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Dark Souls 3 has some deep lore

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Posts

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    No, you're never going to get a souls games where you can get the benefits of humanity/ember mode and summon help without the risk of invasions. It's a core part of the game. You can hope for it, but you won't get it.

    DS3 has made the game as "PvE only please" player friendly as possible. You get a 30% health boost that invaders don't get. You get twice the estus charges the invader gets. You can summon 2 phantoms at the bonfire to fight the invader for you, or just wear way of blue and get blues to help you. You will always have a numbers advantage versus the invaders if you want it.

    Asking for co-op and "friendly" online features with no risk of invasion in a Soulsborne game is the same as asking for an easy mode you can toggle on. There is an easy mode: summoning help. And there is a way to not be invaded. Don't be embered. But if you want co-op, you risk invasions. If you lose a 3v1 to an invader then you can take that as an opportunity to reevaluate what you're doing because it's nearly impossible.

    It's not even like DS1 where you have to go human at the bonfire. You can play unembered until the boss fog and then summon help if you need it to fight a boss.

    General_ArmchairKonphujunSirialis
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    It's not like there's a lack of people that enjoy the pvp, an option wouldn't do away with it or hinder you. You'd just be invading people that enjoyed getting invaded.

    All you're doing is defending a desire to be an asshole.

    Short Answer:
    It's a mechanic that's been in place since the beginning of the franchise. You either like it, you don't, or you don't care, but it obviously hasn't gone away, despite some people bitching about it in every single game, so instead, just deal with it.

    Long Answer:
    Much of Dark Souls can be seen as a metaphor for life itself. You're born into this mysterious, uncaring world. It's existed for thousands of years before you, and will exist for thousands of years after. It doesn't care to tell you it's stories, but if you look and listen, you can learn them. You will fail. You will fail over and over and over again, and all you can do is pick yourself back up and try again. Smash into those walls until you break through. Amidst the struggle and the strife, you will meet others. Some are kind souls who may aid you, or simply share a warm fire. Others are out for themselves, and will take what they want from you by force. All you can do is do, for as long as you have the will, or hollow and stagnate.

    manwiththemachinegun
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    It's not like there's a lack of people that enjoy the pvp, an option wouldn't do away with it or hinder you. You'd just be invading people that enjoyed getting invaded.

    All you're doing is defending a desire to be an asshole.

    I don't think you'll win many supporters phrasing it like that.

    Asshole was actually an autocorrect from harass for some odd reason.

    But it's true.

    If you think there should not be a way to prevent unwanted invasions outside of having to go out of your way to kill yourself to stay unembered.

    The only reason to want to invade those that don't wish it, is to be an ass and kill them.

    Just like the bastard that killed me while I was fighting someone else, whom you defended.

    It's also an argument we've gone over about ten times, and you've made your position on it pretty clear. Others don't share it.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii Registered User regular
    You can't invade someone who doesn't want to be invaded. Because the person who doesn't want to be invaded will not be embered, or they will play offline.

    Also, a fun thing to do if you don't want to risk being invaded "mid-level" when you're exploring or whatever is this: As soon as you beat a boss and are embered, move into the beginning of the next area and trigger the bonfire. Then, put on way of blue and pop a dried finger. Use a white branch and hide or whatever until reds and blues are having a jolly battle and then jump in there and kill some reds. When you eventually die, you're no longer embered and can explore at will, having helped some blues get their covenant items, having gotten some free souls from killing reds, etc.

    Or just jump off a cliff if you're allergic to fun.

    General_Armchair
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    It's not like there's a lack of people that enjoy the pvp, an option wouldn't do away with it or hinder you. You'd just be invading people that enjoyed getting invaded.

    All you're doing is defending a desire to be an asshole.

    I don't think you'll win many supporters phrasing it like that.

    Asshole was actually an autocorrect from harass for some odd reason.

    But it's true.

    If you think there should not be a way to prevent unwanted invasions outside of having to go out of your way to kill yourself to stay unembered.

    The only reason to want to invade those that don't wish it, is to be an ass and kill them.

    Just like the bastard that killed me while I was fighting someone else, whom you defended.

    It's also an argument we've gone over about ten times, and you've made your position on it pretty clear. Others don't share it.

