As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[WoW]: The portal's always greener on the fel side.

1679111297

Posts

  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    People didn't like the BRD style back in Vanilla. Groups would piss and moan about what oath to take, because your Druid wants to get his key but this guy needs to do Onyxia attunement or only two people want to even bother with Emperor. The problem with nonlinear dungeons is that it creates a lot of conflict in pugs. It also means LFD would have to die because Jane Nofreetime has different expectations than Johnny Poopsock who intends to take 90 minutes to clear out the whole place. This doesn't even get into the resources for art, boss design, and so on that something like BRD takes. I believe devs said that it was on par with building a capital city.

    Basically whoever wrote that fails to understand that even ten-year-olds playing WoW in 2004 are now twenty-year-olds with jobs, classes, and increasing responsibilities. The game has grown up with its players, and besides that I'm not getting misty-eyed over blackrock fucking depths. It sucked and I'm glad it's dead.

    EDIT: The clincher? The most popular dungeon in Vanilla: Scarlet Monastery. Originally intended to be one massive dungeon, it was chopped up into linear wings to be ready in time for launch. The appeal of SM would serve as the template for dungeons in TBC and basically all future expansions. The writer doesn't have a clue.

    There is even a newer example of this. Xeri' in the Everbloom. No one ever kills the spider, because it isn't needed to finish the dungeon.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    It's also an awful boss that takes longer to activate than it does to kill. That certainly doesn't help.

  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Because instead of the final raid tier difficulty overlapping with the majority of the questing gear, the questing gear starts at the high end of mythic. So you start out leveling in Legion with 735s being dropped and just go up from there instead of starting out at like 650 and ending up at 740 at level 110.
    I'm super confused about your objection. As I outlined in my last post, the squish wouldn't affect the latest expansion so your WoD raid gear would still be leagues ahead of the levelling gear. Is there something I'm missing or are you just ignoring that fact?

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    stuff like the ring or the MoP cloaks really can't exist outside of the few raids designed with it specifically in mind

    the ring for example already breaks a lot of HFC encounters by letting you bypass mechanics in ways that (imo) cannot have been intentional. The general strategy for mythic iskar uses the ring to negate the mythic mechanic completely, nevermind the kind of silly stuff people do on tyrant or iron reaver.

    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2016
    stuff like the ring or the MoP cloaks really can't exist outside of the few raids designed with it specifically in mind

    the ring for example already breaks a lot of HFC encounters by letting you bypass mechanics in ways that (imo) cannot have been intentional. The general strategy for mythic iskar uses the ring to negate the mythic mechanic completely, nevermind the kind of silly stuff people do on tyrant or iron reaver.

    Oh yeah, if I was designing the legendaries I would lean more towards the staff than the ring. Make them good items, with cosmetic special effects that you can only get with them. I actually really dislike the ring mechanics, because its not even something I ever interacted with. Someone else on the team was responsible for their usage and it just happened to affect me as well.

    Stats people get an item they don't have to worry about replacing, it just auto scales up. The casuals get something cool like being able to shapeshift into a dragon or a special transmog.

    e:
    If designing this from the start, you would probably also want to limit the ability to equip them to only a few at a time, so people didn't end up in all legendary gear.

    Morkath on
  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    People didn't like the BRD style back in Vanilla. Groups would piss and moan about what oath to take, because your Druid wants to get his key but this guy needs to do Onyxia attunement or only two people want to even bother with Emperor. The problem with nonlinear dungeons is that it creates a lot of conflict in pugs. It also means LFD would have to die because Jane Nofreetime has different expectations than Johnny Poopsock who intends to take 90 minutes to clear out the whole place. This doesn't even get into the resources for art, boss design, and so on that something like BRD takes. I believe devs said that it was on par with building a capital city.

    Basically whoever wrote that fails to understand that even ten-year-olds playing WoW in 2004 are now twenty-year-olds with jobs, classes, and increasing responsibilities. The game has grown up with its players, and besides that I'm not getting misty-eyed over blackrock fucking depths. It sucked and I'm glad it's dead.

    EDIT: The clincher? The most popular dungeon in Vanilla: Scarlet Monastery. Originally intended to be one massive dungeon, it was chopped up into linear wings to be ready in time for launch. The appeal of SM would serve as the template for dungeons in TBC and basically all future expansions. The writer doesn't have a clue.

    But no one did Graveyard! I don't think most players even realized that there were four wings to SM. :rotate:

    Honestly though, I never had an issue with BRD. Most groups would say what they wanted on my server back then, so it's not like people would be going into it blind. If it was blind, it was just assumed it was a mostly full run. But I'd be totally down for it to get a proper fix up like SM. There's just so much to go through in there that they can easily push out a bunch of leveling dungeons. Most people these days just hit up grim guzzler and kill the final boss in like 20 seconds.

