Well, Sulla is the only high end player I know of. Not sure about the others. But anyway it's a good look at some detailed analysis and how to plan for optimized builds. I know in a lot of single player games, people say nuts to optimum play and just want to build, but it's neat looking at how it does look when you go for it
Some neat points on optimal play:
- Religion just aint worth it (maybe if you're playing some religion bonus civ). Found your pantheon by running God King, move on.
- Scouts really aren't worth it. Build slingers/warriors and have them scout. In the beginning, being the first to discover city states and get that bonus is more important than monument building. (sidenote: they desperately need a scout upgrade between basic scout and ranger, it's just too big a gap)
- Build one worker max early on for the boosts, then don't touch them until you get civics for their production.
- Halt research of archery and iron working one turn before completion. Once you research them, you will no longer be able to build cheaper, zero maintenance warriors and slingers. Wait until you have all the units you want (or until someone war decs you), THEN finish the research. Upgrade right before war and not a turn sooner.
That looks like a great read. I don't have a ton of interest in Civ multi-player (I play Civ mostly to unwind, and not for a challenge or competition), but i think i can translate a lot of the stuff going on here back to single player.
A lot of it is gleaning what other payers are doing by looking at the info screens.
There's some interesting stuff that does carry to single player. What stuck out to me is that production overflow carries over any bonuses regardless of what your next item is. What this can be used for is waiting until you're 1 turn away from finishing something you have a bonus in, then chopping a forest and switching to an item you don't normally get a bonus in. So a +100% production bonus (cavalry, naval, walls) would translate to nearly a 2 for 1 forest chop into the next item, even if it's something like a district that normally never gets a bonus.
You can also start building workers in multiple cities while you have the +30% worker production civic up, then stop 1 turn short and work on something else. Once you switch into the +2 worker charges civic, you can go back and complete all those workers that benefited from the +30% production AND 66% more charges.
Also here's how city defense is determined that I didn't know before:
City Defenses
The strength of the city is the strongest unit you've ever built minus 10. Capital gives +3, districts give +2 each. Hills' bonus won't ever show up, but is active when attacking the city - it's the same as with units fighting.
Garrisoning a unit will increase the strength of the city to the strength of the unit, if higher. Thus garrisoning your strongest unit is +10.
Walls shoot with the strength of your strongest ranged units from both the archers and the artillery lines.
It stays. You can see in your production choices that there's a progress bar and the number of turns remaining for an item you started but halted previously.
It's most often used with districts. You "lock the cost" by placing it before you need it (since the cost goes up with every tech/civic you get), then switch to something else and return to the district later.
A lot of the competitive Civ players I used to watch (occasionally) on Twitch seem to have gone back to Civ 5. Not exactly sure why they're unhappy with Civ 6....
A lot of the competitive Civ players I used to watch (occasionally) on Twitch seem to have gone back to Civ 5. Not exactly sure why they're unhappy with Civ 6....
Seeing as how a good half of Macedon's city list seems to be the ones Alexander named after himself, we can safely assume they're never getting another leader. Though I guess his father would be the only one that really makes sense.
And yeah, without really making an economy I was through both trees at like 1700. That bonus is ridiculous.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Much like the Persia golden age thing in Civ 5, it's almost most useful for the civilians, to be honest.
In other news, does the Apadana have an undocumented +6 culture to trade routes with city states? Because I think that was the thing that made that suddenly start happening.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Yeah, the fact that builders get the move bonus is pretty amazing. I just played through a game, intending to do culture, but the surprise war bonus was so good that I won by domination
I'm not sure why but the tech / civics trees in 6 feel shorter or faster to get through than in 5, even though there actually is more tech here overall. I guess because your progressing through two trees at once and it's not actually double the stuff to research compared to 5's technology tree.
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
I'm not sure why but the tech / civics trees in 6 feel shorter or faster to get through than in 5, even though there actually is more tech here overall. I guess because your progressing through two trees at once and it's not actually double the stuff to research compared to 5's technology tree.
Boosts?
Could also be psychological as each individual tech/civic unlocks less. So rather than immediately present you with new choices, a lot of them don't really offer anything new so you just gloss over them.
I'm not sure why but the tech / civics trees in 6 feel shorter or faster to get through than in 5, even though there actually is more tech here overall. I guess because your progressing through two trees at once and it's not actually double the stuff to research compared to 5's technology tree.
Boosts?
Right! I totally forgot about those. You know that system isn't nearly as interesting as it initially sounded.
Steam Profile | My Art | NID: DarkMecha (SW-4787-9571-8977) | PSN: DarkMecha
One kind of neat thing about this game is the viability of cities built relatively late. Egypt razed a Spanish city in a hilly river spot with a couple food resources, I rebuilt it around the time I reached the industrial age, put a couple traders in and bought two builders and it became my spaceship factory with Ruhr Valley.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I think trade routes are the single strongest facet of your economy. You can change the routes easily, fly a trader to a different city in 1 turn and can easily boost production in a new city with a few trade routes.
It is annoying to micro-manage, though. They should streamline the heck out of it.
I'm still not positive how the duration of trade routes are calculated. With shorter routes it seems to be 2 round trips. I've seen longer routes expire though and it can't be 2 round trips there with destinations 25 turns away.
The AI is better, but it's still garbage. Like Japan on emperor refusing to build a second city. But they conquered two city states and had 1600 military power when I met them!
