But to add to that I think older fighters were pretty complex too...folks were just younger and thus had a lot more time on their hands.
Hell, I remember having 100 match sets regularly when I was a kid.
I mean, in a way, sure, but it doesn't seem to follow in a broader sense. A fraction of a fraction actually care about complexity, and saying the audience aged out of it doesn't really make sense when there are x1000 as many people playing and buying games now as there were when these franchises kicked off. There are more younger kids with time on their hands now than there have ever been. It's just that nobody wants complexity across the board, which is why LoL and DotA got popular, not the mention Halo, CoD, and CS. This may actually be a rare case of the kids being the ones who are wrong!
I'm so done with fighting games. It's sad that I had to hang up my gi, but I'm so burnt out after playing them for almost three decades now. SF5 was a mess at launch and completely boring to play. Truth be told, I was waning hard during SF4 though.
I dropped Tekken after 5 and SC after 2. My peak fighting game years were 94-2004. For me, that was the golden age of fighting games.
These days I just don't find them appealing anymore. Too samey or overly complex. Still enjoy watching high-level play for the mind games and skill involved. The one thing I'd love to see out of MC:I is a return to MvC1 gameplay. 2v2 fighting with limited assists. Really made those assists matter and prevented the game from becoming a bunch of screen filling beams, rockets, and fireball nonsense.
I know you're a big Nintendo fan so this might be a silly question, but did you try Pokken before? Might be worth a look since the new Switch version comes out this week and it's not really mechanically demanding or hugely complex, but has some fairly unique gameplay with it's weird dual-phase system.
I've looked at some videos but didn't think it was for me. Honestly, I'm done with all fighting games at this point. Moved on to other games that I can find time to finish (and sometimes even *gasp* finish).
My desire and drive to play fighting games is just gone. It sucks because they were such a big part of my life for a long time, but all things must end eventually. I don't want to put in the time to "get good" anymore. It's all so...boring now. It's not fighting games, it's me. My competitive fire for them is simply non-existent.
There's a lot more things that have driven me away but I don't want to be anymore of a downer than I have to be. People love their favorites and that's cool. I enjoy watching high level play from time to time. Most of the time when I remember the good times I had with fighting games, it was in the arcades or on the couch with my friends. Online play is necessary and a good thing, but it can't capture the fun of a person being right there next to you.
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Marvel is good, but the fact they look the same as they used to is murdering me due to muscle memory. More command normals and different ways or inputs is just.....argh.
I might not be able to use my boy Nova due to it.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
But to add to that I think older fighters were pretty complex too...folks were just younger and thus had a lot more time on their hands.
Hell, I remember having 100 match sets regularly when I was a kid.
I mean, in a way, sure, but it doesn't seem to follow in a broader sense. A fraction of a fraction actually care about complexity, and saying the audience aged out of it doesn't really make sense when there are x1000 as many people playing and buying games now as there were when these franchises kicked off. There are more younger kids with time on their hands now than there have ever been. It's just that nobody wants complexity across the board, which is why LoL and DotA got popular, not the mention Halo, CoD, and CS. This may actually be a rare case of the kids being the ones who are wrong!
Thing I will agrue is "complexity" is a loaded term.
There isn't anything wrong with having a learning curve but I do feel that sometimes a game is more bloated and obtuse than complex. And folks will argue complexity for complexity's sake without asking if it actually helps the game's design.
That said fighters are always gonna be a bit more demanding than other genres just because of their structure. But I think even within the genre different levels of technical demand can exist.
Marvel is good, but the fact they look the same as they used to is murdering me due to muscle memory. More command normals and different ways or inputs is just.....argh.
I might not be able to use my boy Nova due to it.
This might explain why I'm using completely different characters than I did in MvC3, not just in who they are but they play totally differently.
From Sakura/Ken/Tron to She-Hulk/Spencer/Phoenix to Gamora/Carol/Time, I loves me some Marvel.
I'm liking Infinite so far, but missing my dedicated launcher button from MvC3. Rolling the stick from down to forward to up at the end of a low ground string results in a fireball instead of a launcher.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited September 2017
Another reason to play on a Hitbox.
My only wish is that they made like a "Hitbox XL" that had normal size action buttons, rather than the small ones. I know the idea is to play more like a keyboard and less like slapping a stick, but I have meaty hands. Oh well, even with the small buttons, you can take my Hitbox from my cold, dead hands. Especially now that I have a Brooks for it and don't need to rely on shaky legacy controller support.
This might explain why I'm using completely different characters than I did in MvC3, not just in who they are but they play totally differently.
From Sakura/Ken/Tron to She-Hulk/Spencer/Phoenix to Gamora/Carol/Time, I loves me some Marvel.
Same here.
