I watched it last night. Massively more enjoyable than BvS but has almost exactly the same problems. Also I felt they sorta watered down the whole point of the original story. Bit disappointed
The original story was nonsensical, dumb, and made everyone act out of character to serve the story that Millar wanted to tell. The reason it began was dumb, he turned Reed and Tony into mustache twirling villains, and the resolution was so heavy handed and silly that it broke what was already a flimsy story.
This movie could do almost anything and it would be better than what we got in the comics.
Oh I agree the comic was stupid, however it doesn't automatically make this version any better for it. As others have pointed out:
Nothing is resolved in the end. It might as well have been a 2 hour sparring match
the more i think about it the more I'm furious with Tony.
He isn't cut out for the job.
He can't cope with the failure and the guilt.
He wants absolution. He wants his dad to tell him he did ok.
But he'll never get that. And he's too narcissistic to turn himself in to be put into a warcrimes trial.
And he's making this everyone else's problem.
I think I was slightly underwhelmed by the final conflict turning out to be that small-scale, but considering how nicely it tied up several arcs, I like it more as I think about it. Definitely need to see it again.
Zemo was the big surprise for me I think. It's a really basic motivation he has, but the immediacy and simplicity made it a bit easier to explain why he would go to so much trouble. I was actually quite impressed by him, and how his arc tied up T'challa's story as well. Daniel Bruhl sells the raw pain of the character well.
I still think Winter Soldier was better, but this was pretty thought-provoking, so I can deal.
It's pretty obvious that the movie itself thought Cap was on the correct side of the issue (and I agree). But I still think it did a good job of showing Tony's point of view. His agreement with the accords was logical, even though I was on Team Cap the entire time. The fact that both sides' arguments made sense and could be seen as valid really helped me appreciate the ideological fight. If one side was fighting for something utterly stupid, the conflict wouldn't have been as fun to watch. I'm glad that, even though the movie was obviously about Cap being right in the end, they were able to draw each side as having a legitimate point.
The scenes with Spider-Man were great. Tom Holland seems like he's going to play the character very well and I'm excited for his solo movie. Same with Black Panther. The movie did a great job introducing them and characterizing them.
PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
I think I was slightly underwhelmed by the final conflict turning out to be that small-scale, but considering how nicely it tied up several arcs, I like it more as I think about it. Definitely need to see it again.
Zemo was the big surprise for me I think. It's a really basic motivation he has, but the immediacy and simplicity made it a bit easier to explain why he would go to so much trouble. I was actually quite impressed by him, and how his arc tied up T'challa's story as well. Daniel Bruhl sells the raw pain of the character well.
I still think Winter Soldier was better, but this was pretty thought-provoking, so I can deal.
I agree about Zemo and it made a world of Zemo and Lex had very similar convoluted plans in place, the big difference though is that Zemo has a real drive for his actions that sums it up towards the end of the movie how
He didn't care about the soldier program to the point of killing them all and had genuine regret for the bombings
Whereas Lex went from weird fetish pretending to be intelligent in thought to full on goofy.
It's all these small but important differences that shows such a gulf of difference in quality between the two movies and while I still stand that both films have very similar problems, these things have made all the difference.
Interview with one of the guys who makes a lot of the costumes for these (and other) movies, including the Black Panther helm https://youtu.be/EBi_TqieaQ4
I really liked the movie. But what I didn't understand was ...
Why did German GSG9 (basically our SWAT or police special forces) show up in Bucharest? Then they suddenly moved to Berlin. The airport fight was in Leipzig - which is like a 100 miles south of Berlin. That was all really inconsistent.
Other than that it was a great movie. Not the best Marvel movie of all time, but great nonetheless.
I really liked the movie. But what I didn't understand was ...
Why did German GSG9 (basically our SWAT or police special forces) show up in Bucharest? Then they suddenly moved to Berlin. The airport fight was in Leipzig - which is like a 100 miles south of Berlin. That was all really inconsistent.
Other than that it was a great movie. Not the best Marvel movie of all time, but great nonetheless.
The new Berlin airport just wasn't finished in time and shutting down Leipzig, for the duration of the shoot, was probably easier then old one in Berlin.
Since no one wants to go to Leipzig anyway.
For anyone outside Germany a new airport is being build in Berlin and it's been a total shit-show with year long delays.
