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[nfl] The season has begun. 2 more weeks before your team's season is over.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Uncalled holding :( and then that bad call.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    That offside was pretty sketchy. A lot of players were moving there.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Good timeouts by carol. Though it doesn't matter in the end

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    Fondor_YardsFondor_Yards Elite Four Member: Hydra Registered User regular
    Don't like using those TOs there.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Don't like using those TOs there.

    Bills were down limited not time limited. If they score you want 50 seconds on the clock and the chance to get out of bounds to stop it/hurry up rather than 12 seconds on the clock and two timeouts.

    If they don't score, you win. So whatevs.

    Goumindong on
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    That 3rd down play there was weird. Did it look like a lot of players just stopped playing?

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    y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    At least Rex Ryan still lost

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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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    y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    I'm more impressed by Tyrod every time I see him play though

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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    Unless Wilson makes strides in his health like he did from last week (probably still not going to be 100%) I am not sure how we can go into Gillette and win. Jimmy looking like his old self was promising though.

    Hope for a good game next week Pats fans.

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    God damnit, Jimmy!

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    SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    What an incredible come-from-behind win for senj

    There is no scientific explanation for what just happened

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    What an incredible come-from-behind win for senj

    There is no scientific explanation for what just happened

    Yeah, and had I done the completely boneheaded thing of playing the Packers D instead of Denver while also playing Luck and Hilton I would have won, too.

    Veevee on
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Roughing the passer cannot apply if you get the ball (iirc). Sherman hit the football while it was still in the place and so roughing cannot apply. The kicker isn't even a kicker at that point and iirc there is a hard exception for when you hit the ball. (Eg blocked punt they just showed that the Ravens blocked)

    Edit: That is why Sherman didn't get the roughing call

    Jerry Hughes was saying that the roughing would be because Sherman kept playing after the whistle and took Carpenter out.

    Offsides does not typically end the play. If the kicker stops then that makes sense. But he kicker keeps going and goes for the kick there is no expectation for him to stop.

    Edit: would only be unnecessary if he intentionally hit the kicker... But he got the ball and so isn't being unnecessary even after the whistle.

    Sherman wasn't just offside; he was unabated to the kicker. That's why the play was whistled dead rather than just a flag thrown.

    Whether Sherman could have expected that isn't clear, but the play is dead when it's unabated to the QB too. Of course, players do hit QBs when that happens too, which is why a lot of QBs throw the ball into the turf when that happens. I personally think it's reasonable to call penalties whenever a defensive player hits the QB or a kicker after being called unabated though, especially if the league's going to be all about player safety and shit.

    Would be unnecessary if the kicker doesn't go to the ball to kick it. At that point he is going into Sherman as much as Sherman is going into him. It would be like if a QB turns and runs into a defender who is unabated to the QB. The defender cannot be responsible for the offense moving into them.

    Dude Sherman left his fucking feet diving. I don't know what the fuck you're even defending any more... he walked into my fist? Stepped into my bullet? Ugh.

    He goes for the ball... If the play is dead you don't kick it. Yes that means you would indeed don't walk into Sherman's "fist". Like if it's unabated to the QB and the defender ends up running in front of the QB would be if he doesn't move it's not UR if the QB moves forward to throw into the defender.

    Same thing applies here.

    That was a terrible taunting call.

    I can guarantee you there is no rule saying it's the offenses responsiblity to stop moving or else it's not roughing
    I assume you mean roughness. Roughing is negated by rule because Sherman got the ball. You cannot rough the kicker if you make contact with the ball.

    Wrt UR: Dead ball UR does indeed require that the victim not initiate contact yes. Mutually initiated contact cannot be UR or it would be UR on both participants. As such the kicker does have an obligation

    http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/29969/nfl-rulebook-unnecessary-roughness

    In order for it to be UR the kicker has to be standing still or facing backwards after having kicked, else place kickers are not defenseless.

    So no it's not UR or roughing the kicker.

    Those rules say "including but not limited to" though. It's the referee's discretion on unnecessary roughness. Plus there are separate roughness rules about hitting players who should not reasonably anticipate such contact before or after the ball is dead which are suitably vague

    Honestly I'm pretty it was all because the refs saw the kicker go from "Oh I'm so injured" to "lol no just kidding I'm fine" and decided to punish him for it.