    Origin: HaxtonWasHere
    Steam: pandas_gota_gun
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Conversely, one of my fondest memories in vanilla is getting together with a friend and putting together a BRD group to finally clear the whole thing.

    The feeling of satisfaction of clearing that dungeon for the first time is unmatched by anything else I've ever done in WoW since, and the only reason it was so satisfying was because it was so frustrating to accomplish.

    If you knew what you were doing you could do it in a half hour.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Opty wrote: »
    What they need to do is make all max level gear from one expansion be the same ilvl and match that ilvl to the gear dropped in the starting areas of the next expansion. Doing that will eliminate the exponential gulfs caused by raids as well as smooth out the levelling gear curve.

    Sorry but I need to bring this up again. I've said for a while that tiers in the same expansion should have the same stats but different set bonuses; which lines up with what you're saying here. It adds a bit more "interesting" situations because you can play with combining set bonuses, as well as serves to make older raids somewhat relevant through the expansion. Most raids wouldn't care, but you would have higher end groups using farm nights for people to get specific set bonuses for current content.
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Conversely, one of my fondest memories in vanilla is getting together with a friend and putting together a BRD group to finally clear the whole thing.

    The feeling of satisfaction of clearing that dungeon for the first time is unmatched by anything else I've ever done in WoW since, and the only reason it was so satisfying was because it was so frustrating to accomplish.

    I think the size of BRD scared a lot of people off, but it remains one of my favorite dungeons. I understand I'm not the norm. (I'm a bit sad that they put up invisible walls so you can't jump out the window to shortcut to Incendius anymore.) One of my earliest memories in the game is helping a group do Jailbreak. We did /walk when we freed whatshisface and the guy leading our team played the Kill Bill theme over Vent while we all pimp walked our way out. It was pretty damn epic.


    That being said, SM is still my #1 favorite. For whatever reason, I don't get sick of repeatedly running through that place.

  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    People didn't like the BRD style back in Vanilla. Groups would piss and moan about what oath to take, because your Druid wants to get his key but this guy needs to do Onyxia attunement or only two people want to even bother with Emperor. The problem with nonlinear dungeons is that it creates a lot of conflict in pugs. It also means LFD would have to die because Jane Nofreetime has different expectations than Johnny Poopsock who intends to take 90 minutes to clear out the whole place. This doesn't even get into the resources for art, boss design, and so on that something like BRD takes. I believe devs said that it was on par with building a capital city.

    Basically whoever wrote that fails to understand that even ten-year-olds playing WoW in 2004 are now twenty-year-olds with jobs, classes, and increasing responsibilities. The game has grown up with its players, and besides that I'm not getting misty-eyed over blackrock fucking depths. It sucked and I'm glad it's dead.

    EDIT: The clincher? The most popular dungeon in Vanilla: Scarlet Monastery. Originally intended to be one massive dungeon, it was chopped up into linear wings to be ready in time for launch. The appeal of SM would serve as the template for dungeons in TBC and basically all future expansions. The writer doesn't have a clue.

    But no one did Graveyard! I don't think most players even realized that there were four wings to SM. :rotate:

    Honestly though, I never had an issue with BRD. Most groups would say what they wanted on my server back then, so it's not like people would be going into it blind. If it was blind, it was just assumed it was a mostly full run. But I'd be totally down for it to get a proper fix up like SM. There's just so much to go through in there that they can easily push out a bunch of leveling dungeons. Most people these days just hit up grim guzzler and kill the final boss in like 20 seconds.

    That's because Graveyard dropped garbage unless a rare spawn occurred. But those were mainly for the people solo-running specifically to get those rares and their drops.

  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Yeah, I don't think I saw Scarlet Monastery Graveyard until I was level 60 and soloing lower level dungeons. I had always wondered what that instance was when I went to SM with groups, but we always skipped it.

  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    The legendary rings stats are pretty good yeah. I mean it maxes out at 795, so we're intended to keep it around for awhile in Legion. The stats for Nithramus are

    437 Intellect
    656 Stamina
    228 Versatility
    328 Mastery

    Those are higher stats than my Mythic tier chest, on a ring.

    Not to mention, the bonus of increasing your raids damage by 43.7% and the resulting bust explosion. If they don't put a "does not work above level 100" limit on the ring in Legion that cooldown alone will be worth keeping the ring on your dps well beyond when the stats their selves are beneficial alone.

    Viskod on
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Conversely, one of my fondest memories in vanilla is getting together with a friend and putting together a BRD group to finally clear the whole thing.