Hulk isn't TOO different....mostly....so I am using him and Nemesis of all people. Big Boy Team.
Figured out a tag combo from Nemesis to Hulk that does a decent amount, but I think I want to wait for lab monsters to figure some more stuff out. The combos are tighter here than in 3 to pull off.
XBL: Bizazedo
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
But to add to that I think older fighters were pretty complex too...folks were just younger and thus had a lot more time on their hands.
Hell, I remember having 100 match sets regularly when I was a kid.
I mean, in a way, sure, but it doesn't seem to follow in a broader sense. A fraction of a fraction actually care about complexity, and saying the audience aged out of it doesn't really make sense when there are x1000 as many people playing and buying games now as there were when these franchises kicked off. There are more younger kids with time on their hands now than there have ever been. It's just that nobody wants complexity across the board, which is why LoL and DotA got popular, not the mention Halo, CoD, and CS. This may actually be a rare case of the kids being the ones who are wrong!
Thing I will agrue is "complexity" is a loaded term.
There isn't anything wrong with having a learning curve but I do feel that sometimes a game is more bloated and obtuse than complex. And folks will argue complexity for complexity's sake without asking if it actually helps the game's design.
That said fighters are always gonna be a bit more demanding than other genres just because of their structure. But I think even within the genre different levels of technical demand can exist.
Sure, and that was probably the wrong word to use. If we're talking pure mechanical learning curves (which is really the biggest barrier in fighting games), then A: modern fighting games are easier to learn and play from top to bottom, and B: the idea that people don't have enough time anymore still doesn't wash with me because there are way more people with way more time still. It's not like kids stopped playing video games after the 90s ended. They just play different games now.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
The timing is tighter, but I think in general the inputs are easier. No fly/unfly (that I've seen yet), no DP motion (they are all down/down now), and the combos tend to all be LP -> LP -> HP -> HK, extender (launch, or whatever), followed by the same string, followed by another extender. I'm sure as people get all optimization station with it that will change, but for now, you can do some pretty sick combos just practicing string -> launcher -> string -> hyper. Again, it's not optimal, but for day 2 of the game, I'll take it. Eventually I'll start working on floor/wall bounce tag combos and such.
Designing fighting games that allow for (and come packaged with!) deep single player content and more than just two players playing at a time is the real secret to making a smash-hit fighting game that will bring in people that just don't have "competition!!!" as a motivation to play, or even find competition a discouragement to picking up the game. I know this for a fact.
How do I know this for a fact?
Because one of the most successful fighting game franchises of the past ten years, selling over 10 million units, is Dark Souls.
I'm not normally a fighting game player, but I am a huge Mega Man fan, so I got Marvel vs Capcom Infinite and blazed through the story mode today while my cousin watched.
This plot was bonkers, but the way Ultron-Sigma got taken out made me pretty happy!
Watching a cutscene and seeing a computer display featuring the words "Infinity Buster" got me super hyped for the finale.
Hawkeye and Captain Marvel are probably the worst, but most of the human-skinned characters suffer this from one extent to another. That said, I guess I can't knock Capcom for not accounting for people hacking the camera.
+1
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I kind of feel bad for the developers at Capcom (the people in the trenches, not the execs). They are clearly being asked to produce more and more content, on a smaller and smaller budget, to please their corporate task masters and they just can't catch a break. SF5 releases completely broken and lacking content, clearly needed another six months in the cooker. Now MvCI fixes those issues (it's functional and it has expected content), but the art and presentation clearly needed another six months in the cooker.
In the end, I'd rather we be an an MvCI situation (functional, playable, questionable art), then a SF5 (broken as fuck)...but sheesh.
I kind of feel bad for the developers at Capcom (the people in the trenches, not the execs). They are clearly being asked to produce more and more content, on a smaller and smaller budget, to please their corporate task masters and they just can't catch a break. SF5 releases completely broken and lacking content, clearly needed another six months in the cooker. Now MvCI fixes those issues (it's functional and it has expected content), but the art and presentation clearly needed another six months in the cooker.
In the end, I'd rather we be an an MvCI situation (functional, playable, questionable art), then a SF5 (broken as fuck)...but sheesh.
Agreed. Not sure why they didn't just go with flatter MvC3-style textures, though. The game might be 6 years old, but it looks gorgeous rendered at 4k.
+1
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Unreal Engine. They probably couldn't figure out how, in a rushed development cycle, to easily get around the physical based rendering system. Lets not forget it took the Guilty Gear devs a SHIT TON of time, and bastardizing huge parts of Unreal's graphics code, to create Xrd. From my understanding they basically had to bring in an Epic graphics engineer, as professional services, just to get over the hump of that change to the engine.
But to add to that I think older fighters were pretty complex too...folks were just younger and thus had a lot more time on their hands.
