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Nioh: Onimusouls Action Available on Feb 7!

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Posts

  • l_gl_g regular Registered User regular
    A better question for Nioh is "why are there all these moves for me to put skill points into that lock me into lengthy animations while giving a dubious return on damage/utility for the time and hence risk committed and the stamina they cost".

    Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
  • DrascinDrascin regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    I do have over 400+ combined hours of Dark Souls. I know how the genre generally works.

    It's just that Dark Souls generally doesn't have you spending skill points on skills that are then basically traps. Nioh seems to give you a lot of stuff that looks super cool and then punish you for using it. And the bosses, when taken carefully, seem to largely be pretty boring. Dark Souls expects you to take things carefully and so the bosses seem designed to be fun and putting pressure on you while playing that way, while Nioh seems to expect that its players will try to blitz and thus playing it like Dark Souls results in really slow, boring, protracted fights where you are not really threatened. I think the only bosses I've actually had fun with were the Nue and the Joro-gumo. Nue especially.

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank regular Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    I do have over 400+ combined hours of Dark Souls. I know how the genre generally works.

    It's just that Dark Souls generally doesn't have you spending skill points on skills that are then basically traps. Nioh seems to give you a lot of stuff that looks super cool and then punish you for using it. And the bosses, when taken carefully, seem to largely be pretty boring. Dark Souls expects you to take things carefully and so the bosses seem designed to be fun and putting pressure on you while playing that way, while Nioh seems to expect that its players will try to blitz and thus playing it like Dark Souls results in really slow, boring, protracted fights where you are not really threatened. I think the only bosses I've actually had fun with were the Nue and the Joro-gumo. Nue especially.

    Sorry, I confused you and Synthesis, who said they bounced off the genre.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • knitdanknitdan Oh no Too much hunnyRegistered User regular
    l_g wrote: »
    A better question for Nioh is "why are there all these moves for me to put skill points into that lock me into lengthy animations while giving a dubious return on damage/utility for the time and hence risk committed and the stamina they cost".

    Because those moves aren't for damage/utility they're so you can look cool

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
    Transporter
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    Hello new players read these words carefully

    DISASSEMBLE OR SELL ALL GEAR IN NEW GAME IT DOESNT MATTER

    just use the highest level weapon or armor in your chosen fields

    You can care about it in ng+ which is way cooler and then you can bother with reforging and soul matching all you want though mostly just wait

    I'm a published writer and have a very unique and interesting writing style. I'm also sharp and witty. My profile is well-written and hilarious. My messages are likewise brilliant. And I've been doing this stuff for...four or five years. I know what "works" in terms of good internet dating writing. "Works" in the sense of leading to a "date" with a human female.

    twitch.tv/onthelastcastle
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    l_g wrote: »
    A better question for Nioh is "why are there all these moves for me to put skill points into that lock me into lengthy animations while giving a dubious return on damage/utility for the time and hence risk committed and the stamina they cost".

    I don’t mean to be harsh, but you are wrong. Do you mean sword of meditation a seemingly joke move that actually is super strong if you know the timing? I don’t use it personally because iai is better.

    The game isn’t about spamming quick attacks though you totally can if you want. You can and should do whatever you want in NG.

    If you meant the charge sheathed attack on many weapons, you need to practice. they’re the strongest moves in the game. A samurai only needs one blow. Backstep, iat strike, turn and final blow.

    I'm a published writer and have a very unique and interesting writing style. I'm also sharp and witty. My profile is well-written and hilarious. My messages are likewise brilliant. And I've been doing this stuff for...four or five years. I know what "works" in terms of good internet dating writing. "Works" in the sense of leading to a "date" with a human female.

    twitch.tv/onthelastcastle
  • OnTheLastCastleOnTheLastCastle let's keep it haimish for the peripatetic Registered User regular
    Nioh has a far higher skill cap than dark souls but is so much easier to cheese at each stage.

    I'm a published writer and have a very unique and interesting writing style. I'm also sharp and witty. My profile is well-written and hilarious. My messages are likewise brilliant. And I've been doing this stuff for...four or five years. I know what "works" in terms of good internet dating writing. "Works" in the sense of leading to a "date" with a human female.

    twitch.tv/onthelastcastle
  • l_gl_g regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    I'm still not sold on Random Slice!
    I'm sure there's some hilariously optimized build around Random Slice somewhere out there!

    l_g on
    Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
  • DrascinDrascin regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    l_g wrote: »
    A better question for Nioh is "why are there all these moves for me to put skill points into that lock me into lengthy animations while giving a dubious return on damage/utility for the time and hence risk committed and the stamina they cost".