    You actually don't know my position. You said you didn't understand the invader hate so I told you why people wouldn't like it.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    It's not like there's a lack of people that enjoy the pvp, an option wouldn't do away with it or hinder you. You'd just be invading people that enjoyed getting invaded.

    All you're doing is defending a desire to harass.

    I am defending people playing the game as designed. The game is explicitly designed to promote the behavior you are calling "harassment" which is just a weasel word in this context.

    You don't want people doing these things to you, and I can empathize with you, but you lose me when you try to denigrate the people playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Do you know who ISN'T playing the game the way it was meant to be played? The people trying to crowdsource support in marginalizing the people who actually want to play the game as-is, trying to claim that behaviors such as healing, using estus, fleeing, hiding, using mobs to your advantage is dishonorable. I'm sorry, but fuck that. I find that kind of bitching and moaning especially loathsome.

    Don't like the way the game is designed? OK. You're welcome to your opinion. But calling the people assholes or harassers or any other negative word for playing the game the way the game's design actively encourages you to play it? Not OK.

    Sorry, but I've had this damn debate on GameFAQs for the past week and I find it detestable.

    Joshmvii
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Anyway, now that I maxed out my Covenants, I think I'm done with Invasions. Though I plan to play NG+ constantly embered. I don't mind being invaded. Just no interest in initiating anymore. You don't really get anything out of them once you've gotten all your covenant drops, I guess. I mean, they can be fun...but not really. Although I had a fun fight near Havel - I'll write it up tomorrow.

    Can someone remind me which NPC invader you meet at the Catacombs in that little gated off alley? He killed me and didn't reappear - teaches you the Thank You gesture.

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    I am having a blast in the swamp doing Wolves of Farron invasions. Got 11 Swordgrass, some Sunlight Medallions (I don't know why), and Vertebrae Shackles (some hosts get desperate and when there's no golden summon signs around well...) to nab the Great Wolf Sword, which is apparently one of the DEX based Curved Greatswords! Looks neat, but can't wield it properly.

    So far rapiers are the biggest pain for me to deal with, since they can unload a full salvo into my shield and when done roll away to replenish stamina. I am getting a ton of mileage out of random kicks though. And so far my favorite of the invasions was arriving in the halfway castle, seeing the host's health bar beneath me, and falling into a hole to land behind him for a free backstab.

    camo_sig2.png
    PSN: AuthorFrost
    mageofstorm.png
  • TorgaironTorgairon Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Drez wrote: »
    Anyway, now that I maxed out my Covenants, I think I'm done with Invasions. Though I plan to play NG+ constantly embered. I don't mind being invaded. Just no interest in initiating anymore. You don't really get anything out of them once you've gotten all your covenant drops, I guess. I mean, they can be fun...but not really. Although I had a fun fight near Havel - I'll write it up tomorrow.

    Can someone remind me which NPC invader you meet at the Catacombs in that little gated off alley? He killed me and didn't reappear - teaches you the Thank You gesture.

    knight slayer tsorig, same guy that you find at the bottom of smouldering lake.

    Torgairon on
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    Hmm. Skill-shield + Grass Crest. Skill-shield + Parrying Dagger. Dagger can be Blessed or Simple, if Staminas isn't the bar you want, for some reason.
    Can always switch to a bigger weapon for riposte if you want. Switching even auto-breaks twohanding. Dagger-damage is pretty low with any infusion, though it's at least a 110-critical.

    Wolf Knight Shield even resist bleed and toxic.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Torgairon wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    Anyway, now that I maxed out my Covenants, I think I'm done with Invasions. Though I plan to play NG+ constantly embered. I don't mind being invaded. Just no interest in initiating anymore. You don't really get anything out of them once you've gotten all your covenant drops, I guess. I mean, they can be fun...but not really. Although I had a fun fight near Havel - I'll write it up tomorrow.

    Can someone remind me which NPC invader you meet at the Catacombs in that little gated off alley? He killed me and didn't reappear - teaches you the Thank You gesture.

    knight slayer tsorig, same guy that you find at the bottom of smouldering lake.

    Ah! Thanks :)

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I think PvP is charming, but I get annoyed when I can't exit the game or leave the area because some nerd is running around looking for me at the wrong end of the woods. When that nerd is an NPC, I question my life.

