Major spoilers for a quest that was added in today:
There's a new green jesus! And his name is Illidan Stormrage. You get a quest to talk to some hotshot Naaru who says something about "a child of light and dark who is destined to bring about the end of the demons" and calls out Illidan by name.
Major spoilers for a quest that was added in today:
There's a new green jesus! And his name is Illidan Stormrage. You get a quest to talk to some hotshot Naaru who says something about "a child of light and dark who is destined to bring about the end of the demons" and calls out Illidan by name.
Oh my god damn it.
Please refer back to my post about Blizzard being physically incapable of taking it down a notch.
I LIKE Illidan and this still made me groan and put my head in my hands.
Major spoilers for a quest that was added in today:
There's a new green jesus! And his name is Illidan Stormrage. You get a quest to talk to some hotshot Naaru who says something about "a child of light and dark who is destined to bring about the end of the demons" and calls out Illidan by name.
One might say...
We were not prepared for this.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Rolling my eyes so hard that they're liable to pop out of my head and roll off into the sunset to have amazing life affirming adventures.
+1
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
Why they hell are they making talents like the final tier of destro warlock in the current alpha? One is a 2 target cleave ability, one is a massive aoe ability, and one is a single target dps increase. That is exactly the kind of talent you need to change from fight to fight because each one represents a massive increase to dps in mutually exclusive situations.
+1
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
Why they hell are they making talents like the final tier of destro warlock in the current alpha? One is a 2 target cleave ability, one is a massive aoe ability, and one is a single target dps increase. That is exactly the kind of talent you need to change from fight to fight because each one represents a massive increase to dps in mutually exclusive situations.
They want you to specialize.
+1
SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
Is there any site I can go to show all the big changes for Legion? I'm pretty much in the dark at the moment. I think I last paid close attention when they announced Legion. I don't know what playing my mage will be like now.
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
Why they hell are they making talents like the final tier of destro warlock in the current alpha? One is a 2 target cleave ability, one is a massive aoe ability, and one is a single target dps increase. That is exactly the kind of talent you need to change from fight to fight because each one represents a massive increase to dps in mutually exclusive situations.
Well, then I refer you to the last sentence :bzz:
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Is there any site I can go to show all the big changes for Legion? I'm pretty much in the dark at the moment. I think I last paid close attention when they announced Legion. I don't know what playing my mage will be like now.
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
This is definitely not true. They absolutely want talents to be a meaningful choice that changes based on situation.
They just want there to be at least some friction, otherwise talents just become busywork.
I'm going to be honest, I don't even know what their mission statement for talents is anymore. At some point they said they wanted it to be a decision for playstyle rather than performance, but that obviously isn't the case, anymore. Their answer seems to change depending on who you ask.
+7
SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
Is there any site I can go to show all the big changes for Legion? I'm pretty much in the dark at the moment. I think I last paid close attention when they announced Legion. I don't know what playing my mage will be like now.
I'm going to be honest, I don't even know what their mission statement for talents is anymore. At some point they said they wanted it to be a decision for playstyle rather than performance, but that obviously isn't the case, anymore. Their answer seems to change depending on who you ask.
Yeah, they're trying to bend the talent system to meet multiple goals, and sometimes those goals just don't mesh well.
They want to reduce ability bloat. They want 'select-a-difficulty' rotations. They want meaningful choices. They want the sub-optimal choices to still be viable.
Sometimes they do a good job. On destro for instance: There is a tier where you can basically select what kind of pet management you want. It's great. Do you like pets? Here's a talent that buffs them and makes their abilities stronger. Do you not like pets so much? Here's a talent that basically makes them into a 1.5 minute CD. Do you not like pets at all? Here's a talent that removes them and buffs you to make up for the dps loss.
There is also a tier for emergency situations that is designed well. Do you want a CC ability that you have to manage, or would you rather just have some DR? Would you be more comfortable with a mix between the two?
They're great. They have meaningful gameplay choices, with choices that add or remove ability management. All the choices are viable, and many of them have flavor. There's some cases where you might get shoehorned into one over the other (an aoe stun might be something that your raid requires you to take), but it's the kind of thing that's only going to be applicable for specific fights.
Then there's the final tier that I mentioned.
