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[DC Movies] Finally, Billy Dee Williams gets to be Two-Face.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Batman was a little over the top. loved Superman though. I'd pay money for a G&M origin movie just about Superman.

    daveNYC on
    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    I just watched the Wonder Woman movie. I was rather disappointed. It was very one-tone, constantly going back to the war of the sexes. It was pushing a lot of gender stereotypes and a strictly heterosexual world view. Which I guess is true for most superhero movies. But in most others, it's kind of an annoying background noise. In this one, it was the core of the story.

    sig.gif
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    I just watched the Wonder Woman movie. I was rather disappointed. It was very one-tone, constantly going back to the war of the sexes. It was pushing a lot of gender stereotypes and a strictly heterosexual world view. Which I guess is true for most superhero movies. But in most others, it's kind of an annoying background noise. In this one, it was the core of the story.

    DC isn't going to put any LGBT characters in cartoons. :(

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    Batwoman was in Bad Blood and they showed her flirting with Rene Montoya.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Batwoman was in Bad Blood and they showed her flirting with Rene Montoya.

    That's good progress, at least.

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    Jessica Jones did some of that. There was a same sex relationship front and center, and while the portrayal wasn't exactly glowing it wasn't treated like something abnormal. Kilgrave got swishy at times, and certainly seemed to be enjoying himself scenes.

    But that's Netflix stuff, not movies.

    Honestly, Thor and GotG seem like the places you'll get that kind of thing first. They already have a strong element of space silliness that could easily transition into camp.

    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Also, camp isn't a substitute for LGBT representation anymore. That ship has sailed, and contemporary and particularly young LGBT folks don't like or get camp, and in some cases are actively annoyed by it.

  • Mego ThorMego Thor "I say thee...NAY!" Registered User regular
    Camp is best left in the late 60's with Adam West.

    kyrcl.png
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

    Batman Forever was the 6th highest grossing movie in 1995. "But the audience!" is not a good argument against that movie.


    Also, the last camp Batman was technically Batman and Robin


    Batman and Robin was 12th. So not as great, but studios would still maim for numbers like that.

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

    Batman Forever was the 6th highest grossing movie in 1995. "But the audience!" is not a good argument against that movie.


    Also, the last camp Batman was technically Batman and Robin


    Batman and Robin was 12th. So not as great, but studios would still maim for numbers like that.

    I may have meant Batman and Robin actually.

    The one with Arnold as Mr. Freeze. The one that killed the franchise. It was extremely campy and people did not like it.

    It's the film that George Clooney will give you your money back for if you tell him you saw it in the theater.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Mego Thor wrote: »
    Camp is best left in the late 60's with Adam West.

    And if Poison Elves ever gets optioned, the Purple Marauder would disagree.
    Nyar!

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Mego Thor wrote: »
    Camp is best left in the late 60's with Adam West.

    Counterpoint: Brave and the Bold.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    Numbers don't tell the whole story. Yes, Batman & Robin did well at the box office. But there's a reason why there wasn't another Batman movie until Nolan came along.

    And now it looks like the pendulum has swung too far the opposite direction with BvS.

  • AstaerethAstaereth In the belly of the beastRegistered User regular
    Also, camp isn't a substitute for LGBT representation anymore. That ship has sailed, and contemporary and particularly young LGBT folks don't like or get camp, and in some cases are actively annoyed by it.

    Oh, I agree. I would have hoped for real LGBT representation, but that's not what we got either.

    ACsTqqK.jpg
  • glithertglithert Registered User regular
    Batman and Robin is a great movie if you assume it's a comedy

  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    glithert wrote: »
    Batman and Robin is a great movie if you assume it's a comedy

    nah, even as a comedy its shit.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    glithert wrote: »
    Batman and Robin is a great movie if you assume it's a comedy

    nah, even as a comedy its shit.

    Unintentional comedy. Except for Mr. Freeze, then it's bad comedy.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Now I know it's easy to rip on Batman and Robin, so...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R39e30FL37U

  • Mego ThorMego Thor "I say thee...NAY!" Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Mego Thor wrote: »
    Camp is best left in the late 60's with Adam West.

    Counterpoint: Brave and the Bold.

    Outrageous! Brave and the Bold was just good fun.

    kyrcl.png
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

    Batman Forever was the 6th highest grossing movie in 1995. "But the audience!" is not a good argument against that movie.


    Also, the last camp Batman was technically Batman and Robin


    Batman and Robin was 12th. So not as great, but studios would still maim for numbers like that.

    Considering what it cost, coming in 12th is bad.

    Bad.

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Imagine how someone who paid full price for a ticket to see B&R felt.

    *grumbles*

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Imagine how someone who paid full price for a ticket to see B&R felt.

    *grumbles*

    Don't need to imagine.

  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    I was only about 11 when I went to see Batman and Robin. It was one of the few films I shared with my whole family and I was super embarrassed at how bad it was compared to the earlier films and that by association, they thought that those films were as bad and my enjoyment of those made me bad.

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

    Batman Forever is my favourite one of that era. Laundry-kata notwithstanding.