    Fake an injury so you're more likely to get a flag? Then fuck you, 5 yards it is.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Unless Wilson makes strides in his health like he did from last week (probably still not going to be 100%) I am not sure how we can go into Gillette and win. Jimmy looking like his old self was promising though.

    Hope for a good game next week Pats fans.

    I would honestly like for them to just rest Wilson and write off the game. The rest of the schedule is softer, we should get Bennett back and hopefully Chancellor's penis will get better, and the NFC West is shitting the bed.

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    dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    What an incredible come-from-behind win for senj

    There is no scientific explanation for what just happened

    congrats
    from one winner to another

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Sherman on post-interview saying he went for the ball, not the kicker, and it's not a penalty if you hit the ball. But I just saw a replay where he only hit the kicker, not the ball. So if that had been the full play, that'd definitely have been roughing the kicker. It's inconceivable to me that it becomes NOT roughing the kicker because he was unabated to the kicker.

    Whistle didn't go off until after the hit though, so Sherman playing through was probably correct.

    Link: http://thebiglead.com/2016/11/07/video-richard-sherman-drills-dan-carpenter-is-somehow-only-flagged-for-offsides/


    Edit: Wait no, I'm wrong. Sherman puts his left hand on the ball before it leaves the ground. In this case, I have no idea what the fuck the rule is.

    hippofant on
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    y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    Unless Wilson makes strides in his health like he did from last week (probably still not going to be 100%) I am not sure how we can go into Gillette and win. Jimmy looking like his old self was promising though.

    Hope for a good game next week Pats fans.

    I would honestly like for them to just rest Wilson and write off the game. The rest of the schedule is softer, we should get Bennett back and hopefully Chancellor's penis will get better, and the NFC West is shitting the bed.

    i agree

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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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    y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    hippofant wrote: »
    Sherman on post-interview saying he went for the ball, not the kicker, and it's not a penalty if you hit the ball. But I just saw a replay where he only hit the kicker, not the ball. So if that had been the full play, that'd definitely have been roughing the kicker. It's inconceivable to me that it becomes NOT roughing the kicker because he was unabated to the kicker.

    Whistle didn't go off until after the hit though, so Sherman playing through was probably correct.

    Link: http://thebiglead.com/2016/11/07/video-richard-sherman-drills-dan-carpenter-is-somehow-only-flagged-for-offsides/


    Edit: Wait no, I'm wrong. Sherman puts his left hand on the ball before it leaves the ground. In this case, I have no idea what the fuck the rule is.

    i feel like it was a late hit, in spirit. maybe the refs fucked this up by failing to blow the whistle in time, but thats the situation the rule is there for - to prevent kickers (and punters, and QBs) from getting blown up on plays where the defender is offside by a mile

    the delay of game afterwards is completely inexcusable though. just terrible, terrible officiating

    y2jake215 on
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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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    PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    Let's be real, the worst thing about tonight was the seahawks failing to cover.

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited November 2016
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    What an incredible come-from-behind win for senj

    There is no scientific explanation for what just happened

    congrats
    from one winner to another

    Can't wait to end your playoffs before they even begin.

    Veevee on
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    PellaeonPellaeon Registered User regular
    But wait, it's senjutsu, you, elki, and me in the top 4. If you knock sp00ns out and he knocks me out then who gets the 4th spot? Frosteey with the long con!

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    dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    @elki is like the cubs in this scenario, since this league started in 2008 he's been in playoffs one time (2012) where he came in as a 2nd seed and was knocked out in the first round (by the championship sp00ns), has not smelled championship gold since

    dlinfiniti on
    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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    Fondor_YardsFondor_Yards Elite Four Member: Hydra Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Don't like using those TOs there.

    Bills were down limited not time limited. If they score you want 50 seconds on the clock and the chance to get out of bounds to stop it/hurry up rather than 12 seconds on the clock and two timeouts.

    If they don't score, you win. So whatevs.