The movie surpassed my expectations, which were through the roff to begin with. Wow. So much to like, I may need to see it again just to identify the flaws. This was more like an Avengers movie rather a Cap movie, and the Russo's proven themselves worthy successors to Whedon in that regard. In fact, I'd say they did better Avengers movies than he did - which is amazing. Infinity Wars is in safe hands. Spider-man and Black Panther were incredible additions. This is what Batman vs Superman wanted to be.
Zemo felt like a waste, they didn't need to call him Zemo though he was an interesting villain I want to see again. I really liked how fleshed out he was, especially at the end when he was with BP. One of Marvel's top villains with the screen time he had. That said, they didn't need him for this movie, should have kept Iron Man as the antagonist.
MCU Spider-man is amazing. Everything I wanted and more. Set up Black Panther well too.
Despite having an enormous cast I never felt anyone was getting short changed, or reduced to a cameo. I will say the one thing the film missed was Helen Cho, but really - the movie had enough people as it is. They need to get her rotating to other franchises asap, and I wouldn't mind guest stints on AoS.
edit: This felt like Marvel's third Empire Strikes Back movie, the others were Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron.
I really liked the movie. But what I didn't understand was ...
Why did German GSG9 (basically our SWAT or police special forces) show up in Bucharest? Then they suddenly moved to Berlin. The airport fight was in Leipzig - which is like a 100 miles south of Berlin. That was all really inconsistent.
Other than that it was a great movie. Not the best Marvel movie of all time, but great nonetheless.
Different to the normal german police special forces, the SEK, GSG9 are a specialised anti-terror unit on the federal level which allows it to be used anywhere in Gemany and in foreign nations (as long as that nation is ok with it) So them getting used makes sense.
I liked it, made it feel like a spy/thriller film. Added to the sense of the international character of the accords/gravity of events and whatnot.
Am I right in thinking this film had no title at the start? After a couple of sequences I was like ... and now we get the intro/title ... no? I guess not?
Major ending spoiler:
Did anyone not realise that the crashed car from 1991 was the one with Stark's parents? Was waiting for that shoe to drop for ageeesss but there were a couple of gasps in the cinema I was in when that was revealed.
I didn't get it until they explicitly said it!
Anyway, just got back from seeing this. It had a couple of issues (and I honestly don't know if I'll end up liking it more or less if I think about it some more and watch it a second time) but overall it was really good. Definitely better than Age of Ultron.
What drags it down a bit is pretty much what I expected beforehand - way too many characters crammed into one movie, leaving some of them somewhat underdeveloped.
That said, I was totally fine with the two new characters they added in this movie. I basically loved everything about Spiderman and Black Panther and I can't wait for their solo outings.
Casting Martin Freeman as that one guy who has like 5 lines and no depth whatsoever though..what a waste. You could've done so much more with a brilliant actor like him.
I loved pretty much everything about the ending. They could've easily gone with the finale being a fight against the other super soldiers, or maybe against Daniel Brühl after he absorbed their powers or whatever, but I'm glad they didn't go down that route. I liked that the conflict wasn't neatly resolved with everyone being happy and healthy (though I kinda expected Rhodes to die), it should make the next couple of movies interesting. Like, can Spiderman operate in the open now? Is the whole "acting under UN oversight" thing still going to happen?
I'm kinda surprised they didn't tease or set up the Infinity War storyline at all.
Also, what was the second stinger with Spiderman all about, exactly? Does his projector thingy have some kind of significance?
Re Spiderman
The accords in this movie do not seem to be the same as the superhero registration act from the comics. The deal doesent seem to be about all supes turning over secret identities, its about the UN having to give the go ahead before the Avengers launch a mission in wherever. So presumably spiderman isnt covered by them unless he becomes an official Avenger.
Just saw it, brilliant film. I rarely geek out but I freaked when
Ant Man turned into Giant Man, and I was genuinely shocked that the 1991 Winter Soldier target turned out to be Stark's parents, making the division real, far more real than the Accords, and it makes Helmut's plan (while less stylish than a guy in a mask with a sword), the most effective plan really so far. Loki ended up creating the Avengers, Helmut managed to end them.
What I didn't like was the hoop jumping to make the Libor thing Wanda's fault, and the Vision in general being a huge tool and far more destructive than any of the Avengers. He is pro-Accord and fucking lasers an airport in half just to create an obstruction. He is the biggest liability they have. I don't care about War Machine at all, he's a crap Iron Man knock off at the best of times, the actor has zero presence to elevate it.