Hell, I remember having 100 match sets regularly when I was a kid.
I mean, in a way, sure, but it doesn't seem to follow in a broader sense. A fraction of a fraction actually care about complexity, and saying the audience aged out of it doesn't really make sense when there are x1000 as many people playing and buying games now as there were when these franchises kicked off. There are more younger kids with time on their hands now than there have ever been. It's just that nobody wants complexity across the board, which is why LoL and DotA got popular, not the mention Halo, CoD, and CS. This may actually be a rare case of the kids being the ones who are wrong!
Thing I will agrue is "complexity" is a loaded term.
There isn't anything wrong with having a learning curve but I do feel that sometimes a game is more bloated and obtuse than complex. And folks will argue complexity for complexity's sake without asking if it actually helps the game's design.
That said fighters are always gonna be a bit more demanding than other genres just because of their structure. But I think even within the genre different levels of technical demand can exist.
Sure, and that was probably the wrong word to use. If we're talking pure mechanical learning curves (which is really the biggest barrier in fighting games), then A: modern fighting games are easier to learn and play from top to bottom, and B: the idea that people don't have enough time anymore still doesn't wash with me because there are way more people with way more time still. It's not like kids stopped playing video games after the 90s ended. They just play different games now.
My age comment was moreso directed at the older folks who grew up on fighters. Lot of us are probably in our 30s and have a lot more responsibilities.
apart from new game jitters the most challenging thing is just keeping pressure up and thats mostly to do with movement.... air dashing crossups, etc..
Ok, just finished the story mode. That was a lot longer than I thought it would be! The storyline is disjointed and silly in a lot of places, but Capcom gets credit for effort. At one point, Ryu
shoryuken's a giant fucking dragon in the head
so that was kinda neat.
I'm mostly sold on the fighting mechanics; it took a couple dozen matches before I figured out how things were working. There's still some wonkiness in terms of blocking that I haven't quite got a handle on, though. Holding up-back, for example, doesn't result in a perpetual back-jump-while-blocking loop. I often get hit by normal-height attacks when my character touches the ground.
How do you guys have your fingers positioned above the buttons on a fight stick?
UMvC3 was the first time I went to a stick, and it made sense (index, middle, ring on LMS - thumb got launcher).
Now I'm struggling to figure out how my hand should rest.
I have it set up:
LP HP TAG
LK HK STONE
and I constantly either ending up shifting my hand over past the LP and LK after I use a stone, or just plain messing up because I can't get to HK fast enough in the BnB.
Any advice?
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
How do you guys have your fingers positioned above the buttons on a fight stick?
UMvC3 was the first time I went to a stick, and it made sense (index, middle, ring on LMS - thumb got launcher).
Now I'm struggling to figure out how my hand should rest.
I have it set up:
LP HP TAG
LK HK STONE
and I constantly either ending up shifting my hand over past the LP and LK after I use a stone, or just plain messing up because I can't get to HK fast enough in the BnB.
Any advice?
For your situation, I just shift my thumb under to hit HK. To crib from piano notation, it's LP (2), LK (1), HP (3), HK (1)
Edit: Since my index finger is always on LP, I use it as an anchor to quickly regain my thumb position whenever I shift.
Played MVC for hours when a friend brought it over, I passed and after playing it...I'm still passing. Holy hell the game is hideous, I thought they might have farmed out the models or something. The gameplay was also pretty dull, all the characters seemed to be fighting in slow motion. The capcom characters all seemed underpowered / underwhelming and the fact that you can just gemspam constantly really killed any sense of actual fun. Guess it's back to Injustice 2 to await DBZ.
3DS Code - 5370-0463-9307 Wii U - 'Nocero' XBox ID - therealmasume PS4 ID - realmasume
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I mean, in a way, sure, but it doesn't seem to follow in a broader sense. A fraction of a fraction actually care about complexity, and saying the audience aged out of it doesn't really make sense when there are x1000 as many people playing and buying games now as there were when these franchises kicked off. There are more younger kids with time on their hands now than there have ever been. It's just that nobody wants complexity across the board, which is why LoL and DotA got popular, not the mention Halo, CoD, and CS. This may actually be a rare case of the kids being the ones who are wrong!
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
But with Yamcha already confirmed adding Mr. Satan will throw all the balance to hell!
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
I know you're a big Nintendo fan so this might be a silly question, but did you try Pokken before? Might be worth a look since the new Switch version comes out this week and it's not really mechanically demanding or hugely complex, but has some fairly unique gameplay with it's weird dual-phase system.
My desire and drive to play fighting games is just gone. It sucks because they were such a big part of my life for a long time, but all things must end eventually. I don't want to put in the time to "get good" anymore. It's all so...boring now. It's not fighting games, it's me. My competitive fire for them is simply non-existent.