    I get the logic of it, it makes sense to do it. But it's the kind of "playing not to lose" coaching I've seen forever in Miami and I know how that usually ends so I hate seeing it.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    lol are the refs for real with that. just go unabated and you can blow up the kicker all you want! it's only 5 yards fire away!

    then having the ref over the ball with 4 seconds on the play clock is just keystone cops. and people wonder why the nfl's numbers are down.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    hippofant wrote: »
    Sherman on post-interview saying he went for the ball, not the kicker, and it's not a penalty if you hit the ball. But I just saw a replay where he only hit the kicker, not the ball. So if that had been the full play, that'd definitely have been roughing the kicker. It's inconceivable to me that it becomes NOT roughing the kicker because he was unabated to the kicker.

    Whistle didn't go off until after the hit though, so Sherman playing through was probably correct.

    Link: http://thebiglead.com/2016/11/07/video-richard-sherman-drills-dan-carpenter-is-somehow-only-flagged-for-offsides/


    Edit: Wait no, I'm wrong. Sherman puts his left hand on the ball before it leaves the ground. In this case, I have no idea what the fuck the rule is.

    There are potentially two rules in play but they operate on one common logic. You should not cream someone who isn't able to defend themselves or shouldn't expect to get hit.

    Probably the easiest way to explain it would be by looking at the direct analogue of roughing the passer. You cannot hit a QB in the head, you cannot drive them into the ground, and you cannot contact them at all after they have thrown the ball of you can reasonably prevent it

    The last one is the most important one to look at. Before a QB throws the ball they can be tackled, they have the ball and are a legitimate objective. This is regardless of the fact that throwing makes them vulnerable. A QB that is throwing cannot get blanket hit protections because you then simply could not hit QBs ever and so could not prevent them from throwing.

    The same thing applies to kickers. Before they kick the ball they are legitimate targets. They may or may not kick the ball (they might take or pull it) and blocking the kick is a legitimate objective.

    To that effect if you're able to touch the ball as you come in it's the same as if a QB is in the motion to throw. You cannot contact his head but you can still contact him. Being close enough to touch the ball implies you're close enough to have a legitimate objective.

    The same thing applies to blown whistles but for everyone on all sides of the ball. If the effort you take occurs before the whistle you're generally good. If the effort you take happens after you're generally bad. Though there is a good deal of leeway there (for various reasons)

    In this case Sherman clearly went to block the kick. That is why his body runs across the path of the kick. Since he touched the ball (and since the kicker had not yet kicked) and since the whistle was late there ought to be no call. He had a legitimate objective (equivalent of making a sack) and was pursuing it while play was live.
    hippofant wrote: »
    That 3rd down play there was weird. Did it look like a lot of players just stopped playing?

    On offense once someone is past you you generally stop playing. This is because you have three possibilities that can happen from this point.

    1) you can block a dude in the back
    2) you can hold a dude
    3) your QB can run in front of you which will let you legally participate.

    The only way to not have that happen is if you're faster than the defense that has a head start. It's not worth the energy at that point.
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Don't like using those TOs there.

    Bills were down limited not time limited. If they score you want 50 seconds on the clock and the chance to get out of bounds to stop it/hurry up rather than 12 seconds on the clock and two timeouts.

    If they don't score, you win. So whatevs.

    I get the logic of it, it makes sense to do it. But it's the kind of "playing not to lose" coaching I've seen forever in Miami and I know how that usually ends so I hate seeing it.

    Nah. It's playing to win. So only situation where you're going to lose out on this is if they get sacked on third down (which happened!) and then they score the touchdown(which did not). This is because running the clock down plus the sack ends the game.

    But they're almost certainly going to throw on third and fourth because there is almost no chance to score on a run from that distance and 2 chances to score + defend with more time > 1 chance to score + almost no chance to score possible.

    A sack is super unlikely so your best bet is taking the timeout and keeping the clock up. You buy yourself extra time and almost certainly lose nothing in return.



    Goumindong on
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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    He doesn't even touch the ball until he dropped his shoulder into a plant leg for basically no reason. It's a really ugly play where i'm surprised there wasn't a knee injury.

    You shouldn't get many breaks on unnecessary roughness when you're so offside on an unabated that you're 5 yards deep before they even snap the football. Which I'm sure is why the NFL is saying it should have been UR.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    I'm of the opinion that even if the referee doesn't blow the whistle, you can't just run across the line of scrimmage and blow a player up, regardless of who it is and where the ball is at the time.

