[WoW]: The portal's always greener on the fel side.

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  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    I'm an Orc and I take offense to that bloodthirsty comment!

    *Idly sips a small teacup of bloodtea*

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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    What was the reason the taurens are horde and not alliance, lore wise? Because they look monstrous?

  • I needed a gnome to post.I needed a gnome to post. i'm the bat guy (bluh)Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    What was the reason the taurens are horde and not alliance, lore wise? Because they look monstrous?

    the tauren ally themselves with the horde in warcraft 3

    the horde makes first contact with them and helps them fend off centaur attacks during a tauren exodus to what would later become Thunder Bluff

    cairne swears an oath to assist the horde in return for this, and "and then we fought demons that were trying to destroy the entire world" is a very stressful environment that forms tighter bonds

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  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    The fact that they'd have literally been reduced to hamburger for the centaur if it weren't for the orcs and trolls probably helps with that. I'll admit I'm not entirely sure where the hippy/peaceful vibe even came from given their unit was the biggest and most SMASH out of any of them for the Horde in WC3.

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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    What was the reason the taurens are horde and not alliance, lore wise? Because they look monstrous?

    the tauren ally themselves with the horde in warcraft 3

    the horde makes first contact with them and helps them fend off centaur attacks during a tauren exodus to what would later become Thunder Bluff

    cairne swears an oath to assist the horde in return for this, and "and then we fought demons that were trying to destroy the entire world" is a very stressful environment that forms tighter bonds

    Ah, that makes sense.

    My main is a Tauren druid, so it has always felt really weird having being in the whole HvA thing.

    Honestly the druids always kind of felt like they should have been a third faction. Horde and Alliance battling back and forth, the druids getting pissed and fighting back because they are destroying everything.

    Caedwyr
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Morkath wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    What was the reason the taurens are horde and not alliance, lore wise? Because they look monstrous?

    the tauren ally themselves with the horde in warcraft 3

    the horde makes first contact with them and helps them fend off centaur attacks during a tauren exodus to what would later become Thunder Bluff

    cairne swears an oath to assist the horde in return for this, and "and then we fought demons that were trying to destroy the entire world" is a very stressful environment that forms tighter bonds

    Ah, that makes sense.

    My main is a Tauren druid, so it has always felt really weird having being in the whole HvA thing.

    Honestly the druids always kind of felt like they should have been a third faction. Horde and Alliance battling back and forth, the druids getting pissed and fighting back because they are destroying everything.

    That would be DEHTA. :rotate:


    But seriously, they kind of have one already. Cenarion Circle and all that has both Night Elves and Tauren actively working together. But they're not a warlike organization, and they have had bigger problems on their plate since like forever with the Emerald Dream situation that Blizzard is adamant about never exploring significantly in in the game.

    Morkath
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    The Emerald Nightmare/dream is a dungeon in legion. I havent looked much past the name, but it looks like they are doing something with it. But didn't all the dragonflights pretty much go away in cata? Ysera and all the green drakes that have had emerald dream related events in early wow being absent from any emerald dream content feels like it would be bad.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    The Emerald Nightmare/dream is a dungeon in legion. I havent looked much past the name, but it looks like they are doing something with it. But didn't all the dragonflights pretty much go away in cata? Ysera and all the green drakes that have had emerald dream related events in early wow being absent from any emerald dream content feels like it would be bad.

    The black was basically wiped out. Blue was struggling to rebuild from the Demon Soul even before the nexus war. Dragons were never numerous and the Cataclysm conflict cut their number substantially. Alexstraza lost an entire clutch to Deathwing for instance. With the Aspects diminished the dragonflights aren't really a serious power any more.
    RT800 wrote: »
    I've always been kinda bummed that Blood Elves are Horde only.

    I mean they're the same model as high elves and high elves are Alliance.

    I could see making peace with the Orcs, Tauren, and Blood Elves. Maybe even the Trolls and Goblins.

    But those Forsaken are shifty as hell.

