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Captain America: Civil War [OPEN SPOILERS, BEWARE!!!]

ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
edited May 2016 in Debate and/or Discourse
This thread is for discussion of that new MCU movie all the boys and girls are talking about. I think it stars Antonio Banderas and Lucy Liu or something. Also Spiderman, I guess? Whatever.

If you're lucky enough to live in one of the countries where this has already been released, then a) fuck you and your stupid early-release country *sobs*, and b) remember to use spoiler tags.

If anyone gets things accidentally spoiled by being in here, though, that's what you get for playing with fire.

Edit: OPEN SPOILERS NOW, WHEEEE, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
ElJeffe on
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Posts

  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2016
    So I haven't seen it, but having read the summary since I don't go to theaters;
    Steve seems to be the antagonist of this movie, which is a weird choice since it his title movie. His side in general kind of gets played as the hostile assholes, when looking at their actions.

    Cons against TeamSteve:
    Wanda blows up a hospital full of people, a short amount of time after having been a super villain who helped Ultron attempt to destroy the world.
    She doesn't get arrested, she doesn't get charged, they simply put her under house arrest, in a mansion with Vision taking care of her, while they work out the whole registration thing. She gets pissed, and Hawkeye helps her escape the mansion by attacking Vision and doing heavy damage to the property.

    Steve refuses to sign the act, basically saying it is ok that they accidentally killed a ton of people, they shouldn't face any repercussions or require any oversight.
    Bucky gets his assassin state triggered and goes on a rampage, proving he is still a threat. Steve still sides with keeping him free and at large, rather than taking him in for help.
    Steve makes out with his old girlfriends niece, ew.
    Steve knows about a plot to awaken multiple other winter soldiers, tells no one. Instead attempts to steal a quinjet, while fighting through TeamStark to try to stop it himself.
    Steve hits spiderman with an airplane, breaking his ribs.
    The fight ends up crippling Rhodey, as Steve and Bucky escape.
    Blackwidow switches sides (surprise?), tells Nat that Interpol is going to be after her now then lets her leave, she then threatens Tony. Because he is, for some reason, to blame for her sudden problems?
    Steve knew Bucky had BRUTALLY murdered the Stark's, and never told Tony.
    Steve beats Tony to near death.
    Steve breaks the rest of his team out of the raft, after they were captured. Because regardless of the loss of life and property damage they have caused, he still knows best?

    For Steve having been against people keeping secrets all this time, he sure does like keeping them himself. Almost like he really just wants to be the one in charge and making the decisions, rather than just being truthful.

    Cons against TeamStark:
    BP freaks out after seeing "Bucky" kill his father, tries to kill him.
    Tony freaks out after being forced to watch Bucky brutalize his parents, and being told Steve knew about it but said nothing, tries to kill Bucky.

    After all of this, they don't even cure Bucky. They just end up cryogenicly freezing him, because he admits he is too dangerous to keep walking around as he is. So all the destruction, pain, and anguish Steve has caused with this whole ordeal was for naught.

    I am kind of wondering if this is all leading into Steve actually being a Skrull, and them actually doing some form of secret invasion in the MCU. Because each movie is making him more and more aggressive towards everyone.

    Morkath on
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Summary above pretty much covers it, but not exactly. Major spoilers.
    There's basically three "conflicts" - Sokovia accords, Bucky, and Stark's parents.

    Sokovia is say Cap is pretty well in the wrong, but the above summary is rather uncharitable to them, still. Like, the Scarlet Witch thing - she blew up a corner of a hospital....by losing control of an explosion she was containing from a suicide bombing on the ground which would have killed MORE people, including Cap, which she was trying to get into the sky so she could release it.

    Bucky is more mixed bag. It's the classic 'is it really bucky's fault, and will he get the help he needs.' its a weird intersection of comic book logic on Cap 's side, vs real world logic on Stark' 's (because seriously, how often does this shit happen in comics?). That being said, when you see the profession everyone is kept in, that's also definitely a ding on Stark (not that he wanted that, but you know).

    The personal one is Stark giving in to rage/revenge, which is a theme throughout the movie, so Cap wins that one. It's pointed out explicitly when Black Panther forgoes revenge and then prevents Zemo's suicide so he can be punished by law.

