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[Wrestling] It's not the end of TNA, but you can see it from here...

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Posts

  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    that's truly sad news about cody. I do not think he was ever given much of a chance. one of my first memories from when I was coming back to watching was seeing him lose in a handicap match against orton with dibiase iirc.

    he made the most of what he was given every step of the way but I don't think he ever had a real shot. I admit I don't recall much of his title runs but tbh there are a lot of title runs for a long time that you could argue really hard over whether they were opportunities at all given where the belts were/are.

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  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    Seth just posted 'Good luck Roman...' on Facebook. Hmm...

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  • NiryaNirya Registered User regular
    Pony wrote: »
    So a buddy of mine doesn't watch wrestling at all and never has but me and the rest of his social circle are into it so he's trying.

    And he's asking me stuff and one of the things that came up was the concept of a finisher.

    I didn't do a fantastic job of explaining it because the truth is... I think finishers are stupid?

    Like, as a concept.

    I think it's cool that wrestlers have signature moves and big spots they pull of that are kinda unique to them. And when these moves are presented as particularly devastating, it follows that they win matches with them.

    But like, from a match pacing perspective I've always felt it actually hurts the show. It means that no matter how awesome a move is, if it's not their designated finisher (or one of their finishers, some wrestlers have a couple) that pin is always going to be a 2 count, that submission hold is always going to be broken out of.

    John Cena doesn't win with the STF. Sami Zayn doesn't win with the Blue Thunder Bomb. Randy Orton never wins with that "vintage Orton" rope DDT thing. Even though the crowd pops for these moves, they don't win matches.

    No, matches only end in one of these ways:
    1. The winner hits (one of) their finishers
    2. A roll-up/schoolboy/small package, either clean and presented as shocking or as a part of...
    3. Some shenanigans, like interference, low blows, chairshots, etc.
    4. DQ
    5. Countout, which almost never happens in modern wrestling.

    It's not just that Sami Zayn doesn't win with the Blue Thunder Bomb, it's that the only "out of nowhere" pinfall victory that wrestling puts out is the roll-up. Sami Zayn will never win just like, a wicked DDT that he does, even though it makes perfect sense he should sometimes.

    I'm not saying guys should just win in 45 seconds with a random brainbuster or powerslam. Of course that's going to be a 2 count, match pacing is a real thing.

    But when the match builds towards its natural climax, if it is going to be a clean finish then it has to be someone hitting their finisher. After a 25 minute burner Finn Balor isn't going to win with a Pele Kick, even though he goes for the pin on it every time. Nope, it's going to be a Coup de Grace or not at all.

    It makes other near-falls pointless, and it also means the only way to get the crowd to really get into a near-falls and really give a shit is have someone kick out/break free/rope break a finisher, which for some actually kinda diminishes the move and how seriously they take it.

    Which brings me to the other problem of the fact that a lot of finishers are fucking stupid and awful. Some of them are poorly designed in that they should, by Wrestling Logic, hurt the person doing the move as much if not more than the person receiving it (Baron Corbin's End of Days, where he basically Rock Bottoms himself). Some are good moves, but the guy doing them makes the move look kinda tame and not really as devastating as it is made out to be just because it's their finisher (Dean Ambrose's Dirty Deeds, which like all of Dean's offence looks gentle and hesitant). Some are just regular-ass moves for everyone else, but because this guy is doing it, now it is S scaling and fucks dudes up (basically anyone who uses an unmodified DDT or superkick as their finisher, especially if they give it a name). The worst are finishers that are so elementary in nature that there's no good reason it should be treated like a finisher at all (Wade Barrett's Bullhammer, which is just him punching a dude in the head).

    The whole thing is this dumb wrestling thing that some fans expect and as a result promoters cater to and reinforce.

    I wish it'd change but I know it won't.

    In wrestling, finishers have the internal logic of being a wrestler's deadliest move. By that I mean it is the move that the wrestler has practiced and perfected to the point where he or she should be considered the master of that move. To give an example, yes a lot of wrestlers use a superkick, but Shawn Michaels perfected it so that his kick hits at such a precise target that it can guarantee victory.

