So I've been looking at how they're handling legendaries and I can say I'm not that much of a fan.
You have to wonder what they have in store for WoW after they hand out legendaries for free. Perhaps it's short sited of them, but random legendary drops and artifacts are supposed to be very powerful.
It begs to ask what is in store for WoW after Legion?
Well I mean
The WoW universe is always seconds away from annihilation due to ever increasingly implausible threats, pulled directly from Metzen's Twisting Nethers. So after a certain point you gotta ask if using the phrase Legendary "too freely" is really going too far.
Considering they're revolving the entire expansion around using the most recognizable weapons in the world, they're probably kicking themselves over dubbing the phrase 'legendary' to begin with
This might be one of the few points where using the word "iconic" actually works.
Although, yeah, no clue what they'd do for a future expansion. It's not like they're going to get *rid* of legendary weapons and make people go back to using "normal" weapons again. Maybe continually expand the power on the weapon so it scales up agin to the next expansions' level?
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drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
@PMAvers I dunno, they seemed to heavily suggest Artifacts would be something your hero would hang over their mantle once the fight with the Legion is over. Mind you... It isn't over until we go to Argus and kick their teeth in, so who knows.
Whatever is beyond Legion just does not make sense. Like what do we do? Go into the void and fight the creators of the universe? Nothing mortal could possibly pose a threat. Orcs have been dealt with, I seriously doubt the community would be receptive to another troll empire rising up from nowhere. The bag of possible super powered magical items has got to be going empty. There are only so many super awesome artifacts of supreme power that can exist. I think they did shoot themselves in the foot by calling things legendary, and don't really see a good way to move beyond artifact weapons. Am I going to be wielding the mustache tentacle of a somehow killed void lord as a 2h weapon?
Void lords seem like they should just be too powerful to actually fight, so without some kind of kerrigan-esque ascendance to xel'naga status, really the only thing left to fight would be ourselves. And there is kind of a little bit of evidence that may happen at some point anyway. Unless there is something truly compelling after legion, I just don't think I could stomach the story anymore. Just end it, do a time skip, release WC4, and make WoW2 out of it. Somehow working the naga into a playable race in the process
I doubt we'll actually completely deal with the Legion in this expansion. But by the end we may be in a position to finally push back instead of always being on the defensive.
The book made it pretty clear: the Older Gods I mean the Void Lords are next.
I'd prefer a reboot too but the shark was jumped a long ass time ago and there's no reason to believe things are going to become any less dumb and comic book-y now. Just embrace it for what it is. Silly pulp.
The next expansion reveals that Magatha Grimtotem was actually behind the events in both Cataclysm and Legion by revealing she's behind empowering N'Zoth who in turn corrupted Deathwing as well as the Emerald Dream. Now our heroes' attentions turn within to defeat the last Old God in an exciting new all-underwater expansion: The Seas of N'Zoth.
The next expansion reveals that Magatha Grimtotem was actually behind the events in both Cataclysm and Legion by revealing she's behind empowering N'Zoth who in turn corrupted Deathwing as well as the Emerald Dream. Now our heroes' attentions turn within to defeat the last Old God in an exciting new all-underwaterexpansion: The Seas of N'Zoth.
honestly i felt the term "legendary" lost its meaning two expansions ago as soon as the Everyone Quests For It system came in, so I think this system is much more exciting and interesting simply because the effects are cool, compared to what are basically generic stat boosts from the cape and ring
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Whatever is beyond Legion just does not make sense. Like what do we do? Go into the void and fight the creators of the universe? Nothing mortal could possibly pose a threat. Orcs have been dealt with, I seriously doubt the community would be receptive to another troll empire rising up from nowhere. The bag of possible super powered magical items has got to be going empty. There are only so many super awesome artifacts of supreme power that can exist. I think they did shoot themselves in the foot by calling things legendary, and don't really see a good way to move beyond artifact weapons. Am I going to be wielding the mustache tentacle of a somehow killed void lord as a 2h weapon?
Void lords seem like they should just be too powerful to actually fight, so without some kind of kerrigan-esque ascendance to xel'naga status, really the only thing left to fight would be ourselves. And there is kind of a little bit of evidence that may happen at some point anyway. Unless there is something truly compelling after legion, I just don't think I could stomach the story anymore. Just end it, do a time skip, release WC4, and make WoW2 out of it. Somehow working the naga into a playable race in the process
Well they've basically said we're not actually beating the Legion in Legion.