    In the other thread, someone asked about the end credit stuff. Keeping vague so feel free to highlight this one.
    Mid credits involves/is setting up Black Panther, and is also acting as an epilogue to the movie, end credits is setting up Spider-Man

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    TeamLucy LuiSever

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I don't understand how Sokovia keeps being brought up as a negative against "powered people" in the various marvel properties

    it was caused by a robot that stark built, stark who has no super powers

    override367 on
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    I don't understand how Sokovia keeps being brought up as a negative against "powered people" in the various marvel properties

    it was caused by a robot that stark built, stark who has no super powers

    Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were neck deep in that until the last minute. As well as Ultron himself being built by Tony Stark and Bruce Banner, two super-heroes.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I think Stark's brain is basically considered a superpower.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
  • FakefauxFakefaux Cóiste Bodhar Driving John McCain to meet some Iraqis who'd very much like to make his acquaintanceRegistered User regular
    I don't understand how Sokovia keeps being brought up as a negative against "powered people" in the various marvel properties

    it was caused by a robot that stark built, stark who has no super powers

    Ultron, in and of himself, was a sentient, super-powered being, same as The Vision.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Outside of the context of the Marvel Universe, I think the various registration acts would be perfectly sensible. Having lethal super powers at your fingertips is probably something the state should want to regulate.


    The stupid fucking thing, though, is that we know...
    That both Apocalypse & Trask, at a minimum, will use the Goddamn registration database to hunt down & kill all of the metahumans before basically enslaving the entire Earth. And in the comics all of the superhero teams have been warned about this eventuality about a billion times over by various time traveling superheroes from Armageddon-future.

    So, count me in on the non-registration side always, because a bunch of loose cannon idiot superheroes sometimes killing busloads of children is still better than the literal end of the world & total victory for the bad guys.

    With Love and Courage
  • ÄlterÄlter Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Just saw it last night and wow. WOOOOW

    Regarding Zemo
    Given what relatively little screen time he had I felt he and the writing that went into him were really spot on for what they were going with here. There isn't a lot of redemption that can be done with him but once the whole picture was revealed I found his story to be a sympathetic one.

    It would be great if in the future there is some sort of team up of side villains from the movies that decides to bust him out and he just turns on them immediately.

    "Don't you get it? I'm against ALL you guys!"

    Hope Brühl gets mad props for this.

    Edit: I'm picky about pluralization.

    Älter on
    That's the sound of my shoes.
  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    I thought the ending was great, really felt like it was coming together there - but I will probably have to watch it again for deeper, proper consideration of themes and such.

    The conflict between friends was set up and handled as well as could be. Still, trying not to think about it too hard, because then comic book logic always falls apart somewhere... Most of the lighthearted stuff was great though! My personal highlight:

    (fight scene dialog spoiler)
    Clint and Natasha, while brawling: "We're still friends, right?"

    Also, this has my new favorite version of Spiderman.

    Excellent superhero facepunching movie all in all!

    Indie Dev Blog | Twitter | Steam
    Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.

    I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Haven't watched it, but I'm curious if it's addressed that Iron Man basically recruits a 16 year old into his super powered war.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    It's called out, but not in any way of consequence.

  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    Haven't watched it, but I'm curious if it's addressed that Iron Man basically recruits a 16 year old into his super powered war.

    To be fair, he recruits a 16yr old, who has no problems knocking the other adult heroes around.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Just got back from a midnight screening of this. I... didn't think it was very good? It wasn't bad, I just didn't enjoy it much.
    Possibly my biggest problem is that it's really starting to feel like the MCU is buckling under the strain of its own continuity; adding in more characters and twists just exacerbated that feeling. Black Panther in particular came across as kind of underdeveloped to me (almost certainly because they're saving most of his fleshing out for his own film). The action scenes also didn't really engage me, and at certain points felt very cartoon-y (e.g., that Scarlet Witch/Vision moment) - which would probably work in a superhero film that wasn't also spending a lot of time on discussions surrounding signing a UN-backed treaty.

    Stuff that I liked; Spiderman was fantastic, the central debate between Steve and Tony was mostly sensible, and I appreciated some of the lasting consequences like Rhodes actually being paralyzed in the big group fight and most of the Avengers having to go underground. Bucky getting frozen again in the epilogue felt really weird, though, like they literally decided to put his character development on ice.

    Overall, I'd maybe give it a 7/10 if I'm being generous.