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    I was a bit disappointed that when I got invaded by Tsorig I had just cut the bridge and saw him across the chasm with no way for me to return and kill him.

    And then he just ran off the cliff and died.

    Fuck Firearm Fetishism
    86 45
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    i just ran some experiments on full havels versus sorcerer robe

    holy shit

    holy

    fucking

    shit

    spoiler: fucking lol

    obF2Wuw.png
    Dyvim Tvar
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    1. parrying is radical
    2. my fashion souls game is on point

    late game optional boss

    this is actually an impediment to build variety, because i'm never gonna use anything but a caestus in my left hand ever again

    surrealitycheck
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    1. parrying is radical
    2. my fashion souls game is on point

    late game optional boss

    this is actually an impediment to build variety, because i'm never gonna use anything but a caestus in my left hand ever again

    caestus points ++

    obF2Wuw.png
  • FiggyFiggy Registered User regular
    There's no longer a disadvantage to going unembered, just an advantage if you do.

    If you use an ember you get an HP boost, because you're gonna need it against these invaders on their way.

    Think of embers as a PVP tool, team vs team. If you want to use an ember to try and summon buds and get pissed when you're invaded, that's your own fault. If you want to use an ember for the HP boost and get pissed when you get invaded, that's also your fault.

    The ember is there to enable multiplayer. You don't get to have the boost without the reason you're getting it--invasion risk.

    You don't get to start watching Game of Thrones in season 3 and complain about all the violence. Welcome to the show!

    XBL : Figment3 · SteamID : Figment · Website : www.nathanswyers.com
    Joshmvii
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Always play offline. No chance of PVP invasion and you can ember all you want.

    Fuck Firearm Fetishism
    86 45
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    To be fair, that only applies to manual embering, you get a free ember on boss kills.

    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
  • Blackbird SR-71CBlackbird SR-71C Registered User regular
    By the way, even after finishing the game I am wondering
    Does anyone have a (personal) explanation for the dark snake/dragon things popping out of dudes and the feet of other dragons?

    With this being introduced as early as the first boss and popping up again and again throughout the entire game, I sure was surprised by the lack of information on them, even implied or speculative.

    steam_sig.png
    Steam ID: 76561198021298113
    Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird

  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    By the way, even after finishing the game I am wondering
    Does anyone have a (personal) explanation for the dark snake/dragon things popping out of dudes and the feet of other dragons?

    With this being introduced as early as the first boss and popping up again and again throughout the entire game, I sure was surprised by the lack of information on them, even implied or speculative.

    My guess
    it's some kind of infection or curse, but I'm not clear what caused it. I'm not really up on the lore, but IIRC they show up on Iudex Gundyr, one of the hollows on the high wall, and at least one dragon at Lothric Castle. And there's a bunch in the Consumed King's Garden, which is in Lothric Castle as well. So now that I think about it maybe the connection is something to do with Lothric Castle? Also it seems like the curved sword you pull out of Gundyr at the start was holding him in some sort of stasis, possibly to prevent the infection from spreading?

    Fuck Firearm Fetishism
    86 45
  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    By the way, even after finishing the game I am wondering
    Does anyone have a (personal) explanation for the dark snake/dragon things popping out of dudes and the feet of other dragons?

    With this being introduced as early as the first boss and popping up again and again throughout the entire game, I sure was surprised by the lack of information on them, even implied or speculative.

    My guess
    it's some kind of infection or curse, but I'm not clear what caused it. I'm not really up on the lore, but IIRC they show up on Iudex Gundyr, one of the hollows on the high wall, and at least one dragon at Lothric Castle. And there's a bunch in the Consumed King's Garden, which is in Lothric Castle as well. So now that I think about it maybe the connection is something to do with Lothric Castle? Also it seems like the curved sword you pull out of Gundyr at the start was holding him in some sort of stasis, possibly to prevent the infection from spreading?

    I just assumed abyss related.

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
    sig.gif
    Houn
  • AistanAistan Registered User regular
    Invasions are part of the game mechanics and aren't going anywhere, because they have settled on them as a large portion of how they want to do multiplayer in their games.

    They are also a dick move because someone who invades is deliberately stopping someone else's forward progress so that they can gain something. That the invadee can mitigate this by purposefully not engaging with all of the game systems doesn't change that.

