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Latin America Thread: Because North American politics are too dang tame.

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Posts

  • BogartBogart Because I hate you Registered User, Moderator mod
    Ken's been mad as a box of frogs for years. It's a miracle he got through the interview without mentioning Hitler.

    Andrew Neil is a right wing pundit, but that doesn't invalidate the factual account of what sanctions were applied and when.

    ElldrenOghulkTryCatchershrykeKnuckle DraggerSolarShadowen
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Marco Rubio puts the negotiation with the Venezuelan Army on the table:




    I don't like it, but there's a lot of paramilitary/terrorist cells on Venezuela and the US is trying to avoid being the ones to deal with them, since that means Irak 2.0.

    TryCatcher on
    grumblethorn
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    Its kind of weird that Marco Rubio is doing the state department's job but I guess that is the point we're at now in the US.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
    Rchanen
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited February 12
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Marco Rubio puts the negotiation with the Venezuelan Army on the table:

    I don't like it, but there's a lot of paramilitary/terrorist cells on Venezuela and the US is trying to avoid being the ones to deal with them, since that means Irak 2.0.

    Encouraging a handful of generals to overthrow the government... I mean holy shit nostalgia, this is like going to see an 80s cover band.

    I assume were definitely going to get These Guys Will Defeat Communism[ (Death Squads) or at the very least Economic Populist-elect Dies in a Plane Crash. Also I know everyone says this, but I hope we get more of the old stuff; Fruit Company was just a much more vibrant album than Oil Refinery and of course they close with Poor People Try this New Drug.

    tinwhiskers on
    YamiB.
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    Rubio's interest in this situation is related to his position on the Committee for Foreign Relations. For reference, that was the committee which was chaired by one Elliot Abrams on his way to the Secretary of State position under Reagan - he spent the first day on the job covering up the El Mozote massacre in which El Salvadoran troops trained and backed by the US military slaughtered over 800 people. Abrams' later hits include such classics as the Iran-Contra affair but also, relevant to the current crisis, involvement in the 2002 coup attempt against Hugo Chavez..

    Styrofoam SammichYamiB.
  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    I find it deeply ironic that Maduro recently attended a ceremony celebrating Chavez's failed coup attempt.

    TryCatcherKnuckle DraggerSmurphElldrenShadowen
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Marco Rubio puts the negotiation with the Venezuelan Army on the table:

    I don't like it, but there's a lot of paramilitary/terrorist cells on Venezuela and the US is trying to avoid being the ones to deal with them, since that means Irak 2.0.

    Encouraging a handful of generals to overthrow the government... I mean holy shit nostalgia, this is like going to see an 80s cover band.

    I assume were definitely going to get These Guys Will Defeat Communism[ (Death Squads) or at the very least Economic Populist-elect Dies in a Plane Crash. Also I know everyone says this, but I hope we get more of the old stuff; Fruit Company was just a much more vibrant album than Oil Refinery and of course they close with Poor People Try this New Drug.

    Surprisingly, is not about Maduro per-se. Is about the aftermath. All of this is to avoid to deal with an Irak, where US troops were required to deal with the guerrillas (and didn't have much success on the matter).

    RchanenElldren
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Honestly I think the whole idea is not to send any US troops there at all, but rather to persuade the Military to abandon the government, throw in with the opposition, and push for new elections. Basically turn a cornerstone of Maduro's support away from him. But the soft power apparatus of the US government is screwed so we have Rubio on twitter instead.

    Has the Brazilian or Columbian stance changed at all? I seriously feel that's really important. There'll be no intervention of any kind if there aren't neighboring countries willing to provide staging posts and bases for the operation.

    RchanenshrykeElldrenLabel
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited February 12
    Since is becoming obvious that Maduro is not the one taking the decisions, Pompeo is talking with Russia directly:
    MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo will discuss the situation in Venezuela later on Tuesday by phone, Lavrov said.

    Russia and the United States have backed opposing sides in the political turmoil in Venezuela. Washington has recognized Juan Guaido as interim president, while Moscow continues to back President Nicolas Maduro, a staunch ally.