It's awful. Only one of the talents is going to be good for a specific fight, and it's the kind of thing that's going to need to change all the time. Not just for mythic raiders either. The easier difficulties like heroic (and likely the new dungeon modes) are tuned tightly enough that taking the sub-optimal talent is not going to be ok. It doesn't reduce ability bloat either. Just because a player won't be able to have all the talents at the same time doesn't mean that they won't need to know about all the abilities, how to use them, and have places for them on their bars. It actually makes the situation worse because the base UI doesn't accommodate losing and gaining abilities due to talent switching very well.
So. What's stopping me from having Enh Single Target as my main spec and Enh AOE as my secondary spec, and swapping them in a 5man for trash and bosses? Because if that's the case, then -- while niche to DPS -- I've negated all the friction they were trying to create.
So. What's stopping me from having Enh Single Target as my main spec and Enh AOE as my secondary spec, and swapping them in a 5man for trash and bosses? Because if that's the case, then -- while niche to DPS -- I've negated all the friction they were trying to create.
They've removed dual spec.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Some of the talents are just not that balanced even within themselves.
Take the level 100 tier for Protection Paladins.
Righteous Protector
Requires Paladin (Protection)
Requires level 100
Shield of the Righteous reduces the remaining cooldown on Light of the Protector by 3 sec.
Seraphim Level 110
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Requires Paladin (Protection)
Requires level 100
The Light temporarily magnifies your power, increasing your Haste, Critical Strike, Mastery, and Versatility by 0.
Consumes up to 2 charges of Shield of the Righteous, and lasts 8 sec per charge.
Final Stand Talent
Requires Paladin (Protection)
Requires level 100
Reduces the cooldown of Divine Shield by 50%, and when you use Divine Shield, you also taunt all targets within 15 yards for 8 sec.
Final Stand is obviously far more powerful than the others - it turns bubble into a 2.5min cooldown, and allows you to use it while keeping aggro. WHAT? That's basically a 100% damage reduction, for 8 seconds, on a 2.5min cooldown? How the hell is that balanced with the other two?
Especially Righteous Protector! Light of the Protector is our self heal, heals for 25% of our missing health. It's only a 15 second cooldown, it's not really that valuable to have it a bit more often, especially not when compared to fucking invincibility.
Seraphim is a little bit closer, as it gives about 5k of each of those stats. But 2 charges of ShoR is a lot, and it's mostly a DPS talent. Great to take and have, but Final Stand is just the clear winner.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
So. What's stopping me from having Enh Single Target as my main spec and Enh AOE as my secondary spec, and swapping them in a 5man for trash and bosses? Because if that's the case, then -- while niche to DPS -- I've negated all the friction they were trying to create.
They've removed dual spec.
Wait, dual spec allows you to have the same spec in both of your spec slots? On live, I mean?
Dhalphir on
+1
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
So. What's stopping me from having Enh Single Target as my main spec and Enh AOE as my secondary spec, and swapping them in a 5man for trash and bosses? Because if that's the case, then -- while niche to DPS -- I've negated all the friction they were trying to create.
There's no such thing as a primary and a secondary spec, you can just swap to whatever specialization you want at any time.
It actually makes the situation worse because the base UI doesn't accommodate losing and gaining abilities due to talent switching very well.
I'm pretty sure that it puts a placeholder ability on your bars for talents that have 3 ability options. I know that when I switch from Barrage to Glaive Toss, on my hunter, for example, Glaive Toss and Barrage share an ability slot on my bars automatically without me having to do anything.
It actually makes the situation worse because the base UI doesn't accommodate losing and gaining abilities due to talent switching very well.
I'm pretty sure that it puts a placeholder ability on your bars for talents that have 3 ability options. I know that when I switch from Barrage to Glaive Toss, on my hunter, for example, Glaive Toss and Barrage share an ability slot on my bars automatically without me having to do anything.
It will handle switching gracefully if it's done by swapping from one spec to another, but it doesn't handle it well when you're just switching talents using tomes (or at least it doesn't in all cases). I know that as recently as two months ago I was helping a friend deal with making their bars resistant to talent switching problems with some macros. Do you have any kind of UI addon like bartender or elvui that might be handling that for you?
So. What's stopping me from having Enh Single Target as my main spec and Enh AOE as my secondary spec, and swapping them in a 5man for trash and bosses? Because if that's the case, then -- while niche to DPS -- I've negated all the friction they were trying to create.