Well to be fair, they said Grom was going to be the last boss in WoD and he didn't even end up dying. I think the final patch for Legion is going to depend heavily on how legion fares in the first few months after its release. If perception is bad and people let their subs lapse, they will probably use Sargeras as a way to bring people back to the game. If sub counts stay high, maybe theyll push things back another expansion to finish him off. I kind of get the feeling legion is kind of a final gambit sort of deal for blizzard. Compared to hearthstone and hots I just can't see blizzard the company putting so many resources into it when other games probably have much higher profit margins.
The next expansion reveals that Magatha Grimtotem was actually behind the events in both Cataclysm and Legion by revealing she's behind empowering N'Zoth who in turn corrupted Deathwing as well as the Emerald Dream. Now our heroes' attentions turn within to defeat the last Old God in an exciting new all-underwater expansion: The Seas of N'Zoth.
I would be very impressed if they went old gods, and had the old gods actually win. You fail to stop them and they eat/reset the universe.
i suspect after working on titan blizz feels that the mmo genre might be winding down for a while
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I really don't think an MMO can successfully reboot or have a sequel.
You would nearly universally be better off just making another expansion. Even if you completely replace the graphics engine with an entirely new engine and re-do all sorts of game mechanics, you would still be better off copying player data across and just calling it a big expansion instead. People will NOT want to lose their accumulated progress and accounts and a WoW 2 would do nothing but splinter the playerbase.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Final Fantasy XIV is a sequel and was rebooted, and it is very successful.
Final Fantasy XIV is a sequel and was rebooted, and it is very successful.
Yeah it's pretty much a perfect example of how to do it right. Granted you have to fail first and reassess, but they've got a winner on their hands right now with no signs of stopping.
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Final Fantasy XIV is a sequel and was rebooted, and it is very successful.
For all intents and purposes it was not a reboot since the first iteration failed so spectacularly that there were no existing customers that had emotional attachments to their characters. Meanwhile I'd be pretty pissed if they poofed my rogue i have had since Nov 2004 even though i barely play these days (mostly because WoD has way overstayed it's welcome).
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I can see that argument, but the predecessor had already failed as a game and there weren't really many people still playing
Big difference between that and rebooting fucking World of Warcraft.
There are three ways to reboot an MMO.
1) You shut down the original game, and open a new game with a completely fresh start for everyone. (The Final Fantasy method) Upside - no splintering of playerbase, opportunity to re-do the game with latest tech Downside - a lot of duplicate dev work, and you also potentially lose a big chunk of players who won't like seeing their progress gone
2) You keep the original game going, and open a new game with a completely fresh start for everyone. (The Everquest method) Upside - People who like the original game get to keep playing it Downside - Splinters your playerbase and requires you to maintain two games.
3) You shut down the original game, and open a new game, but preserve everybody's progress. Essentially it is more like a heavy-duty expansion with a game overhaul, than an actual new game. (The Runescape method) Upside - No splintering of playerbase, everyone keeps their progress, game is refreshed and you can move forward with a modern engine Downside - Arguably more development work than a new game, because you have to figure out how to change and update everything without breaking all of the existing content that people want to keep their progress for
Final Fantasy XIV is a sequel and was rebooted, and it is very successful.
For all intents and purposes it was not a reboot since the first iteration failed so spectacularly that there were no existing customers that had emotional attachments to their characters. Meanwhile I'd be pretty pissed if they poofed my rogue i have had since Nov 2004 even though i barely play these days (mostly because WoD has way overstayed it's welcome).
That's not true at all. You can see all the people with Legacy tattoos that are evidence to the contrary. (myself included)
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I dont think they could just up and release wow2. They would have to release something in between. Any new mmo i think would have to seriously reevaluate how leveling and max level content would be handled. Having 60+ levels to crawl through to max level is too much. Leveling in wildstar just took too long, and was boring. The world and setting was cool, it just couldnt hold anyones interest. Everyone seems to want a ton of max level content, and i dont think any new game could survive if it has a bunch of useless content like wow currently does. Every expansion that wow releases hurts the number of new players. You may get 1 freebie max level, but anything after that you have to pay or level through a ton of lifeless zones or smash your face on the group finder. Even with heirlooms its tedious at best.
