses in the books they are quietly reading. Presumably because well-behaved Hawaii and Puerto Rico have politely and graciously accepted the blessings of annexation without any back talk. (excerpt)
    —Sarah Vowell in "Unfamiliar Fishes"
    13692929_10154400422609343_6415266810808767694_o.jpg
    William Allen Rogers, " Uncle Sam's new cl[ass in] the art of self-government" Harper's Weekly Cover 8.27.1898
    13708399_10154400422974343_5995226553495827229_o.jpg
    Louis Dalrymple, "School begins" Puck (magazine) Illustration 1.25.1899

    Holy shit, this pisses me off.

    lonelyahavaDouglasDanger
  • JedocJedoc I fought THE POD and THE POD wonRegistered User regular
    "The consent of the governed is a good thing in theory, but very rare in fact." Valuable political tip: if you ever hear that coming from a podium with a flag behind it, start eyeing the nearest border.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
    chrishallett83tynic
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    Uncle Sam's New Class in the Art of Self-Government Day of Note: U.S. troops led by General Nelson A. Miles began invading Puerto Rico on this date in 1898.
    From "Unfamiliar Fishes":
    I came across a political cartoon on the cover of Harper's Weekly from August 27, 1898. Above the caption “Uncle Sam’s New Class in the Art of Self-Government,” Uncle Sam poses as a schoolmaster in a classroom festooned with a world map in which little American flags are planted on the barely visible island dots of Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Cuba, and the Philippines. A barefoot, frowning boy wearing a dunce cap labeled “Aguinaldo” represents the Filipino revolutionary who began the Spanish-American War as an American ally against Spain; but after Spain surrendered and handed over the Philippines to the United States, Aguinaldo led the guerilla war against his new American colonizers. Uncle Sam is trying to break up a fight between two other barefoot boys, one wearing a satchel marked “Cuban Ex-Patriot” and the other a belt marked “Guerilla” meant to symbolize the unruly discontentment of Cuban freedom fighters also dismayed that their American allies in the fight against Spain for Cuba libre had just become their new colonial overlord. Meanwhile, off to the side, two good little girls, their headdresses identifying them as “Hawaii” and “Porto Rico,” have their noses in the books they are quietly reading. Presumably because well-behaved Hawaii and Puerto Rico have politely and graciously accepted the blessings of annexation without any back talk. (excerpt)
    —Sarah Vowell in "Unfamiliar Fishes"
    13692929_10154400422609343_6415266810808767694_o.jpg
    William Allen Rogers, " Uncle Sam's new cl[ass in] the art of self-government" Harper's Weekly Cover 8.27.1898
    13708399_10154400422974343_5995226553495827229_o.jpg
    Louis Dalrymple, "School begins" Puck (magazine) Illustration 1.25.1899

    Holy shit, this pisses me off.

    It's a great book that takes you through the ups and downs of Hawaii turning to a Monarchy, trying to give itself to England, and the struggles of a fading ruling class...

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    Jedoc
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Yeah, Unfamiliar Fishes is a fascinating one

    I mean, all of Sarah Vowell is great, I just have some personal connections to Hawaii so there was some extra hard hitting stuff in that one

    tynic
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    chrishallett83
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Jack and Jill went up the hill
    To fetch a pail of water.
    Jack fell down and broke his crown,
    And Jill came tumbling after.


    We all know the rhyme. Where did this bit of nonsense come from? According to one theory, satire.

    King Charles I (the one who was beheaded for treason) had financial troubles throughout his reign. Legally, only Parliament could raise taxes but Charles was asking for various new taxes all the time and often turned to tricks when taxes failed. At one point, he wanted to revise taxes on liquids, which was refused. In order to raise revenue anyway, Charles had the liquid measurement of a jack reduced. A jack was a half pint and was used often in taverns and bars. Because a jack became smaller, he could raise more money even though the tax per jack stayed the same. It was successful, so the size of the gill (a quarter pint) was also reduced soon after.

    Slacker71
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    I don't really play World of Warships (the community is still hot garbage) very often anymore but it looks like a pretty fun ship to play. Good guns, doesn't move like a whale, unique playstyle.

    Gundi on
  • JedocJedoc I fought THE POD and THE POD wonRegistered User regular
    For me, WWII-era warships really drive home the amount of ingenuity and industry that humans put into warfare in a way that modern missile carriers somehow don't. I think it's because guided missiles just seem like witchcraft, but building a floating iron city that can fire explosive shells the size of a refrigerator just barely fits into my brain.

    It kind of makes me wish I could go back in time and trick the world in 1935 into thinking that the secret of world domination was on Mars. We'd probably have Trader Joe's there by now.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
    BahamutZERO
  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    Hell, think about modern Nimitz-class supercarriers. Literally a mobile, nuclear-powered, floating city/airport. Capable of operating 24 hours a day in all weather, in every part of the world, projecting air power into any country.