They've removed dual spec.
Wait, dual spec allows you to have the same spec in both of your spec slots? On live, I mean?
Yep. I've had two different resto specs on my shaman (one for pvp and one for pve) for a long long time.
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Yeah. I would much rather have a spec where every ability is tightly integrated into it's playstyle. Especially compared to the slapdash situation we're in now, where a lot of the talents feel really clunky when you try to actually use them. Any complaints that a given talent has problems leads to the prebaked response of "maybe that talent just isn't for you; there's two other talents to chose from on that tier" from the devs.
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
This is definitely not true. They absolutely want talents to be a meaningful choice that changes based on situation.
They just want there to be at least some friction, otherwise talents just become busywork.
This doesn't align with their implementation, though; what they've done is create more busywork.
Nobody's going to change up their fight strategy or arena comp or whatever on the basis of it being more of a hassle to change talents; you'll just deal with whatever it takes to change them. You aren't going to have situations where one person is 'the single target mage' or 'the aoe mage' an raid, especially in smaller groups. And lord forbid you want to try out a different talent while doing dailies or w/e.
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
This is definitely not true. They absolutely want talents to be a meaningful choice that changes based on situation.
They just want there to be at least some friction, otherwise talents just become busywork.
This doesn't align with their implementation, though; what they've done is create more busywork.
Nobody's going to change up their fight strategy or arena comp or whatever on the basis of it being more of a hassle to change talents; you'll just deal with whatever it takes to change them. You aren't going to have situations where one person is 'the single target mage' or 'the aoe mage' an raid, especially in smaller groups. And lord forbid you want to try out a different talent while doing dailies or w/e.
And for the talent tiers like the 'aoe-type' choices, wouldn't it be more engaging to be making the choice of 'what kind of aoe abilities should I be using' while you are fighting?
The problem with talents or, really, any player choice is that humans are going to pick the path of least resistance and once you "solve" a talent tier then choice ceases to exist. This can fixed by keeping talents competitive but focusing on a change in playstyle. This can best be seen with talents such as Lone Wolf for hunters or Clarity of Power for Shadow Priests, where people who are tired of pet management or dot rotations have alternatives. They may do slightly less damage, but it's something they enjoy doing and they'd likely do more damage with a build they like than one they hate (not to mention avoiding things like burnout).
Like let's look at level 90 for Shadow
Power Infusion: Damage Boost
Mindbender: Single target
Shadowcrash: AoE
There's not much "choice" here, I'm going to look at the encounter and make my talent decision upon that. Does the boss have specific burn periods of vulnerability? Probably power infusion. Is there AoE? Crash then. And, assuming it's the highest dps, Mindbender for all other fights. So...what am I choosing here? How does this customize my character for my playstyle? I may love Shadow Crash, but on a single target fight the spell is useless, so...again I ask what is the point of these talents?
"Friction" only works when the choice is a personal one that you want to commit to and learn. Friction feels like a needless burden when I feel forced to shuffle talents for every encounter because certain talents are just objectively better for that fight. They need either talents 3.0 or to just axe the whole thing already.
That's really the crux of my annoyance regarding these Tomes. Not every spec has to deal with this but many do. In fact, from what I hear with Ret Pallies if they don't have the right talents chosen in each tier for a certain type of encounter(single target, cleave, aoe) then they don't just do sub-par damage they barely do any at all. And other specs have the misfortune of their own viable interrupt being a talent among two other useful ones.
Major spoilers for a quest that was added in today:
There's a new green jesus! And his name is Illidan Stormrage. You get a quest to talk to some hotshot Naaru who says something about "a child of light and dark who is destined to bring about the end of the demons" and calls out Illidan by name.
Oh my god damn it.
Please refer back to my post about Blizzard being physically incapable of taking it down a notch.
I LIKE Illidan and this still made me groan and put my head in my hands.
Well it at least is an in game info about stuff that happened in the prelude novel illidan. Unlike WOD where nothing really in the story made any sense with garrosh unless you read the book and nothing really referenced how he got free in the first place or what the hell was going on in game.
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
This is definitely not true. They absolutely want talents to be a meaningful choice that changes based on situation.
They just want there to be at least some friction, otherwise talents just become busywork.
