It's weird to say Bernie should drop when Clinton stayed in until the bitter end in 2008. Yes, the circumstances were different, but she was still a long shot by May.
I can only say my personal opinion, but I think Sanders is fine to stay until June and in the grand scheme of things, these foolish things he is doing don't really matter because nobody is paying attention yet. But I just wish so much of his effort wasn't spent attacking the democratic party on grounds which I just don't think are reasonable. Even the central message of his campaign, the constant hammering on income inequality, has become dwarfed by his attacks on the democrats.
Here's an excellent article on the general tone of this election, addressing huge problems with the way the Trump, Clinton, and Sanders campaigns have been conducted so far - by both campaign leadership, and hardcore supporters
edit: oh, didn't notice it was written by Katherine Cross
she's pretty cool
Doobh on
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The only person this debate benefits is Donald Trump. It does nothing to further Sanders’s cause and it will do needless damage to Clinton, who is a painfully flawed nominee but the nominee nevertheless. Dissatisfaction with Clinton among progressives is real and understandable. She has a lot of fence-mending to do between now and November. But if Sanders is serious about changing the party and keeping Trump out of the White House, he ought to rethink this.
Salon, much like many other Democrats, is still struggling with the idea that many of their voters are not registered members of the party and aren't interested in Hillary.
I don't believe in lesser evils, personally, but if I did, I'd have to vote for Trump.
I would love to hear which policies put forth by Hillary you think are more evil than the ones put forth by Trump.
(Wait maybe I wouldn't oh god what have I done)
I mean I get not liking her personally but if you would've voted for Bernie then Hillary's policies are a million times closer to what you're looking for than Trump's.
I'd actually be interested in which you think she was being honest about. Everyone, including her campaign, insists she's itching to "pivot" meaning she's going to dump that "progressive bullshit" she doesn't believe in and get all Keynesian up in here. Or, you know, Hajek the whole thing. Whichever you believe more likely.
But my opposition is pretty reasoned: I can't conscientiously vote for a war criminal (no, not Benghazi; that didn't happen and it wouldn't be a war crime unto herself -- the crimes are regime change and extrajudicial murder, both of which she admitted to under oath) and, with Trump, at least I don't have to live through 4-8 years of disappointing rightward movement in policy despite the "liberal" moniker being bandied about. Obama ran as a progressive and governed center-right. I have no desire to see how the "more moderate" Hillary governs.
I'll probably vote for Jill Stein if Hillary gets the nomination, but I live in DC, so don't worry, my electoral vote is probably going to Hillary. Unless we finish drafting our constitution and declare independence from the United States.
As far as her policies? She's too muted on the important issues; alleging we can't get to single-payer is ridiculous. Saying we can't do a $15 minimum wage when pegged to inflation and productivity the minimum wage should be $22 is similarly ridiculous. Her policy positions are ridiculous. "Pragmatic," sure, but you don't enter negotiations asking for what you know you can get. You ask for more and allow yourself to be bargained down. So she's demonstrably a terrible negotiator if you ignore all of her other problems.
What regime change and extrajudicial murder are you referring to here?
The only person this debate benefits is Donald Trump. It does nothing to further Sanders’s cause and it will do needless damage to Clinton, who is a painfully flawed nominee but the nominee nevertheless. Dissatisfaction with Clinton among progressives is real and understandable. She has a lot of fence-mending to do between now and November. But if Sanders is serious about changing the party and keeping Trump out of the White House, he ought to rethink this.
Salon, much like many other Democrats, is still struggling with the idea that many of their voters are not registered members of the party and aren't interested in Hillary.
I don't believe in lesser evils, personally, but if I did, I'd have to vote for Trump.
I would love to hear which policies put forth by Hillary you think are more evil than the ones put forth by Trump.
(Wait maybe I wouldn't oh god what have I done)
I mean I get not liking her personally but if you would've voted for Bernie then Hillary's policies are a million times closer to what you're looking for than Trump's.
I'd actually be interested in which you think she was being honest about. Everyone, including her campaign, insists she's itching to "pivot" meaning she's going to dump that "progressive bullshit" she doesn't believe in and get all Keynesian up in here. Or, you know, Hajek the whole thing. Whichever you believe more likely.
But my opposition is pretty reasoned: I can't conscientiously vote for a war criminal (no, not Benghazi; that didn't happen and it wouldn't be a war crime unto herself -- the crimes are regime change and extrajudicial murder, both of which she admitted to under oath) and, with Trump, at least I don't have to live through 4-8 years of disappointing rightward movement in policy despite the "liberal" moniker being bandied about. Obama ran as a progressive and governed center-right. I have no desire to see how the "more moderate" Hillary governs.
I'll probably vote for Jill Stein if Hillary gets the nomination, but I live in DC, so don't worry, my electoral vote is probably going to Hillary. Unless we finish drafting our constitution and declare independence from the United States.