Building a game from the ground up to basically be all max level content would be the way to go for content. The problem is then, how do you manage making players feel like they are progressing without just causing inflation like now?
Final Fantasy XIV is a sequel and was rebooted, and it is very successful.
For all intents and purposes it was not a reboot since the first iteration failed so spectacularly that there were no existing customers that had emotional attachments to their characters. Meanwhile I'd be pretty pissed if they poofed my rogue i have had since Nov 2004 even though i barely play these days (mostly because WoD has way overstayed it's welcome).
That's not true at all. You can see all the people with Legacy tattoos that are evidence to the contrary. (myself included)
There's a big difference between the few people who played FF14 from 2010-2013 and the millions and millions and millions of people who have WoW characters that are up to twelve years old.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I dont think they could just up and release wow2. They would have to release something in between. Any new mmo i think would have to seriously reevaluate how leveling and max level content would be handled. Having 60+ levels to crawl through to max level is too much. Leveling in wildstar just took too long, and was boring. The world and setting was cool, it just couldnt hold anyones interest. Everyone seems to want a ton of max level content, and i dont think any new game could survive if it has a bunch of useless content like wow currently does. Every expansion that wow releases hurts the number of new players. You may get 1 freebie max level, but anything after that you have to pay or level through a ton of lifeless zones or smash your face on the group finder. Even with heirlooms its tedious at best.
Building a game from the ground up to basically be all max level content would be the way to go for content. The problem is then, how do you manage making players feel like they are progressing without just causing inflation like now?
If the next expansion implemented Legion's level scaling system across every current WoW zone, that would be a great way to "reboot" the game. Allowing people to start their levelling journey at level 1 in Northrend, head over to Eastern Kingdoms 60-80, then finish up in original Outland would be a nightmare story-wise, but a great way to do it for gameplay.
Levelling is so quick these days that even if you quest exclusively to level, you will never see half of the zones that are available. Through Outland you'll never see more than Hellfire Peninsula and Zangarmarsh, maybe a tiny bit of Terokkar. You'll never see Nagrand, Netherstorm, Blade's Edge, or Shadowmoon Valley. Through Northrend you'll see either Borean Tundra or Howling Fjord, plus Dragonblight, and that'll be it. You'll miss Sholazar, Zul'Drak, Grizzly Hills, Gundrak, Icecrown, and Storm Peaks.
Cataclysm and Mists are even worse, you'll usually go 80-85 in Hyjal or Vash'jir alone, and 85-90 in Jade Forest alone.
Final Fantasy XIV is a sequel and was rebooted, and it is very successful.
For all intents and purposes it was not a reboot since the first iteration failed so spectacularly that there were no existing customers that had emotional attachments to their characters. Meanwhile I'd be pretty pissed if they poofed my rogue i have had since Nov 2004 even though i barely play these days (mostly because WoD has way overstayed it's welcome).
That's not true at all. You can see all the people with Legacy tattoos that are evidence to the contrary. (myself included)
There's a big difference between the few people who played FF14 from 2010-2013 and the millions and millions and millions of people who have WoW characters that are up to twelve years old.
Oh absolutely. If we're talking a reboot though we should talk FFXI to FFXIV, most of the playerbase from the former moved to the latter and then some. The FFXIV 1.0 to 2.0 part was technically a reboot, since it was the same game and story and the rebuilt the game from the ground up, but the FFXI to FFXIV was the real shift. They just fumbled with it at first.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Oh absolutely. If we're talking a reboot though we should talk FFXI to FFXIV, most of the playerbase from the former moved to the latter and then some. The FFXIV 1.0 to 2.0 part was technically a reboot, since it was the same game and story and the rebuilt the game from the ground up, but the FFXI to FFXIV was the real shift. They just fumbled with it at first.
It isn't relevant whether the whole playerbase moved or not. What matters is the size and age of that playerbase. (Age in terms of their character age)
The amount of people who have ever played WoW is a hundred times more than the amount of people who have ever played any other MMO, ever, and it would not be a viable decision to just ditch all of that accumulated progress for that many players. You think it's hard for Blizzard to get people back for a cool new expansion, imagine how much harder it will be if their decade-old characters are gone.