Pretty much this if there is no cost or time then people just re-adjust talents before every fight. That was never really their intention. Your talent choices are to focus the way you play this means you may be really good in aoe situations but less good at a pure single target fight. That is working as intended.
0
Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
I think a lot of the anger about the talents thing is based on how you played the game in WOD (and maybe MOP but I wasn't around for that)
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
This is definitely not true. They absolutely want talents to be a meaningful choice that changes based on situation.
They just want there to be at least some friction, otherwise talents just become busywork.
That is the opposite of what I remember seeing when Legion was announced.
If that is the case I submit to the opinion they don't know what they want from them anymore. I did see lots of examples of what I explained though when looking through the talents when first found in alpha. That might have changed though?
The general theme I saw was like one talent was a pure passive buff, one altered a skill in a way to make it play different but be better if done right, and one was an entirely new skill that was an improvement overall for the rotation (usually close to the passive buff).
Of course they didn't do this at EVERY tier.
If it is like you say, then they need to balance things in a such a way that someone can pick the best overall talent build and succeed. Like the "jack of all trades" of talents. And I highly doubt that will be done right. At least beyond the first raid.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
As far as getting rid of talents, if you get rid of choice you make a boring game. There needs to be some level of bad choices available for people who dont care if they are the best of the best. It doesn't need to be said yet again that the whole playerbase isn't a hardcore raider, and a large sum of the playerbase isn't going to care if they build perfect.
Of course, that doesn't mean allow ways to build significantly inferior.
Talents are basically going to be the last thing anyone has any choice over. If people need an MMO with no choices whatsoever, FF14 is doing a superb job of that kind of game.
Yeah, WoW just doesn't really work in an "I'm Jimmy and I'm gonna be an AoE Mage! " sort of fashion. Back in vanilla, it was a bit of a pain in the ass cause the cost to respec just went up and up and gold wasn't an easy commodity back then.
The way I view things is that when you do LFG people expect you to be able to manage things. You can be a good player, but if you're suddenly unable to just swap out to your only interrupt/aoe ability in the middle of the dungeon then you're suddenly not as useful. This is going to be the biggest pain in the ass for tanks.
Forcing people to pick a specialization (aoe, single target, utility) while being inconvenient to switch on the fly is 100% working as intended. They dont want people macroing switching talents while out of combat in between pulls. Think how batshit crazy that would be in pvp with say rogues who could blow cooldowns and then vanish and switch talents. Forcing people to make macros to switch talents on the fly goes against the philosophy of making the game accessible to everyone.
AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
Rogues can't do that now. Talents are locked once a Bg starts and if out in the world changing talents takes you out of stealth. You also can't change talents that are on cooldown.
won't need to know about all the abilities, how to use them, and have places for them on their bars. It actually makes the situation worse because the base UI doesn't accommodate losing and gaining abilities due to talent switching very well.
There is a macro you can set up where one bar button uses whichever of the 3 abilities you have from a particular tier, I've been using it since MoP. For example, for me, the same button does both Shadowstep and Burst of Speed, depending on what i happen to have talented.
No one ever talked about macros so please don't put words in my mouth. Takes all of a second to open the talent window and switch once out of combat.
You didn't bring it up, someone else did earlier in the thread. People would totally expect automation of switching between talents. No one wants to run around with the giant talent window taking up half their screen. Mods or macros would be made to help automate it.
Forcing people to pick a specialization (aoe, single target, utility) while being inconvenient to switch on the fly is 100% working as intended. They dont want people macroing switching talents while out of combat in between pulls. Think how batshit crazy that would be in pvp with say rogues who could blow cooldowns and then vanish and switch talents. Forcing people to make macros to switch talents on the fly goes against the philosophy of making the game accessible to everyone.
You can't do this today. If you have a talent on cooldown it won't let you swap to another one on same tier.
I know that you cant switch crap on cooldown. I was watching someone on twitch who WAS abusing the switching on the fly to use more abilities than he should have been able to. Switching on the fly is terrible. Pick your poison and play your content. Introducing tedious min/maxing isn't compelling gameplay.
Posts
yeah this came up in the novel
it was very Oh Boy Here We Go
Oh my god damn it.
Please refer back to my post about Blizzard being physically incapable of taking it down a notch.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
One might say...