  • a nu starta nu start Registered User regular
    Question: Where do I get my...
    Business Casual Vision action figure?

    Number One Tricky
  • EvermournEvermourn Registered User regular
    Just got back from it.
    A bit slow to get moving, the first hour or so I was actually bored, which was an unpleasant surprise. But once they introduced Peter Parker it finally kicked into gear. The airport super fight was fantastic, seeing Spiderman with everyone else was a joy. Ant Man killed it. Falcon and Bucky in the beetle. Great misdirect with the 5 super agents. And some real heartstrings stuff with Tony's parents and the prison break.

  • wiltingwilting I had fun once and it was awful Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Morkath wrote: »
    So I haven't seen it, but having read the summary since I don't go to theaters;
    Steve seems to be the antagonist of this movie, which is a weird choice since it his title movie. His side in general kind of gets played as the hostile assholes, when looking at their actions.

    Cons against TeamSteve:
    Wanda blows up a hospital full of people, a short amount of time after having been a super villain who helped Ultron attempt to destroy the world.
    She doesn't get arrested, she doesn't get charged, they simply put her under house arrest, in a mansion with Vision taking care of her, while they work out the whole registration thing. She gets pissed, and Hawkeye helps her escape the mansion by attacking Vision and doing heavy damage to the property.

    Steve refuses to sign the act, basically saying it is ok that they accidentally killed a ton of people, they shouldn't face any repercussions or require any oversight.
    Bucky gets his assassin state triggered and goes on a rampage, proving he is still a threat. Steve still sides with keeping him free and at large, rather than taking him in for help.
    Steve makes out with his old girlfriends niece, ew.
    Steve knows about a plot to awaken multiple other winter soldiers, tells no one. Instead attempts to steal a quinjet, while fighting through TeamStark to try to stop it himself.
    Steve hits spiderman with an airplane, breaking his ribs.
    The fight ends up crippling Rhodey, as Steve and Bucky escape.
    Blackwidow switches sides (surprise?), tells Nat that Interpol is going to be after her now then lets her leave, she then threatens Tony. Because he is, for some reason, to blame for her sudden problems?
    Steve knew Bucky had BRUTALLY murdered the Stark's, and never told Tony.
    Steve beats Tony to near death.
    Steve breaks the rest of his team out of the raft, after they were captured. Because regardless of the loss of life and property damage they have caused, he still knows best?

    For Steve having been against people keeping secrets all this time, he sure does like keeping them himself. Almost like he really just wants to be the one in charge and making the decisions, rather than just being truthful.

    Cons against TeamStark:
    BP freaks out after seeing "Bucky" kill his father, tries to kill him.
    Tony freaks out after being forced to watch Bucky brutalize his parents, and being told Steve knew about it but said nothing, tries to kill Bucky.

    After all of this, they don't even cure Bucky. They just end up cryogenicly freezing him, because he admits he is too dangerous to keep walking around as he is. So all the destruction, pain, and anguish Steve has caused with this whole ordeal was for naught.

    I am kind of wondering if this is all leading into Steve actually being a Skrull, and them actually doing some form of secret invasion in the MCU. Because each movie is making him more and more aggressive towards everyone.

    That summary is way off

    Wanda:

    - Saves Steve and a crowd of onlookers from a suicide bomb, but it gets redirected into a building
    - She's pretty shaken up by it, questioning if she is still the same person as before she got her powers, and how people see her
    - Is reluctant to leave the base and Clint has to give her another pep talk to get her to come
    - She never "helped Ultron attempt to destroy the world", she turned on him immediately upon realizing his plans. She wanted revenge on Tony, and by extension the Avengers, but realized her error.

    Speaking of revenge

    - Zemo wants revenge against all of the Avengers
    - Tony wants revenge against Bucky, a victim of brainwashing, and attempts to kill him
    - T'Challa wants revenge against Bucky, spends most of the film trying to kill him, but realizes at the end that revenge is bad, going as far as preventing Zemo from committing suicide
    - The authorities themselves seem to want revenge against Bucky and primarily attempt to kill rather than capture him (for something it turns out he didn't do)
    - Where else have we seen this 'revenge bad' theme? Agents of Shield, Daredevil

    Steve:

    - Tells Wanda that the deaths in Lagos are his fault, not hers
    - Is against the accords because he's concerned about being sent somewhere without good cause, or being prevented from going somewhere needed
    - Explicitly says that it would be giving up responsibility for consequences of own actions
    - Sharon basically explictly tells Steve not to sign the accords when she speaks at Peggy's funeral
    - Steve intervenes because 1) After the Vienna bombing, the order is to kill Bucky 2) Reasons that Bucky is less likely to hurt him than anyone else
    - Cooperates fully once Bucky is taken in alive
    - Starts leaning towards signing the accords after Bucky is brought in alive, but is upset when he finds out Tony has Wanda under house arrest
    - Realizes that the whole thing is a setup just before...
    - Bucky getting 'activated' which proves that the whole thing is a setup, Steve prevents Bucky's escape, restrains Bucky until he is sure he can trust him, at which point the priority becomes stopping Zemo
    - Sharon and Steve can make out with whoever they like(and it would be better described as a Kiss). Also, I don't think anything ever actually "happened" between Steve and Peggy? Pretty sure Peggy would be cool with it.
    - Steve tells Tony et al about Zemo and the other Winter Soldiers at the Airport. Tony just demands they surrender. Steve fights because he has to in order to stop Zemo.
    - I don't remember exactly but I don't think 'throws a plane at' is what happens between Steve and Peter. They bond a little about both being New Yorkers.
    - Rhodey's injury happens when Sam dodges a blast from Vision, Sam immediately tries to save him, but both he and Tony fail to do so
    - How do you tell friend b that friend a killed friend b's parent while brainwashed? Can't blame him for not knowing how to approach it. I'm not sure that Steve knew this for a fact, as much as he realized that it was probably the case.
    - Steve doesn't 'beat Tony to near death', he disables Tony's suit, and then leaves his shield behind with Tony when Tony says he doesn't deserve it
    - Everyone is locked up on the raft because they helped Steve, so I imagine he feels responsible

    Natasha
    - Is primarily concerned with protecting everyone/keeping everyone together
    - Which is why she sides with signing the accords and discourages Steve from getting involved with the manhunt for Bucky
    - AND why she gets pissed off at Tony for letting things get so out of hand
    - 'Switching sides' consists of stopping T'Challa from catching Steve/Bucky. T'Challa being a third party with the agenda of killing Bucky for something he didn't do

    Things that befuddled me:

    - Steve's 'we can't save everyone' lines seemed out of character (in comparison to his attitude to saving everyone in Sokovia when the entire world was at stake), BUT he was trying to comfort Wanda
    - Bucky is tracked down in Bucharest, but team that goes after him are German, and then they bring everyone to Berlin. I guess because whole thing is happening under UN authority?
    - How does Steve know where the raft is?

    wilting on
  • EvermournEvermourn Registered User regular
    I'd imagine S knows where the r is because there would be a lot of sympathy for him in the intelligence community, he'd probably just have to ask around a bit. Or BW or IM may have just told him.
    Ps I hope you can break my code.

  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    wilting wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    So I haven't seen it, but having read the summary since I don't go to theaters;
    Steve seems to be the antagonist of this movie, which is a weird choice since it his title movie. His side in general kind of gets played as the hostile assholes, when looking at their actions.

    Cons against TeamSteve:
    Wanda blows up a hospital full of people, a short amount of time after having been a super villain who helped Ultron attempt to destroy the world.
    She doesn't get arrested, she doesn't get charged, they simply put her under house arrest, in a mansion with Vision taking care of her, while they work out the whole registration thing. She gets pissed, and Hawkeye helps her escape the mansion by attacking Vision and doing heavy damage to the property.

    Steve refuses to sign the act, basically saying it is ok that they accidentally killed a ton of people, they shouldn't face any repercussions or require any oversight.
    Bucky gets his assassin state triggered and goes on a rampage, proving he is still a threat. Steve still sides with keeping him free and at large, rather than taking him in for help.
    Steve makes out with his old girlfriends niece, ew.
    Steve knows about a plot to awaken multiple other winter soldiers, tells no one. Instead attempts to steal a quinjet, while fighting through TeamStark to try to stop it himself.
    Steve hits spiderman with an airplane, breaking his ribs.
    The fight ends up crippling Rhodey, as Steve and Bucky escape.
    Blackwidow switches sides (surprise?), tells Nat that Interpol is going to be after her now then lets her leave, she then threatens Tony. Because he is, for some reason, to blame for her sudden problems?
    Steve knew Bucky had BRUTALLY murdered the Stark's, and never told Tony.
    Steve beats Tony to near death.
    Steve breaks the rest of his team out of the raft, after they were captured. Because regardless of the loss of life and property damage they have caused, he still knows best?