Oh absolutely. If we're talking a reboot though we should talk FFXI to FFXIV, most of the playerbase from the former moved to the latter and then some. The FFXIV 1.0 to 2.0 part was technically a reboot, since it was the same game and story and the rebuilt the game from the ground up, but the FFXI to FFXIV was the real shift. They just fumbled with it at first.
It isn't relevant whether the whole playerbase moved or not. What matters is the size and age of that playerbase. (Age in terms of their character age)
The amount of people who have ever played WoW is a hundred times more than the amount of people who have ever played any other MMO, ever, and it would not be a viable decision to just ditch all of that accumulated progress for that many players. You think it's hard for Blizzard to get people back for a cool new expansion, imagine how much harder it will be if their decade-old characters are gone.
Ah good old sunk cost. Yeah I don't think I agree at all. I think it's good to have that progress be what it was, have the story finally come to an end, and then start up something new and allow players to start on a new adventure. The fact that there is 12 years worth of progress built up has no bearing whatsoever honestly. I think it would be much easier to get people to come back for a whole new adventure honestly.
FFXI was in the same spot, the playerbase was dwindling, the expansions were still good but the story needed to end. They started winding it down, and built a new game that players came back in droves for. Unfortunately that game sucked, but luckily they were able to rebuild it and get all those players back (at least most of them) and attract a whole new generation of players.
WoW had an amazing run, but they really need to let it go and built a new one. The problem is they know this, and they tried to make something new in the form of Titan, which failed internally before we ever got to see it.
On the silver lining though that transformed into Overwatch, which is amazing. But they really do need to go back to the drawing board on the MMO scene imo if they want to turn it around. And I don't mean another expansion where they change everything, I mean square one, WoW 2.0 or new IP.
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I dont think they could just up and release wow2. They would have to release something in between. Any new mmo i think would have to seriously reevaluate how leveling and max level content would be handled. Having 60+ levels to crawl through to max level is too much. Leveling in wildstar just took too long, and was boring. The world and setting was cool, it just couldnt hold anyones interest. Everyone seems to want a ton of max level content, and i dont think any new game could survive if it has a bunch of useless content like wow currently does. Every expansion that wow releases hurts the number of new players. You may get 1 freebie max level, but anything after that you have to pay or level through a ton of lifeless zones or smash your face on the group finder. Even with heirlooms its tedious at best.
Building a game from the ground up to basically be all max level content would be the way to go for content. The problem is then, how do you manage making players feel like they are progressing without just causing inflation like now?
If the next expansion implemented Legion's level scaling system across every current WoW zone, that would be a great way to "reboot" the game. Allowing people to start their levelling journey at level 1 in Northrend, head over to Eastern Kingdoms 60-80, then finish up in original Outland would be a nightmare story-wise, but a great way to do it for gameplay.
Levelling is so quick these days that even if you quest exclusively to level, you will never see half of the zones that are available. Through Outland you'll never see more than Hellfire Peninsula and Zangarmarsh, maybe a tiny bit of Terokkar. You'll never see Nagrand, Netherstorm, Blade's Edge, or Shadowmoon Valley. Through Northrend you'll see either Borean Tundra or Howling Fjord, plus Dragonblight, and that'll be it. You'll miss Sholazar, Zul'Drak, Grizzly Hills, Gundrak, Icecrown, and Storm Peaks.
Cataclysm and Mists are even worse, you'll usually go 80-85 in Hyjal or Vash'jir alone, and 85-90 in Jade Forest alone.
I'd totally be all for scaling stuff like that. Maybe toss some currency in alongside quest rewards that you can spend at max level, to give you a excuse to actually go out and do *all* the content in the world(s).
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I for one would be fucking livid if they remade a WoW2 that reset progress, and didn't keep the original game going. And if they kept the original game going, I'd just keep playing that.
I have a lot of history and achievements tied up in my WoW account, and I will not lightly let that go. It's maybe different for someone who just started playing in Warlords or something, but I have unsubbed and resubbed multiple times from WoW, and the thing that keeps me coming back is revisiting my characters and taking them on new adventures.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited May 2016
Can you explain why you think WoW even needs a reboot? What problems does WoW currently have that only a reboot would fix, aside from the aging graphics engine?