    I don’t mean to be harsh, but you are wrong. Do you mean sword of meditation a seemingly joke move that actually is super strong if you know the timing? I don’t use it personally because iai is better.

    The game isn’t about spamming quick attacks though you totally can if you want. You can and should do whatever you want in NG.

    If you meant the charge sheathed attack on many weapons, you need to practice. they’re the strongest moves in the game. A samurai only needs one blow. Backstep, iat strike, turn and final blow.

    ...so, basically, "do whatever in the only part of the game that most people will play"?

    A lot of people are kind of not really into NG+ modes in general. Me among them, if I'm honest. I will generally much rather start a new character with a different build.

    Also, my experience is largely with spears. Where, honestly, the only special moves I've spent points in that I have gotten actual mileage out of have been the parry and the shove.

    EDIT: Yuki-onna down. Took a few attempts to learn how to dodge that grab, which nearly OHKOs me.

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
  • ViskodViskod regular Registered User regular
    I beat this, dabbled in ng+, then quit. I was kind of overwhelmed by all the options for gear and it just felt like a pain to get into.

    Where does the dlc fall in regards to difficulty? Does it assume I’ve played a lot of ng+ or does it just continue the difficulty curve from normal?

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
  • metaghostmetaghost regular Registered User regular
    I’d say the DLC expects the player to have done a fair amount of “base game Way of the Strong” and leveled up their gear. But the DLC can provide that growth, you just need to be prepared to be outclassed sometimes.

    Bandcamp (I make weird rap music) / PSN: Mugen_Kikaider
  • DrascinDrascin regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Man, I want the blueprints for that spear dude's armor - Red Demon armor. And I just spent materials to make myself a set of armor to be a little coordinated.

    That said, that duel kind of solidified my feeling that spears have extremely solid basic moves but largely meh specials. It felt like my chance of victory against the guy was directly proportional to how many specials he spammed instead of just poking with mixed mid and high stance attacks with his superior poise, while the duel against the sword dude in the previous act felt like it was down to "if he spams Iai rush I'm getting wrecked, otherwise I beat him".

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
  • descdesc the '87 stick up kids Registered User regular
    I just beat the first boss inside the ship on fire after many attempts

    I am the greatest Samurai in history

    PLAQanamilCorriganXDalantiaJohnny ChopsockyRex Dart
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    I just beat the first boss inside the ship on fire after many attempts

    I am the greatest Samurai in history

    Wait until you fight the next boss.

  • TransporterTransporter regular Registered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    Man, I want the blueprints for that spear dude's armor - Red Demon armor. And I just spent materials to make myself a set of armor to be a little coordinated.

    That said, that duel kind of solidified my feeling that spears have extremely solid basic moves but largely meh specials. It felt like my chance of victory against the guy was directly proportional to how many specials he spammed instead of just poking with mixed mid and high stance attacks with his superior poise, while the duel against the sword dude in the previous act felt like it was down to "if he spams Iai rush I'm getting wrecked, otherwise I beat him".

    Iai Rush is the Dude of the West's most vunerable move. If you have medium dodge, you can actually dodge right through it and get some nice meaty back hits.

    Also Spear specials are pretty decent. The Mid/Low stance extender is nice damage when you have an open window, and the High Y combo ender is broken straight to hell on human enemies(Including some bosses). It knocks down, which you can follow with a final blow to the back, and then while you're getting up, an X to a Y pancakes them again, allowing you to final blow again, allowing you to X to Y again. If/when you score a knockdown on a human type enemy that plays by the same rules as yourself, the fight is essentially over.

    It's pretty great.

  • DrascinDrascin regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    Interesting, because my experience is that dodging through the Iai slash with maximum dodge (I have spent the entire game in basically no armor) gets you instakilled, and trying to use the multistab high stance combo ender with a lance is basically a "murder me please" sign. Heck, I love when the Red Demon dude does it. It's free hits.