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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    He doesn't even touch the ball until he dropped his shoulder into a plant leg for basically no reason. It's a really ugly play where i'm surprised there wasn't a knee injury.

    You shouldn't get many breaks on unnecessary roughness when you're so offside on an unabated that you're 5 yards deep before they even snap the football. Which I'm sure is why the NFL is saying it should have been UR.

    It is not his fault that the kicker is slow to the ball and that his trajectory that would take him in front of where the kick would be means he has to reach for the unsnapped ball.
    hippofant wrote: »
    I'm of the opinion that even if the referee doesn't blow the whistle, you can't just run across the line of scrimmage and blow a player up, regardless of who it is and where the ball is at the time.
    Well you would be wrong. If the referee does not blow the whistle then the assumption is that the play is live. QBs get sacked unabated all the time. It's only a penalty if the whistle is blown because if it's not blown then the assumption is that there is no penalty and the defense simply screwed up. Which happens all the time.

    And Sherman did not blow up the kicker. He ran into him after successfully blocking the field goal. He did not launch into him. He did not lift. He did not drive him into the ground. He did not hit his helmet or head with any part of his body let alone his helmet.

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    edited November 2016
    Goumindong wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    I'm of the opinion that even if the referee doesn't blow the whistle, you can't just run across the line of scrimmage and blow a player up, regardless of who it is and where the ball is at the time.
    Well you would be wrong. If the referee does not blow the whistle then the assumption is that the play is live. QBs get sacked unabated all the time. It's only a penalty if the whistle is blown because if it's not blown then the assumption is that there is no penalty and the defense simply screwed up. Which happens all the time.

    And Sherman did not blow up the kicker. He ran into him after successfully blocking the field goal. He did not launch into him. He did not lift. He did not drive him into the ground. He did not hit his helmet or head with any part of his body let alone his helmet.




    Don't mind me. Just me and the NFL's senior VP of officiating, being wrong about NFL officiating.

    hippofant on
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    GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    He is wrong too if that is why he think it's a penalty. Maybe he should read the rule book? He will probably get around to that as soon as he figures out what a catch is.

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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/08/belichick-indeed-wrote-a-letter-to-trump/

    In news that surprises no one.
    “Congratulations on a tremendous campaign,” Trump said, quoting the letter. “You have dealt with an unbelievable slanted and negative media, and have come out beautifully – beautifully. You’ve proved to be the ultimate competitor and fighter. Your leadership is amazing. I have always had tremendous respect for you, but the toughness and perseverance you have displayed over the past year is remarkable. Hopefully tomorrow’s election results will give the opportunity to make America great again. Best wishes for great results tomorrow.”

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    YallYall Registered User regular
    Forget the missed 15 yarder, how about the bullshit delay of game that cost the Bills 3 points? All else being equal we could have kicked a FG on the final play to tie the game and go to OT instead of needing a TD.

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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    Jubal77 wrote: »
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/08/belichick-indeed-wrote-a-letter-to-trump/

    In news that surprises no one.
    “Congratulations on a tremendous campaign,” Trump said, quoting the letter. “You have dealt with an unbelievable slanted and negative media, and have come out beautifully – beautifully. You’ve proved to be the ultimate competitor and fighter. Your leadership is amazing. I have always had tremendous respect for you, but the toughness and perseverance you have displayed over the past year is remarkable. Hopefully tomorrow’s election results will give the opportunity to make America great again. Best wishes for great results tomorrow.”

    That was a misquote. Trump was quoting the letter he wrote to Belichick.

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I thought it was to Putin.

    From Goodel.

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    y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    we already lost schilling, if i have to lose belichick or brady i'll be sad

    according to gisele they emphatically did NOT vote for trump though

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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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    Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    we already lost schilling, if i have to lose belichick or brady i'll be sad

    according to gisele they emphatically did NOT vote for trump though

    :) That is just a smoke screen...

    They do football good tho.

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    dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    lol bill writes like trump talks

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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    TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    dlinfiniti wrote: »
    lol bill writes like trump talks

    Sad!

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    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I guess now we can finally put to bed the predictability of the last Washington home game before an election. That's good, right?

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    VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    And the Bama/LSU version, too.

This discussion has been closed.