    Now, internal wrestling logic dictates that matches usually end with a finisher of some kind, which makes sense under the idea that wrestling is essentially a storytelling medium, and people usually feel jilted if the story doesn't have an ending that makes sense under the storytelling constraints being used. But to take that further, going for pins on non-finishing moves helps tell the story of how tough each competitor is, among other factors (one of my favorites is late in matches when a guy hits a big move but doesn't get a pin, the announcer might say the match is so grueling that he wasn't able to hit the move perfectly/too tired to make a good pin attempt).

    Signature moves also fall under wrestling storytelling because they give the audience visual signifiers in much the same way most fiction does. For wrestling, it's specifically cues to cheer or boo, and how a wrestler utilizes their signature move in a match can change how the story is presented. Just to take Orton's rope-assisted DDT as an example, sometimes he'll take his time setting up and motioning to the crowd, and people then visually know that he's in control of the match. But there are other times when he won't showboat and hits the move rather quickly, which might set up Orton getting back into a match, or telling the audience how seriously he's taking his opponent.

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  • Dyvim TvarDyvim Tvar Registered User regular
    Joey Ryan in DDT continues to escalate.
    No one screen capture has ever made me want to see a wrestling match more.
    13237808_1428271957186636_8142078768323466060_n.jpg?oh=e6665a43128dc54854aec0cfe291a8d6&oe=57D5542D

    Everyone is different. Everyone is special.
  • Ms DapperMs Dapper Yuri Librarian Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Me being a kill joy under spoilers.
    Man, I like some of DDT but I really wish they didn't go to the "they're acting gay" joke well so often. Eventually it just starts feeling homophobic. Like some real early TNA shit.

    Ms Dapper on
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  • Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    The Joey Ryan bit jumped the shark already. Back when they had chained it with like 5 or 6 people.

  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Has anyone ever had a name like Warren Wesley Foxx just so they can use the WWF initials?

  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin

    I don't think I have enough context for this

  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    In chikara kayfabe Chuck Taylor lost the rights to his name and has been changing it intemittently since

    Most recently it was Trent Barretta

  • crwthcrwth THAT'S IT Registered User regular
    Ms Dapper wrote: »

    haha man it's weird to see people here posing tweets about my home town

    also i was at that chilis the other week!

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  • Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    The Geek wrote: »
    Working on editing sound effects and music for my entrance theme.

    I had considered using this:
    https://youtu.be/5MH-v-jOi8Q

    But am going with something else.

    Whoa that track sounds made for wrestling

  • Dex DynamoDex Dynamo Registered User regular
    In chikara kayfabe Chuck Taylor lost the rights to his name and has been changing it intemittently since

    Most recently it was Trent Barretta

    There's also a new Chuck Taylor(TM), who bought the rights to the Chuck Taylor name and moveset on the cheap when Chuck retired at the start of the year

    RosterCTTM.jpg

  • STATE OF THE ART ROBOTSTATE OF THE ART ROBOT Registered User regular
    Wrestling is weird

  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    Cody's just a guy who needs a few years away to build himself back up on the indies/in Japan. I'm pretty sure he'll be back eventually.

    He should go to New Japan and team with Cody Hall. Just because it'd be awesome to have two second generation wrestlers named Cody on the same team.

    They could call themselves "Co-Op."

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  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    New thread title?

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    Pick-ems!
    WWE Champion Roman Reigns vs. A.J. Styles - Extreme Rules Match
    Winner of Match [11] - Roman Reigns
    Who interferes with this match? * 3 Points per correct, but -3 for wrong answers. You cannot go negative. Also, there's a fill in the blank! - Gallows or Anderson

    Intercontinental Champion The Miz vs. Cesaro vs. Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn - Fatal Fourway Match
    Winner of Match - Sami
    Who loses the fall? - Miz

    Dean Ambrose vs. Chris Jericho - Asylum Match! No Escape victory.
    Winner of Match [6] - Jericho
    Name a weapon that was hanging above the cage on Raw that's NOT used during the match. [2] - Nunchucks

