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The Fire Emblem Thread! Echoes may be a remake but hey lets use spoilers anyway

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Posts

  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Well, on a whim I bulldozed though the remaining levels and finished Revelation using just myself and Xander paired off

    That, um, that sure was a plot thing!!! That sure was several plot things REVELATION END SPOILERS
    Played back to back, the last six chapters were a non stop melodrama train of random dead people showing up, saying a line or two for some sort of emotional punch(??), then kicking the bucket proper

    Why the heck did they think Sumeragi was a good person to stick in there? Why would I care about him? All I ever saw of him to that point was a blurry pincushion

    And bless, as much as I like Xander they gave him two incredibly ridiculous lines near the end ("Is that what common people think of royals" in response to "The king fucking murdered my family and then entire village for a minor slight, royalty is crazy" and then "Oh no must we lose dad too" to Garondorf getting eaten

    Buuuuuuuuuuuh

    The siblings in general didn't get any emotionally resonant moments, but I knew that would be the case going in.

    To conclude this on a positive note, I liked the mechanics of the stealth level, and the design for both forms of Anankos were both very rad

    Oh, and I WAS totally pleasantly surprised by something: Lilith doesn't have a ridiculous death scene in this! Mind. Blown!!

    I didn't save, so I'll go back and do it properly later. Wyborn has been waiting to chat with me about this for like two weeks now

    SilverWind on
    signature.png
    Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227 - 3DS: 0473-7774-3652
    JansonWyborn
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    Janson wrote: »
    So much time must've gone into those subtle changes.

    There's more than that.

    The Japanese version has six minor variants for the Avatar's dialog, one for each voice option.

    And Awakening had, in addition to that, a mute option that rewrote every single support Robin had to set him or her as a Link style heroic mime. Like Chrom going "What's that Robin? Little Ricken fell down the well?" for every cutscene.

    I can just imagine the conversation at 8-4 when deciding if they were localizing that feature. I imagine it involved the phrase "Fuuuuck that."

  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    SilverWind wrote: »
    Well, on a whim I bulldozed though the remaining levels and finished Revelation using just myself and Xander paired off

    That, um, that sure was a plot thing!!! That sure was several plot things REVELATION END SPOILERS
    Played back to back, the last six chapters were a non stop melodrama train of random dead people showing up, saying a line or two for some sort of emotional punch(??), then kicking the bucket proper

    Why the heck did they think Sumeragi was a good person to stick in there? Why would I care about him? All I ever saw of him to that point was a blurry pincushion

    And bless, as much as I like Xander they gave him two incredibly ridiculous lines near the end ("Is that what common people think of royals" in response to "The king fucking murdered my family and then entire village for a minor slight, royalty is crazy" and then "Oh no must we lose dad too" to Garondorf getting eaten

    Buuuuuuuuuuuh

    The siblings in general didn't get any emotionally resonant moments, but I knew that would be the case going in.

    To conclude this on a positive note, I liked the mechanics of the stealth level, and the design for both forms of Anankos were both very rad

    Oh, and I WAS totally pleasantly surprised by something: Lilith doesn't have a ridiculous death scene in this! Mind. Blown!!

    I didn't save, so I'll go back and do it properly later. Wyborn has been waiting to chat with me about this for like two weeks now

    Woman you were supposed to be in bed!!!

    Also we had similar reactions to all of this and I find that kinda gratifying!

    Gods

    Whyyyyyyyy

    Was it easy with just you and Xander? I figured it would be tough

    Wyborn on
    dN0T6ur.png
  • DidgeridooDidgeridoo Registered User regular
    BugBoy wrote: »
    Didgeridoo wrote: »
    Janson wrote: »
    I appreciate Xander but have come to the conclusion he's too honorable and distinguished for the Corrin I play.

    Also I've answered my own question from earlier and made my castle an easy seize and added it to the list!

    Also I would pair Keaton with Charlotte, I remember it being pretty decent?

    Who are your Conquest team one true loves?

    Lessee here...

    Silas X Camilla
    Odin X Elise
    Corrin X Xander (because I'm the worst)
    Beruka X Benny
    Effie X Leo (it should have been Benny!!)
    Arthur X Selena

    That's all, I think! Everyone else is benched.