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

    Batman Forever is my favourite one of that era. Laundry-kata notwithstanding.

    Yeah I actually meant Batman and Robin. I tend to get the titles mixed up. There have actually been a shit ton of Batman films.

  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    Batman and Robin is the best pre-Nolan Batman film. Not when they released, but with the passage of time it has become so.

    I watched them a while back. B&R is definitely the most entertaining, the only bad point is the final 15-20 minutes where it tries to become more serious and fails. The original Burton Batman I actually quit after 35 minutes, it's aged real bad in everything except set design.

    The set design for all of them shames the modern films though. Nolan's Gotham is a bland every-city that looks like no effort was put into it at all (which, after Begins, is true).

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    I actually like how it's pretty much Just Chicago in TDK, I really like the visual direction of that. The bank scene, the truck flip, when Joker crashes the party... It felt good.

  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    Nolan movies are great but B&R actually made my jaw drop with how gorgeous and stylised the city looked, and this was only a few months ago. Consider the age and how quickly effects usually date it is damn impressive.

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

    Batman Forever is my favourite one of that era. Laundry-kata notwithstanding.

    Yeah I actually meant Batman and Robin. I tend to get the titles mixed up. There have actually been a shit ton of Batman films.

    Oh. It's okay. But much of it is pretty lame. John Glover was great. And I liked that version of Bane. At least it was closer to the 'real' one.

    But the ice hockey scene and B&R 'fighting' over Ivy was really forgettable. At least I really want it to be.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

    Batman Forever is my favourite one of that era. Laundry-kata notwithstanding.

    Yeah I actually meant Batman and Robin. I tend to get the titles mixed up. There have actually been a shit ton of Batman films.

    Oh. It's okay. But much of it is pretty lame. John Glover was great. And I liked that version of Bane. At least it was closer to the 'real' one.

    But the ice hockey scene and B&R 'fighting' over Ivy was really forgettable. At least I really want it to be.

    Looks wise he was, everything else he was more like the Hulk than Bane. I'm glad Nolan's Bane did that right.

  • McHogerMcHoger Registered User regular
    As a fan of hammy performances, Uma Thurman is pretty great in that movie.

  • cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    Astaereth wrote: »
    One thing the mainstreaming of superhero stories in cinema has done is removing the camp aspects that used to be a kind of consolation prize for LGBT audiences. Sure, they didn't get representation before, but they did get (for example) some very swishy Batmen, villains who were free to cross lines of masculinity, and an appealing heightened visual stylization. Now they still don't get representation, but all the stories are hyperserious back-and-forths about government power, every character is some kind of soldier and villains are never ever having fun. (Loki is kind of the one exception to this and he sticks out like a sore thumb.)

    For DC, this is partly just what happens when you follow up one kind of extremely heterosexual, masculine worldview (Nolan's antiseptic, asexual all-your-wives-are-dead narrative stylings) with another (Snyder's bro-centrism). But partly a matter of taking a medium that, for all its faults, has a thriving independent genre and a good deal of minority penetration and converting to a whitewashed, sanitized, de-weirded set of blockbusters where LGBT and people of color have to once again force their way back in over a long period of time.

    this is why the x-men are good

    The last time we had a truly camp Batman it was Batman Forever and the audience spoke. Can't really blame them for tacking serious with superhero offerings.

    (for my part, I liked it, but I am pretty damn near alone there)

    Batman Forever is my favourite one of that era. Laundry-kata notwithstanding.

    Yeah I actually meant Batman and Robin. I tend to get the titles mixed up. There have actually been a shit ton of Batman films.

    Oh. It's okay. But much of it is pretty lame. John Glover was great. And I liked that version of Bane. At least it was closer to the 'real' one.

    But the ice hockey scene and B&R 'fighting' over Ivy was really forgettable. At least I really want it to be.

    Looks wise he was, everything else he was more like the Hulk than Bane. I'm glad Nolan's Bane did that right.

    Nah, I'd say he was more like the "fire bad!" version of Frankenstein's Monster.

    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • TairuTairu Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    I think my favorite part of Gods & Monsters was Wonder Woman's origin story

    The whole time I yelled
    RED WEDDING
    internally

    Batman was the weakest part though. His origin wasn't nearly as strong as his counterparts.

    Tairu on
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Tairu wrote: »
    I think my favorite part of Gods & Monsters was Wonder Woman's origin story

    The whole time I yelled
    RED WEDDING
    internally

    Batman was the weakest part though. His origin wasn't nearly as strong as his counterparts.

    yeah but
    it's the first time bat man's parents weren't killed on screen since like any incarnation

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    How can we be expected to buy his motivation without a public execution?

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    That incarnation of Batman also had more personality than "broody", despite
    having a consuming thirst for human blood.
    Other than that issue, he seemed like an alright guy. Not super-happy with everything, but coping and able to have actual conversations with topics other than "MY PARENTS ARE DEEEEAD!"

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    And they didn't even press too hard with "I NEED TO FIND A CURE!" angst to replace "MY PARENTS ARE DEEEEAD!"

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