So I don't know if its specific to artifacts, but it seems that you eventually unlock the the ability to place Reasearch Work Orders at your class hall, that increases the amount of AP that your relic gains when using the applicable items. No one has hit the max level yet since it takes about 5 days to finish one work order, but its theorized that by the time you max it out, the bonus is pretty big, something like an extra 80%. Hopefully that turns out to be the case, since itll make levelling other relics much easier (though sources of AP kind of dry up around 110 anyway, since you get a lot of it from storyline quests.)
I dunno, I was surprised how many AP items drop off trash in dungeons that I've seen.
Gives a good reason to actually kill everything instead of skipping trash, at least.
The drop rate is okay, but the amount the items actually give is pretty negligible. Like most dungeon drops from trash give 10ap each but the amount of AP it takes to get another trait jumps like crazy a few times. Around level 12 the amount required goes from about 600 to 1600 and goes up by about 400 per level, until 20 when it doubles again.
EDIT: Most treasure chests found out in the world (of which there are many) give items that either give 5 or 20 AP each, and world drops can give anywhere from 10-250. Daily normal dungeon gives a 1 per day bonus of 25 AP, and heroic gives 50. No idea what raids give you. At level 110 I'm at about Artifact level 13, out of a possible 25 or so
The hpriest one upsets me because the active ability you get from the holy artifact is locked behind the most useless trait (Lifegrip heals for 5/10/15% of health) or you have to loop all the way around.
How are artifacts when compared to your end of the expansion weapon? Does it start at a set so that using it is a downgrade for awhile or is it "We copy the weapon you're using" kind of deal
Just got my heroic wf hfc wand to 2/2 is why i'm asking
How are artifacts when compared to your end of the expansion weapon? Does it start at a set so that using it is a downgrade for awhile or is it "We copy the weapon you're using" kind of deal
Just got my heroic wf hfc wand to 2/2 is why i'm asking
Every single artifact will instantly be better than whatever you happen to be using at the time. Each artifact weapon starts at 750 ilevel with huge dps increases and adds an ability to your hotbar.
The "training dummy" in the Demon Hunter class hall was just added this build, and it's just varying sizes of demons that are chained up and you beat the hell out of them
Speaking of which, I noticed there's something in the UI now that denotes a spec as your "primary." Changing it requires talking to a class trainer. Anyone figure out what it's for yet?
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Speaking of which, I noticed there's something in the UI now that denotes a spec as your "primary." Anyone figure out what it's for yet?
Before they made the change to remove the gold cost, one spec was your primary and it cost you nothing to switch TO that spec. The cost was only to switch to something besides your primary. So if your primary was Protection and you wanted to go Retribution, you'd pay gold to go Ret, but nothing to switch back to Prot when you were done.
And that was a very reasonable system and overall the gold cost wasn't bad at all and only affected the person switching their spec. Instead, we get to have entire raid groups worrying about keeping fat stacks of these Tomes around so people can swap to the talents they need!
And that was a very reasonable system and overall the gold cost wasn't bad at all and only affected the person switching their spec. Instead, we get to have entire raid groups worrying about keeping fat stacks of these Tomes around so people can swap to the talents they need!
I'm fine with that.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
And that was a very reasonable system and overall the gold cost wasn't bad at all and only affected the person switching their spec. Instead, we get to have entire raid groups worrying about keeping fat stacks of these Tomes around so people can swap to the talents they need!
Let's not mix up specialization swapping and talent swapping. They are similar, but unrelated and what affects one does not affect the other. The change to the talent system happened independently of the change to the spec system.
I for one don't give a crap if raid guilds have to pay for the damn tomes with unicorns. They have been charging an arm and a leg for runs through whatever, and should have the gold to buy the things at most likely very inflated prices. It's basically just putting the power to make gold back in the hands of everyone instead of just the people who have something on farm.
And that was a very reasonable system and overall the gold cost wasn't bad at all and only affected the person switching their spec. Instead, we get to have entire raid groups worrying about keeping fat stacks of these Tomes around so people can swap to the talents they need!
Let's not mix up specialization swapping and talent swapping. They are similar, but unrelated and what affects one does not affect the other. The change to the talent system happened independently of the change to the spec system.
No, no it didn't. Where are you coming up with this? At first they were going to have a gold cost to switch specs but make it where you could just do it anywhere and the price went up(the cap was like 65 gold). They changed it to this. Completely related.