    How's Arthur/Selena? I was going to try that one, but I paired her with Keaton instead

    It's pretty sweet, actually! It's Selena throwing herself headfirst into any and every challenge she can to prove she's the best (as per usual). Only this time the insurmountable challenge is Arthur's disastrously bad luck.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-0999-1072-9696
    Avatar pixel art from work by Hendry Roesly
    Naphtali
  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    More Revelations ending thoughts
    I think I would have preferred one MORE mindless actually dead person, that being Gunter, rather than what they tried to shoehorn in as his background story traitor twist. I agree with Wyborn--his characterization in Rev is completely incompatible with what it was in Birthright or Conquest and the support conversations that they locked out. If this past was something consistent between all three games then why does he not have any special lines with Garon, for instance, or why does it not come up in the supports!

    It reeeeally felt shoehorned in, and really wasn't a surprising twist either because, you know, that whole no supports thing

    Why couldn't he just have been revealed to be dead by the time you reunited in Valla and under total control of Anankos the whole time...? EVERYONE ELSE WAS


    Also: "I raised you to be a tool of revenge against Garon and royalty in general"

    How exactly, Gunter

    By... not horsewhipping or starving Corrin when ordered?

    By... instilling a sense of morality and faith in others, which OK, Garondorf would probably detest?

    That's called Good Parenting and isn't Anything Special

    Also the Wiki
    Claims the game hints at Gunter being the third unnamed person who visited the Rainbow Sage. And no, there's no hint of that in the games, which are as subtle as a marching band parading down the street at 4 AM in the morning

    signature.png
    Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227 - 3DS: 0473-7774-3652
    JansonWyborn
  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    Didgeridoo wrote: »
    It's pretty sweet, actually! It's Selena throwing herself headfirst into any and every challenge she can to prove she's the best (as per usual). Only this time the insurmountable challenge is Arthur's disastrously bad luck.

    I read it and wow that's much sweeter than I expected. Selena keeps surprising me!

    @SilverWind yay!
    So silly. I agree with everything you said. Gunter basically just serves as a way to kill off Scarlet (which only really serves to give a little sympathy to Ryoma) and provide another boss to battle.

    It would've been more (albeit only slightly) impactful to have kept his supports in Revs! Plus it would have created interesting conflict with any Lady Corrin who'd have chosen to marry him.

    And Corrin finding out they are Vallite royalty related to Azura could've been given a few more lines.

    sig.jpg
    SilverWind
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    The main game not taking into account possible support choices does seem to be a common theme.

    I guess they didn't want to account for all the possible permutations but it does hurt the overall narrative because of it.

    Though to be fair. Bioware has this problem too though they've been getting better at it.

  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    It gets reaaaaally bad in Fates with the second generation.

    List of probably inappropriate matches, with Revs spoilers:
    Corrin x Xander, Camilla, Leo, Elise (adoptive siblings)
    Corrin x Ryoma, Hinota, Takumi, Sakura (suspected blood siblings) (I mean you have to start the S-supports to find out they're not related)
    Corrin x Azura (blood cousin)
    Corrin x Shigure (cousin's son)
    Corrin x Seigbert, Forrest (adoptive nephew)
    Corrin x Shiro, Kiragi (suspected blood nephew and you never find out they're not related in-game)
    Corrin x any other potential nephew/niece through Corrin's sisters
    Corrin x any of Azura's other kids (cousin's son/daughter)
    Asugi x Midori (cousins, although in the English language version they just become good friends)
    Kana x too many possible cousins/second-cousins to name, although at least in the English language version they become girlfriend/boyfriend at most (or rejected entirely)
    Seigbert, Forrest, Shiro, Kiragi x any potential cousins (which I did in both Birthright and Conquest because I kept forgetting!)

    I don't want to add those all up but it is an awful lot

    sig.jpg
  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    Given the lukewarm response to Revelation's story and maps, as well as the grind necessary to pair off 60-odd characters, would I be best served only buying Conquest when Fates comes out here? I intend to do Hard and Lunatic runs, and I could always watch the cross-faction supports on Youtube.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt DON'T call me annie... unless you're my friendRegistered User regular
    I'm curious how--in as non-spoilery way as is possible--much the "true path"-ness of revelations has come across to y'all who've played

    like does it feel like the definitive version of the story, so to speak

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Shen wrote: »
    Given the lukewarm response to Revelation's story and maps, as well as the grind necessary to pair off 60-odd characters, would I be best served only buying Conquest when Fates comes out here? I intend to do Hard and Lunatic runs, and I could always watch the cross-faction supports on Youtube.

    If your main reason for playing is gameplay then yeah Conquest is far and away the best.

    Wybornchiasaur11Whippy
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Janson wrote: »
    It gets reaaaaally bad in Fates with the second generation.