As far as her policies? She's too muted on the important issues; alleging we can't get to single-payer is ridiculous. Saying we can't do a $15 minimum wage when pegged to inflation and productivity the minimum wage should be $22 is similarly ridiculous. Her policy positions are ridiculous. "Pragmatic," sure, but you don't enter negotiations asking for what you know you can get. You ask for more and allow yourself to be bargained down. So she's demonstrably a terrible negotiator if you ignore all of her other problems.
What regime change and extrajudicial murder are you referring to here?
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Bernie looks like a child right now and Hilldog looks presidential by ignoring the child.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I'm again gonna say what about what happened in Honduras are you blaming on Hillary Clinton? That the state department and the Obama administration were unwilling to formally declare it a coup, because doing so would require cutting humanitarian aid to the country? (They did in fact cut all non-humanitarian aid.) That they attempted to mediate negotiation between the exiled president and the ousting new government?
As for Libya, yeah, Hillary is way too hawkish. Although to be fair I'd say the biggest failure in Libya was not getting a UN peacekeeping force to temporarily come in and just, you know, stop people from killing each other.
+5
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
There are times I wonder how many paid right wing shills are on the boards.
wait, we can get paid for this?
+5
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Tired of being an idiot as a hobby? Now you can be a professional idiot with Shillmart!
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
There are times I wonder how many paid right wing shills are on the boards.
wait, we can get paid for this?
Its long been an internet myth/urban legend that the right wing pays shills to show up on internet boards to post their talking points. I remember back in the day this was like the Farkingest fark thing. "Oh who's paying you to post you love GWB?"
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm again gonna say what about what happened in Honduras are you blaming on Hillary Clinton? That the state department and the Obama administration were unwilling to formally declare it a coup, because doing so would require cutting humanitarian aid to the country? (They did in fact cut all non-humanitarian aid.) That they attempted to mediate negotiation between the exiled president and the ousting new government?
As for Libya, yeah, Hillary is way too hawkish. Although to be fair I'd say the biggest failure in Libya was not getting a UN peacekeeping force to temporarily come in and just, you know, stop people from killing each other.
Of course when it comes to Lybia the intervention was spearheaded by the French and British. So to blame Hillary for what happened seems quite the stretch to me.
There are times I wonder how many paid right wing shills are on the boards.
wait, we can get paid for this?
Its long been an internet myth/urban legend that the right wing pays shills to show up on internet boards to post their talking points. I remember back in the day this was like the Farkingest fark thing. "Oh who's paying you to post you love GWB?"
You couldn't pay me enough to post something nice about GWB.
He's not half the noble, visionary leader that his much smarter and handsome brother Jeb is.
Good ol Jeb, that's a guy you can take to the bank
There are times I wonder how many paid right wing shills are on the boards.
wait, we can get paid for this?
Its long been an internet myth/urban legend that the right wing pays shills to show up on internet boards to post their talking points. I remember back in the day this was like the Farkingest fark thing. "Oh who's paying you to post you love GWB?"
You couldn't pay me enough to post something nice about GWB.
He's not half the noble, visionary leader that his much smarter and handsome brother Jeb is.
Good ol Jeb, that's a guy you can take to the bank
I've always thought Chris Christie was a solid tough guy, willing to fight for whats right, and not stall the little guy in unnecessary hassle for petty retribution. And he's looking quite svelte as of late!
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
What regime change and extrajudicial murder are you referring to here?
Whoops missed this. Yes, Honduras and Libya. Normally you just sort of shrug and let it go because it's not like anyone'd be dumb enough to admit something like that on the record. Then along comes Hillary.
Why do people blame Hillary more for Obama's foreign policy than, you know, Obama?
Also between Devil and Trump, well
Lucifer 2016.
I don't know that people blame Hillary more for Obama's foreign policy than Obama; I'm pretty sure most people on the left blame Obama for them
the reason we are also criticizing Hillary over them is because everything she has said on this issue suggests a continuation of his policies in her administration
Here's an excellent article on the general tone of this election, addressing huge problems with the way the Trump, Clinton, and Sanders campaigns have been conducted so far - by both campaign leadership, and hardcore supporters
edit: oh, didn't notice it was written by Katherine Cross
she's pretty cool
I think it's worth noting that the Correct the Record SuperPAC that's discussed in this article has a relationship with the Clinton campaign that's in a legal gray area: it technically isn't violating the rules that prohibit SuperPACs from working directly with candidates, even though that level of collaboration is exactly what CTR was created to do. Between that and the criticisms laid out in the article you linked, it's not much of a stretch to suggests that they might easily be inadvertently doing more harm to Clinton's campaign in the long run.