And that was a very reasonable system and overall the gold cost wasn't bad at all and only affected the person switching their spec. Instead, we get to have entire raid groups worrying about keeping fat stacks of these Tomes around so people can swap to the talents they need!
Let's not mix up specialization swapping and talent swapping. They are similar, but unrelated and what affects one does not affect the other. The change to the talent system happened independently of the change to the spec system.
No, no it didn't. Where are you coming up with this? At first they were going to have a gold cost to switch specs but make it where you could just do it anywhere and the price went up(the cap was like 65 gold). They changed it to this. Completely related.
You can now switch specs anywhere for no cost. It's talents that have the cost for change now. I think you've misunderstood the change.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
And their stated reasoning for swapping talents being restricted to inns and this Tome item is because they didn't want people swapping talents so quickly that it felt mandatory. I posted their reasoning.
An area that has appeared to need a bit more friction, however, is actually talent changes. Especially with no reagent cost at all now, it can be
all too easy to activate AoE talents before larger packs of enemies in a dungeon, and then switch back to single-target talents before a lieutenant or a boss. Or someone might switch to a passive movement-speed talent when traversing an area, and then back to something functional before entering combat. At that point, we're often hardly talking about a meaningful choice at all, but rather a nuisance of extra button-presses or UI navigation before you can use your desired talents.
Their reasoning for adding a cost or restriction to swapping talents, as you can plainly read, has nothing to do with whether specializations have restrictions on when you can switch.
I for one don't give a crap if raid guilds have to pay for the damn tomes with unicorns. They have been charging an arm and a leg for runs through whatever, and should have the gold to buy the things at most likely very inflated prices. It's basically just putting the power to make gold back in the hands of everyone instead of just the people who have something on farm.
I'm not sure there's anything that says high level raiders are the ones with stashes of gold? Like my guild sells carries which seem like a lot of cash but it's divided between like 20 people. The all-day carry people are the ones with fucktons of money.
I'm not misunderstanding anything. Previously the intention was for them to make it cost gold to switch your specs, this had a reasonable gold cost which had a cap and was controlled by Blizzard(and it also reduced from the cap at an unmentioned rate). There was a silly outcry. So now it's free and instead, the 'friction' they added is to the swapping of talents. However this feels really bad because the sheer cost to create the tomes for this feature seems way out of whack. Blizzard only has a say in the matter on how much these will cost by how many mats they take, and even then that could mean nothing.
Right now they require more materials than a higher leveled Glyph to create. And according to that person I quoted, the material with the least requirements has such a slow rate of acquisition that they don't even have enough to make one tome after a week of grinding every herb they come across.
There's no relationship between those two changes beyond that they were announced at the same time. Talents and spec are unrelated in this instance, they just announced the removal of one cost and addition of another in the same post. Doesn't mean one happened because of the other.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Rereading this thread, I think there genuinely is a lot of confusion around how this stuff works so I'll clarify based on Blizzard's post.
The current implementation is as follows
Let's say you are a DPS warrior. You need to switch to Protection to tank one particular fight in a raid. You can do that with no restriction, no cost. The only limitations are the cast time and that you must be out of combat. The talents you have when you swap to Protection will be whatever talents you had set the last time you were in that spec.
The Tome and Inn restriction only applies to changing your actual talents, say if you want to swap from Shockwave to Stormbolt because you're about to do a single target fight instead of an AOE fight. In that scenario, to swap those talents, you would need the Tome, or be in a rested XP area like an inn or city.
Blizzard's stated reasoning is that they do NOT want people to be able to quickly and easily change talents on the fly in a 5man dungeon between combat, because at that point it's not a choice. If you can use the AOE talent for trash packs and swap to single target talents before every boss seamlessly, then effectively you have both talents all the time, and the only thing the talent interface is doing is adding mindless busywork.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I'm not misunderstanding anything. Previously the intention was for them to make it cost gold to switch your specs, this had a reasonable gold cost which had a cap and was controlled by Blizzard(and it also reduced from the cap at an unmentioned rate). There was a silly outcry. So now it's free and instead, the 'friction' they added is to the swapping of talents. However this feels really bad because the sheer cost to create the tomes for this feature seems way out of whack. Blizzard only has a say in the matter on how much these will cost by how many mats they take, and even then that could mean nothing.
Right now they require more materials than a higher leveled Glyph to create. And according to that person I quoted, the material with the least requirements has such a slow rate of acquisition that they don't even have enough to make one tome after a week of grinding every herb they come across.