    List of probably inappropriate matches, with Revs spoilers:
    Corrin x Xander, Camilla, Leo, Elise (adoptive siblings)
    Corrin x Ryoma, Hinota, Takumi, Sakura (suspected blood siblings) (I mean you have to start the S-supports to find out they're not related)
    Corrin x Azura (blood cousin)
    Corrin x Shigure (cousin's son)
    Corrin x Seigbert, Forrest (adoptive nephew)
    Corrin x Shiro, Kiragi (suspected blood nephew and you never find out they're not related in-game)
    Corrin x any other potential nephew/niece through Corrin's sisters
    Corrin x any of Azura's other kids (cousin's son/daughter)
    Asugi x Midori (cousins, although in the English language version they just become good friends)
    Kana x too many possible cousins/second-cousins to name, although at least in the English language version they become girlfriend/boyfriend at most (or rejected entirely)
    Seigbert, Forrest, Shiro, Kiragi x any potential cousins (which I did in both Birthright and Conquest because I kept forgetting!)

    I don't want to add those all up but it is an awful lot

    Oh...hey...I
    married my cousin without even knowing.

    Oh well...

    SilverWind
  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I agree with Dragkonius if your reason for playing is pretty much purely gameplay. If you have a passing interest in the characters or story then there are many great characters in Hoshido, plus both Birthright and Revelations do far more to flesh out the story than Conquest does. Revelations's maps are sufficiently more varied and different from Conquest than Birthright's are, so if you do wish to buy a second but not a third, I'd probably choose Revelations over Birthright. But definitely buy Conquest first, then see how much you enjoy the game!

    @Theodore Floosevelt hm, yes, it does. It feels just and complete, just incredibly thin (especially without any of the character interactions of Conquest/Birthright as prior knowledge). A very bare-bones story.

    @Dragkonias I'm sorry. I tried to give warning. D:

    Janson on
    sig.jpg
  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Shen wrote: »
    Given the lukewarm response to Revelation's story and maps, as well as the grind necessary to pair off 60-odd characters, would I be best served only buying Conquest when Fates comes out here? I intend to do Hard and Lunatic runs, and I could always watch the cross-faction supports on Youtube.

    I'd suggest starting with Conquest, and then if you are jonesing for more FE, do Birthright, and then if you still wanting more, do Revelation. It's also gameplay-wise the least interesting/challenging, I think, though that may be because I was severely overlevelled

    I'm curious how--in as non-spoilery way as is possible--much the "true path"-ness of revelations has come across to y'all who've played

    like does it feel like the definitive version of the story, so to speak

    It's definitely the happiest path, and I'm sure if there's ever any continuation to Fates (really unlikely) or reference to Fates in later FEs (somewhat more likely) that Rev would be the version highlighted. Aaaand it does answer a few questions that were only hinted at during the other two version.

    However, having played through Revelation I don't feel it's any more "true" than the other two paths. In fact, Birthright and Conquest both feel more "true" in that I expect at least one side or group of people to come out very unhappy in actual international conflicts

    SilverWind on
    signature.png
    Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227 - 3DS: 0473-7774-3652
    Wyborn
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    I was mostly ignoring Rev stuff and that was my Conquest pairing.

    Hmm...it would have been an interesting story beat I guess.

  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt DON'T call me annie... unless you're my friendRegistered User regular
    hmmmmm muchas gracias for the revelations PoVs, janson and silverwind

    I'd initially thought I'd be good with one path but I've been itching to know what's up with revelations lately. birthright just doesn't interest me as much when combined with the general comments about its gameplay, so i might just jump to rev

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    I would say Rev is right in the middle difficulty wise.

    The biggest gameplay problems are.

    A) With double the paralogues its stupid easy to overlevel unless you purposefully spread XP

    B) Characters aren't level scaled to join chapter so you get quite a few characters who are unusable without outside grinding.

    Janson
  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    It's almost impossible not to be overlevelled in Revelations if you even do like 1/6th of the supports or bench more than half your characters.

    And yes the way everyone comes together and fights alongside Corrin with barely any conflict (and zero conflict after joining) is ludicrous, but I overlook that for all the cross-country supports, even if they are unrealistic. They made me so happy, and a few (like Laslow/Orochi) are amongst the better written of the supports across all three games. Forrest/Kiragi and Shiro/Seigbert gave me especially warm fuzzies.

    sig.jpg
  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt DON'T call me annie... unless you're my friendRegistered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I would say Rev is right in the middle difficulty wise.

    The biggest gameplay problems are.

    A) With double the paralogues its stupid easy to overlevel unless you purposefully spread XP

    B) Characters aren't level scaled to join chapter so you get quite a few characters who are unusable without outside grinding.