Love Cap, love Winter Soldier, Spider-Man was fun. Sad Hulk didn't turn up.
Brilliant, brilliant film, the team behind it and Winter Soldier are so far beyond what DC is doing and Whedon's AoU, and they're the perfect people to helm Infinity War.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
CW is sitting dutifully between Iron Man and The Avengers in its RT score. Literally. It's at 93%, where the other 2 are 94 and 92, respectively.
I thought this would get a bit harsher treatment on the reviews. I don't know if it's because of Bats v Supes or it's just that good...
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
TBH, I kind of felt like CW was going to be the part where the MCU starts coming apart at the seams... I'm glad I was wrong!
Some people have said that this movie "shares some of the same problems as BvS". Wow do I not agree. BvS was cold, boring, and idiotically plotted. Civil War was emotional, funny, exciting, and holds together in a lot of interesting ways. BvS' idea of "fun" was killing off a supporting character in a brutal way. Civil War had dozens of characters serving up fun in their own ways. BvS' idea of franchise building was a 5 minute time out from the movie to serve up some awful Youtube trailers. Civil War introduced new, compelling characters as a part of the story and made you interested to see more.
Finally, the strange similarity of
dead parents
was handled TREMENDOUSLY better in Civil War than in BvS. The impact of
Some people have said that this movie "shares some of the same problems as BvS". Wow do I not agree. BvS was cold, boring, and idiotically plotted. Civil War was emotional, funny, exciting, and holds together in a lot of interesting ways. BvS' idea of "fun" was killing off a supporting character in a brutal way. Civil War had dozens of characters serving up fun in their own ways. BvS' idea of franchise building was a 5 minute time out from the movie to serve up some awful Youtube trailers. Civil War introduced new, compelling characters as a part of the story and made you interested to see more.
Finally, the strange similarity of
dead parents
was handled TREMENDOUSLY better in Civil War than in BvS. The impact of
"I don't care... he killed my mom."
is a nuke compared to
"WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?!?"
I cannot wait to see Zach Snyder's reaction to this movie, the salt will be real.
Civil War shares two problems with BvS, the overly complex villain plan, and the main conflict being pretty much sidelined. However, BvS had lots of other problems that makes it way worse.
Civil War shares two problems with BvS, the overly complex villain plan, and the main conflict being pretty much sidelined. However, BvS had lots of other problems that makes it way worse.
I've heard that Zemo's plan was too much before, care to discuss which part was too much exactly? Maybe I'm just not thinking about it hard enough. Regarding the second part, I'm not sure which part is the "main" conflict? Tony and Steve basically take on the opposite arguments and Bucky is the football they kick back and forth. That never changes.
I don't see what was so overly complicated about it.
It was just to simply sabotage The Avengers so they tear their selves apart and lose the faith of the public.
It was certainly less convoluted than
Lex's, and didn't require characters to lose IQ points to make sure something happened right. Lex's plan would never have worked so cleanly in the MCU, because they are not written like idiots.
Civil War shares two problems with BvS, the overly complex villain plan, and the main conflict being pretty much sidelined. However, BvS had lots of other problems that makes it way worse.
I've heard that Zemo's plan was too much before, care to discuss which part was too much exactly? Maybe I'm just not thinking about it hard enough. Regarding the second part, I'm not sure which part is the "main" conflict? Tony and Steve basically take on the opposite arguments and Bucky is the football they kick back and forth. That never changes.
The plan depended on a lot of coincidences and events to happen in very specific ways.
Zemo framed Bucky for the UN bombing somehow knowing that Bucky would be captured in Bucharest and taken to the UN base in Berlin. Since he had already replaced the UN psychiatrist who was supposed to question Bucky and he had the EMP bomb before Bucky was even found. Then he somehow knew that he would be able to get the information about the Winter Soldier base from Bucky and that Bucky would be able to escape the base and get captured by Captain America. Since it was Bucky who told Cap about the Winter Soldier facility. And he somehow also knew that Tony Stark would be able to learn the location of the Winter Soldier base.
As for the main conflict, the question of whether or not there should be some kind of government oversight is dropped at the end. That no longer mattered since it was just about Tony wanting to kill Bucky for murdering his parents. The conflict was no longer about whether how the Avengers should be held accountable. It was about revenge. In the end, Tony wasn't even really on the UN's side since he found out that Ross was treating the Avengers like super villains.
