[Civilization] New civs, leaders, game features announced as a new season. Vampires!

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Yeah, I don’t remember there being any real direct costs to making cities other than amenities and the opportunity cost from spamming settlers when there are a lot of things you might want to be spamming (and there are, of course, ways to mitigate this like the social policy, governor bonuses, pantheon, just conquering unwanted city states instead of settling, etc).

  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Dont the costs of techs and civics rise?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Nope. Wide is strictly better than tall after people (including me) disliked the penalties for having more than four or so cities in Civ 5.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    These personas for existing leaders make me want a persona mod where you switch personae during dark or golden ages. We just need to get extra personas for all the leaders. All of them. Maybe even a version of Ghandi that isn’t a nuke-happy bastard? Like: passive resistance: if your civilisation isn’t producing any military units, enemy units in your territory lose ten health per turn. Increase this to forty if you own no military units.

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  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Nope. Wide is strictly better than tall after people (including me) disliked the penalties for having more than four or so cities in Civ 5.

    So I should go ICS in Civ 6, correct?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Nope. Wide is strictly better than tall after people (including me) disliked the penalties for having more than four or so cities in Civ 5.

    So I should go ICS in Civ 6, correct?

    Not quite to that degree. There are two actual limiting factors:

    1) Settlers and builders get more expensive for each one you build.
    2) Districts also get more expensive for each one you build.

    It's a cost-benefit question of building settlers. But if you time the policy cards and get the right era bonuses it becomes less of an issue and you can just spam out 10-15 on a large map very easily.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy The Astral PlaneRegistered User regular
    Inca is pretty good at going tall because their mountain cities are so productive compared to their non-mountain cities, and there’s not always enough mountains to go around

    Even then they will still benefit from going wide

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The Maya are the only ones who get any kind of real penalties for going wide.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Nope. Wide is strictly better than tall after people (including me) disliked the penalties for having more than four or so cities in Civ 5.

    So I should go ICS in Civ 6, correct?

    Not quite to that degree. There are two actual limiting factors:

    1) Settlers and builders get more expensive for each one you build.
    2) Districts also get more expensive for each one you build.

    It's a cost-benefit question of building settlers. But if you time the policy cards and get the right era bonuses it becomes less of an issue and you can just spam out 10-15 on a large map very easily.

    Checking myself earlier and I don't think 2 is at all true.

    1) Districts get more expensive as you advance down the tech/civic tree. Roughly proportional to the percentage through the tree times ten. Half way through? Then districts cost five times as much as the first.

    2) Any district that you have less than the average number of will get a discount (-25%) until you are at the average.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Yeah I think sometimes you hit the average and it just seems like it goes up from building the district due to losing the discount.

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    That's also why it's "optimal" to plop down your districts ASAP even if you don't build them right away, to lock in the cheaper cost before you gather more techs.

    Unless they changed that at some point. Wouldn't be surprised if they did.

    tony danza cuts in line
  • BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    That's also why it's "optimal" to plop down your districts ASAP even if you don't build them right away, to lock in the cheaper cost before you gather more techs.

    Unless they changed that at some point. Wouldn't be surprised if they did.

    It's also why one of my required mods at this point is one that locks in static district costs. Makes the game much more enjoyable to play.

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  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Inca is pretty good at going tall because their mountain cities are so productive compared to their non-mountain cities, and there’s not always enough mountains to go around

    Even then they will still benefit from going wide

    Gandhi's religion collection ability benefits in a backhanded way from going tall as well - more pops makes it easier to accommodate multiple religions

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited July 14
    I feel like Ghandi-led India would be a pretty decent Civ if they just gave him some kind of hand up in actually starting a religion.

    Maybe even something minor like his leader ability giving 1 great prophet point for everyone you meet with a pantheon in addition to the current effect or the like.

    Khmer has the same problem really. Tamar and Phillip too but not quite so much as their abilities work fine with adopted religions if you aren’t going for a religious victory (Tamar is pretty underrated anyway, she can be an absolute monster if you can get the envoy train going.).

    Jealous Deva on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular


    Ethiopia first look!

    He looks to be quite faith oriented, with a side of culture.

    Interesting outfit, I have seen pictures of him in a cowboyish hat and pictures of him in a robe, but I don’t know that I’ve seen pictures of him wearing both at the same time.

  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I see that Teddy's new persona is city-state based. I'd given up trying to befriend city-states because they always get wiped out. Is there a way to stop that from happening?

  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    I see that Teddy's new persona is city-state based. I'd given up trying to befriend city-states because they always get wiped out. Is there a way to stop that from happening?

    Locate the person who conquered them, beat them up. You can free City-states if you conquer the city, and they get big ol' bonuses - namely a bunch of free envoys and becoming Suzerain automatically.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I don't really like any faith based civs so I am pretty underwhelmed. Maybe they play better!