    For Steve having been against people keeping secrets all this time, he sure does like keeping them himself. Almost like he really just wants to be the one in charge and making the decisions, rather than just being truthful.

    Cons against TeamStark:
    BP freaks out after seeing "Bucky" kill his father, tries to kill him.
    Tony freaks out after being forced to watch Bucky brutalize his parents, and being told Steve knew about it but said nothing, tries to kill Bucky.

    After all of this, they don't even cure Bucky. They just end up cryogenicly freezing him, because he admits he is too dangerous to keep walking around as he is. So all the destruction, pain, and anguish Steve has caused with this whole ordeal was for naught.

    I am kind of wondering if this is all leading into Steve actually being a Skrull, and them actually doing some form of secret invasion in the MCU. Because each movie is making him more and more aggressive towards everyone.

    That summary is way off

    Wanda:

    - Saves Steve and a crowd of onlookers from a suicide bomb, but it gets redirected into a building
    - She's pretty shaken up by it, questioning if she is still the same person as before she got her powers, and how people see her
    - Is reluctant to leave the base and Clint has to give her another pep talk to get her to come
    - She never "helped Ultron attempt to destroy the world", she turned on him immediately upon realizing his plans. She wanted revenge on Tony, and by extension the Avengers, but realized her error.

    Speaking of revenge

    - Zemo wants revenge against all of the Avengers
    - Tony wants revenge against Bucky, a victim of brainwashing, and attempts to kill him
    - T'Challa wants revenge against Bucky, spends most of the film trying to kill him, but realizes at the end that revenge is bad, going as far as preventing Zemo from committing suicide
    - The authorities themselves seem to want revenge against Bucky and primarily attempt to kill rather than capture him (for something it turns out he didn't do)
    - Where else have we seen this 'revenge bad' theme? Agents of Shield, Daredevil

    Steve:

    - Tells Wanda that the deaths in Lagos are his fault, not hers
    - Is against the accords because he's concerned about being sent somewhere without good cause, or being prevented from going somewhere needed
    - Explicitly says that it would be giving up responsibility for consequences of own actions
    - Sharon basically explictly tells Steve not to sign the accords when she speaks at Peggy's funeral
    - Steve intervenes because 1) After the Vienna bombing, the order is to kill Bucky 2) Reasons that Bucky is less likely to hurt him than anyone else
    - Cooperates fully once Bucky is taken in alive
    - Starts leaning towards signing the accords after Bucky is brought in alive, but is upset when he finds out Tony has Wanda under house arrest
    - Realizes that the whole thing is a setup just before...
    - Bucky getting 'activated' which proves that the whole thing is a setup, Steve prevents Bucky's escape, restrains Bucky until he is sure he can trust him, at which point the priority becomes stopping Zemo
    - Sharon and Steve can make out with whoever they like(and it would be better described as a Kiss). Also, I don't think anything ever actually "happened" between Steve and Peggy? Pretty sure Peggy would be cool with it.
    - Steve tells Tony et al about Zemo and the other Winter Soldiers at the Airport. Tony just demands they surrender. Steve fights because he has to in order to stop Zemo.
    - I don't remember exactly but I don't think 'throws a plane at' is what happens between Steve and Peter. They bond a little about both being New Yorkers.
    - Rhodey's injury happens when Sam dodges a blast from Vision, Sam immediately tries to save him, but both he and Tony fail to do so
    - How do you tell friend b that friend a killed friend b's parent while brainwashed? Can't blame him for not knowing how to approach it. I'm not sure that Steve knew this for a fact, as much as he realized that it was probably the case.
    - Steve doesn't 'beat Tony to near death', he disables Tony's suit, and then leaves his shield behind with Tony when Tony says he doesn't deserve it
    - Everyone is locked up on the raft because they helped Steve, so I imagine he feels responsible

