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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Love to RP getting owned and surrendering

    I was gonna make a joke about not kinkshaming and how some people actually pay good money to be dominated and humiliated.

    And then I was like, "well no I probably shouldn't toss that into the History thread, no need to sexualize it."

    And then I finished reading the page

    Shall I regale thee with tales of Empress Theodora and her stage play of Leta and the Swan when she was younger?

    Let's just say that grain and the "calyx of her passion flower" were involved.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    RMS Oceanic
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited April 27
    I used to do Norman reenactment so 1066 to about 1200.

    Pretty much everyone was a leftist. All the Vikings were socialists, though I guess this is a result of Universities being the main recruitment ground for groups in the UK.

    Still have my sword and mail shirt lying around somewhere. Trudging up and down the hill at Battle abbey five or six times during a reenactment of the battle of Hastings is hard work.

    Got my first scar from there too, though it's an extremely rubbish story. Got hit in the face with a spear by my own side...

    SharpyVII on
    ElvenshaeBlackDragon480Inquisitorfurlion
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    I used to do Norman reenactment so 1066 to about 1200.

    Pretty much everyone was a leftist. All the Vikings were socialists, though I guess this is a result of Universities being the main recruitment ground for groups in the UK.

    Still have my sword and mail shirt lying around somewhere. Trudging up and down the hill at Battle abbey five or six times during a reenactment of the battle of Hastings is hard work.

    Got my first scar from there too, though it's an extremely rubbish story. Got hit in the face with a spear by my own side...

    Sounds like a historically accurate way to get a scar in the military

    BlackDragon480Kayne Red RobeButtersvalhalla130JayKaosTynnancB557tynicHacksawMidniteElvenshaeautono-wally, erotibot300VegemyteSkeith
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    I used to do Norman reenactment so 1066 to about 1200.

    Pretty much everyone was a leftist. All the Vikings were socialists, though I guess this is a result of Universities being the main recruitment ground for groups in the UK.

    Still have my sword and mail shirt lying around somewhere. Trudging up and down the hill at Battle abbey five or six times during a reenactment of the battle of Hastings is hard work.

    Got my first scar from there too, though it's an extremely rubbish story. Got hit in the face with a spear by my own side...

    I take it you were not an officer, 'cause then you'd have been hit in the back.

    (Did vikings, normans, or anglo-saxons even have officers?)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    edited April 27
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Hobnail wrote: »
    You might as a future I presume octopus person historian assume that I am doing a spiteful character assassination when I say the Duke of York is a child victimising serial sex pest who hides in a big spooky evil compound but that's just a true thing, octopoid

    theres already precedent for this, but also possible slander and coercion with Joan d'Arc's primary companion and almost national hero Gilles de Rais, whom may or may not have kidnapped, assaulted and then murdered up to 600 children
    major content warning about the description of his confessed crimes


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais

    See, I was interested in the lurid murder story, but wondered if we could trust a church-led investigation at that time... and then got to this part:
    Question of guilt

    Although Gilles de Rais was convicted of murdering many children by his confessions and the detailed eyewitness accounts of his own confederates and victims' parents,[47] doubts have persisted about the verdict. Counterarguments are based on the theory that Rais was himself a victim of an ecclesiastic plot or act of revenge by the Catholic Church or French State. Doubts about Rais' guilt have long persisted because the Duke of Brittany, who was given the authority to prosecute, received all the titles to Rais' former lands after his conviction. The Duke then divided the land among his own nobles.

    valhalla130 on
    Kayne Red Robeautono-wally, erotibot300BlackDragon480
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Well if the dude wasnt guilty then God wouldnt have allowed him to be convicted so obviously he was guilty unless you have doubts regarding the omnipotence and justice of the aforementioned in which case you should probably be executed and I should get all your stuff

    Hacksaw
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 27
    I've never been involved in an actual reenactment, but I have been in an all-night wargame at the local Paintball Woods, for my friend's birthday.

    a quarter of us were the resistance, the rest were an occupying force who had a base but had to send people out on 'patrols'

    lots of climbing trees and hiding in bushes and ambushes.