There's a lot more things that have driven me away but I don't want to be anymore of a downer than I have to be. People love their favorites and that's cool. I enjoy watching high level play from time to time. Most of the time when I remember the good times I had with fighting games, it was in the arcades or on the couch with my friends. Online play is necessary and a good thing, but it can't capture the fun of a person being right there next to you.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
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She'll snap it off.
During the sex.
"I'm keeping this, bring me the next one."
...so hot.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
I might not be able to use my boy Nova due to it.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Thing I will agrue is "complexity" is a loaded term.
There isn't anything wrong with having a learning curve but I do feel that sometimes a game is more bloated and obtuse than complex. And folks will argue complexity for complexity's sake without asking if it actually helps the game's design.
That said fighters are always gonna be a bit more demanding than other genres just because of their structure. But I think even within the genre different levels of technical demand can exist.
This might explain why I'm using completely different characters than I did in MvC3, not just in who they are but they play totally differently.
From Sakura/Ken/Tron to She-Hulk/Spencer/Phoenix to Gamora/Carol/Time, I loves me some Marvel.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
My only wish is that they made like a "Hitbox XL" that had normal size action buttons, rather than the small ones. I know the idea is to play more like a keyboard and less like slapping a stick, but I have meaty hands. Oh well, even with the small buttons, you can take my Hitbox from my cold, dead hands. Especially now that I have a Brooks for it and don't need to rely on shaky legacy controller support.
Same here.
Hulk isn't TOO different....mostly....so I am using him and Nemesis of all people. Big Boy Team.
Figured out a tag combo from Nemesis to Hulk that does a decent amount, but I think I want to wait for lab monsters to figure some more stuff out. The combos are tighter here than in 3 to pull off.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Sure, and that was probably the wrong word to use. If we're talking pure mechanical learning curves (which is really the biggest barrier in fighting games), then A: modern fighting games are easier to learn and play from top to bottom, and B: the idea that people don't have enough time anymore still doesn't wash with me because there are way more people with way more time still. It's not like kids stopped playing video games after the 90s ended. They just play different games now.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
How do I know this for a fact?
Because one of the most successful fighting game franchises of the past ten years, selling over 10 million units, is Dark Souls.
PVP is not the main attraction.
Capcom has Monster Hunter for that group.
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
This plot was bonkers, but the way Ultron-Sigma got taken out made me pretty happy!
PvP got kinda bastardized, way less fun, and absurdly overpowered for the Host in Bloodborne and especially Dark Souls 3. It sucks.
PvP was good in Demon's, Dark, and Dark 2.
Also, I feel like a "Git Gud" is appropriate considering the Souls fanbase.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
"I can make a quick scan of my pleather messenger bag. Maybe nobody will notice."
"Brilliant!"
Hawkeye and Captain Marvel are probably the worst, but most of the human-skinned characters suffer this from one extent to another. That said, I guess I can't knock Capcom for not accounting for people hacking the camera.
In the end, I'd rather we be an an MvCI situation (functional, playable, questionable art), then a SF5 (broken as fuck)...but sheesh.
Agreed. Not sure why they didn't just go with flatter MvC3-style textures, though. The game might be 6 years old, but it looks gorgeous rendered at 4k.
My age comment was moreso directed at the older folks who grew up on fighters. Lot of us are probably in our 30s and have a lot more responsibilities.
The Galaxy... is at peace.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
apart from new game jitters the most challenging thing is just keeping pressure up and thats mostly to do with movement.... air dashing crossups, etc..
I'm mostly sold on the fighting mechanics; it took a couple dozen matches before I figured out how things were working. There's still some wonkiness in terms of blocking that I haven't quite got a handle on, though. Holding up-back, for example, doesn't result in a perpetual back-jump-while-blocking loop. I often get hit by normal-height attacks when my character touches the ground.
also reality gem is OP capcom nerf plz
UMvC3 was the first time I went to a stick, and it made sense (index, middle, ring on LMS - thumb got launcher).
Now I'm struggling to figure out how my hand should rest.
I have it set up:
LP HP TAG
LK HK STONE
and I constantly either ending up shifting my hand over past the LP and LK after I use a stone, or just plain messing up because I can't get to HK fast enough in the BnB.
Any advice?
I always knew Japan was out of this world.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
For your situation, I just shift my thumb under to hit HK. To crib from piano notation, it's LP (2), LK (1), HP (3), HK (1)
Edit: Since my index finger is always on LP, I use it as an anchor to quickly regain my thumb position whenever I shift.
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XBox ID - therealmasume
PS4 ID - realmasume
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA
Looks better than most selfies to me. :P
"We have years of struggle ahead, mostly within ourselves." - Made in USA