    Natasha
    - Is primarily concerned with protecting everyone/keeping everyone together
    - Which is why she sides with signing the accords and discourages Steve from getting involved with the manhunt for Bucky
    - AND why she gets pissed off at Tony for letting things get so out of hand
    - 'Switching sides' consists of stopping T'Challa from catching Steve/Bucky. T'Challa being a third party with the agenda of killing Bucky for something he didn't do

    Things that befuddled me:

    - Steve's 'we can't save everyone' lines seemed out of character (in comparison to his attitude to saving everyone in Sokovia when the entire world was at stake), BUT he was trying to comfort Wanda
    - Bucky is tracked down in Bucharest, but team that goes after him are German, and then they bring everyone to Berlin. I guess because whole thing is happening under UN authority?
    - How does Steve know where the raft is?
    Maybe it is that he tries to save everyone but knows that it is unrealistic and will not always work?

    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    I watched it last night. Massively more enjoyable than BvS but has almost exactly the same problems. Also I felt they sorta watered down the whole point of the original story. Bit disappointed

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    I don't know how I feel about this movie. It definitely didn't have the same problems which Age of Ultron did, the execution was consistent and the storyline arcs made sense...
    But...I feel they didn't really resolve the main plot. and it wasn't well telegraphed that the main fight between the superheroes was in fact meant to be the climax of the movie.

    Which is possibly just a problem with that fight - you know they'll avoid doing serious damage, so the stakes seem kind of low.

    It also felt a lot like it just kind of ended. And I thought it was really poor form to have a pretty important story detail re: Bucky put into the mid-credits stinger.

    I don't think it really "grabbed" me story-wise, which is a shame because the central argument it wanted to present was actually super-interesting. I think if I wanted one big improvement it would've been actually to have a little more dialogue between the various Avengers on the registration movement - i.e. Vision had a pretty important point about why Wanda needed to stay in, and that should've been further explored.

  • scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    So Civil war is a movie which I have now seen and enjoyed! yay Germany!

    I had not expected it to be as funny as it turned out to be.

    Only two things did not click with me
    Black Panther. But hey, if you are the other new guy besides Spidey you are going to have a hard time.

    Bucky refrozen after all that hassle about him.

  • dylmandylman Registered User regular
    I also saw it today. As a film it has some pacing issues but it's cracking good fun and the many, many superheroes all get decent screen time. The film did a good job of advancing the overarching storyline and introducing new characters while still telling its own story - better than Age of Ultron did in my opinion (sorry Joss).

  • scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    yeah it is a better Avengers movie than Avengers 2, as much as it pains me to say it.

  • scherbchenscherbchen Asgard (it is dead)Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I was going to add a list of all the good things about Civil War but I don't think I want to test if there is a character limit on this forum so instead let me briefly mention the bits that made my day
    I went to this movie alone (a first for me) but so did a lot of others! that made me feel less weird. also the tons of elder females that went. that felt even better.

    Spidey. Boy did they nail everything about him I wanted to see. Also his introduction and meeting with Tony Stank.

    Airport fight. Thor versus Tony Stank in Avengers 1 cranked up to 11. extended to what felt like 15 minutes or more.

    Ant Man.

    The Brotherhood of the Inconspicuous VW Beetle.

    The visual of a depowered IM with Cap's shield lying on the floor.

    Chris Evans versus a helicopter.

    The Falcon comedy bits. Also RDJ whenever he got to do it.

    SW just selling what is basically just Telekinesis at this point.

    Vision's casual wear.

    and so much more that I am omitting.

    EDIT: mind you count me amongst those who thought it super weird that
    Cap kissed Agent 13. It felt very icky to me but was kinda washed away by the Inconspicuous Brotherhood. Best not to dwell on it for now but... issues!

    scherbchen on
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    scherbchen wrote: »
    yeah it is a better Avengers movie than Avengers 2, as much as it pains me to say it.

    That's not unexpected.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    The one bit of fridge logic that bothered me:
    In the middle of the big fight, Vision just kinda...disappears. I realize it's because with him included it's too lopsided, but so much of the fight was SW bailing out her allies who were outmatched that Vision's absence was notable.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Jragghen wrote: »
    The one bit of fridge logic that bothered me:
    In the middle of the big fight, Vision just kinda...disappears. I realize it's because with him included it's too lopsided, but so much of the fight was SW bailing out her allies who were outmatched that Vision's absence was notable.
    He was probably busy making googly eyes at Wanda

  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    just saw it, weeee!
    the only downside to this whole marvel thing is that because it's all linked the movies feel less contained.
    I'm not sure if they've handled the civil war story or if, later on, we get a 2nd half where someone important dies.