    They aren't trying to get something for free, they are trying to engage with the part of the game they enjoy (summoning people to play with) and are forced to engage with the part of the game they hate (fighting other players). Whereas for the invader there's no downside, because they enjoy it all.

    I have always thought it was a bad system, because it doesn't teach you that the world is dangerous and you have to watch your step. The PvE portion of the game already does this. All invasions do is teach you that some person on the other side of the country/world is acting like a jerk.

    steam_sig.png
  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    So yeah, I've finally gotten into PVP. Specifically, the fight clubs. Too bad I lose too often to actually gather any reasonable amounts of covenant items, but it's still good fun.
    GdDFw1A.jpg?1

    firewaterword
  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I actually don't think I've seen any mention of the weird thing in the Iudex-fight. The rest of the game pretends nothing happened.

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    The black goo monsters are called the 'Pus of Man'. They are indeed abyss corruption leaking through.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Drez wrote: »
    Viskod wrote: »
    It's not like there's a lack of people that enjoy the pvp, an option wouldn't do away with it or hinder you. You'd just be invading people that enjoyed getting invaded.

    All you're doing is defending a desire to harass.

    I am defending people playing the game as designed. The game is explicitly designed to promote the behavior you are calling "harassment" which is just a weasel word in this context.

    You don't want people doing these things to you, and I can empathize with you, but you lose me when you try to denigrate the people playing the game the way it was meant to be played. Do you know who ISN'T playing the game the way it was meant to be played? The people trying to crowdsource support in marginalizing the people who actually want to play the game as-is, trying to claim that behaviors such as healing, using estus, fleeing, hiding, using mobs to your advantage is dishonorable. I'm sorry, but fuck that. I find that kind of bitching and moaning especially loathsome.

    Don't like the way the game is designed? OK. You're welcome to your opinion. But calling the people assholes or harassers or any other negative word for playing the game the way the game's design actively encourages you to play it? Not OK.

    Sorry, but I've had this damn debate on GameFAQs for the past week and I find it detestable.

    Man, you probably should ease up on the calling people detestable in the same post where you complain about people calling another side harrassers. Doesn't quite gel.

    Anyway, my main problem with those tactics is less that they're dishonorable and more that they're freaking boring and make things far longer than they need to be. It's part of why I really don't like how fast the Estus is this time around. Because it makes it near-unpunishable, and so combats last forever. I'd much rather have a dude gank me by surprise than have a protracted fight that doesn't end until everyone is out of both Estus and fucks to give. You want to sneak on me and use a surprise attack to gib the shit out of me? Good on you! You want to spend all your time fleeing and throwing firebombs from hard to reach places? Man, I only have so many hours in the day to play, can you please just kill me already and we can be done with this?

    It's why every time I've been invaded I've generally made a point of waving to the invader, clearing the field, and sitting in a visible, open spot for a duel, and don't use Estus until the opponent does. I don't mind a spot of PvP! But if possible, I'd love it if it was something fast, and I like to give the opponent the chance of the same.

    In any case, I've been thinking of restarting, this time trying a caster instead of my usual quality. So, general consensus is that Faith is balls, right? wondering whether to go straight sorcerer with full int, or trying Pyromancer.

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Welcome to Dark Swords:



    (I'm a little obsessed.)

    HounRhan9
  • Kevin CristKevin Crist But it's like we weren't made for this world Though I wouldn't really want to meet someone who was.Registered User regular
    So bad they don't call the Dark Infused Dark Sword "Dark Dark Sword"

    acpRlGW.jpg
    Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: SkinnerSweet
    PLAMegaMekKarozRhan9
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    @Dracsin, I wrote up a huge post but I don't really want to keep this going so I'll distill it to this: It does gel. I'm very tired of the "invaders that do X are assholes" bullies. They've existed since Demon's Souls, and with this iteration they seem to be relentless. Not necessarily here on PA, but take a gander at Reddit or GameFAQs and you'll see what I'm talking about, just people shitting on invaders for playing the game as designed. It's one thing to dislike the game's design and criticize that. It's another thing to harass invaders and call them assholes lest they play by some ethereal set of rules that a minority of players are trying to enforce.