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Still annoying that if you eliminate a civ while they have their great prophet but haven't founded the religion, there's a permanent reduction in available religions.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The AI is better, but it's still garbage. Like Japan on emperor refusing to build a second city. But they conquered two city states and had 1600 military power when I met them!
I think it's a lot improved. The AI economic performance is a lot better, although I've been playing on immortal so god knows what crazy bonuses they're getting.
Catapults now actually shoot half the time (the other half they just sit there), and if a walled city is swamped by half a dozen units, it can actually be captured now.
I just realized that upgrading walls beyond ancient only increases their health. Nothing else. Upgrading them before was mostly a waste of time because the Civil Engineering civic was right around the corner after medieval, but this just seals the deal.
(they really should remove or nerf the free magic walls aspect of that civic)
Still annoying that if you eliminate a civ while they have their great prophet but haven't founded the religion, there's a permanent reduction in available religions.
Seems like they should just award it to you like a settler/worker if they can't figure out how to release it back into the pool.
Oh geez, I just discovered the "harvest" option for bonus resources. Basically it's like the forest chop where it removes the resource for a big one time bonus.
I never noticed it because for some inexplicable reason the icon for it is over in the movement option row rather than the worker action panel. The forest chop action is in the worker action panel, so why the hell is the harvest action over in the movement area?
under what circumstances is the harvest thing even worthwhile to use on a resource? Just improving the thing provides equivalent benefit in a relatively small number of turns and I guess there's some like, "time value of hammers" calculation that could be done but it still doesn't seem like harvesting would pull ahead
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Some of the resources really lose their utility towards the end of the game, like say an isolated wheat tile and you would rather it be a district or wonder. Harvesting beforehand is good. Also stone in general starts kind of sucking, especially if it's on a hill. It's better as just a mine. If you're min/maxing things it's sometimes the best option.
In achievement news: if you build the Pyramids next to a sphinx that does not give you the achievement for having them adjacent and on flood plains, but if you delete and rebuild the sphinx, you're good. :rotate:
And AI Catherine managed 15 cities and was making 440 tourism. Good job Catherine! On the other hand, Saladin had a worker in Cairo with 4 pillaged tiles and an unimproved wine and spices nearby.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The more I play, the more I think that all of the civs with swordsman unique units are basically just broken. Need masonry (for rams) and iron working and you can roughshod until the AIs hit machinery.
Though two legions without a ram can take out a walled city if you're in oligarchy. Legions are duuuuumb.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Rome in general is just dumb. I don't get why they get ALL those great bonuses. You could totally eliminate one of their bonuses and they'd still be OP. Do they really need the free roads, monuments, legions, baths, AND trading bonuses?
Posts
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
There's some interesting stuff that does carry to single player. What stuck out to me is that production overflow carries over any bonuses regardless of what your next item is. What this can be used for is waiting until you're 1 turn away from finishing something you have a bonus in, then chopping a forest and switching to an item you don't normally get a bonus in. So a +100% production bonus (cavalry, naval, walls) would translate to nearly a 2 for 1 forest chop into the next item, even if it's something like a district that normally never gets a bonus.
You can also start building workers in multiple cities while you have the +30% worker production civic up, then stop 1 turn short and work on something else. Once you switch into the +2 worker charges civic, you can go back and complete all those workers that benefited from the +30% production AND 66% more charges.
Also here's how city defense is determined that I didn't know before:
Or do you just keep it forever?
It's most often used with districts. You "lock the cost" by placing it before you need it (since the cost goes up with every tech/civic you get), then switch to something else and return to the district later.
It's a far more balanced game at the moment.
And yeah, without really making an economy I was through both trees at like 1700. That bonus is ridiculous.
+2 movement for 10 turns yo. This is just fantastic
Holy shiiiiiiiiiit. Even one turn with +2 movement at a surprise war dec would be borderline ridiculous.
In other news, does the Apadana have an undocumented +6 culture to trade routes with city states? Because I think that was the thing that made that suddenly start happening.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Boosts?
Could also be psychological as each individual tech/civic unlocks less. So rather than immediately present you with new choices, a lot of them don't really offer anything new so you just gloss over them.
Right! I totally forgot about those. You know that system isn't nearly as interesting as it initially sounded.
Always declare war.
It is annoying to micro-manage, though. They should streamline the heck out of it.
I think it's a lot improved. The AI economic performance is a lot better, although I've been playing on immortal so god knows what crazy bonuses they're getting.
Catapults now actually shoot half the time (the other half they just sit there), and if a walled city is swamped by half a dozen units, it can actually be captured now.
I just realized that upgrading walls beyond ancient only increases their health. Nothing else. Upgrading them before was mostly a waste of time because the Civil Engineering civic was right around the corner after medieval, but this just seals the deal.
(they really should remove or nerf the free magic walls aspect of that civic)
Seems like they should just award it to you like a settler/worker if they can't figure out how to release it back into the pool.
I never noticed it because for some inexplicable reason the icon for it is over in the movement option row rather than the worker action panel. The forest chop action is in the worker action panel, so why the hell is the harvest action over in the movement area?
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
In achievement news: if you build the Pyramids next to a sphinx that does not give you the achievement for having them adjacent and on flood plains, but if you delete and rebuild the sphinx, you're good. :rotate:
And AI Catherine managed 15 cities and was making 440 tourism. Good job Catherine! On the other hand, Saladin had a worker in Cairo with 4 pillaged tiles and an unimproved wine and spices nearby.
Though two legions without a ram can take out a walled city if you're in oligarchy. Legions are duuuuumb.
When you really need to get a wonder done quick.