The change to talents had nothing to do with the removal of spec swap. Their reasoning for adding the cost to swapping talents is valid whether or not spec swapping is free or not. So don't try to claim that the talent cost was added because of the spec cost removal, because that's a baseless argument.
Yes, you're right, it's way more difficult to swap talents now, and if you want to be swapping talents between fights in a 5man dungeon you're probably going to be spending a fortune on them.
That is the whole point.
Being able to change to AOE talents for trash packs and then easily swap to single target for the bosses isn't a fun choice or a skill. It's mindless busywork.
Evaluating the overall contents of a dungeon before you start and selecting the talents based on whether the trash or the bosses are more dangerous...that's a much more interesting choice.
As I said before the only people that really NEED to be switching talents that often are high-end raiding guilds, which are a very small percentage of the total population. They are going to spend all week before Raid Night farming potions and flasks anyway. Now they just need to farm this too.
AND it gives herbalists and scribes an extra way to make money, which is great considering they removed glyphs.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
My argument is it's a bad change and I personally don't see it surviving beta.
Why is it a bad change? you've not actually offered any reasoning.
"It's too expensive" is not a reason to be against the change, because the real change is that Blizzard decided to make it impractical to swap talents outside of a city/inn, and provided an option to raid groups for min-maxing before raid boss encounters. They don't intend you to be swapping talents on the fly during 5man dungeons or while out questing, and this Tome cost does a very good job of restricting that.
If you disagree with their stated goal, that's the part I want to have a discussion about, because I think it's a great goal. Changing talents between trash packs in a 5man is dumb.
My only gripe so far is that there are hardly any resting areas at all in the Broken Isles. Maybe they just haven't enabled some of them, but none of the flight paths or staging areas out int he zones actually have an inn where you gain rested. The only places are Dalaran and your Order Hall. If they went back and added the rested buff to anywhere you can set your hearth, I'd probably be more in favor of the change. As it stands now, if you want to change talents, it involves a not insubstantial amount of travel time.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
My only gripe so far is that there are hardly any resting areas at all in the Broken Isles. Maybe they just haven't enabled some of them, but none of the flight paths or staging areas out int he zones actually have an inn where you gain rested. The only places are Dalaran and your Order Hall. If they went back and added the rested buff to anywhere you can set your hearth, I'd probably be more in favor of the change. As it stands now, if you want to change talents, it involves a not insubstantial amount of travel time.
That's a bit weird, normally almost all flight path locations have a rested buff. Maybe that's a bug?
My only gripe so far is that there are hardly any resting areas at all in the Broken Isles. Maybe they just haven't enabled some of them, but none of the flight paths or staging areas out int he zones actually have an inn where you gain rested. The only places are Dalaran and your Order Hall. If they went back and added the rested buff to anywhere you can set your hearth, I'd probably be more in favor of the change. As it stands now, if you want to change talents, it involves a not insubstantial amount of travel time.
That's a bit weird, normally almost all flight path locations have a rested buff. Maybe that's a bug?
Most flight path locations don't even have an inn, actually. And not even all of them have a repair vendor. Or guards. The majority of the flight paths have a flight master, and an NPC who either begins or ends a breadcrumb quest, and that's it. The outposts are incredibly sparse this time around.
It may be a bug, since there's at least one legit town in Highmountain you would expect to have a rested buff, but right now it doesn't.
Major spoilers for a quest that was added in today:
There's a new green jesus! And his name is Illidan Stormrage. You get a quest to talk to some hotshot Naaru who says something about "a child of light and dark who is destined to bring about the end of the demons" and calls out Illidan by name.
Posts
That took years!
Sounds like a feat of strength.
Gives a good reason to actually kill everything instead of skipping trash, at least.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
The drop rate is okay, but the amount the items actually give is pretty negligible. Like most dungeon drops from trash give 10ap each but the amount of AP it takes to get another trait jumps like crazy a few times. Around level 12 the amount required goes from about 600 to 1600 and goes up by about 400 per level, until 20 when it doubles again.
EDIT: Most treasure chests found out in the world (of which there are many) give items that either give 5 or 20 AP each, and world drops can give anywhere from 10-250. Daily normal dungeon gives a 1 per day bonus of 25 AP, and heroic gives 50. No idea what raids give you. At level 110 I'm at about Artifact level 13, out of a possible 25 or so
I'm not surprised. This was the same back in BC, but they made you level up blacksmith to get it and then they put it behind a raiding PVE wall.