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
The GOAL is to make it so you don't need to have specific talents for each and every fight. If done right, this shouldn't be a big deal for anyone other than mythic raiders who want world firsts. Even then the need should be minimal.
Of course, they also wanted raids to not hate melee in WOD too and healing to be more about decision making and less about mana every expansion. If they can meet the goal with talents is another story entirely.
Why they hell are they making talents like the final tier of destro warlock in the current alpha? One is a 2 target cleave ability, one is a massive aoe ability, and one is a single target dps increase. That is exactly the kind of talent you need to change from fight to fight because each one represents a massive increase to dps in mutually exclusive situations.
They want you to specialize.
Well, then I refer you to the last sentence :bzz:
http://www.wowhead.com/legion
This is definitely not true. They absolutely want talents to be a meaningful choice that changes based on situation.
They just want there to be at least some friction, otherwise talents just become busywork.
This is exactly what I wanted. Thanks!
Yeah, they're trying to bend the talent system to meet multiple goals, and sometimes those goals just don't mesh well.
They want to reduce ability bloat. They want 'select-a-difficulty' rotations. They want meaningful choices. They want the sub-optimal choices to still be viable.
Sometimes they do a good job. On destro for instance: There is a tier where you can basically select what kind of pet management you want. It's great. Do you like pets? Here's a talent that buffs them and makes their abilities stronger. Do you not like pets so much? Here's a talent that basically makes them into a 1.5 minute CD. Do you not like pets at all? Here's a talent that removes them and buffs you to make up for the dps loss.
There is also a tier for emergency situations that is designed well. Do you want a CC ability that you have to manage, or would you rather just have some DR? Would you be more comfortable with a mix between the two?
They're great. They have meaningful gameplay choices, with choices that add or remove ability management. All the choices are viable, and many of them have flavor. There's some cases where you might get shoehorned into one over the other (an aoe stun might be something that your raid requires you to take), but it's the kind of thing that's only going to be applicable for specific fights.
Then there's the final tier that I mentioned.
It's awful. Only one of the talents is going to be good for a specific fight, and it's the kind of thing that's going to need to change all the time. Not just for mythic raiders either. The easier difficulties like heroic (and likely the new dungeon modes) are tuned tightly enough that taking the sub-optimal talent is not going to be ok. It doesn't reduce ability bloat either. Just because a player won't be able to have all the talents at the same time doesn't mean that they won't need to know about all the abilities, how to use them, and have places for them on their bars. It actually makes the situation worse because the base UI doesn't accommodate losing and gaining abilities due to talent switching very well.
They've removed dual spec.
Take the level 100 tier for Protection Paladins.
Righteous Protector
Requires Paladin (Protection)
Requires level 100
Shield of the Righteous reduces the remaining cooldown on Light of the Protector by 3 sec.
Seraphim Level 110
Instant 30 sec cooldown
Requires Paladin (Protection)
Requires level 100
The Light temporarily magnifies your power, increasing your Haste, Critical Strike, Mastery, and Versatility by 0.
Consumes up to 2 charges of Shield of the Righteous, and lasts 8 sec per charge.
Final Stand Talent
Requires Paladin (Protection)
Requires level 100
Reduces the cooldown of Divine Shield by 50%, and when you use Divine Shield, you also taunt all targets within 15 yards for 8 sec.
Final Stand is obviously far more powerful than the others - it turns bubble into a 2.5min cooldown, and allows you to use it while keeping aggro. WHAT? That's basically a 100% damage reduction, for 8 seconds, on a 2.5min cooldown? How the hell is that balanced with the other two?
Especially Righteous Protector! Light of the Protector is our self heal, heals for 25% of our missing health. It's only a 15 second cooldown, it's not really that valuable to have it a bit more often, especially not when compared to fucking invincibility.
Seraphim is a little bit closer, as it gives about 5k of each of those stats. But 2 charges of ShoR is a lot, and it's mostly a DPS talent. Great to take and have, but Final Stand is just the clear winner.
Wait, dual spec allows you to have the same spec in both of your spec slots? On live, I mean?
There's no such thing as a primary and a secondary spec, you can just swap to whatever specialization you want at any time.
I'm pretty sure that it puts a placeholder ability on your bars for talents that have 3 ability options. I know that when I switch from Barrage to Glaive Toss, on my hunter, for example, Glaive Toss and Barrage share an ability slot on my bars automatically without me having to do anything.