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WearingglassesOf the friendly neighborhood varietyRegistered Userregular
Civil War shares two problems with BvS, the overly complex villain plan, and the main conflict being pretty much sidelined. However, BvS had lots of other problems that makes it way worse.
I've heard that Zemo's plan was too much before, care to discuss which part was too much exactly? Maybe I'm just not thinking about it hard enough. Regarding the second part, I'm not sure which part is the "main" conflict? Tony and Steve basically take on the opposite arguments and Bucky is the football they kick back and forth. That never changes.
The plan depended on a lot of coincidences and events to happen in very specific ways.
Zemo framed Bucky for the UN bombing somehow knowing that Bucky would be captured in Bucharest and taken to the UN base in Berlin. Since he had already replaced the UN psychiatrist who was supposed to question Bucky and he had the EMP bomb before Bucky was even found. Then he somehow knew that he would be able to get the information about the Winter Soldier base from Bucky and that Bucky would be able to escape the base and get captured by Captain America. Since it was Bucky who told Cap about the Winter Soldier facility. And he somehow also knew that Tony Stark would be able to learn the location of the Winter Soldier base.
As for the main conflict, the question of whether or not there should be some kind of government oversight is dropped at the end. That no longer mattered since it was just about Tony wanting to kill Bucky for murdering his parents. The conflict was no longer about whether how the Avengers should be held accountable. It was about revenge. In the end, Tony wasn't even really on the UN's side since he found out that Ross was treating the Avengers like super villains.
I was thinking about that bolded part, and I thought that Bucky's failed attempt at escape was actually not part of the plan - his face was that of surprise when he was listening to the report after the Berling blowup. So his probable Plan A was Bucky is to escape to Siberia, and Tony and Cap would tail him there. I've always thought that the Dec 16, 1991 video was his capstone to his master plan (Bucky misinterpreting Zemo's intention to be the drugs, and not the hit), but I can't quite get the timings of events to fit for "Plan A".
Zemo's plan would really work in the end. Wouldn't people go back to Tony's side once they learn that Bucky brutally murdered his parents? How many people actually know about Bucky or the fact that he's a Hydra assassin who's killed a lot of important people through the decades.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Best part of the new Spiderman was talking about his origin.
Or how they didn't. How did you get the powers? It's a long story. Okay, never mind, lets talk about how hot your aunt is.
Brought up the origin but dismissed it since everyone on the fucking planet knows already. Plus the exchange felt exactly how Stark would handle it. Don't really give a shit, but man your aunt is attractive.
I really hope they just run with that in Homecoming and get right into telling a good Spiderman story.
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WearingglassesOf the friendly neighborhood varietyRegistered Userregular
Best part of the new Spiderman was talking about his origin.
Or how they didn't. How did you get the powers? It's a long story. Okay, never mind, lets talk about how hot your aunt is.
Brought up the origin but dismissed it since everyone on the fucking planet knows already. Plus the exchange felt exactly how Stark would handle it. Don't really give a shit, but man your aunt is attractive.
I really hope they just run with that in Homecoming and get right into telling a good Spiderman story.
I like how he paraphrased the Spider-phrase. He won't be eloquent in a snap, but it gets the point across.
Best part of the new Spiderman was talking about his origin.
Or how they didn't. How did you get the powers? It's a long story. Okay, never mind, lets talk about how hot your aunt is.
Brought up the origin but dismissed it since everyone on the fucking planet knows already. Plus the exchange felt exactly how Stark would handle it. Don't really give a shit, but man your aunt is attractive.
I really hope they just run with that in Homecoming and get right into telling a good Spiderman story.
This.
You can talk about Uncle Ben. But for the love of God, we don't need to see it again for the 3rd time in 15 years. We get it. We all get it.
No more origin stories for Spider-Man. I assume that Homecoming is going to be set after Civil War. And there's no good reason for it not to be.
PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
Best part of the new Spiderman was talking about his origin.
Or how they didn't. How did you get the powers? It's a long story. Okay, never mind, lets talk about how hot your aunt is.
Brought up the origin but dismissed it since everyone on the fucking planet knows already. Plus the exchange felt exactly how Stark would handle it. Don't really give a shit, but man your aunt is attractive.
I really hope they just run with that in Homecoming and get right into telling a good Spiderman story.
This.
You can talk about Uncle Ben. But for the love of God, we don't need to see it again for the 3rd time in 15 years. We get it. We all get it.