And what form would that reboot even take? Do you go back to Kalimdor & Eastern Kingdoms only, and re-do WoW all over again in a new engine? WoW's story is what it is, you can't un-do the story, so you can either re-tell it in a new engine, or you can continue it. But if you're going to continue it, why reboot at all?
The code of the game is held together by shoestring, bubblegum, and the hopes and dreams of Blizz designer's. There's a reason why they can't just do so many things which you'd expect to be incredibly simple, like allow you to ditch that now old ass bag you start off with. When they can't do something like that for fear of fucking something up really bad, you know everything else has got to be a mess.
Sure the newer stuff might be somewhat neater, but it's built on a foundation that's ancient. While they've upgraded the graphics several times, the engine itself is still the same.
Edit: On the topic of attachment to characters. I still love my old Orc Warrior from vanilla but he honestly didn't even get leveled all the way through WoD content. He was moved off of my original server for Cataclysm, I restarted as Alliance at the start of WoD and when I decided to join some friends back on Horde later I just really didn't want to spend the ridiculous amount of money to transfer him(and the other characters I'd want to) to the new server.
The attachment (probably) isn't as strong as you assume it is.
Can you explain why you think WoW even needs a reboot? What problems does WoW currently have that only a reboot would fix, aside from the aging graphics engine?
And what form would that reboot even take? Do you go back to Kalimdor & Eastern Kingdoms only, and re-do WoW all over again in a new engine? WoW's story is what it is, you can't un-do the story, so you can either re-tell it in a new engine, or you can continue it. But if you're going to continue it, why reboot at all?
Well the game is slowly dying for one, and really that's the biggest thing. Each expansion boosts numbers by quite a bit, showing people are interested in new stuff, but then just as quickly it drops even further. It's gotten so bad they don't even report sub numbers anymore (under the reasoning that they added the RMT aspect so it flubs the numbers a bit)
It's a sinking ship. They are doing what they can to stem the flood but there is only so much they can do while being tied to the current story and architecture of the game and dealing with players that are too entrenched in the current setup of the game.
However with a new game they don't have to worry about any of that. They can make the game exactly how they want, with the knowledge they've gained over the last decade. Using the controversial flying as an example, they can design the game from the get go to take advantage of flying, the questing system and maps can be designed in such as way as to take advantage of it without it instead hindering the process.
You actually bring up a good point about the story in WoW, the world of Warcraft is centered around a very specific world and characters as opposed to a more thematic setup like Final Fantasy. So they can't really make WoW 2.0 without trying to retell the same story (not a good idea imo), it would have to be a new IP for it to really work (which again shows why they tried to do so). WoW would continue on for a bit while subs continue to dwindle and they would have a new IP to start fresh from and build a really solid platform to continue into the future. They also get the benefit of a brand new story to tell, one that hasn't escalated to the point that WoW currently has. You can only keep raising the stakes and making the player more powerful for so long before you running out gods and universes to topple.
edit: I say this from the perspective of someone who played from Vanilla up through Cataclysm.
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I wouldn't be all that broken up about a reboot, despite the thousands of hours I've logged.
If they ever do decide to release a WoW2 I'd play it.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I would have to imagine that if they ever did WoW2, they'd let you carry over as many things as humanly possible. Achievements and titles should be pretty easy to port over. You'd probably also get some WoW1 player only mounts or transmogs or something, as they're leaning pretty heavily on the cross-game promotion stuff.
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Well I mean
The WoW universe is always seconds away from annihilation due to ever increasingly implausible threats, pulled directly from Metzen's Twisting Nethers. So after a certain point you gotta ask if using the phrase Legendary "too freely" is really going too far.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Although, yeah, no clue what they'd do for a future expansion. It's not like they're going to get *rid* of legendary weapons and make people go back to using "normal" weapons again. Maybe continually expand the power on the weapon so it scales up agin to the next expansions' level?
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Okay, that's neat then.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
Void lords seem like they should just be too powerful to actually fight, so without some kind of kerrigan-esque ascendance to xel'naga status, really the only thing left to fight would be ourselves. And there is kind of a little bit of evidence that may happen at some point anyway. Unless there is something truly compelling after legion, I just don't think I could stomach the story anymore. Just end it, do a time skip, release WC4, and make WoW2 out of it. Somehow working the naga into a playable race in the process
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I'd prefer a reboot too but the shark was jumped a long ass time ago and there's no reason to believe things are going to become any less dumb and comic book-y now. Just embrace it for what it is. Silly pulp.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Exactly what fans have been hoping for.