    I got taken out when we assaulted the base because I hopped on top of one of the wooden cover boxes and yelled WOLVERINES!

    Depressperado on
    furlionDouglasDangerMvrckElvenshaeMonwyn
  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    do people in reenactments go ham on their deaths?

    rolling in the dirt, crying for their mother, I don't wanna go

  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    One guy rolling around on the ground just shrieking himself hoarse, nobody else is really hollering so you can hear him like a mile away, he's not exactly harshing the vibe but he's definitely strongly modifying it

    DepressperadoHacksawKayne Red Robe
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    do people in reenactments go ham on their deaths?

    rolling in the dirt, crying for their mother, I don't wanna go

    In SCA I preferred to keep my performances more realistic, if I ended up mortally wounded I'd crumple to the ground and shit myself.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    Captain InertiaKayne Red RobeElvenshaeDepressperadoMechMantissarukunfurlionMagell
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    It's a mortal wound but it's going to take like two weeks to kill you, plenty of screaming time buddy

  • asofyeunasofyeun Registered User regular
    you know, I was going to say that maybe it's not a mortal wound until someone tries to treat it, but I really don't know enough about pre-modern medicine to make that claim.

    While I'm sure pre-modern medicine wasn't good, I feel like the deadliness of pre-modern medicine is overstated in popular conceptions. Anyone have any good videos on the subject?

  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    edited April 27
    Oh I dunno I think wound sepsis will kill the fuck out of you even if you don't rub arsenic and dog poop into it or whatever

    Like I am not a scientist but I am under the impression that before penicillin you get the wrong splinter and that's your ass right there, dead as fuck

    Hobnail on
    sarukun
  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited April 27
    asofyeun wrote: »
    you know, I was going to say that maybe it's not a mortal wound until someone tries to treat it, but I really don't know enough about pre-modern medicine to make that claim.

    While I'm sure pre-modern medicine wasn't good, I feel like the deadliness of pre-modern medicine is overstated in popular conceptions. Anyone have any good videos on the subject?

    It depends. Early modern/late medieval western European medicine was notably horrendous to the point that people kind of caught on to how lethal it was. Late to mid antiquities european medicine was fine. Varied in quality mind you but generally helpful more often than not. Lots of practices had little to no effect but hey better than killing you accidentally. Persian and Arabic medicine was noticeably quite good through the period, and most of the rest of the world had at least a better than 1:1 ratio for positive/negative effects of medical treatments. Like often drug treatments had little effect but caused little long-term harm, and sometimes they were actually decently effective at treating some kind of malady.

    Surgeries were always dicey but if you lived at anytime between like 900-1500 CE you'd want an Islamic surgeon, or failing that, a Chinese surgeon. They did not have the capability or knowledge to properly sterlize but they were kind proficient at performing procedures fast and (relatively) delicately. You did not want to get a hole drilled in you in Europe, you'd probably die or at least lose a limb. In Baghdad, later Constantinople (yes it was still Constantinople until post WW1), or Kaifeng? You had a not great but not abysmal chance of surviving major surgery. I know some places in pre-columbian mesoamerica seemed to have had some pretty great surgeons based on having lots of intricate medical tools, but I don't think there are almost any records about how effective their medicinal practices actually were, for obvious reasons. But like they had sutures, needles, etc. Almost all made of bone mind you, which is not great for infection, but that wasn't uncommon in Eurasia/Africa either.

    Gundi on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    asofyeun wrote: »
    you know, I was going to say that maybe it's not a mortal wound until someone tries to treat it, but I really don't know enough about pre-modern medicine to make that claim.

    While I'm sure pre-modern medicine wasn't good, I feel like the deadliness of pre-modern medicine is overstated in popular conceptions. Anyone have any good videos on the subject?