No more origin stories for Spider-Man. I assume that Homecoming is going to be set after Civil War. And there's no good reason for it not to be.
It's going to be him explaining his backstory to the team, ala IM3.
"So, it all started a long time ago...almost 3 months ago now I think...."
Best part of the new Spiderman was talking about his origin.
Or how they didn't. How did you get the powers? It's a long story. Okay, never mind, lets talk about how hot your aunt is.
Brought up the origin but dismissed it since everyone on the fucking planet knows already. Plus the exchange felt exactly how Stark would handle it. Don't really give a shit, but man your aunt is attractive.
I really hope they just run with that in Homecoming and get right into telling a good Spiderman story.
This.
You can talk about Uncle Ben. But for the love of God, we don't need to see it again for the 3rd time in 15 years. We get it. We all get it.
No more origin stories for Spider-Man. I assume that Homecoming is going to be set after Civil War. And there's no good reason for it not to be.
It's going to be him explaining his backstory to the team, ala IM3.
"So, it all started a long time ago...almost 3 months ago now I think...."
Civil War shares two problems with BvS, the overly complex villain plan, and the main conflict being pretty much sidelined. However, BvS had lots of other problems that makes it way worse.
I've heard that Zemo's plan was too much before, care to discuss which part was too much exactly? Maybe I'm just not thinking about it hard enough. Regarding the second part, I'm not sure which part is the "main" conflict? Tony and Steve basically take on the opposite arguments and Bucky is the football they kick back and forth. That never changes.
The plan depended on a lot of coincidences and events to happen in very specific ways.
Zemo framed Bucky for the UN bombing somehow knowing that Bucky would be captured in Bucharest and taken to the UN base in Berlin. Since he had already replaced the UN psychiatrist who was supposed to question Bucky and he had the EMP bomb before Bucky was even found. Then he somehow knew that he would be able to get the information about the Winter Soldier base from Bucky and that Bucky would be able to escape the base and get captured by Captain America. Since it was Bucky who told Cap about the Winter Soldier facility. And he somehow also knew that Tony Stark would be able to learn the location of the Winter Soldier base.
As for the main conflict, the question of whether or not there should be some kind of government oversight is dropped at the end. That no longer mattered since it was just about Tony wanting to kill Bucky for murdering his parents. The conflict was no longer about whether how the Avengers should be held accountable. It was about revenge. In the end, Tony wasn't even really on the UN's side since he found out that Ross was treating the Avengers like super villains.
I don't see what's so convoluted.
They have a facility in Germany that can house the Winter Soldier so that's where they take him. He knows that when he is captured their protocol must be to call in a psychiatrist and this guy is the closest or the best or whatever, there is a reason he will be summoned. He assumes he can get the information from Bucky with the codephrase but you can tell from his performance that he's not 100% until Bucky finally reacts and says he is ready to comply. He tries to fake being a victim but Cap doesn't fall for it so that plan goes out the window, but he has Winter Soldier there anyway to help him escape.
Getting Iron Man there is a bit of a stretch but even then, Zemo says he has stalked and studied them all, down to the point of noticing flecks of green in Captain Americas eyes, so its safe to assume that Iron Man will not let them go alone and will find a way to track them.
The oversight isn't dropped in the end, it's still in place, the Accords are still the law now, the conflict is about bringing in the lawbreakers which end up in the Raft. Tony doesn't know they end up there so even though he supports registration, he doesn't support Thunderdouche Ross. It's all a part of making both side right and wrong at the same time. If they were all held in a penthouse like Wanda, it wouldn't come across as bad.
I don't know, nothing during that film made me think "wait, what?", and that is a pretty damn good film IMO.
I'm a little annoyed that they didn't mention a middle ground over the Accords:
As I see it, the problem wasn't accountability, it was direct oversight.
Being held responsible for the consequences of their actions is a good thing, but not being able to act until they get permission would be disastrous, and I'm fully expecting that to be demonstrated in the future. Given that they almost certainly wouldn't have been allowed to go to Sokovia when shit went down if they'd had to get multi-national permission, the world would have been hit with an extinction-level event. Even if they'd finally relented when it became clear how bad it was, there wouldn't have been enough time to stop it.
The losses were terrible, but I'd have liked someone to point out things like what would have happened if they hadn't been there.
New York? Alien invasion, with Manhattan getting mega-nuked which may or may not have stopped it.
DC? A quarter million people were seconds away from being killed, and that was probably only the opening salvo.