    Carriers aren't as sexy as battleships, in part due to the nostalgia of the BBs bristling with main guns, secondary guns, and AA turrets, surrounded by her many escorts, but the Age of the Aircraft Carrier started with the nadir of the battleship.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    This is a reliquiary for the skeleton of a "catacomb saint" who was given the name of Pancratius and probably one of the most badass things I've ever seen

    Wikipedia wrote:
    Catacomb saints are ancient Roman corpses that were exhumed from the catacombs of Rome, given fictitious names and sent abroad as relics of saints from the 16th century to the 19th century.[1] They were typically lavishly decorated with gold and precious stones.[2]

    RMS OceanicMetzger MeisterVegemyteBahamutZERO
  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    I'm reading a really good book about relics right now! Pancratius is featured in the photographs.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I'm reading a really good book about relics right now! Pancratius is featured in the photographs.

    What's the name of the book

    lonelyahava
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Hell, think about modern Nimitz-class supercarriers. Literally a mobile, nuclear-powered, floating city/airport. Capable of operating 24 hours a day in all weather, in every part of the world, projecting air power into any country.

    Carriers aren't as sexy as battleships, in part due to the nostalgia of the BBs bristling with main guns, secondary guns, and AA turrets, surrounded by her many escorts, but the Age of the Aircraft Carrier started with the nadir of the battleship.

    The BX on the Enterprise was the go to place while at sea
    Mindboggling huge compared to the rather questionable places I had to deal with while on board the LHA-1 USS Tarawa aka people were the last thing we thought of while building the vessel

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Hell, think about modern Nimitz-class supercarriers. Literally a mobile, nuclear-powered, floating city/airport. Capable of operating 24 hours a day in all weather, in every part of the world, projecting air power into any country.

    Carriers aren't as sexy as battleships, in part due to the nostalgia of the BBs bristling with main guns, secondary guns, and AA turrets, surrounded by her many escorts, but the Age of the Aircraft Carrier started with the nadir of the battleship.

    The BX on the Enterprise was the go to place while at sea
    Mindboggling huge compared to the rather questionable places I had to deal with while on board the LHA-1 USS Tarawa aka people were the last thing we thought of while building the vessel

    I would have thought they'd prefer the Holodeck

    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

  • chrishallett83chrishallett83 Hi! Registered User regular
    DaMoonRulz wrote: »
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Hell, think about modern Nimitz-class supercarriers. Literally a mobile, nuclear-powered, floating city/airport. Capable of operating 24 hours a day in all weather, in every part of the world, projecting air power into any country.

    Carriers aren't as sexy as battleships, in part due to the nostalgia of the BBs bristling with main guns, secondary guns, and AA turrets, surrounded by her many escorts, but the Age of the Aircraft Carrier started with the nadir of the battleship.

    The BX on the Enterprise was the go to place while at sea
    Mindboggling huge compared to the rather questionable places I had to deal with while on board the LHA-1 USS Tarawa aka people were the last thing we thought of while building the vessel

    I would have thought they'd prefer the Holodeck

    That's on the space shuttle Enterprise, silly! Holodecks are not standard fitment to naval ships.

  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    19904925_10212110475210016_877199487209228783_n.jpg?oh=da06b077303b0c8114ab8b0fbb667c4f&oe=59C4B278

    "Democracy is based on the assumption that a million men are smarter than one man. How's that again? I missed something" Lazarus Long

    DedwrekkaStraightziDarth WaiterXaquintynicchrishallett83SkeithTofystedeth
  • IronKnuckle's GhostIronKnuckle's Ghost Registered User regular
    I'm reading a really good book about relics right now! Pancratius is featured in the photographs.

    What's the name of the book

    Holy Bones, Holy Dust by Charles Freeman. Very much a historical account of medieval European history, through the lens of Christianity and how relics were viewed as intercessors, sources of cures and miracles, and how pilgrimage was effectively the early tourism industry. It's particularly interesting to me once we get to the Renaissance period and early scientific beliefs start stripping away the supernatural elements of the remains of supposed Biblical characters, and how this directly feeds the later Protestant movement.

    Weirdly there were seemingly very few people who did not accept all relics as genuine, even when particularly important Biblical people such as John the Baptist apparently had many, many heads and arms distributed throughout Europe, the apparently miraculous abilities of bones and clothes, the visions granted to the bishops of impoverished dioceses that led to the discovery of the burial sites of people who almost certainly never traveled to Europe, and the sheer amount of the blood of Christ and the milk of the Virgin available. (Interestingly, these last two types of relics were themselves the subjects of heated debate. One side very much argued against either being genuine, as both Christ and the Virgin directly ascended to Heaven and thus no biological traces of their bodies would remain on Earth.)

    Another book on a similar subject, though less focused on history and more focused on the spectacle of death and how medieval European people related to it, is The Empire of Death: A Cultural History of Ossuaries and Charnel Houses by Paul Koudounaris. I actually found this book first, after discovering "jeweled skeletons" on the internet some years back and trying to figure out just what the deal with that was. As an American born in the 20th century, the only approach to death I've ever known is the Victorian one where we try to interact as little as possible with the deceased. I was shocked to learn that even 200 years ago this was very much not the case. You'd clean the bones of your ancestors at least yearly, and had a much more involved relationship with those who came before. Death was seen as much less ghastly and more just a simple thing that happens to us all.

    DisruptedCapitalistPlatyVegemyteLost Salient
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