    It depends. Early modern/late medieval western European medicine was notably horrendous to the point that people kind of caught on to how lethal it was. Late to mid antiquities european medicine was fine. Varied in quality mind you but generally helpful more often than not. Lots of practices had little to no effect but hey better than killing you accidentally. Persian and Arabic medicine was noticeably quite good through the period, and most of the rest of the world had at least a better than 1:1 ratio for positive/negative effects of medical treatments. Like often drug treatments had little effect but caused little long-term harm, and sometimes they were actually decently effective at treating some kind of malady.

    Surgeries were always dicey but if you lived at anytime between like 900-1500 CE you'd want an Islamic surgeon, or failing that, a Chinese surgeon. They did not have the capability or knowledge to properly sterlize but they were kind proficient at performing procedures fast and (relatively) delicately. You did not want to get a hole drilled in you in Europe, you'd probably die or at least lose a limb. In Baghdad, later Constantinople (yes it was still Constantinople until post WW1), or Kaifeng? You had a not great but not abysmal chance of surviving major surgery. I know some places in pre-columbian mesoamerica seemed to have had some pretty great surgeons based on having lots of intricate medical tools, but I don't think there are almost any records about how effective their medicinal practices actually were, for obvious reasons. But like they had sutures, needles, etc. Almost all made of bone mind you, which is not great for infection, but that wasn't uncommon in Eurasia/Africa either.

    the inca practiced trepanation and there are multiple skulls with healed bone, so people at least survived long enough

    very little evidence of other surgeries though

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    It's a mortal wound but it's going to take like two weeks to kill you, plenty of screaming time buddy

    Also plenty of shitting time

    BlackDragon480sarukun
  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Could you imagine having to shit in a pot im the middle of the night, and then slide it back under the bad and pretend the room doesn't reak?

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Could you imagine having to shit in a pot im the middle of the night, and then slide it back under the bad and pretend the room doesn't reak?

    "Gardyloo!"

    Shadowhope
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    I have a theory that everything and everywhere and mostly everyone smelled just fucking awful, like a barn that needs cleaned out, for most of civilization, especially anywhere with more than like five people living there

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    GvzbgulShadowhopeKayne Red Robefurlion
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Oh everything reeks when that pot is full you just throw it out the window and so does everybody else, there's two open air tanneries and a slaughterhouse and a combination tannery/slaughterhouse on your street, you work in a whale oil cannery and your wool suit was processed with piss and smells like it, if you can smell all this it means you're still alive

    BlackDragon480Captain InertiatynicTheStigHacksawsarukunfurlionSkeithMunkus BeaverNeveron
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I mean, there was a period of time where most of western Europe didn't bathe.

    Everyone that encountered them mentioned it, so they probably were exceptionally filthy.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, there was a period of time where most of western Europe didn't bathe.

    Everyone that encountered them mentioned it, so they probably were exceptionally filthy.

    this only really happened between the second plague outbreaks and the early colonial era

    it's much shorter than most people think

    ShadowhopeBlackDragon480DouglasDangerElvenshaesarukun
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I remember reading an edition of that BBC History magazine and the cover was like "Were the middle ages really as fucking filthy as you think" and the article was like "Actually, a lot of people bathed a couple times a week" and I was like oh yeah wow a non-majority of the population rinsed their balls and snatch twice a week you're rocking my conception of the horrendous stink and filth levels of the past

    Fencingsaxsarukun
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    I remember reading an edition of that BBC History magazine and the cover was like "Were the middle ages really as fucking filthy as you think" and the article was like "Actually, a lot of people bathed a couple times a week" and I was like oh yeah wow a non-majority of the population rinsed their balls and snatch twice a week you're rocking my conception of the horrendous stink and filth levels of the past

    yeah, people bathed at least weekly (public baths were widely available particularly in roman conquered areas) and people would wash their face and hands and probably feet daily

    there were etiqutte manuals for nobles that taught them what herbs to chew to freshen their breath and keep their teeth clean

    it wasn't until the second plague when the church partially noticed that people in public were getting sick and attributed it to bathing in public and the whole miasma theory

    BlackDragon480DouglasDangerGvzbgulsarukunMunkus Beaver
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    A weekly bath my odour is human-visible after like three days, three idle days after one day of work there are cartoon stink lines

  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Most of history was shit. The people were shit, the odds of survival were shit, filled with shity events. All on top of tons of actual, physical shit.