    I'm probably just gonna bump up the difficulty and try to limit the paralogue grind, i am pretty ok with ignoring the kids unless they just seem like they want to happen

    in conquest 26 i still only have ophelia and one s-ranked couple, and i kinda like it. the deeprealms explanation is way less jarring a thing when it's a solution to one non-royal kid that just sorta happened as opposed to a nursery for corrin's humpcamp

  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    It's not so much that I'm only interested in gameplay, it's just that I prioritise it over story. It's a shame because I understand Birthright has the best story of the three. I was hoping for Rev to bring the best of both worlds, but unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case.

    As to characters, I think my ideal FE has a cast of like, 24. 70 requires too great an investment to find the ones and the pairings I'd actually enjoy. Awakening was difficult enough, and that was approaching relationships with the intent to make the most powerful children possible. (That turned out to be a fairly pointless exercise in any case due to the relative simplicity of the game, hence my priorities.)

    But yeah, Conquest first and then Revelations if I'm still interested in more FE of a different flavour when I'm done with it. Cheers all.

    3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
    ladi.png
  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    IMO saying Birthright has the best story of the three still isn't saying much. And the margin between Birthright/Revelations is so narrow for me that I might prefer Revelations overall. But really, you won't miss much story-wise by not playing Birthright.

    I agree 70 characters is just far too much, and I also agree Nohr has the better characters overall. It's a bit of a pity because at least half of my personal favourite characters are Hoshidan, but oh well!

    sig.jpg
    Dragkonias
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Honestly. Birthright's story is the "best" in that it isn't as outright offensive as Conquest's. Wouldn't call it quality though. Decent at best.

    I would say I like Rev's more just cause it joins the two factions.

    JansonNaphtali
  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    I'm curious how--in as non-spoilery way as is possible--much the "true path"-ness of revelations has come across to y'all who've played

    like does it feel like the definitive version of the story, so to speak

    That's hard to say

    Like, Hector mode with its secret chapters is definitely the true path of Fire Emblem 7

    And Eirika Mode and Ephraim mode are two halves of a whole as I understand (though having only finished Eirika's path it definitely feels like the Kids Table version of that plot)

    Fates isn't that... neat. Revelations has the bits that tie the plots together but it also lacks the emotional resonance that the other two have, and its characterizations make far less sense than Conquest or Birthright. I'd argue it's actually the worst of the three just in terms of the narrative it presents and its representation of the game's best characters (all of your siblings are very low priority in this narrative and also quite a bit less driven)

    You could take all three of them and be more or less satisfied with how they end, but if I had to rank them I'd say Revelations is at the bottom and either Conquest or Birthright would be at the top, those two are close enough to call it a tie

    dN0T6ur.png
    Kwoaru
  • ZenyatooZenyatoo Registered User regular
    SilverWind wrote: »
    More Revelations ending thoughts
    I think I would have preferred one MORE mindless actually dead person, that being Gunter, rather than what they tried to shoehorn in as his background story traitor twist. I agree with Wyborn--his characterization in Rev is completely incompatible with what it was in Birthright or Conquest and the support conversations that they locked out. If this past was something consistent between all three games then why does he not have any special lines with Garon, for instance, or why does it not come up in the supports!

    It reeeeally felt shoehorned in, and really wasn't a surprising twist either because, you know, that whole no supports thing

    Why couldn't he just have been revealed to be dead by the time you reunited in Valla and under total control of Anankos the whole time...? EVERYONE ELSE WAS


    Also: "I raised you to be a tool of revenge against Garon and royalty in general"

    How exactly, Gunter

    By... not horsewhipping or starving Corrin when ordered?

    By... instilling a sense of morality and faith in others, which OK, Garondorf would probably detest?

    That's called Good Parenting and isn't Anything Special

    Also the Wiki
    Claims the game hints at Gunter being the third unnamed person who visited the Rainbow Sage. And no, there's no hint of that in the games, which are as subtle as a marching band parading down the street at 4 AM in the morning

    I dont know if that second spoiler may have been something in the japanese but not the english.
    I think the implication is that he mentions trying to get more power to fight against garon. And everyone who wants power to go murder dudes ends up at the rainbow sage (See: shura). Plus he's a great knight and the dude who visited was "an unnamed knight."

    It's definitely in the realm of "He has the motive, and the description matches, plus he's old enough, so it could have been him, as opposed to say, Silas or some shit." rather than a concrete "Gunter went to the rainbow sage." plot dropping.