    TryCatcher on
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    China tries to negotiate with Guaido now that is evident that this isn't going away:

    Is almost like lending over 20$ billion to Chavez and Maduro wasn't a good idea or something.

    And today there were mass protests in honor to the protesters killed in previous years:


    In that protest Guaido declared that the humanitarian aid will enter the country on Feb 23. Will the issue be forced with an intervention? Who knows.

  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    I thought Venezuela was bad, but good Lord, it just seems to be a cluster bomb caving in on itself. What was that estimate that the inflation is projected to go in to the millions of percents?

  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    I thought Venezuela was bad, but good Lord, it just seems to be a cluster bomb caving in on itself. What was that estimate that the inflation is projected to go in to the millions of percents?

    Ouch, there hasn't been an actual hyperinflation bubble of Weimar Germany levels since Zimbabwe 20 years ago.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    I thought Venezuela was bad, but good Lord, it just seems to be a cluster bomb caving in on itself. What was that estimate that the inflation is projected to go in to the millions of percents?

    Ouch, there hasn't been an actual hyperinflation bubble of Weimar Germany levels since Zimbabwe 20 years ago.

    The value of the venezuelan currency effectively reached zero a year or so back. All business in the country is done in dollars, euros and so on. There was an article a few months back about people who had escaped venezuela making purses and bags out of trillion bolivar notes. They have gone through three currencies in 5 years.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    ElldrenTryCatcherSmurphFencingsaxshrykeRchanenKnuckle Dragger
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    I thought Venezuela was bad, but good Lord, it just seems to be a cluster bomb caving in on itself. What was that estimate that the inflation is projected to go in to the millions of percents?

    Ouch, there hasn't been an actual hyperinflation bubble of Weimar Germany levels since Zimbabwe 20 years ago.

    The value of the venezuelan currency effectively reached zero a year or so back. All business in the country is done in dollars, euros and so on. There was an article a few months back about people who had escaped venezuela making purses and bags out of trillion bolivar notes. They have gone through three currencies in 5 years.

    Yeah.

    There hasn't been a single inflection point where it went into massive hyperinflation, rather it's been a long and steady and very high rate of inflation over a decade now. The Bolivar is effectively worthless. Precisely how worthless it is is really just an academic question

    fuck gendered marketing
    TryCatcher
  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    I thought Venezuela was bad, but good Lord, it just seems to be a cluster bomb caving in on itself. What was that estimate that the inflation is projected to go in to the millions of percents?

    Ouch, there hasn't been an actual hyperinflation bubble of Weimar Germany levels since Zimbabwe 20 years ago.

    The value of the venezuelan currency effectively reached zero a year or so back. All business in the country is done in dollars, euros and so on. There was an article a few months back about people who had escaped venezuela making purses and bags out of trillion bolivar notes. They have gone through three currencies in 5 years.

    Yeah.

    There hasn't been a single inflection point where it went into massive hyperinflation, rather it's been a long and steady and very high rate of inflation over a decade now. The Bolivar is effectively worthless. Precisely how worthless it is is really just an academic question

    Indeed, it is pretty much the consensus of everyone in Venezuela and outside it that the full faith and credit of the Venezuelan government which backs the notes is worth nothing, and has been worth nothing for 5 years at least, so pretty much the currency is meaningless other than the brief periods where Maduro tries to force people to use it at gunpoint, and then immediately stops because the government can't even use it themselves because the cost of buying say, a can of coke from china in Bolivars is "All the Bolivars that could ever exist +1"

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
    ElldrenFencingsax
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    What hit home for me was when one guy said, "what I paid for a cup of coffee a few years ago, is now worth more than my house payment."

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    What hit home for me was when one guy said, "what I paid for a cup of coffee a few years ago, is now worth more than my house payment."

    Venezuela needs to adopt the US dollar.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Italy signs their support for Guaido:

    Guglielmo Picchi is a member of the Italian parliament.

    So, that's all the EU except Greece I believe.