    Odds they have an achievement related to the Ark of the Covenant?

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    I see that Teddy's new persona is city-state based. I'd given up trying to befriend city-states because they always get wiped out. Is there a way to stop that from happening?

    there are a couple casus belli related to city states (protectorate and liberation wars), but those are only effective if you're suzerain and if going to war is actually practical. The most effective way is usually just to have 4-5 military units stand around a city state so that the AI can't effectively attack it (though again, only works if you're their suzerain.)

    it's too bad there aren't more diplomatic levers to pull on, but it's basically just warfare

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I’ve typically seen a diplomatic event when major city states are taken over. If you get enough support, you automatically go to war with the Civ that attacked them, and get points for retaking it and giving them independence.

    Bullhead
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    While Ethiopia does indeed generate loads of faith, I'm not convinced pursuing religious victory is their most synergistic strategy, despite the video's claim to the contrary. Unlike Arabia and Georgia, they don't get extra rewards for spreading aggressively.

    No, it seems like the most efficient use of all that extra faith will be the game's many other faith sinks. The Monumentality golden age bonus will make your faith self-sustaining in the early game. Purchase settlers with faith to found cities near resources, purchase builders with faith to improve those resources, and purchase traders with faith to get even more faith. The Grand Minister's Chapel building will mean you never need to spend production or gold on units. Beelining the Cardinal governor's Divine Architect promotion means you'll never have to spend production on districts either. And you'll still have enough faith left over to rush all the Great People you want.

    I think people who enjoy playing Mali are going to end up liking Ethiopia too, for a lot of the same reasons.

    Auralynx
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Then throw in the cultist secret society to kick it up to eleven; faith generating Monuments! That also generate Science and Culture because you built on a hill! That also add an unrestricted Great Work slot to any city!
    Tourism game so strong you’ll have everyone else buying your blue jeans and listening to your rock music eldritch chanting by 1275!

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Ethiopia seems most suited for a tourism victory.

  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular


    New devstream, clarifying some points from the announcement video.

    Secret Societies will approach you for membership if you satisfy their condition or if you have diplomatic visibility with a civilization who has already joined them. The Conditions include:
    • Hermetic Order — Discover a natural wonder.
    • Voidsingers — Clear a tribal village.
    • Owls of Minerva — Send an envoy to a city-state.
    • Sanguine Pact — Clear a barbarian outpost.
    You should consider declining invitations from secret societies until you get an offer from the one that best synergizes with your civilization.

    Secret Society unique buildings will overwrite civilization unique buildings. Try to avoid joining the Hermetic Order when playing as Arabia (they synergize better with the Voidsingers anyway) and try to avoid joining the Owls of Minerva when playing as the Ottomans (they synergize better with the Sanguine Pact anyway).

    City-states will still give extra yields to district buildings as they currently do, but will now also give the same amount of yields to Diplomatic Quarter buildings. The design intent is to make building an early Diplomatic Quarter into a possible alternative to aggressively expanding.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited July 22
    The Teddy thing is kind of weird...

    So there are actually 3 Teddys? An OG teddy for those without the pack, then rough rider and bull moose teddy for those with the pack?

    What if I am playing multiplayer with someone without the pack? What if I just like the original Teddy better than either of the new ones?


    Jealous Deva on
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    What if I just like the original Teddy better than either of the new ones?

    You can toggle official DLC on and off in the mods menu. I assume if you'll have the option there to toggle the Teddy Persona DLC off, which will let you use Fusion Teddy.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Just played with a game with Georgia (first religious victory on King!). I really like this patch/pack.

    Secret societies are... fine? They give a nice little bit of variety, some neat abilities, some extra governors early on, and an extra UU and UB. The biggest thing is that they give a reason for alliances to form. I was friends with Poland all game because we were Owls of Minerva buddies, which is pretty cool. Like the Ideologies in Civ 5. They are something I can see leaving on, unlike armageddon mode.

    Ethiopia I haven't played with, but they did pretty well in my game (aside from failing to get a religion for some odd reason). Menelik has crazy eyes though, he's a bit Gowron-esque.

    Diplomatic victory and religion feel a lot better in general. I played with Work ethic which is really strong, but I had to probably give up 2 cities to get the religion in the first place in opportunity costs, so I don't know if its op or not. A lot of beliefs are a lot stronger now. The Diplomatic side of things with the new district really encourages you to play tall. I was rolling in bonuses as Georgia with her envoy bonuses, I got lucky with 2 faith cities near by and a couple of +5 holy sites and just dominated the religous end. Hit religious victory around the time gunpowder showed up, but I was lucky in that the other religious civs were right next to me on my continent. Diplomatic victory seems to be their effort to make Tall/peaceful work, and at least for certain civs it seems viable. I could have probably cruised on to a diplomatic victory if I hadn't been in such a good spot faithwise.