    They used to play it up more that the Horde wasn't super unified. Blood Elves and Forsaken get along because Lich King, but they basically do their own thing apart from the Kalimdor Horde that Thrall forged. If I remember right Horde toons still start with wonky faction reputations accordingly.
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    The Emerald Nightmare/dream is a dungeon in legion. I havent looked much past the name, but it looks like they are doing something with it.
    Its a whole raid. Lots of corrupted Ancients, including Cenarius, and Xavius at the end. Its an open layout raid like Firelands so you can poke around. Green dragons have some presence but like I mentioned above, they've lost a lot of power. The old Emerald Nightmare world bosses will be back as a council like fight and there's a corrupted green dragon boss that looks awesome.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    the dragons evidently aren't 'aspects' anymore, whatever that means. They lost a bunch of their power at the end of cataclysm but I dunno if that's ever been expanded upon (probably in a novel or something.)

    wrathion is the only surviving black dragonflight member, I think (although I suppose they could always reveal that more have been hiding somewhere or something)

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    the dragons evidently aren't 'aspects' anymore, whatever that means. They lost a bunch of their power at the end of cataclysm but I dunno if that's ever been expanded upon (probably in a novel or something.)

    wrathion is the only surviving black dragonflight member, I think (although I suppose they could always reveal that more have been hiding somewhere or something)

    Basically it just means they've lost their crazy level of power. They can still do the things they did, just not at the same scale. Wrathion is the last left, but he's also unique in that he's the first Black Dragon since the Demon Soul who's free of the Old Gods. He's still a huge dick though.

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  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    I did kill deathwing and watched all the dragons give up their power so thrall could go super saiyan or whatever, it just really felt like the dragons were pretty much nothing after that. Though apparently the bronze dragonflight has some ability to mess things up. Sort of related, the infinite flight was taken care of at some point right? Something like you went forward in time to kill corrupted anachronos who is the infinite aspect? The dragons need to be cool again :(
    Especially since ysera is one of my favorite hearthstone cards.

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  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Yeah, you kill the leader of the Infinite Flight in the alternate future as part of the dungeons leading up to Dragon Soul. The dragons all retain their powers (bronze can still do time stuff, for example), they're just not connected to the planet anymore and so aren't nearly as powerful.

    For the Emerald Nightmare, it was fixed off-screen by Malfurion but then the Legion comes back and kick starts it again.

  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Yeah the Emerald Nightmare stuff is a thing again, which I'm glad for as I want it in game more.

    Man, Warcraft lore is a mess, but Im still hooked on it. It's like skittles; over-processed and horrible for you, but you enjoy them one sloppy handful at a time.

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    Did they ever explain what the infinite dragonflight was about?

    I don't remember ever getting an explanation for that. It was just... evil time dragons.

    And why did they even send us back to the Battle of Mt. Hyjal? The infinite dragonflight weren't even there and we already knew the legion would be defeated.

  • SkwigelfSkwigelf Passed out in a cloud of farts and cigarette smoke.Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Basically Future corrupted Nozdormu attempting to change the timelines to aid the Old Gods.

    edit: As for Hyjal, I believe it was explained as being a reward for our help, Nozdormu created a time pocket around that battle and allowed us to take part in the battle without affecting the overall timeline.

    Skwigelf on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    They just need to stop telling Christie Golden that she's a good writer.

    drunkenpandarenNobody
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    The Infinite Dragonflight was created by a future Nozdormu who basically goes off the deep end in an attempt to stop himself from dying, so eventually... someday, the Bronze Flight will turn into them. Even Nozdormu said that his madness will not come to pass for some time.

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  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    They just need to stop telling Christie Golden that she's a good writer.

    Please, I still absolutely hate the idea that Arthas was evil the whole time and didn't have any good intentions at all.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    And I just remembered why I stopped caring that much about lore, by reading some Legion spoilers (yes, is the Paladin thing):
    So, not only Tirion dies (and Green Jesus lives), but the DKs break into the Paladin's Order Hall, beat up Lady Liadrin, and steal Tirion's corpse to reanimate him as one of the Four Horsemen in the service of Bolvar.