    Drascin on
    Steam ID: Right here.
  • descdesc the '87 stick up kids Registered User regular
    desc wrote: »
    I just beat the first boss inside the ship on fire after many attempts

    I am the greatest Samurai in history

    Wait until you fight the next boss.

    umbrella-chan pls

  • DacDac regular Registered User regular
    The second boss was The Wall for me on Nioh.

    Did they ever nerf sloth talismans against bosses? I remember that being, like, a free win.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • DashuiDashui regular Registered User regular
    edited November 2017
    I've played the game almost entirely in co-op so far. No regrets. It kind of becomes a Diablo loot-hunt experience that you can kind of zone out to and have a lot of fun, and I love that it let's you do that pretty much unrestricted through the Torii Gate with friends. So if anyone wants to co-op on PC, I'm totally down.

    Dashui on
    Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
  • metaghostmetaghost regular Registered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    The second boss was The Wall for me on Nioh.

    Did they ever nerf sloth talismans against bosses? I remember that being, like, a free win.

    They nerfed pretty much all of Omnyo.

    Bandcamp (I make weird rap music) / PSN: Mugen_Kikaider
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    metaghost wrote: »
    Dac wrote: »
    The second boss was The Wall for me on Nioh.

    Did they ever nerf sloth talismans against bosses? I remember that being, like, a free win.

    They nerfed pretty much all of Omnyo.

    However sloth is still definitely worth the investment. It makes the game easier, just not necessarily easy.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
  • IblisIblis regular Registered User regular
    Tried this out. Not sure if I feel this game at all though, made it to the boss on the boat, and it feels like I'm just gently tickling him while he can two shot me?

    PJtsz6X.png
    Steam Account, 3DS FC: 5129-1652-5160, Origin ID: DamusWolf
  • DalantiaDalantia regular Registered User regular
    I finally beat the boat boss by sticking to a two strikes and get out pattern. Just had to learn his motions and how to get out of the way.

    steam_sig.png
    DS Friend code: 3840-6605-3406
  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII regular Registered User regular
    I’m playing this again since I bought the season pass after the first DLC, but I know a lot of stuff has changed in the interim.

    Can anyone recommend a good updated single sword build? I understand a lot of the Back attack stuff got nerfed, and the old Haze standby is a lot weaker than it used to be.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    edited April 2018
    Dalantia wrote: »
    I finally beat the boat boss by sticking to a two strikes and get out pattern. Just had to learn his motions and how to get out of the way.

    Rented Nioh from Gamefly on a lark. I just killed this assbite. Died so many times until I figured something out that it stupidly took me dozens of times to realize:
    KICKS. DO. WORK.

    Seriously, they do so much fucking work in draining its ki and getting the first boss into his stagger. I didn't think that kicking a demon in the dick would actually work, but goddammit punishing that demon dick with my samurai boot was super effective.

    Johnny Chopsocky on
    ygPIJ.gif
    Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
  • DacDac regular Registered User regular
    patched this and updated. Played for the first time in a year to check out all the cool shit that's been added.

    ihave.jpg

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
    BeezelEtiowsa
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    patched this and updated. Played for the first time in a year to check out all the cool shit that's been added.

    ihave.jpg

    I came into the game late and until you hit the end game there is not really any difference I could notice. The DLC seems cool but until I can get the whole thing for 10 I am not interested. I did have a lot of fun getting the platinum though.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
  • DacDac regular Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm in the postgame.

    Apparently there's a Bloody Palace mode now. I went in an instantly died because I wasn't used to the controls yet.

    I'm currently working on grinding out some Glory at the Way of the Strong's 'Finders, Keepers' mission and getting back into the feel of it. I use an unarmed build, and I hear there's a new set for that in the Abyss, so I wanna go get it.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • DacDac regular Registered User regular
    I guess you still can't use Living Weapon with your hands, eh? Darn. Like I wouldn't even need to swing it, I'd just want to be able to use the triangle+circle special ability.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • azith28azith28 regular Registered User regular
    so I beat the game back when it first came out, just got a ps4 pro, so i wanted to see how the 4k upgrade would make nioh look. Decided to pick up the DLC's i had not played yet.

    I got all the way to the end of the first DLC area...and promptly got my ass kicked...like I'm getting one hit killed by that boss.

    Guess I need to level up. is there a good soul farming spot?

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    l_g wrote: »
    I'm still not sold on Random Slice!
    I'm sure there's some hilariously optimized build around Random Slice somewhere out there!

    Random slice was my most useful move all game.