    The registration thing might have worked had they not tried to get it going through stark.
    stark is a mess. a huge, huge mess.

    tip.. tip.. TALLY.. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    The first issue I think when watching this was:
    The whole reason for the act didn't have any gravitas towards it in the film. The only example is the video montage to the events from other films showing the level of destruction, of which each one was saving many millions of lives. It would have been far better if we saw news reports, debates on the issue from the publics point of view or even a scene of the Avengers going to help the public and they are totally afraid of them just to highlight it. The issue that finally triggers the act with Wanda could have worked so much better if we saw the diplomats doing their jobs beforehand just to show the human side of the conflict. You could have even had leaked news footage to make it put Wanda in a worse light.

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Ziggymon wrote: »
    The first issue I think when watching this was:
    The whole reason for the act didn't have any gravitas towards it in the film. The only example is the video montage to the events from other films showing the level of destruction, of which each one was saving many millions of lives. It would have been far better if we saw news reports, debates on the issue from the publics point of view or even a scene of the Avengers going to help the public and they are totally afraid of them just to highlight it. The issue that finally triggers the act with Wanda could have worked so much better if we saw the diplomats doing their jobs beforehand just to show the human side of the conflict. You could have even had leaked news footage to make it put Wanda in a worse light.

    I agree with this. Also...
    The problem is the first hour is a lot of really slow setup. It's also a lot of great banter moments (I would watch an entire film of business casual Vision).

    But basically what was really missing was some elaboration on the differences between Stark and Cap. I think there was a moment there, between then the Sorkovia accords get proposed, and the UN bombing, where there should've been a disaster which technically falls under the accords and which the Avengers would've been held back from, where Steve decides to go in anyway.

    Something where things work out well, and kind of supports Steve's "people with agendas" point. It would've been a good opportunity to add a nice "hero" moment to the film (which is something I think it lacked - the fights in this movie are meant to be tragedies), and a good way to show rather then tell the difference.

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  • GatorGator An alligator in Scotland Registered User regular
    You know what really, irrationally, bothered me about this movie?

    The big-ass font of the "sub" titles

    It's a good thing you're telling me this is Lagos movie all I can see is the word "Lagos"

  • wiltingwilting I had fun once and it was awful Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    I liked it, made it feel like a spy/thriller film. Added to the sense of the international character of the accords/gravity of events and whatnot.

    Am I right in thinking this film had no title at the start? After a couple of sequences I was like ... and now we get the intro/title ... no? I guess not?

    Major ending spoiler:
    Did anyone not realise that the crashed car from 1991 was the one with Stark's parents? Was waiting for that shoe to drop for ageeesss but there were a couple of gasps in the cinema I was in when that was revealed.

    wilting on
  • Maz-Maz- 飛べ Registered User regular
    wilting wrote: »
    I liked it, made it feel like a spy/thriller film. Added to the sense of the international character of the accords/gravity of events and whatnot.

    Am I right in thinking this film had no title at the start? After a couple of sequences I was like ... and now we get the intro/title ... no? I guess not?

    Major ending spoiler:
    Did anyone not realise that the crashed car from 1991 was the one with Stark's parents? Was waiting for that shoe to drop for ageeesss but there were a couple of gasps in the cinema I was in when that was revealed.

    I didn't get it until they explicitly said it!

    Anyway, just got back from seeing this. It had a couple of issues (and I honestly don't know if I'll end up liking it more or less if I think about it some more and watch it a second time) but overall it was really good. Definitely better than Age of Ultron.

    What drags it down a bit is pretty much what I expected beforehand - way too many characters crammed into one movie, leaving some of them somewhat underdeveloped.
    That said, I was totally fine with the two new characters they added in this movie. I basically loved everything about Spiderman and Black Panther and I can't wait for their solo outings.

    Casting Martin Freeman as that one guy who has like 5 lines and no depth whatsoever though..what a waste. You could've done so much more with a brilliant actor like him.