Also, CTR was founded by and is run by David Brock, a professional worm-creature who first entered the realm of political influence when he wrote the reprehensible hatchet-job The Real Anita Hill, in which he published verbatim any smear or slander that was fed to him by the right. The dude's attack-dog tactics haven't mellowed all that much since he switched teams from anti- to pro-Hillary.
Posts
I can only say my personal opinion, but I think Sanders is fine to stay until June and in the grand scheme of things, these foolish things he is doing don't really matter because nobody is paying attention yet. But I just wish so much of his effort wasn't spent attacking the democratic party on grounds which I just don't think are reasonable. Even the central message of his campaign, the constant hammering on income inequality, has become dwarfed by his attacks on the democrats.
edit: oh, didn't notice it was written by Katherine Cross
she's pretty cool
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
What regime change and extrajudicial murder are you referring to here?
Also between Devil and Trump, well
Lucifer 2016.
I'm guessing Honduras and Libya, respectively.
Steam Me
Lucifer punishes the wicked, and yet he's a bad guy, is it because his parent isn't dead?
pleasepaypreacher.net
Not enough of us anymore.
pleasepaypreacher.net
The posts in this thread make you think there are right wing shills here?
Jesus man.
As for Libya, yeah, Hillary is way too hawkish. Although to be fair I'd say the biggest failure in Libya was not getting a UN peacekeeping force to temporarily come in and just, you know, stop people from killing each other.
Man, if I got paid to post stupid things...
Even something like a nickel a post I could easily pay for daycare and a condo remodel.
Quick someone find me a trump spokesman I have a great ROI on these influencer markets!
pleasepaypreacher.net
"If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the Devil in the Commons."
Obama's on his way out
it makes sense, at this point, why the volume of complaints are leveraged at hillary
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
wait, we can get paid for this?
Its long been an internet myth/urban legend that the right wing pays shills to show up on internet boards to post their talking points. I remember back in the day this was like the Farkingest fark thing. "Oh who's paying you to post you love GWB?"
pleasepaypreacher.net
Of course when it comes to Lybia the intervention was spearheaded by the French and British. So to blame Hillary for what happened seems quite the stretch to me.
shop smart. shop s-mart!
You couldn't pay me enough to post something nice about GWB.
He's not half the noble, visionary leader that his much smarter and handsome brother Jeb is.
Good ol Jeb, that's a guy you can take to the bank
I've always thought Chris Christie was a solid tough guy, willing to fight for whats right, and not stall the little guy in unnecessary hassle for petty retribution. And he's looking quite svelte as of late!
pleasepaypreacher.net
So far ive made $7 over the last 2 months.
I'm also an ironic Trump dank shitposter. I get paid in Dank memes.
So far i've collected over 900 rare pepes
Remember to Stand With her, and Make America Great Again, this election cycle!
Plus there's all of the "revelations" that Hillary was the one pushing Obama into action regarding Libya.
Whoops missed this. Yes, Honduras and Libya. Normally you just sort of shrug and let it go because it's not like anyone'd be dumb enough to admit something like that on the record. Then along comes Hillary.
I don't know that people blame Hillary more for Obama's foreign policy than Obama; I'm pretty sure most people on the left blame Obama for them
the reason we are also criticizing Hillary over them is because everything she has said on this issue suggests a continuation of his policies in her administration
I think it's worth noting that the Correct the Record SuperPAC that's discussed in this article has a relationship with the Clinton campaign that's in a legal gray area: it technically isn't violating the rules that prohibit SuperPACs from working directly with candidates, even though that level of collaboration is exactly what CTR was created to do. Between that and the criticisms laid out in the article you linked, it's not much of a stretch to suggests that they might easily be inadvertently doing more harm to Clinton's campaign in the long run.
Also, CTR was founded by and is run by David Brock, a professional worm-creature who first entered the realm of political influence when he wrote the reprehensible hatchet-job The Real Anita Hill, in which he published verbatim any smear or slander that was fed to him by the right. The dude's attack-dog tactics haven't mellowed all that much since he switched teams from anti- to pro-Hillary.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Something something the spirit of the law.
and I think this is something that should be completely outlawed, and packaged with a ton of other strict reforms to our electoral system
not like I believe any of this will happen in the near future
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
At this point not even someone as petulant as Sanders can pretend he's not doing more harm than good to his supposed party.
It'll be fine, Trump can negotiate great deals. The best deals, you can't even imagine how great these deals will be.
3DS: 2981-5304-3227
Iraq Libya Iraq Libya Iraq Libya Iralibyaqliqlbiablqbyaqblqa.
Also she pushed for killing Osama which really helped with defeating Romney.
And I think there are people in Yugoslavia who are pretty happy a Clinton was "hawkish" and stopped that genocidal civil war.
But Trump's outsider status ain't anything to convince me he won't be a huge disaster for foreign policy
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Look man, I'm a late 20's college graduate with about 90K in loan debt. If the right actually wanted to pay me I would shill ALL DAY