    All those that think Tamar is underpowered need to try her with the new patch. Rush astrology and a shrine and Divine Spark up a religion, take the belief that gives you free envoys with a conversion and the policy card that give a free envoy with your first envoy in a city, and you can get 3 envoys and suzerain status immediately on converting a city state if no other civ is actively trying to get them. This plus her ability to infinitely chain golden ages with the religious golden age dedication (which basically gives her free spreads on all her religious units) is ridiculously powerful. Then on top of that once you hit renaissance you can spam 8 faith walls on every city, and if anyone messes with your city states you can DOW them for another giant faith bonus. She's a massive snowball civ.

    I also dig the alt leaders. I would probably like it more if it was Louis XIV and Abe Lincoln rather than Catherine and Teddy in different clothes, but ultimately it's a new playstyle for America and France that are pretty different from the old leaders, and that's great for mixing things up a bit. If it means more civs get a second leader I wouldn't be averse to more like that in the future (I also wouldn't be averse to bringing back some CIV 5 leaders in official content since the art seems to work just fine in mods, hint hint firaxis).

    Ivan Hunger
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Ethiopia makes a TON of faith. Though I fucked up and forgot to change the difficulty level so I'm on Prince which is no fun.

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  • Al_watAl_wat Registered User regular
    Getting early governors thanks to the new secret society mechanic is a HUGE boost early game

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    The secret society with the ley lines is super underwhelming until you get the third promotion because the tiles themselves blow. But when you hit industrial, they're suddenly 10 hammer, 9 science, 8 culture, 12 gold power houses. (Results may vary)

    Also Ethiopia makes just a dumb amount of faith. Wasn't trying all that hard and could buy a tank army every four turns.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    Question, in multiplayer is getting a free envoy for being the first to discover a city state disabled? Or is that just disabled when playing on teams?

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  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    The biggest thing is that they give a reason for alliances to form. I was friends with Poland all game because we were Owls of Minerva buddies, which is pretty cool. Like the Ideologies in Civ 5.

    I also get an ideology vibe from secret societies, but better because they're relevant through the entire game and not just the end.
    Al_wat wrote: »
    Getting early governors thanks to the new secret society mechanic is a HUGE boost early game

    Yeah, getting a bunch of free Governor Titles early feels really good. It also makes choosing later Governor promotions more strategic, because you've already got all the ones that are super synergistic with the particular civ you're playing as.

  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    edited July 26
    So uh, I accidentally stumbled into my second Civ 6 win. Tamar of Georgia, diplomatic victory, on Prince. No Idea how I got so many points, I feel the AI never really tried to contest the aid requests (of which there were a lot of since Apocalypse mode) or city state (I was Suzerain of 3 or 4 most of the game). 8 from Congress participation, 8 from competitions, and 4 from Victory Point resolutions.

    Tried my had at being religious, but I didnt want to convert everyone and I didnt know how to transition the extra faith into anything else.

    I was also the lowest score, 686 versus the 1435 of Suleiman. A very weird game.

    JusticeforPluto on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    The best thing to do with extra faith if you aren’t going for a religious victory is probably buy relevant great people. You can also build a building in the government plaza to buy units, and buy religious buildings.

    The AI does contest city states, but ad Tamar if you are bothering to spread your religion at all your envoy bonus is going to make it hard for anyone to compete that doesn’t have a specific diplomatic bonus.

    Suleiman is a freaking monster in my games usually.

  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Nope, two of the cities were a different religion, and the third I'm pretty sure was a recent convert.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Nope, two of the cities were a different religion, and the third I'm pretty sure was a recent convert.

    Ah, definitely as Tamar spread your majority religion to every city state on the map, even if its not your founded religion you get huge bonuses.

    Some AI just doesn’t really prioritize city states, you probably got luck. If you start next to pericles you’ll definitely notice them trying to steal cs’s from you.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited July 26
    Just had a thought; why are diplomatic favour and envoys separate things? Equally, why aren’t city states on the world congress?

    I kinda feel like going back to buying favour with city states then having them vote for you in the congress would make more sense than outright buying votes with no cap. At the moment, unless you’re explicitly going for a diplomatic victory, favour seems more like a way to mine AI players for gold than a resource of its own.

    Mr_Rose on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Fucking dammit, I opened the game a couple of days ago just to play a bit, and now i have the pass ($15? I'd be crazy to say no!) so I have both DLC, and am right back in it.

    Maori is a fun way to get sucked back in, though.

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    Al_wat
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    The gathering storm civs are universally pretty awesome honestly.

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