But I can't seem to enter the "normal" version of the instance. Every time I set foot inside it gets automatically set to Heroic.
Is there no "normal" version of End Time?
Well they've basically said we're not actually beating the Legion in Legion.
Nope! Cataclysm was basically when they said 'everything up to 81-84 is normal, everything 85 is heroic'
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I would be very impressed if they went old gods, and had the old gods actually win. You fail to stop them and they eat/reset the universe.
Then announced WoW2.
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i suspect after working on titan blizz feels that the mmo genre might be winding down for a while
You would nearly universally be better off just making another expansion. Even if you completely replace the graphics engine with an entirely new engine and re-do all sorts of game mechanics, you would still be better off copying player data across and just calling it a big expansion instead. People will NOT want to lose their accumulated progress and accounts and a WoW 2 would do nothing but splinter the playerbase.
Yeah it's pretty much a perfect example of how to do it right. Granted you have to fail first and reassess, but they've got a winner on their hands right now with no signs of stopping.
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For all intents and purposes it was not a reboot since the first iteration failed so spectacularly that there were no existing customers that had emotional attachments to their characters. Meanwhile I'd be pretty pissed if they poofed my rogue i have had since Nov 2004 even though i barely play these days (mostly because WoD has way overstayed it's welcome).
Big difference between that and rebooting fucking World of Warcraft.
There are three ways to reboot an MMO.
1) You shut down the original game, and open a new game with a completely fresh start for everyone. (The Final Fantasy method)
Upside - no splintering of playerbase, opportunity to re-do the game with latest tech
Downside - a lot of duplicate dev work, and you also potentially lose a big chunk of players who won't like seeing their progress gone
2) You keep the original game going, and open a new game with a completely fresh start for everyone. (The Everquest method)
Upside - People who like the original game get to keep playing it
Downside - Splinters your playerbase and requires you to maintain two games.
3) You shut down the original game, and open a new game, but preserve everybody's progress. Essentially it is more like a heavy-duty expansion with a game overhaul, than an actual new game. (The Runescape method)
Upside - No splintering of playerbase, everyone keeps their progress, game is refreshed and you can move forward with a modern engine
Downside - Arguably more development work than a new game, because you have to figure out how to change and update everything without breaking all of the existing content that people want to keep their progress for
That's not true at all. You can see all the people with Legacy tattoos that are evidence to the contrary. (myself included)
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Building a game from the ground up to basically be all max level content would be the way to go for content. The problem is then, how do you manage making players feel like they are progressing without just causing inflation like now?
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
There's a big difference between the few people who played FF14 from 2010-2013 and the millions and millions and millions of people who have WoW characters that are up to twelve years old.
If the next expansion implemented Legion's level scaling system across every current WoW zone, that would be a great way to "reboot" the game. Allowing people to start their levelling journey at level 1 in Northrend, head over to Eastern Kingdoms 60-80, then finish up in original Outland would be a nightmare story-wise, but a great way to do it for gameplay.
Levelling is so quick these days that even if you quest exclusively to level, you will never see half of the zones that are available. Through Outland you'll never see more than Hellfire Peninsula and Zangarmarsh, maybe a tiny bit of Terokkar. You'll never see Nagrand, Netherstorm, Blade's Edge, or Shadowmoon Valley. Through Northrend you'll see either Borean Tundra or Howling Fjord, plus Dragonblight, and that'll be it. You'll miss Sholazar, Zul'Drak, Grizzly Hills, Gundrak, Icecrown, and Storm Peaks.
Cataclysm and Mists are even worse, you'll usually go 80-85 in Hyjal or Vash'jir alone, and 85-90 in Jade Forest alone.
Oh absolutely. If we're talking a reboot though we should talk FFXI to FFXIV, most of the playerbase from the former moved to the latter and then some. The FFXIV 1.0 to 2.0 part was technically a reboot, since it was the same game and story and the rebuilt the game from the ground up, but the FFXI to FFXIV was the real shift. They just fumbled with it at first.