    It was just so damn awesome.

    desc wrote: »
    ~ * ~ Week-Long Dance-a-thon Booty Ribbon ~ * ~
  • QanamilQanamil irregular Registered User regular
    Nioh complete edition is 40% off on Steam now.

    Steam/PSN ID: FauxRomano | JBYC Podcast, recorded live and messy Mondays at 9EST
  • QanamilQanamil irregular Registered User regular
    Doublepost: picked this up and it's difficult getting used to after soulsbournes. Managed to figure out that there aren't really I-frames and then take out the the ogres and ship boss eventually though.

    Steam/PSN ID: FauxRomano | JBYC Podcast, recorded live and messy Mondays at 9EST
  • azith28azith28 regular Registered User regular
    Yeah its definately got a slightly different feel of combat compared to DS, but that just makes it different enough to love them both.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • ElendilElendil regular Registered User regular
    there are i-frames, just not precisely what you'd be used to in souls games. they're pretty obvious when you're dash stepping in low stance.

    quick google about specifics suggests:

    high and mid-stance do have i-frames, but the shorter evade and longer animation means you're more liable to get caught out of i-frames.

    they're in the middle of the evade. souls puts the i-frames at the front end of the dodge.

  • l_gl_g regular Registered User regular
    The most not-obvious thing about Nioh coming from Souls is that blocking is REALLY GOOD.

    If you block something successfully, you take zero damage. This is not generally true in Souls, even with a shield equipped, and Nioh has no shields for you to equip, so you can guess how odd that feels to a Souls veteran. You can block all kinds of things that coming from Souls would seem like BAD IDEAS to try blocking, namely things that look like spells. Some things you just can't block, and there's no real way to find out except to try it, but blocking makes a lot of fights WAY easier. Now, the cost of your stamina emptying out due to blocking is much greater in Nioh compared to souls, since it exposes you to grapples which are often fatal, but blocking is a very strong option that should not be discounted.

    If people thought that Bloodborne was dodge-spammy, Nioh is far beyond that. You totally want the weapon ability that lets you Ki charge with dodge, it's just too convenient to not put points into. Low stance reduces the stamina cost of dodges and lets you chain them, so you can make distance or close distance with them easily. Because of the Ki charge system, it's relatively easy to always have enough stamina to do a dodge after a regular sequence of attacks, especially with the Ki charge from dodge. Dodges are "weaker" in terms of invulnerability compared to Souls, and as Elendil said, since the invulnerability doesn't kick in right away, the mentality of dodging is often reversed compared to Souls: Souls encourages you to dodge into the attack, Nioh feels like it encourages you to dodge away from the attack.

    In conclusion, kicking skeletons so that their stamina bottoms out instantly so that you can grapple stab them is the best and you should do it all the time.

    Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
    Dyvim TvarCantidoElendilfurlionAndy Joe
  • QanamilQanamil irregular Registered User regular
    Definitely picked up kick and dodge ki pulse right away yeah. I def need to use low stance a lot more (at all)

    Steam/PSN ID: FauxRomano | JBYC Podcast, recorded live and messy Mondays at 9EST
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    It took me a long time, maybe 30 hours, before I realized how useful blocking is. As a huge souls player it is ironic that a series noted for pushing players out of the norm managed to instill a habit that hit me in the ass.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
    Qanamil
  • QanamilQanamil irregular Registered User regular
    The second area and the surrounding sidequests was much easier. Now I'm playing with the parry mechanic, but it seems very exacting. I try to pull a couple of revenants in each level too since they can be really challenging and helping me remember the proper play.

    Switching stances is def my weakest front. It just feels unintuitive still. I can definitely see how they've set it up with things like flux to be a good thing to get down though.

    Steam/PSN ID: FauxRomano | JBYC Podcast, recorded live and messy Mondays at 9EST
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Qanamil wrote: »
    The second area and the surrounding sidequests was much easier. Now I'm playing with the parry mechanic, but it seems very exacting. I try to pull a couple of revenants in each level too since they can be really challenging and helping me remember the proper play.

    Switching stances is def my weakest front. It just feels unintuitive still. I can definitely see how they've set it up with things like flux to be a good thing to get down though.

    I finished every mission in the game, plus some of the optional extra hard missions added as DLC and maybe switched stances mid combat a dozen times. It is definitely a beneficial skill to master but not so helpful that I really missed it.

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
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