    The feeling of satisfaction of clearing that dungeon for the first time is unmatched by anything else I've ever done in WoW since, and the only reason it was so satisfying was because it was so frustrating to accomplish.

    I agree as the little group that my brother and I had in that train wreck of a guild are still friends to this day because of things like that

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Graveyard was also filled with mostly non elite mobs and there werent even very many. It just didnt give very much exp and the drops werent very good. It was far more efficient to do library twice than each of them once. And you got 2 people the key that way...

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    oh many I remember keys

    Of all the gated mechanisms they had, that was my favorite

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    The legendary rings stats are pretty good yeah. I mean it maxes out at 795, so we're intended to keep it around for awhile in Legion. The stats for Nithramus are

    437 Intellect
    656 Stamina
    228 Versatility
    328 Mastery

    Those are higher stats than my Mythic tier chest, on a ring.

    Not to mention, the bonus of increasing your raids damage by 43.7% and the resulting bust explosion. If they don't put a "does not work above level 100" limit on the ring in Legion that cooldown alone will be worth keeping the ring on your dps well beyond when the stats their selves are beneficial alone.

    They can always just stat squish like they've done in the past.

    Also, I don't know about set bonuses with sets being normalized. Only because some set bonuses are just things that the class has now. Like the ToC tier set for DKs had it so dieses can crit, but they can do that now days anyways.

    Origin: HaxtonWasHere
    Steam: pandas_gota_gun
  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    oh many I remember keys

    Of all the gated mechanisms they had, that was my favorite

    I remember being way more excited than justified when they announced they'd be patching in a key ring.

    And getting the key to Searing Gorge from Loch Modan felt pretty good, even if it wasn't very useful unless you were in the rare position of trying to escape a ganking by Horde.

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    The sm key didnt even matter as you could just ghost through it and rez, and there were mobs right outside, or even the other faction.

    It kind of blows my mind that strats key still exists because there isnt really a reason for it to.

    I liked having keys though. It was a kind of a prestige thing being "that guy" with the important thing. Having the ubrs key allowed all of my 60s an instant spot in any group, even on my rogue, and especially on my warlock. It was just another way people got to know others on the server, dependence on others is kind of important to create a community.

  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    So apparently that spider mount has gone from 100k on the alpha to 2 million as of this latest patch. Hopefully that doesn't remain the permanent price because I'll never have it if so. Even if I had that much I can't say I'd spend it on a ground mount, no matter how good it looks.

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    After the massive inflation due to garrisons, I would not be surprised if there were quite a few gold sinks in Legion. I have a hard time spending 100k on even the repair mount, 2m is completely out of the question as i'ts more than I've ever had, and would not spend that on anything short of a time machine to go back to get the black AQ mount.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    runaway inflation is only going to continue in legion; don't let anybody tell you otherwise

    by the time legion is in full swing, that two million will look more like 500k does now.

    what'll really be fun is seeing what such as the zulian tiger gets up to on the BMAH (buy stuff like that now, if you can.)

    ed: I'm really, really mad at myself for not buying a few CCG mounts to hold and resell while duping was still going on last year. They've already about doubled in price, and tigers will probably be a million plus in legion.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    The legendary rings stats are pretty good yeah. I mean it maxes out at 795, so we're intended to keep it around for awhile in Legion. The stats for Nithramus are

    437 Intellect
    656 Stamina
    228 Versatility
    328 Mastery

    Those are higher stats than my Mythic tier chest, on a ring.

    Not to mention, the bonus of increasing your raids damage by 43.7% and the resulting bust explosion. If they don't put a "does not work above level 100" limit on the ring in Legion that cooldown alone will be worth keeping the ring on your dps well beyond when the stats their selves are beneficial alone.

    They can always just stat squish like they've done in the past.

    Also, I don't know about set bonuses with sets being normalized. Only because some set bonuses are just things that the class has now. Like the ToC tier set for DKs had it so dieses can crit, but they can do that now days anyways.

    There's some set bonuses that reference abilities not in the game. lvl60 pvp mage stuff buffs mana shield.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see how insane the CCG mounts are gonna get on EU servers, since they already sell for above goldcap over there.

    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    So basically we need a stat squish for the economy.

  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Madican wrote: »
    So basically we need a stat squish for the economy.

    We could stand to chop off a few zeros from everything. Make silver matter again.

  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    I'm not sure what to make of the new itemization.

    I came back from Cataclysm. Some of stuff I've been finding in Pandaria is juuuust barely a side-grade for the stuff I found in Northrend.

    RT800 on
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    @RT800 Yep, that's basically what the stat squish did. Which is why I'm a little concerned about the prospect of another one, unless they only make it affect above a certain letter.

    You can get ran through MC/BWL and have anything you snag there last you all the way until Cataclysm content, basically.