Just got my heroic wf hfc wand to 2/2 is why i'm asking
Every single artifact will instantly be better than whatever you happen to be using at the time. Each artifact weapon starts at 750 ilevel with huge dps increases and adds an ability to your hotbar.
If it weren't for the active on the mistweaver one though, my current one would still edge it out :P got dat 751 weapon.
EDIT: Oh wait, forgot about the first rank passive.
The "training dummy" in the Demon Hunter class hall was just added this build, and it's just varying sizes of demons that are chained up and you beat the hell out of them
Unless you've got so much of the pigments they're oozing out of your backpack, that seems expensive! :B
Edit: For emphasis a quote from someone elsewhere.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Before they made the change to remove the gold cost, one spec was your primary and it cost you nothing to switch TO that spec. The cost was only to switch to something besides your primary. So if your primary was Protection and you wanted to go Retribution, you'd pay gold to go Ret, but nothing to switch back to Prot when you were done.
I'm fine with that.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
No, no it didn't. Where are you coming up with this? At first they were going to have a gold cost to switch specs but make it where you could just do it anywhere and the price went up(the cap was like 65 gold). They changed it to this. Completely related.
You can now switch specs anywhere for no cost. It's talents that have the cost for change now. I think you've misunderstood the change.
Their reasoning for adding a cost or restriction to swapping talents, as you can plainly read, has nothing to do with whether specializations have restrictions on when you can switch.
I'm not sure there's anything that says high level raiders are the ones with stashes of gold? Like my guild sells carries which seem like a lot of cash but it's divided between like 20 people. The all-day carry people are the ones with fucktons of money.
Right now they require more materials than a higher leveled Glyph to create. And according to that person I quoted, the material with the least requirements has such a slow rate of acquisition that they don't even have enough to make one tome after a week of grinding every herb they come across.
The current implementation is as follows
Let's say you are a DPS warrior. You need to switch to Protection to tank one particular fight in a raid. You can do that with no restriction, no cost. The only limitations are the cast time and that you must be out of combat. The talents you have when you swap to Protection will be whatever talents you had set the last time you were in that spec.
The Tome and Inn restriction only applies to changing your actual talents, say if you want to swap from Shockwave to Stormbolt because you're about to do a single target fight instead of an AOE fight. In that scenario, to swap those talents, you would need the Tome, or be in a rested XP area like an inn or city.
Blizzard's stated reasoning is that they do NOT want people to be able to quickly and easily change talents on the fly in a 5man dungeon between combat, because at that point it's not a choice. If you can use the AOE talent for trash packs and swap to single target talents before every boss seamlessly, then effectively you have both talents all the time, and the only thing the talent interface is doing is adding mindless busywork.
The change to talents had nothing to do with the removal of spec swap. Their reasoning for adding the cost to swapping talents is valid whether or not spec swapping is free or not. So don't try to claim that the talent cost was added because of the spec cost removal, because that's a baseless argument.
Yes, you're right, it's way more difficult to swap talents now, and if you want to be swapping talents between fights in a 5man dungeon you're probably going to be spending a fortune on them.
That is the whole point.
Being able to change to AOE talents for trash packs and then easily swap to single target for the bosses isn't a fun choice or a skill. It's mindless busywork.
Evaluating the overall contents of a dungeon before you start and selecting the talents based on whether the trash or the bosses are more dangerous...that's a much more interesting choice.
Restrictions are what makes games fun.
AND it gives herbalists and scribes an extra way to make money, which is great considering they removed glyphs.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Why is it a bad change? you've not actually offered any reasoning.
"It's too expensive" is not a reason to be against the change, because the real change is that Blizzard decided to make it impractical to swap talents outside of a city/inn, and provided an option to raid groups for min-maxing before raid boss encounters. They don't intend you to be swapping talents on the fly during 5man dungeons or while out questing, and this Tome cost does a very good job of restricting that.
If you disagree with their stated goal, that's the part I want to have a discussion about, because I think it's a great goal. Changing talents between trash packs in a 5man is dumb.
That's a bit weird, normally almost all flight path locations have a rested buff. Maybe that's a bug?
Most flight path locations don't even have an inn, actually. And not even all of them have a repair vendor. Or guards. The majority of the flight paths have a flight master, and an NPC who either begins or ends a breadcrumb quest, and that's it. The outposts are incredibly sparse this time around.
It may be a bug, since there's at least one legit town in Highmountain you would expect to have a rested buff, but right now it doesn't.