    That's 100% bullshit.

    PMAvers
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    And I just remembered why I stopped caring that much about lore, by reading some Legion spoilers (yes, is the Paladin thing):
    So, not only Tirion dies (and Green Jesus lives), but the DKs break into the Paladin's Order Hall, beat up Lady Liadrin, and steal Tirion's corpse to reanimate him as one of the Four Horsemen in the service of Bolvar.

    That's 100% bullshit.

    Disagree.
    It's 100% metal as fuck.

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Arthas did some pretty questionable things even before taking up Frostmourne.

    The purging of Stratholme and the burning of his men's ships in Northrend, for example.

    I'm not sure how much of that was supposed to be because he was under Ner'zhul's influence or because he was just becoming an increasingly fanatical asshole.

    But I do like the idea that Arthas was just a man driven to extremes by the horrors of war and who was ultimately just as much a victim of the Scourge as anyone else. He works much better as a tragic figure, rather than a mustache-twirling super villain.

    RT800 on
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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    Arthas did some pretty questionable things even before taking up Frostmourne.

    The purging of Stratholme and the burning of his men's ships in Northrend, for example.

    I'm not sure how much of that was supposed to be because he was under Ner'zhul's influence or because he was just becoming an increasingly fanatical asshole.

    But I do like the idea that Arthas was just a man driven to extremes by the horrors of war and who was ultimately just as much a victim of the Scourge as anyone else. He works much better as a tragic figure, rather than a mustache-twirling super villain.

    Is the same problem of Jaina and the spoilered thing: Blizzard is leaning heavily on the mustache-twirling, even if it means that characters are less interesting. How much is a lack of caring and how much is wanting to create raid bosses is up to the reader.

  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I definitely roll my eyes every time they bring a character back from the dead just so they can turn them into a raid boss.

    They did the same thing with Kael'thas. He was a pretty sympathetic character in WC3. Then they just turned him into a gigantic asshole so people had an excuse to raid him for phat lewtz.

    Then he goes and allies himself with the Legion? Like... he does remember who was responsible for siccing the Scourge on Quel'thalas in the first place, right?

    RT800 on
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I definitely roll my eyes every time they bring a character back from the dead just so they can turn them into a raid boss.

    inb4 we have to fight illidan a 2nd time...

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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    This time we'll fight Maiev (or whomever, and however it's spelled) with the help of Illidan.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    The reason why the blood elves are hoard and not alliance is because the Alliance burned that bridge to a crisp in WC3. The humans are the reason blood elves are even a thing. It's their Arthas that corrupted the sunwell, and when Arthas' armies were marching on silvermoon they asked the humans for help and they never delivered. And once they were corrupted, the Alliance didn't want anything to do with them.

    Also, wrathion is a dick, but he has one of the good story lines still left in the game. That and I think he's doing what is going to be best for azeroth in the long run.

    Nobody
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    Maiev
    is the one who lets the demon hunters out of prison. It's Cordana, Khadgar's pal from WoD, who has turned evil.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I definitely roll my eyes every time they bring a character back from the dead just so they can turn them into a raid boss.

    They did the same thing with Kael'thas. He was a pretty sympathetic character in WC3. Then they just turned him into a gigantic asshole so people had an excuse to raid him for phat lewtz.

    Then he goes and allies himself with the Legion? Like... he does remember who was responsible for siccing the Scourge on Quel'thalas in the first place, right?

    Not actually super positive on how many people know the Lich King's origins, especially prior to WoTLK

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Eh, people are going to scream murder when they retcon WoW to make it stick to the movie anyways.

  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    Yeah the Paladin order thing is annoying to me, especially since I have played a paladin during my entire time with WoW - nearly 10 years. To be fair though Paladins get one of the few truly sought after and recognizable artifact weapons (ashbringer) and Wrath was Paladin centric, even with DKs. Still though that story goes too far without something to balance it.

    Oh and apparently I have been a Paladin longer than I have been in any single school, job or relationship. Which is just... something.