    Arthil on
    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    But you can level all the way through pandaria without ever leaving the jade forest, so it's kinda whatever. You can level all the way through cata without leaving hyjal or vashjir also.

  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    But you can level all the way through pandaria without ever leaving the jade forest, so it's kinda whatever. You can level all the way through cata without leaving hyjal or vashjir also.

    With dungeon/bg finder, you can level the whole game without leaving Sw/Org (if you are a tank or healer).

    steam_sig.png
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    But you can level all the way through pandaria without ever leaving the jade forest, so it's kinda whatever. You can level all the way through cata without leaving hyjal or vashjir also.

    With dungeon/bg finder, you can level the whole game without leaving Sw/Org (if you are a tank or healer).

    steam_sig.png
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    What I was trying to get at, is that the gear not being comparatively better than the previous expansion matters very little because you'll be seeing that expansion for such a short time it won't really matter.

  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    With the current levelling curve it's definitely better for the ilvls/power difference between expansions to be as close as possible since you won't be getting that much gear while levelling, especially if you've got a full set of heirlooms and there's only a few slots you can actually get gear for. For example, my most recent level 100 alt got to level 90 with a 153 ilvl wrist since the choices I made while levelling meant I never got a quest that gave me a wrist I could use and I didn't go out of my way to buy one from a vendor.

  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    Man, my last few alts carried some starter bracers or belts that they got in the tutorial area up until Wrath before I noticed to replace them.

    Origin: HaxtonWasHere
    Steam: pandas_gota_gun
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Something you guys may not know - there's a hidden formula during levelling which uses ilvl of the item to directly increase your damage done/healing done.

    So, for example, an ilvl 30 ring with 2 intellect will do more damage than an ilvl 20 ring with 2 intellect, even though they have the same stats.

    It works from level 1-84. Items which are actually not upgrades stat-wise will be upgrades based on the item level. It was designed to combat the item level squish, to make sure an ilvl 350 item from Cataclysm at level 81 was still significantly better than an item level 200 item from level 80, even if the stats aren't that different.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/3nh3ft/til_from_levels_184_your_item_level_acts_like_an/
    Alternate Inter-Expansion Damage Adjustments

    We also want to provide power growth within an expansion, despite the fact that we've flattened the ilvl power curve within each old expansion. This applies only to creatures from expansions prior to Mists of Pandaria. To do that, we calculate an alternate set of damage dealt/taken factors, and use either these ones, or the normal ones, whichever is most beneficial to the player.

    MaxPlayerLevelsByExpansion = {69, 79, 84, 89, 0, 0} IntendedItemLevelByExpansion = {65, 115, 200, 346, 0, 0} MaxPlayerLevel = MaxPlayerLevelsByExpansion[CreatureExpansion] IntendedItemLevel = IntendedItemLevelByExpansion[CreatureExpansion]

    if (PlayerLevel <= MaxPlayerLevel and PlayerEquippedItemLevel > IntendedItemLevel) then AlternateDamageTakenFactor = 1 - 0.01 * (PlayerEquippedItemLevel - IntendedItemLevel) AlternateDamageDealtFactor = 1 + 5/3*0.01 * (PlayerEquippedItemLevel - IntendedItemLevel) DamageTakenFactor = min(DamageTakenFactor, AlternateDamageTakenFactor) DamageDealtFactor = max(DamageDealtFactor, AlternateDamageDealtFactor) end
    EDIT: Added note to the last section that it only applies to expansions prior to MoP. Revised the code to make that more clear.

    Dhalphir on
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    Well that's dumb. How would anyone know to switch to higher ilvl "upgrades" when the only actual benefit of them is hidden.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    They definitely should be making it clearer ingame

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    I assume they just don't care because it affects players for such a short amount of time. You really blow through those levels.

  • drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    So I've been looking at how they're handling legendaries and I can say I'm not that much of a fan.

    Origin: HaxtonWasHere
    Steam: pandas_gota_gun
  • RoeRoe Always to the East Registered User regular
    So I've been looking at how they're handling legendaries and I can say I'm not that much of a fan.

    You have to wonder what they have in store for WoW after they hand out legendaries for free. Perhaps it's short sited of them, but random legendary drops and artifacts are supposed to be very powerful.

    It begs to ask what is in store for WoW after Legion?

    oHw5R0V.jpg
  • ArthilArthil Registered User regular
    I have no qualms about them taking the Legendary system, more or less, from Diablo 3.

    Plus you can only wear one of them at a time I believe, and they won't be usable in Mythic Raid content.

    PSN: Honishimo Steam UPlay: Arthil
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    I like the idea of having items that do something other than just "more stats".

This discussion has been closed.