    Kayne Red Robe
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    All those untold billions of total suckers trudging through their miserable lives until something horrible happens and they're dead, no penicillin no internet no Minions brand fleshlights, just a vale of tears and a forgotten grave

    Hacksawfurlion
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Could you imagine having to shit in a pot im the middle of the night, and then slide it back under the bad and pretend the room doesn't reak?

    Why would I need to imagine this?

    Xaquin
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Wait do you all just shit on the floor, not in your chamber pots?

  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, there was a period of time where most of western Europe didn't bathe.

    Everyone that encountered them mentioned it, so they probably were exceptionally filthy.

    this only really happened between the second plague outbreaks and the early colonial era

    it's much shorter than most people think

    With that said, Versailles had no toilets. Grand parties were held there, and people would sneak off to the bushes or to find an empty room to take a discrete shit in.

    Just imagine: you’re wearing your best red silk stockings. Your finest high heels. Your face has been made up by experts. Your wig is the finest money can buy. You’re the very pinnacle of masculinity, in the most beautiful palace in Europe, and you’re desperate to find an empty room with a fireplace so you can not embarrass yourself in front of the whole court.

    Remember, safety is everyone's concern. We have gone five days without a workplace death.
    Fencingsax
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular

    BlackDragon480
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    There were some toilet type devices at Versailles, though there weren't nearly enough

    http://thisisversaillesmadame.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-lack-of-toilets.html?m=1

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »

    "Your Majesty, you look like the piss boy?!"

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    Xaquinsarukun
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Please do not shit in the fireplaces.

    Respectfully,
    Reginald the Fireplace Butler

    ElvenshaeFencingsaxsarukunfurlionHacksawKruite
  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Gundi wrote: »
    asofyeun wrote: »
    you know, I was going to say that maybe it's not a mortal wound until someone tries to treat it, but I really don't know enough about pre-modern medicine to make that claim.

    While I'm sure pre-modern medicine wasn't good, I feel like the deadliness of pre-modern medicine is overstated in popular conceptions. Anyone have any good videos on the subject?

    It depends. Early modern/late medieval western European medicine was notably horrendous to the point that people kind of caught on to how lethal it was. Late to mid antiquities european medicine was fine. Varied in quality mind you but generally helpful more often than not. Lots of practices had little to no effect but hey better than killing you accidentally. Persian and Arabic medicine was noticeably quite good through the period, and most of the rest of the world had at least a better than 1:1 ratio for positive/negative effects of medical treatments. Like often drug treatments had little effect but caused little long-term harm, and sometimes they were actually decently effective at treating some kind of malady.

    Surgeries were always dicey but if you lived at anytime between like 900-1500 CE you'd want an Islamic surgeon, or failing that, a Chinese surgeon. They did not have the capability or knowledge to properly sterlize but they were kind proficient at performing procedures fast and (relatively) delicately. You did not want to get a hole drilled in you in Europe, you'd probably die or at least lose a limb. In Baghdad, later Constantinople (yes it was still Constantinople until post WW1), or Kaifeng? You had a not great but not abysmal chance of surviving major surgery. I know some places in pre-columbian mesoamerica seemed to have had some pretty great surgeons based on having lots of intricate medical tools, but I don't think there are almost any records about how effective their medicinal practices actually were, for obvious reasons. But like they had sutures, needles, etc. Almost all made of bone mind you, which is not great for infection, but that wasn't uncommon in Eurasia/Africa either.

    the inca practiced trepanation and there are multiple skulls with healed bone, so people at least survived long enough

    very little evidence of other surgeries though

    So it's been observed that various discoveries have recurred throughout history, so don't take this as evidence of strict timeline, but just taking one example hand-washing as a means of preventing disease transmission by doctors operating on patients was controversial as late as the mid-1800s. Work backward in terms of people's comprehension of sanitary practices from there.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Reggie....