With the opening here, either they didn't interfere at all and Rumlowe got away with a bioweapon, or they did go there but Wanda didn't move the explosion, so it wipes out a crowded marketplace, which would arguably be worse.
I'm betting there'll be at least one disaster that they're not allowed to respond to until it's too late, which will get public opinion back on their side, probably at some point in the Infinity War movies. And if Ross tries to send them somewhere they don't want to go ("put down this uprising against this dictator we've got an oil deal with" or something), half the remaining team will probably revolt on the spot.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Biggest issue I have is they fucking did it again.
Stop killing villains. Rumlowes fight was pretty cool. I wanted to see more of that.
They killed a Captain America henchman. No further Cap movies are on the slate, so it's unlikely he was going to be used further anyway. Maybe Agents of SHIELD could have used him, I guess.
It wasn't like his death was pointless - it fed directly into the plot and he had a great fight scene beforehand.
Living villains: Loki, Thanos, Nebula, Batroc, Justin Hammer, Abomination, Zemo.
Dead villains: Red Skull, Malkeith, Robert Redford, Yellowjacket, Ultron, Ronan, Crossbones, Whiplash, Stane, Von Strucker.
They killed a Captain America henchman. No further Cap movies are on the slate, so it's unlikely he was going to be used further anyway. Maybe Agents of SHIELD could have used him, I guess.
It wasn't like his death was pointless - it fed directly into the plot and he had a great fight scene beforehand.
Living villains: Loki, Thanos, Nebula, Batroc, Justin Hammer, Abomination, Zemo.
Dead villains: Red Skull, Malkeith, Robert Redford, Yellowjacket, Ultron, Ronan, Crossbones, Whiplash, Stane, Von Strucker.
I'd put a question mark on Red Skull, as unlike most of the other deaths "disintegration that looks mysteriously like teleporting away" could be easily retconned with minimal fuss.
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Oh I agree the comic was stupid, however it doesn't automatically make this version any better for it. As others have pointed out:
I just saw it. Was gud.
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He isn't cut out for the job.
He can't cope with the failure and the guilt.
He wants absolution. He wants his dad to tell him he did ok.
But he'll never get that. And he's too narcissistic to turn himself in to be put into a warcrimes trial.
And he's making this everyone else's problem.
Also, the thrill from that title card halfway through.
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The one that said
Zemo was the big surprise for me I think. It's a really basic motivation he has, but the immediacy and simplicity made it a bit easier to explain why he would go to so much trouble. I was actually quite impressed by him, and how his arc tied up T'challa's story as well. Daniel Bruhl sells the raw pain of the character well.
I still think Winter Soldier was better, but this was pretty thought-provoking, so I can deal.
The scenes with Spider-Man were great. Tom Holland seems like he's going to play the character very well and I'm excited for his solo movie. Same with Black Panther. The movie did a great job introducing them and characterizing them.
I agree about Zemo and it made a world of Zemo and Lex had very similar convoluted plans in place, the big difference though is that Zemo has a real drive for his actions that sums it up towards the end of the movie how
Whereas Lex went from weird fetish pretending to be intelligent in thought to full on goofy.
It's all these small but important differences that shows such a gulf of difference in quality between the two movies and while I still stand that both films have very similar problems, these things have made all the difference.
Other than that it was a great movie. Not the best Marvel movie of all time, but great nonetheless.
I certainly didn't notice them when watching the movie.
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The new Berlin airport just wasn't finished in time and shutting down Leipzig, for the duration of the shoot, was probably easier then old one in Berlin.
Since no one wants to go to Leipzig anyway.
On course to perform like an Avengers movie, not a Cap movie, which feels appropriate considering the fact that it basically is an Avengers movie.
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I am German, so thats why I noticed that stuff :biggrin: . Its no big deal, but it could have been explained better.
MCU Spider-man is amazing. Everything I wanted and more. Set up Black Panther well too.
Despite having an enormous cast I never felt anyone was getting short changed, or reduced to a cameo. I will say the one thing the film missed was Helen Cho, but really - the movie had enough people as it is. They need to get her rotating to other franchises asap, and I wouldn't mind guest stints on AoS.
edit: This felt like Marvel's third Empire Strikes Back movie, the others were Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron.
Re Spiderman
The accords in this movie do not seem to be the same as the superhero registration act from the comics. The deal doesent seem to be about all supes turning over secret identities, its about the UN having to give the go ahead before the Avengers launch a mission in wherever. So presumably spiderman isnt covered by them unless he becomes an official Avenger.