    ElldrenArbitraryDescriptor
  • RockinXRockinX Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What hit home for me was when one guy said, "what I paid for a cup of coffee a few years ago, is now worth more than my house payment."

    Venezuela needs to adopt the US dollar.

    According to an economist, that's not exactly a good idea. I think the reasoning behind it was that inflation would affect dollars, rather than a regional currency.

    Or something like that, I really can't remember what his reasoning is.

    RockinX on
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  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    Adopting another currency opens a country up to the danger of defaulting on debts payable in something they can't print more of (hi, Greece). In this case, it wouldn't ameliorate the fundamental issues of sanctions / being a pariah state, a petro-economy in a market where crude is at ~30% of the all time high from only a little over a decade ago, corruption, etc.

    shrykePhillishereKnuckle DraggerFencingsax
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    TL DR wrote: »
    Adopting another currency opens a country up to the danger of defaulting on debts payable in something they can't print more of (hi, Greece). In this case, it wouldn't ameliorate the fundamental issues of sanctions / being a pariah state, a petro-economy in a market where crude is at ~30% of the all time high from only a little over a decade ago, corruption, etc.

    It also means you can't adjust the value of your currency to deal with import/export problems.

    Fencingsax
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Dollarization won't fix the main problem, that is that Venezuela doesn't produce anything since nobody wants to invest on a den of thieves that stole everything not nailed down. The country can't even give judicial security to anybody.

    And since Venezuela has to import everything, the economy at the macro level is already dollarized.

    Is another instance on how nothing will change until Maduro leaves.

    Elldren
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    'Don't want to' and legally can't - buying Venezuelan bonds is illegal for Americans, at least. A couple billion are still held by US firms, which saw something like 46% returns in 2016 as servicing the debt contributed to the country's money problems even while predicting a default - the value fall by nearly half when Venezuela finally defaulted. Once imagines they expect to be made whole following a regime change and implementation of brutal austerity and re-opening of oil sales to the US, demonstrating that classic disaster capitalism: have a hand in creating or amplifying a crisis, invest in the crisis, and collect at the end by buying out after things have crashed and/or recouping your losses with bailouts.

    Styrofoam Sammich
  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    At this point, the only thing Venezuela has left to trade are the gold that Maduro is trying to ship out of the country and cripplingly imbalanced contracts for oil and other natural resources. With the way Chavez and Maduro went rampant with nationalizations, Venezuela is going to have to bend over backwards to get foreign firms to reinvest back in the country.

    TryCatcher
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Nobody forced the regime to do things like breaking their contracts with Conoco Phillips, that was all them.

  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    At this point, the only thing Venezuela has left to trade are the gold that Maduro is trying to ship out of the country and cripplingly imbalanced contracts for oil and other natural resources. With the way Chavez and Maduro went rampant with nationalizations, Venezuela is going to have to bend over backwards to get foreign firms to reinvest back in the country.

    I mean, there's the gold that was already being held in the UK as security against a debt that has been repaid, that isn't being freed for use to buy food or anything else.

    It's very "the other party is acting in bad faith and is totally untrustworthy"

    bwvzvfh458w3.png

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    Said gold was also being held well before the current crisis so you cant pin it on "well Guiado is the real leader"

    Styrofoam Sammich on
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    First thing, never is too late for another round of individual sanctions:
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury Department on Friday imposed sanctions on top Venezuelan security officials and the head of Venezuelan state oil company PDVSA as it ratcheted up pressure on embattled Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro over an election it says was illegal.

    Along with PDVSA head Manuel Quevedo, Treasury targeted three top Venezuelan intelligence officials and Rafael Bastardo, who U.S. officials say is the head of a national police unit responsible for dozens of extrajudicial killings carried out in masked nighttime raids on Maduro’s behalf.

    “We are sanctioning officials in charge of Maduro’s security and intelligence apparatus, which has systematically violated human rights and suppressed democracy, including through torture and other brutal use of force,” U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said in a statement.
    Second, the humanitarian aid is already making it's way to the border:

    "Leaked". Right.

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