    I loved pretty much everything about the ending. They could've easily gone with the finale being a fight against the other super soldiers, or maybe against Daniel Brühl after he absorbed their powers or whatever, but I'm glad they didn't go down that route. I liked that the conflict wasn't neatly resolved with everyone being happy and healthy (though I kinda expected Rhodes to die), it should make the next couple of movies interesting. Like, can Spiderman operate in the open now? Is the whole "acting under UN oversight" thing still going to happen?
    I'm kinda surprised they didn't tease or set up the Infinity War storyline at all.

    Also, what was the second stinger with Spiderman all about, exactly? Does his projector thingy have some kind of significance?

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  • McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    Ending spoiler
    I really liked that at the end, after they'd punched each other, they didn't need to go and fight Zemo who was now somehow superpowered. I think superhero movies ending with whoever punching hardest wins is a bit of a chain that has held them back - has been done so much now, such as 'Business man Stane now has a suit so you have to punch him'. I liked that they didn't need to physically destroy Zemo to stop him, plus solves the usual issue of always killing the villain.

    Also, I haven't looked, but I expect Martin Freeman to show up a lot in Black Panther's movie as Audience Exposition Guy.

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  • evilthecatevilthecat Registered User regular
    regarding freeman:
    does his character have any basis in the comics?

    because in the movie he came across a bit Joffrey-ish.
    you know, a weak and cruel person that gets off on power and inflicting pain to others.

    I mean when he was going through is "please step out of line!" dialogue I was expecting to hear his pants rip.

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  • McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    Freeman's character in comics (and also pants)
    Yes, I haven't read a lot of Black Panther but he was kind of a diplomat of some kind assigned to escort T'Challa around while he was in the US and ended up going back to Wakanda with him.

    Also, this happened.
    1999897-everett_ross_pants_from_mephisto_1998_black_panther_series.jpg

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Maz- wrote: »
    wilting wrote: »
    I liked it, made it feel like a spy/thriller film. Added to the sense of the international character of the accords/gravity of events and whatnot.

    Am I right in thinking this film had no title at the start? After a couple of sequences I was like ... and now we get the intro/title ... no? I guess not?

    Major ending spoiler:
    Did anyone not realise that the crashed car from 1991 was the one with Stark's parents? Was waiting for that shoe to drop for ageeesss but there were a couple of gasps in the cinema I was in when that was revealed.

    I didn't get it until they explicitly said it!

    Anyway, just got back from seeing this. It had a couple of issues (and I honestly don't know if I'll end up liking it more or less if I think about it some more and watch it a second time) but overall it was really good. Definitely better than Age of Ultron.

    What drags it down a bit is pretty much what I expected beforehand - way too many characters crammed into one movie, leaving some of them somewhat underdeveloped.
    That said, I was totally fine with the two new characters they added in this movie. I basically loved everything about Spiderman and Black Panther and I can't wait for their solo outings.

    Casting Martin Freeman as that one guy who has like 5 lines and no depth whatsoever though..what a waste. You could've done so much more with a brilliant actor like him.

    I loved pretty much everything about the ending. They could've easily gone with the finale being a fight against the other super soldiers, or maybe against Daniel Brühl after he absorbed their powers or whatever, but I'm glad they didn't go down that route. I liked that the conflict wasn't neatly resolved with everyone being happy and healthy (though I kinda expected Rhodes to die), it should make the next couple of movies interesting. Like, can Spiderman operate in the open now? Is the whole "acting under UN oversight" thing still going to happen?
    I'm kinda surprised they didn't tease or set up the Infinity War storyline at all.

    Also, what was the second stinger with Spiderman all about, exactly? Does his projector thingy have some kind of significance?

    regarding the second stinger
    I can't find the comic panel but Spider-Man used to have a spider-symbol-projector integrated into his suit, similar to the bat-signal.

  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    Ziggymon wrote: »
    I watched it last night. Massively more enjoyable than BvS but has almost exactly the same problems. Also I felt they sorta watered down the whole point of the original story. Bit disappointed

    The original story was nonsensical, dumb, and made everyone act out of character to serve the story that Millar wanted to tell. The reason it began was dumb, he turned Reed and Tony into mustache twirling villains, and the resolution was so heavy handed and silly that it broke what was already a flimsy story.

    This movie could do almost anything and it would be better than what we got in the comics.

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  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Civil War (the comic) is not a good story. It's had a massive impact and I get why a lot of people are attached to it, but yeah, super glad they didn't adapt it.

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