    Xaquin
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Kupi wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Gundi wrote: »
    asofyeun wrote: »
    you know, I was going to say that maybe it's not a mortal wound until someone tries to treat it, but I really don't know enough about pre-modern medicine to make that claim.

    While I'm sure pre-modern medicine wasn't good, I feel like the deadliness of pre-modern medicine is overstated in popular conceptions. Anyone have any good videos on the subject?

    It depends. Early modern/late medieval western European medicine was notably horrendous to the point that people kind of caught on to how lethal it was. Late to mid antiquities european medicine was fine. Varied in quality mind you but generally helpful more often than not. Lots of practices had little to no effect but hey better than killing you accidentally. Persian and Arabic medicine was noticeably quite good through the period, and most of the rest of the world had at least a better than 1:1 ratio for positive/negative effects of medical treatments. Like often drug treatments had little effect but caused little long-term harm, and sometimes they were actually decently effective at treating some kind of malady.

    Surgeries were always dicey but if you lived at anytime between like 900-1500 CE you'd want an Islamic surgeon, or failing that, a Chinese surgeon. They did not have the capability or knowledge to properly sterlize but they were kind proficient at performing procedures fast and (relatively) delicately. You did not want to get a hole drilled in you in Europe, you'd probably die or at least lose a limb. In Baghdad, later Constantinople (yes it was still Constantinople until post WW1), or Kaifeng? You had a not great but not abysmal chance of surviving major surgery. I know some places in pre-columbian mesoamerica seemed to have had some pretty great surgeons based on having lots of intricate medical tools, but I don't think there are almost any records about how effective their medicinal practices actually were, for obvious reasons. But like they had sutures, needles, etc. Almost all made of bone mind you, which is not great for infection, but that wasn't uncommon in Eurasia/Africa either.

    the inca practiced trepanation and there are multiple skulls with healed bone, so people at least survived long enough

    very little evidence of other surgeries though

    So it's been observed that various discoveries have recurred throughout history, so don't take this as evidence of strict timeline, but just taking one example hand-washing as a means of preventing disease transmission by doctors operating on patients was controversial as late as the mid-1800s. Work backward in terms of people's comprehension of sanitary practices from there.

    knowledge is generally iterative, and very rarely accidental

    generally speaking you don't get sanitation practices until you understand germ theory

    GvzbgulcB557FencingsaxsarukunShadowhopeHacksaw
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited April 27
    honovere wrote: »
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    I used to do Norman reenactment so 1066 to about 1200.

    Pretty much everyone was a leftist. All the Vikings were socialists, though I guess this is a result of Universities being the main recruitment ground for groups in the UK.

    Still have my sword and mail shirt lying around somewhere. Trudging up and down the hill at Battle abbey five or six times during a reenactment of the battle of Hastings is hard work.

    Got my first scar from there too, though it's an extremely rubbish story. Got hit in the face with a spear by my own side...

    Sounds like a historically accurate way to get a scar in the military

    I was stood next to a much shorter person so their reach was shorter with their spear. So they were stood slightly Infront of me to my right and as they pulled their spear back the butt of the spear hit me just above my eye...

    Whilst I was getting first aid some French spectators were very angry that a Norman soldier was injured.

    Not surprising really when the fights look like this:
    a5sz5fc4w63c.jpg

    SharpyVII on
    cB557BlackDragon480FencingsaxPeas
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    hard cheese Reggie, it's here or there and it's not gonne be here

    Captain Inertia
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Hobnail wrote: »
    Please do not shit in the fireplaces.

    Respectfully,
    Reginald the Fireplace Butler

    Why is there wine in the fireplace?

    Captain InertiaXaquinElvenshae
This discussion has been closed.