  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Honestly. Birthright's story is the "best" in that it isn't as outright offensive as Conquest's. Wouldn't call it quality though. Decent at best.

    I would say I like Rev's more just cause it joins the two factions.

    Decent is being very, very kind.
    Zenyatoo wrote: »
    I dont know if that second spoiler may have been something in the japanese but not the english.

    Something else lost in translation was the pre-Fates wars between the Nohrian siblings! I had seen hints at 'there used to be other Nohrian siblings, but they're all deceased' online, but I thought it was just inferred from support dialogue. But in the Japanese Leo/Elise supports, Leo explicitly states that there was infighting amongst their siblings. I think it's considerably more interesting if Camilla and Leo (and I suppose Xander, although he was probably untouchable as the legitimate heir) are viewed as the only survivors.

    sig.jpg
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    I warned you about revelations. I warned you

    I thought charlotte-keaton's C-A supports were good but it is totally a support where having an S rank afterwards is dumb and not fitting at all

  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Slammed through the first two chapters of Eirika's intro, took about 20 minutes with some cutscene skipping (not all)

    Can't get overconfident on this stuff. Death is real!

    Also I might have bought something that I'll share with the thread when it's actually in my hands

    dN0T6ur.png
    SilverWind
  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    Righty-o, finished Hidden Truths parts 1 and 2
    Everyone

    Everyone is related to you

    It was pretty fun! But definitely spoilertastic for Revelation the whole way through. It's fun to play as the Awakening kid trio, though!

    ...Though, I kinda wish it went over the story of the trio arriving in Nohr and so on, even if that would mostly be a bunch of talking

    Come to think of it though, they could have made it like the Arena Ferox chapter in Awakening

    signature.png
    Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227 - 3DS: 0473-7774-3652
    Janson
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    camilla... has a... torture... dungeon...

    Whippy
  • SilverWindSilverWind Registered User regular
    I'm sure it's for purely... recreational purposes

    signature.png
    Switch: SW-7603-3284-4227 - 3DS: 0473-7774-3652
    JansonYukira
  • DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Slammed through the first two chapters of Eirika's intro, took about 20 minutes with some cutscene skipping (not all)

    Can't get overconfident on this stuff. Death is real!

    Also I might have bought something that I'll share with the thread when it's actually in my hands

    is it the Chrom butt mousepad

  • WybornWyborn GET EQUIPPED Registered User regular
    Daypigeon wrote: »
    Wyborn wrote: »
    Slammed through the first two chapters of Eirika's intro, took about 20 minutes with some cutscene skipping (not all)

    Can't get overconfident on this stuff. Death is real!

    Also I might have bought something that I'll share with the thread when it's actually in my hands

    is it the Chrom butt mousepad

    F1emSb9.gif

    dN0T6ur.png
  • DaypigeonDaypigeon Registered User regular
    you're incredibly thirsty, got it

    say no more

    SilverWind
  • JansonJanson Registered User regular
    @SilverWind that would be awesome, I would definitely play that!

    sig.jpg
    SilverWind
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Man...I didn't realize Awakening came out in 2012...for some reason the wait time between games felt much shorter.

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Man...I didn't realize Awakening came out in 2012...for some reason the wait time between games felt much shorter.

    That's because it came out Stateside in 2013.

    3 year gap's not too bad.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    So I'm guessing the next FE is gonna be like new 3DS only or...on the NXT if that's this mobile/console thing folks are saying it is.

  • DidgeridooDidgeridoo Registered User regular
    Finally advanced the plot another chapter in Conquest. Chapter 22 talk:
    Guys. GUYS. You gotta stop making promises you don't know you can keep. Have you been able to actually spare soldiers past like, chapter 8? No? Iago always shows up and fucks it up for you?

    Come on now

    Switch Friend Code: SW-0999-1072-9696
    Avatar pixel art from work by Hendry Roesly
    SilverWindButler For Life #1Turkey
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    Didgeridoo wrote: »
    Finally advanced the plot another chapter in Conquest. Chapter 22 talk:
    Guys. GUYS. You gotta stop making promises you don't know you can keep. Have you been able to actually spare soldiers past like, chapter 8? No? Iago always shows up and fucks it up for you?

    Come on now

    But you have to remember
    Corrin is the stupidest lord ever. Of all time.

    Yes, even dumber than Eirika.

    Didgeridoo
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    revelations 13
    well hey fuck you too ryoma, 100% 23 damage two hits asshole standing next to a wyvern riding killer axe holding lady

    I guess I'll go down the hoshidan side first next time so I can pick off scarlet easier

    2x39jD4.jpg
This discussion has been closed.