    There's no hypocrisy in my opinion, because I believe the people playing the game as intended are not doing anything wrong, and the people shitting on them are. So, yes, I call those people detestable, because in my opinion they are. It's not their language I have a problem with, it's their opinion and their communication of that opinion in the first place because it's just meant to chill valid invader behaviors via online bullying.

    Also, I have no problem with people criticizing the nature of PvP in this game. I only have a problem with people trying to shit on the players that engage in the PvP in the allowed/intended/encouraged fashion. As much as you may dislike the nature of PvP there is no excuse for shitting on people for playing the game that actually exists. This idea that invaders have some kind of moral responsibility not to "ruin" your experience is very annoying.

    (Not directed at you, the "yous" here are all general, and you don't seem to be one of the bullies I am referring to - I just wanted to make my position clear.)

    edit: The rewrite ended up being longish too. Meh.

    Drez on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    So bad they don't call the Dark Infused Dark Sword "Dark Dark Sword"

    Yeah, that made me sad.

  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    I guess that means each item-name is one unit, rather than a construction of a base-name, a prefix and a suffix. Unless they set aside a unique prefix just for this case.

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Shall I steam myself failing against the end boss? Sure, why not!



    Spoilers, obv.

    NEO|Phytemanwiththemachinegun
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    I just don't get why invasions in particular are a sticking point. There's plenty in dark souls that'll kill you. An invader isn't "impeding your progress" any more than anything else that's trying to kill you. I've died a lot less frequently to invaders than I have to literally any mob in archdragon peak.

    Joshmvii
  • AistanAistan Registered User regular
    "It's allowed by the game mechanics" isn't a moral justification. It's the same thing as purposefully going Rogue in The Division, or... (I was going to put another example here of PvE and PvP butting heads like this but I can't actually think of any). It's attacking another player and setting back their progress for the purpose of furthering your own.

    Some people are going to not enjoy that, and some of those people are going to think the person who did it is a jerk for doing so. Hiding behind "well it's in the game so you can't complain about it" doesn't change their opinions.

    steam_sig.png
    Blackbird SR-71CMegaMekKarozRhan9
  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    And how are we supposed to know who will or wont like being invaded?

    I for one, welcome invaders, I have such a huge advantage over them even in a 1on1 with this new system so for me its a breath of fresh air, I've only been invaded once on this character though. (probably due to my low level run)

    I'm not a jerk for invading anyone and the very notion is such utter drivel, most of the people I invade are eager to participate (because huge advantage, like having 30% more HP and its a 2vs1), some more than others unfortunately.

    No, on the other hand, you knew this was how the game worked when you bought it, this is more on yourself than on anyone else.

    Sirialis on
    Drez
  • HugglesHuggles Future War Cult 4 lyfRegistered User regular
    edited April 2016
    From don't care though, so it's a silly debate not worth getting worked up about.

    Black goop:
    Isn't it implied that Vendrick or Aldia tried to link the fire to the dergans? Maybe they succeeded but instead of linking the fire to an eternal fuel source they just spread the corruption of the Dark Soul. Hence why the Pus of Mans, dergan infections and Iudex Gundyr all resemble dergan heads to some degree?

    Huggles on
    Minecraft: Ginjinngear | Steam
    PSN: NAJBAR-AJO
  • AistanAistan Registered User regular
    At least they went away from the Dark Souls 2 way where you could be invaded even while hollow. That was total garbage.

    They've made invasions better in 3 because they are easier to avoid, though i'd have still preferred if invaders couldn't use estus like in 1.

    steam_sig.png
  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I stumbled on a Fight Club yesterday, I had only heard of these, it was a host fighting a Watchdog of Farron and his purple buddy holding the door, who gestured to me that they would prefer a 1on1 instead of a 2on2, alright I can wait my turn.

    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Sirialis/video/17100736

    My one rule for PvP (that only covers myself of course, since I cant tell others what to do.) is basically "Dont be a dick", no condescending bullshit or gestures... Unless you are a real proper shit, like the glitcher I met yesterday.

    Sirialis on
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Houn wrote: »
    Shall I steam myself failing against the end boss? Sure, why not!



    Spoilers, obv.

    Well, no one can accuse them of having a victory-lap final boss a third time.

    Damn.

    I was literally shaking at the end. Holy shit. I love and hate you Dark Souls.

    Just.

    Wow.

    NEO|Phytemanwiththemachinegun
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