It will handle switching gracefully if it's done by swapping from one spec to another, but it doesn't handle it well when you're just switching talents using tomes (or at least it doesn't in all cases). I know that as recently as two months ago I was helping a friend deal with making their bars resistant to talent switching problems with some macros. Do you have any kind of UI addon like bartender or elvui that might be handling that for you?
Yep. I've had two different resto specs on my shaman (one for pvp and one for pve) for a long long time.
It never even occurred to me to try this.
Yeah. I would much rather have a spec where every ability is tightly integrated into it's playstyle. Especially compared to the slapdash situation we're in now, where a lot of the talents feel really clunky when you try to actually use them. Any complaints that a given talent has problems leads to the prebaked response of "maybe that talent just isn't for you; there's two other talents to chose from on that tier" from the devs.
This doesn't align with their implementation, though; what they've done is create more busywork.
Nobody's going to change up their fight strategy or arena comp or whatever on the basis of it being more of a hassle to change talents; you'll just deal with whatever it takes to change them. You aren't going to have situations where one person is 'the single target mage' or 'the aoe mage' an raid, especially in smaller groups. And lord forbid you want to try out a different talent while doing dailies or w/e.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
And for the talent tiers like the 'aoe-type' choices, wouldn't it be more engaging to be making the choice of 'what kind of aoe abilities should I be using' while you are fighting?
Like let's look at level 90 for Shadow
Power Infusion: Damage Boost
Mindbender: Single target
Shadowcrash: AoE
There's not much "choice" here, I'm going to look at the encounter and make my talent decision upon that. Does the boss have specific burn periods of vulnerability? Probably power infusion. Is there AoE? Crash then. And, assuming it's the highest dps, Mindbender for all other fights. So...what am I choosing here? How does this customize my character for my playstyle? I may love Shadow Crash, but on a single target fight the spell is useless, so...again I ask what is the point of these talents?
"Friction" only works when the choice is a personal one that you want to commit to and learn. Friction feels like a needless burden when I feel forced to shuffle talents for every encounter because certain talents are just objectively better for that fight. They need either talents 3.0 or to just axe the whole thing already.
Well it at least is an in game info about stuff that happened in the prelude novel illidan. Unlike WOD where nothing really in the story made any sense with garrosh unless you read the book and nothing really referenced how he got free in the first place or what the hell was going on in game.
Pretty much this if there is no cost or time then people just re-adjust talents before every fight. That was never really their intention. Your talent choices are to focus the way you play this means you may be really good in aoe situations but less good at a pure single target fight. That is working as intended.
That is the opposite of what I remember seeing when Legion was announced.
If that is the case I submit to the opinion they don't know what they want from them anymore. I did see lots of examples of what I explained though when looking through the talents when first found in alpha. That might have changed though?
The general theme I saw was like one talent was a pure passive buff, one altered a skill in a way to make it play different but be better if done right, and one was an entirely new skill that was an improvement overall for the rotation (usually close to the passive buff).
Of course they didn't do this at EVERY tier.
If it is like you say, then they need to balance things in a such a way that someone can pick the best overall talent build and succeed. Like the "jack of all trades" of talents. And I highly doubt that will be done right. At least beyond the first raid.
Of course, that doesn't mean allow ways to build significantly inferior.
Talents are basically going to be the last thing anyone has any choice over. If people need an MMO with no choices whatsoever, FF14 is doing a superb job of that kind of game.
The way I view things is that when you do LFG people expect you to be able to manage things. You can be a good player, but if you're suddenly unable to just swap out to your only interrupt/aoe ability in the middle of the dungeon then you're suddenly not as useful. This is going to be the biggest pain in the ass for tanks.
I don't expect anyone in lfr/lfg to be able to tie their own shoe. Forcing those people to have on the fly macros is not good design.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
There is a macro you can set up where one bar button uses whichever of the 3 abilities you have from a particular tier, I've been using it since MoP. For example, for me, the same button does both Shadowstep and Burst of Speed, depending on what i happen to have talented.
Priest example
You didn't bring it up, someone else did earlier in the thread. People would totally expect automation of switching between talents. No one wants to run around with the giant talent window taking up half their screen. Mods or macros would be made to help automate it.
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595
Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004484595