[MtG] That was a real nice declaration

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  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Wotc please use hello kitty sleeves for this

    Kwoaru on
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    KilroyLucedes
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    They're probably gonna use those Ultra-Pro sleeves with the corners sharp enough to cut through a car door.

    GreenCurly_Brace
  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    Owen Turtenwald tweeted asking what if they want to read the back face of a card.

    Which might be a valid concern except this is only for the Pro Tour (for now) and the idea that PT players wouldn't know the backsides of the cards(particularly with the little p/t prompts on the front) is just silly.

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Owen Turtenwald tweeted asking what if they want to read the back face of a card.

    Which might be a valid concern except this is only for the Pro Tour (for now) and the idea that PT players wouldn't know the backsides of the cards(particularly with the little p/t prompts on the front) is just silly.

    He's just being contrary because he's fucking Owen Turtenwald. Like p1p1 you open a pack with a Thalia's Lieutenant and a Arlinn Kord you really need to know how much her ult costs? Really? He's a goose.

    NullzoneThe Betgirl
  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. i did meet some of the most insufferable people but, they also met meRegistered User regular
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    KnobKilroyThe BetgirlE.CoyoteTommy2HandsLucedesCurly_BraceShadowen
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    What if I need the oracle text on each card in my pack before I make my pick

  • KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    the only reason that turtenwald isn't the biggest prick writing for cfb is because pvddr is there

    NullzoneThe BetgirlKlendy
  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    iZnjoN7.jpg

    This is actually pretty damn insulting
    to rats

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
    Klendy
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    iZnjoN7.jpg

    how staggeringly apt

  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    Kilroy wrote: »
    the only reason that turtenwald isn't the biggest prick writing for cfb is because pvddr is there

    I disagree.

    I think Owen is worse than Pablo.

    APODionysus
  • APODionysusAPODionysus Registered User regular
    God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.

    Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.

    Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.

  • KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    Kilroy wrote: »
    the only reason that turtenwald isn't the biggest prick writing for cfb is because pvddr is there

    I disagree.

    I think Owen is worse than Pablo.

    owen never whined about wotc banning someone who committed sexual assault from playing magic, to my knowledge

    Kilroy on
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.

    Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.

    Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.

    I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.

    Quire.jpg
    KwoaruTheodore Floosevelt
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    I'm not really sure how that's even a question though, if you're unsure and wanna check the back then you pop that thing out and look

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    APODionysusTheodore FlooseveltNorgoth
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.

    I Do Design | I PSN- Subtle_Ties | 3DS: 3840-5210-2008 (Subtle)
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    Cause they are playing for fat stacks

    well I guess hearthstone makes them look like baby stacks but still

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  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    Cause they are playing for fat stacks

    well I guess hearthstone makes them look like baby stacks but still

    official blizzard tournament support from blizzard is super bad and the hearthstone pro scene is absolutely garbage to get into

    also hearthstone regularly has like 25-60k viewers while mtg has like 3k when there isn't a tournament going and lsv or kenji aren't on

  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    Cause they are playing for fat stacks

    well I guess hearthstone makes them look like baby stacks but still

    official blizzard tournament support from blizzard is super bad and the hearthstone pro scene is absolutely garbage to get into

    also hearthstone regularly has like 25-60k viewers while mtg has like 3k when there isn't a tournament going and lsv or kenji aren't on

    Yeah but that prize purse

    edit why is there no two second clip of jacob saying "but the prize"

    Kwoaru on
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  • APODionysusAPODionysus Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.

    There are a number of good reasons:

    1) as pointed out on Twitter under normal rules seating arrangement can play a huge role in what you know. If they can't get enough round tables and have to use rectangular tables then the people at the ends are at a disadvantage since they physically can't SEE the cards people at the far end from them are taking. Meanwhile someone in the middle can see everything and has a leg up. With the amount on the line at the PT the idea that where you get randomly sat at a table can have that kind of impact is significant.

    2) They way they are drafting now (with sleeves) emulates Magic Online more. Why is this important? Because if your not a member of a large testing team capable of renting a house for a week and jamming a million drafts together, the best way to get a bunch of reps in with SOI is: Magic Online. That means that drafting the old (normal) way gives another extra advantage to the Large Testing Teams because they can get FAR more reps with that aspect of the draft intact.

    The second one - I suspect - is the real reason Owen is upset and the "what if I want to read the back" is merely a cover. Because, yeah, as Kwoaru said, the answer is obvious.

    APODionysus on
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.

    Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.

    Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.

    I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.

    I expect professional football players to know everyone on the other team and the rules of football. The same goes for professional fucking everythings. If I, as a goddamn casual tryhard have every card in SOI memorized based on the art, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for a professional.

    PROFESSIONAL.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.

    Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.

    Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.

    I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.

    I expect professional football players to know everyone on the other team and the rules of football. The same goes for professional fucking everythings. If I, as a goddamn casual tryhard have every card in SOI memorized based on the art, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for a professional.

    PROFESSIONAL.

    I don't think you have every card memorized. People forget sometimes, man.

    Quire.jpg
  • WhippyWhippy Moderator, Admin Emeritus Admin Emeritus
    hey @APODionysus what lantern list are you on currently

    Kwoaru
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    God dammit Owen. Your appearance on LR had rehabbed my opinion of you a bit. Not a lot, but certainly somewhat. Then you go and do this.

    Thing is: it's not even the best arguement against the change! You could argue that it's too late when a whole GP has already been played. You could argue that at such a high level the signaling of knowing DFC picks and passes add a interesting dynamic to the draft. You could argue that most players don't get to draft paper this way thus the PT should reflect that.