What I didn't like was the hoop jumping to make the Libor thing Wanda's fault, and the Vision in general being a huge tool and far more destructive than any of the Avengers. He is pro-Accord and fucking lasers an airport in half just to create an obstruction. He is the biggest liability they have. I don't care about War Machine at all, he's a crap Iron Man knock off at the best of times, the actor has zero presence to elevate it.
Love Cap, love Winter Soldier, Spider-Man was fun. Sad Hulk didn't turn up.
Brilliant, brilliant film, the team behind it and Winter Soldier are so far beyond what DC is doing and Whedon's AoU, and they're the perfect people to helm Infinity War.
I thought this would get a bit harsher treatment on the reviews. I don't know if it's because of Bats v Supes or it's just that good...
Finally, the strange similarity of
I cannot wait to see Zach Snyder's reaction to this movie, the salt will be real.
I've heard that Zemo's plan was too much before, care to discuss which part was too much exactly? Maybe I'm just not thinking about it hard enough. Regarding the second part, I'm not sure which part is the "main" conflict? Tony and Steve basically take on the opposite arguments and Bucky is the football they kick back and forth. That never changes.
It was certainly less convoluted than
The plan depended on a lot of coincidences and events to happen in very specific ways.
As for the main conflict, the question of whether or not there should be some kind of government oversight is dropped at the end. That no longer mattered since it was just about Tony wanting to kill Bucky for murdering his parents. The conflict was no longer about whether how the Avengers should be held accountable. It was about revenge. In the end, Tony wasn't even really on the UN's side since he found out that Ross was treating the Avengers like super villains.
Brought up the origin but dismissed it since everyone on the fucking planet knows already. Plus the exchange felt exactly how Stark would handle it. Don't really give a shit, but man your aunt is attractive.
I really hope they just run with that in Homecoming and get right into telling a good Spiderman story.
This.
No more origin stories for Spider-Man. I assume that Homecoming is going to be set after Civil War. And there's no good reason for it not to be.
It's going to be him explaining his backstory to the team, ala IM3.
"So, it all started a long time ago...almost 3 months ago now I think...."
He's actually explaining this to Batfleck.
I don't see what's so convoluted.
Getting Iron Man there is a bit of a stretch but even then, Zemo says he has stalked and studied them all, down to the point of noticing flecks of green in Captain Americas eyes, so its safe to assume that Iron Man will not let them go alone and will find a way to track them.
The oversight isn't dropped in the end, it's still in place, the Accords are still the law now, the conflict is about bringing in the lawbreakers which end up in the Raft. Tony doesn't know they end up there so even though he supports registration, he doesn't support Thunderdouche Ross. It's all a part of making both side right and wrong at the same time. If they were all held in a penthouse like Wanda, it wouldn't come across as bad.
Being held responsible for the consequences of their actions is a good thing, but not being able to act until they get permission would be disastrous, and I'm fully expecting that to be demonstrated in the future. Given that they almost certainly wouldn't have been allowed to go to Sokovia when shit went down if they'd had to get multi-national permission, the world would have been hit with an extinction-level event. Even if they'd finally relented when it became clear how bad it was, there wouldn't have been enough time to stop it.
The losses were terrible, but I'd have liked someone to point out things like what would have happened if they hadn't been there.
New York? Alien invasion, with Manhattan getting mega-nuked which may or may not have stopped it.
DC? A quarter million people were seconds away from being killed, and that was probably only the opening salvo.
With the opening here, either they didn't interfere at all and Rumlowe got away with a bioweapon, or they did go there but Wanda didn't move the explosion, so it wipes out a crowded marketplace, which would arguably be worse.
I'm betting there'll be at least one disaster that they're not allowed to respond to until it's too late, which will get public opinion back on their side, probably at some point in the Infinity War movies. And if Ross tries to send them somewhere they don't want to go ("put down this uprising against this dictator we've got an oil deal with" or something), half the remaining team will probably revolt on the spot.
It wasn't like his death was pointless - it fed directly into the plot and he had a great fight scene beforehand.
Living villains: Loki, Thanos, Nebula, Batroc, Justin Hammer, Abomination, Zemo.
Dead villains: Red Skull, Malkeith, Robert Redford, Yellowjacket, Ultron, Ronan, Crossbones, Whiplash, Stane, Von Strucker.
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