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It isn't relevant whether the whole playerbase moved or not. What matters is the size and age of that playerbase. (Age in terms of their character age)
The amount of people who have ever played WoW is a hundred times more than the amount of people who have ever played any other MMO, ever, and it would not be a viable decision to just ditch all of that accumulated progress for that many players. You think it's hard for Blizzard to get people back for a cool new expansion, imagine how much harder it will be if their decade-old characters are gone.
Ah good old sunk cost. Yeah I don't think I agree at all. I think it's good to have that progress be what it was, have the story finally come to an end, and then start up something new and allow players to start on a new adventure. The fact that there is 12 years worth of progress built up has no bearing whatsoever honestly. I think it would be much easier to get people to come back for a whole new adventure honestly.
FFXI was in the same spot, the playerbase was dwindling, the expansions were still good but the story needed to end. They started winding it down, and built a new game that players came back in droves for. Unfortunately that game sucked, but luckily they were able to rebuild it and get all those players back (at least most of them) and attract a whole new generation of players.
WoW had an amazing run, but they really need to let it go and built a new one. The problem is they know this, and they tried to make something new in the form of Titan, which failed internally before we ever got to see it.
On the silver lining though that transformed into Overwatch, which is amazing. But they really do need to go back to the drawing board on the MMO scene imo if they want to turn it around. And I don't mean another expansion where they change everything, I mean square one, WoW 2.0 or new IP.
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I'd totally be all for scaling stuff like that. Maybe toss some currency in alongside quest rewards that you can spend at max level, to give you a excuse to actually go out and do *all* the content in the world(s).
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I have a lot of history and achievements tied up in my WoW account, and I will not lightly let that go. It's maybe different for someone who just started playing in Warlords or something, but I have unsubbed and resubbed multiple times from WoW, and the thing that keeps me coming back is revisiting my characters and taking them on new adventures.
And what form would that reboot even take? Do you go back to Kalimdor & Eastern Kingdoms only, and re-do WoW all over again in a new engine? WoW's story is what it is, you can't un-do the story, so you can either re-tell it in a new engine, or you can continue it. But if you're going to continue it, why reboot at all?
Sure the newer stuff might be somewhat neater, but it's built on a foundation that's ancient. While they've upgraded the graphics several times, the engine itself is still the same.
Edit: On the topic of attachment to characters. I still love my old Orc Warrior from vanilla but he honestly didn't even get leveled all the way through WoD content. He was moved off of my original server for Cataclysm, I restarted as Alliance at the start of WoD and when I decided to join some friends back on Horde later I just really didn't want to spend the ridiculous amount of money to transfer him(and the other characters I'd want to) to the new server.
The attachment (probably) isn't as strong as you assume it is.
Well the game is slowly dying for one, and really that's the biggest thing. Each expansion boosts numbers by quite a bit, showing people are interested in new stuff, but then just as quickly it drops even further. It's gotten so bad they don't even report sub numbers anymore (under the reasoning that they added the RMT aspect so it flubs the numbers a bit)
It's a sinking ship. They are doing what they can to stem the flood but there is only so much they can do while being tied to the current story and architecture of the game and dealing with players that are too entrenched in the current setup of the game.
However with a new game they don't have to worry about any of that. They can make the game exactly how they want, with the knowledge they've gained over the last decade. Using the controversial flying as an example, they can design the game from the get go to take advantage of flying, the questing system and maps can be designed in such as way as to take advantage of it without it instead hindering the process.
You actually bring up a good point about the story in WoW, the world of Warcraft is centered around a very specific world and characters as opposed to a more thematic setup like Final Fantasy. So they can't really make WoW 2.0 without trying to retell the same story (not a good idea imo), it would have to be a new IP for it to really work (which again shows why they tried to do so). WoW would continue on for a bit while subs continue to dwindle and they would have a new IP to start fresh from and build a really solid platform to continue into the future. They also get the benefit of a brand new story to tell, one that hasn't escalated to the point that WoW currently has. You can only keep raising the stakes and making the player more powerful for so long before you running out gods and universes to topple.
edit: I say this from the perspective of someone who played from Vanilla up through Cataclysm.
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If they ever do decide to release a WoW2 I'd play it.