    Now ALL of those arguments are far outweighed by the arguments FOR the change. I think the change is great. But they are all better arguments than "what if I want to read the back". This is the Pro Tour. You damn well know the cards.

    I feel like you guys are heavily over exaggerating the pros memorization of every single card in the set. Owen isn't doing anything unconscionable here.

    I expect professional football players to know everyone on the other team and the rules of football. The same goes for professional fucking everythings. If I, as a goddamn casual tryhard have every card in SOI memorized based on the art, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for a professional.

    PROFESSIONAL.

    I don't think you have every card memorized. People forget sometimes, man.

    I have basically every playable Magic card memorized. Knowing what the terrible ones do isn't worth the brain space, but I know some of those, too.

    So while I may not have every SOI card memorized, I know all of them that would reasonably go into a deck.

  • Up JobUp Job Registered User regular
    I don't know, I think its understandable if they needed to check something like if it's like breakneck rider and they forgot if it's "every attacker" or "every other attacker" that gets the +1/0 and trample.

  • metaghostmetaghost Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.

    There seems to be some indication that they reviewed the draft pods from this weekend (which used rectangular tables) and realized that seat position played a significant role in your success as players had the potential to identify the archetypes each player was in and draft accordingly.

    EDIT: Also, y'all are being super-reactionary towards a mundane yet seemingly sincere question about protocol at an event in which even minor infractions can be very costly. I get that Turtenwald can be a smug toad of human, but that tweet is not the sort of thing I would expect folks to got hot and bothered by.

    metaghost on
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    APODionysusScis
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.

    There seems to be some indication that they reviewed the draft pods from this weekend (which used rectangular tables) and realized that seat position played a significant role in your success as players had the potential to identify the archetypes each player was in and draft accordingly.

    Really I think the most solid answer is that it doesn't make sense to have drafts go one way on MTGO and a different way in paper. And they only went the visible route in paper because they didn't have the means to prevent it! Except now they do. So, problem solved?

  • metaghostmetaghost Registered User regular
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    metaghost wrote: »
    I just really don't get why they have a separate way to draft than the rest of us do.

    There seems to be some indication that they reviewed the draft pods from this weekend (which used rectangular tables) and realized that seat position played a significant role in your success as players had the potential to identify the archetypes each player was in and draft accordingly.

    Really I think the most solid answer is that it doesn't make sense to have drafts go one way on MTGO and a different way in paper. And they only went the visible route in paper because they didn't have the means to prevent it! Except now they do. So, problem solved?

    Right. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do this for future GPs.

    Bandcamp (I make weird rap music) / PSN: Mugen_Kikaider
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    GPs require many more man hours to open product and stamp it, so, while possible, it doesn't seem feasible.

  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. i did meet some of the most insufferable people but, they also met meRegistered User regular
    i don't think it's unreasonable to not have perfect memory of what the backside of a DFC does, even if you've been jamming drafts since the set came out, no matter how much someone else may claim that their memory is perfect

    that said, that's why this announcement comes in advance, so that pros going to the event know that if there are any DFCs that they might misremember - neck breaker is a great example, because it's super common to have both "every creature" and "every other creature" - they can put in the time ahead of time to make sure they're 100% up on them

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    The Betgirl
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    Remembering what the playable DFCs in this set do isn't asking much

    KalTorakTommy2HandsPinfeldorfDocshifty
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Realtor Santa ClaritaRegistered User regular
    I mean, it's 18 cards, and a couple of them are no-holds-barred windmill slams that don't necessitate any reading of the backside. And...4? of them don't do anything on the back.

  • NullzoneNullzone Registered User regular
    Alternate theory: Pro players whined about potentially having to announce half their deck because of the DFC draft procedures as they were in INN, where you would show your DFCs around the table and then announce when you took it so people didn't have to look at everyone else's pass

  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    edited April 2016
    no, cuz pros are pissed about it

    it's entirely cuz Finkel bitched about table shape and Helene went 'JESUS CHRIST, FINE'

    Knob on
  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    I'm starting to wonder if there's actal powers to magic cards, like playing it reverses your age.

    Play long enough and turn pro and you seem to become a full out baby

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
    Whippy
  • Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    anyone ever played this danger room/battle box format before? it's sort of a curated pseudo-hearthstone thing that sounds pretty fun

    http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/shadows-over-the-danger-room/

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  • stimtokolosstimtokolos Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    So I saw this UWR starfield build.
    It feels good when you:
    T2 Vessel of volatility
    T3 Starfield
    T4 Bring back Vessel and Chandra

    It also feels really good to be able to hover around 5 enchantments including starfield. Then sac vessel to dodge removal with all your enchantments, then bring it back next turn.
    I hate the spikes reddit but they do have some neat decklists sometimes: https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/4fi7hf/standard_rw_starfield_at_invitational

    stimtokolos on
  • The BetgirlThe Betgirl I'm Molly! Registered User regular
    This week in Magic Story, Liliana tries her best to take care of a sweet boy who's really just trying his hardest.

    Steam PSN: YerFriendMolly
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  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular

  • metaghostmetaghost Registered User regular
    This week in Magic Story, Liliana tries her best to take care of a sweet boy who's really just trying his hardest.

    This was a very 4/20 edition of Magic Story: everyone is suffering from auditory hallucinations, paranoia, and a craving for human flesh.

    Bandcamp (I make weird rap music) / PSN: Mugen_Kikaider
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    Awww Jace is Liliana's little puppy

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    Whippy
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