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  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    Arthas did some pretty questionable things even before taking up Frostmourne.

    The purging of Stratholme and the burning of his men's ships in Northrend, for example.

    I'm not sure how much of that was supposed to be because he was under Ner'zhul's influence or because he was just becoming an increasingly fanatical asshole.

    But I do like the idea that Arthas was just a man driven to extremes by the horrors of war and who was ultimately just as much a victim of the Scourge as anyone else. He works much better as a tragic figure, rather than a mustache-twirling super villain.

    Before the novel it was more like he was an over zealous palidin who knew what he was doing wrong, but did it for the greater good. I liked that, it gave him layers. He was a good guy in a really shitty position. After the novel it's because the frostmourne told him to do it and it's been talking to him since forever.

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  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    There are so many things they could have done with artifacts instead of completely making up new ones. That some kind of atiesh reforged wasn't one of the mage artifacts is dumb. The skull of gul'dan really should have been something for warlocks. Maybe something weird like the phylactery of KT. Taking things that already exist seems like it would be a much greater fantasy than some unfamiliar stat stick we are stuck with for the rest of the expansion. The only ones I can think of that I've heard of before is ashrbringer, doomhammer, and the scythe of elune. Some of the feral/guardian ones at least sound kind of familiar. I think there was a really missed opportunity to make something like "Thunderstrike, Sleeping Trident of X" as the survival hunter artifact. I mean, they use tridents/polearms, are a spec and playstyle from vanilla, why not use one of the most iconic polearms from the time but make it not suck? The disc priest one should be some form of anathema/benediction since it is getting its duality back.

    I'm not a big fan of just conjuring items of supreme power from nowhere. Like what was going on when all of these things were created? If they were so powerful there probably would have been some record of "holy crap this person on the battlefield came and had some giant flaming blade with planets orbiting it and killed the front line and we all fled".

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Having an introduction quest chain rather than just being handed it is fine. New lore or new stuff about old stuff is fine. So they're not really coming out of no where. Relic of Ra-Den? Kael'Thas's sword? There are connections, its ok.

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  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    A big thing for the design with the artifact weapons was for them to NOT be weapons you've been able to attain before. Also you're kind of overblowing things a ton by that last sentence. There's only a few of the artifacts which they had to come up with completely from scratch, many are weapons wielded by heroes of old.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Digging deep into Azeroth for new weapons to face the 3rd Invasion is pretty awesome anyway.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    yeah thematically i love the idea that we're resurrecting all these ancient artifacts

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    Artifacts and whatever quests come with them are a good chance to introduce new lore stuff; if I were a paladin I think I'd be sad about just getting ashbringer again

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    LD50
  • ShinyRedKnightShinyRedKnight Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    I've started tracking some of the Suramar info coming out. Apparently it's a max level zone filled with quests that focus fully on story as opposed to gear.

    An alpha player on Youtube described how they saw this as a risky idea at first - an endgame option with no loot in an MMORPG. After playing in the zone for awhile, however, he finds it hard to do anything else in the game because it can hook you in so well with the stories the zone tells. Basically its an endgame option for people who care more about lore!

    Some key tidbits I picked up: quest objectives are less grindy as they serve to keep you engaged in the story and not to pace your progress, the zone seems HUGE with ~300 quests, and there is a single main story quest-line for the zone with additional side stories you can stumble upon.

    Honestly, I can see how this can be a risk. I really hope this succeeds and enough people find it fun. I always hated the idea of my MMO endgame experience becoming a raid for loot - loot to raid cycle, even as much as I like raiding. The idea of leveling and gearing up a character so as to engage in a big, endgame story zone fascinates me. As small of a change as it is, this is the first time any single design or idea in an MMO has truly felt refreshing to me.

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  • AngryAngry The glory I had witnessed was just a sleight of handRegistered User regular
    Thunderstrike iconic?

    Whaaaaaaaat?

    Styrofoam SammichArthil
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    If thunderstrike/shadowstrike isnt iconic to you in any way, you weren't there...

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