    WWE Tag Team Champions The New Day vs. The Vaudevillians
    Winning Team [7] - New Day
    Winning Member [3] - Big E
    Losing Member [2] - Gotch

    WWE Women's Champion Charlotte vs. Natalya - Submission Match. Ric Flair is barred from ringside to the point that if he even shows up, Natalya wins the title.
    Winner of Match [6] - Charlotte

    United States Champion Kalisto vs. Rusev
    Winner of Match [6] - Rusev
    Lana's Hair: Bun, Ponytail or Down? [1] - Down

    Gallows and Anderson vs. The Usos - Tornado Tag Match (any member may be in the ring at anytime)
    Winning Team [5] - Ganderson

    Title Changes
    How many Title Changes occur at Extreme Rules? [5] * - As always, this includes the pre-show and any additional matches not announced. - Two

    Short Survey
    Do you like unusual questions like the one about Lana's Hair? - Yes I do.

    (Sorry, can't think of any examples)


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    Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
  • LBD_NytetraynLBD_Nytetrayn TorontoRegistered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    New thread title?

    "It Ain't The 90s, But [Wrestling] Is Still Extreme"?

    qjWUWdm.gif1edr1cF.gifINPoYqL.png
    Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    Jericho vs Mitch 2 [Wrestling]

  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Seth just posted 'Good luck Roman...' on Facebook. Hmm...

    Eeeeeeeee!!!

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Seth just posted 'Good luck Roman...' on Facebook. Hmm...

    Eeeeeeeee!!!

    Wrestlers love nothing more than getting people hyped for a thing that isn't happening, at least not for a while. For example, see Finn Balor for basically the entirety of this year.

  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Sprout wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Seth just posted 'Good luck Roman...' on Facebook. Hmm...

    Eeeeeeeee!!!

    Wrestlers love nothing more than getting people hyped for a thing that isn't happening, at least not for a while. For example, see Finn Balor for basically the entirety of this year.

    Don't tread on my dreams

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    New thread title?

    "It Ain't The 90s, But [Wrestling] Is Still Extreme"?

    "It Was Acceptable In The [Wrestling]"?

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  • SproutSprout Registered User regular
    A Return to the [Wrestling Thread] of a Bygone Era

  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Ashes to Ashes, Stardust to Dust

  • Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    Ashes to Ashes, Stardust to Dust

  • Zen VulgarityZen Vulgarity What a lovely day for tea Secret British ThreadRegistered User regular
    QJTMRco.jpg

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    Ashes to Ashes, Stardust to Dust

    Face vs Heel, the memory remains?

    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • CuvisTheConquerorCuvisTheConqueror They always say "yee haw" but they never ask "haw yee?" Registered User regular
    Mike Johnson is saying Seth Rollins is due to return soon. Very soon.
    Possibly tonight.

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  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    SIERRA

    HOTEL

    ECHO

  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    What kinda amateur hour is this

  • The BetgirlThe Betgirl I'm Molly! Registered User regular
    She

    Steam PSN: YerFriendMolly
    ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Xehalus wrote: »
    SIERRA

    HOTEL

    ECHO
    You fucked up, buddy

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  • XehalusXehalus Registered User regular
    have you been to the Sierra Hotel in India?

  • CuvisTheConquerorCuvisTheConqueror They always say "yee haw" but they never ask "haw yee?" Registered User regular
    Xehalus wrote: »
    have you been to the Sierra Hotel in India?

    At the Echo Lima Delta? I know the place.

    xderwsaxganu.png
  • Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    Believe in the SHE

  • SchideSchide Yeoh! Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
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    That's missing the best one :(

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    Schide on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Allegedly Sasha has a concussion which is why she's been off TV as of late.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • Goose!Goose! That's me, honey Show me the way home, honeyRegistered User regular
    Allegedly is a weird fucking word to use with that news.

  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    Rollins coming back is kind of a natural progression, can't ring much more out of AJ v Roman, they will probably take it to MITB and bring Finn up since it should be after Takeover, then it goes to Rollins/Reigns at Summerslam.

This discussion has been closed.