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[Civilization] throw out your Valentines, Gather your Storms

13468982

Posts

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    The Sauce wrote: »
    CesareB wrote: »
    Poland is the flat strongest civ, I think. Maya, Korea, and Babylon are also all very good.

    I'm gonna throw in a vote for Shoshone. They have a very reliable early game and that's the most important part of civ and IMO the place where you feel the difference the most when going up a level.
    This bit is why I've wanted a Civilization game where each civ "morphs" as you go through eras. I think three "versions" is probably the sweet spot, making things change enough to be reasonable while also having a large range of time to choose a good name and identity from.

    For instance, each civ would have an Ancient, Medieval, and Modern identity. Instead of a simple "Greece" civ led for all time by one leader, it might start out as Macedon in the Ancient era, become Byzantium for the Medieval era, and finally be Greece for the modern era. Each of these three identities would have unique leaders and bonuses, including era-appropriate units and buildings.

    This would make the "total" number of civs rather small (in terms of which you can pick from), but many former stand-alone civs would find an identity somewhere in one of the civ chains. A few of these could be a little uncomfortable (native American civs becoming modern American nations), but I think it would be worth it for preserving the historical feel of each era. I always hate running into the US in the ancient era, for example, enough that I often set all the AI civs manually just so I can ensure that doesn't happen.

    This would also lead to better balance since each civ would have something unique about it in every era. No more problematic civs that don't get their goodies until late-game, making them likely to be destroyed long before such a point even arrives, or early-game powerhouses that dominate in the hands of a player but quickly become irrelevant in the hands of the AI.

    I've long wondered how hard it would be to program a mod to do this.

    There was a mod almost exactly like this for ... Civ 4?

    Fake Edit: Yeah, Civ 4. Called Rhye's and Fall of Civilization.

    omgbfz5lzi1s.png
    Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
    The Disappearance of Inigo Sharpe: Tomas à Dunsanin
    The Sauce
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    After thinking on it some more, it seems like the optimal way to play India will be to play a strong religious game, but not shoot for religious victory. You definitely want to spread your religion, but only to rivals who don't already have their own.

    Ideally, you want to chase religious beliefs that'll help you achieve a science or culture victory, such as Stewardship, Wats, or Cathedrals. The goal would be to create a religion that feeds into some other part of the game, rather than creating a self-sustaining religion like Spain wants to do.

  • CesareBCesareB Registered User regular
    edited August 2016
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    The Sauce wrote: »
    CesareB wrote: »
    Poland is the flat strongest civ, I think. Maya, Korea, and Babylon are also all very good.

    I'm gonna throw in a vote for Shoshone. They have a very reliable early game and that's the most important part of civ and IMO the place where you feel the difference the most when going up a level.
    This bit is why I've wanted a Civilization game where each civ "morphs" as you go through eras. I think three "versions" is probably the sweet spot, making things change enough to be reasonable while also having a large range of time to choose a good name and identity from.

    For instance, each civ would have an Ancient, Medieval, and Modern identity. Instead of a simple "Greece" civ led for all time by one leader, it might start out as Macedon in the Ancient era, become Byzantium for the Medieval era, and finally be Greece for the modern era. Each of these three identities would have unique leaders and bonuses, including era-appropriate units and buildings.

    This would make the "total" number of civs rather small (in terms of which you can pick from), but many former stand-alone civs would find an identity somewhere in one of the civ chains. A few of these could be a little uncomfortable (native American civs becoming modern American nations), but I think it would be worth it for preserving the historical feel of each era. I always hate running into the US in the ancient era, for example, enough that I often set all the AI civs manually just so I can ensure that doesn't happen.

    This would also lead to better balance since each civ would have something unique about it in every era. No more problematic civs that don't get their goodies until late-game, making them likely to be destroyed long before such a point even arrives, or early-game powerhouses that dominate in the hands of a player but quickly become irrelevant in the hands of the AI.

    I've long wondered how hard it would be to program a mod to do this.

    There was a mod almost exactly like this for ... Civ 4?

    Fake Edit: Yeah, Civ 4. Called Rhye's and Fall of Civilization.

    Man I loved RFC. Each civ was like playing a different game entirely. Unique historical victories was just the BEST idea.

    CesareB on
    Elvenshae
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular


    Kongo:

    Extra food, production, and gold from relics, artifacts, and great works. You can find the first of those from goodie huts on at least Prince, so that could be huge. Also they get great artist and great merchant points every turn (!)
    Unique unit is a swordsman that does not require iron, has no sight or movement penalties in rain forest/forests, and has the cover promotion.
    Unique district that replaces the neighborhood and comes earlier, providing extra housing, food, and gold.
    They don't get holy sites (leader was a convert to Christianity) but they get the founder belief of any religion that is adopted in the majority of their cities and get apostles whenever they built their unique district or a theater district.

    Seems like they are good for going super tall?

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    So, of the three religious leaders introduced so far, we have:

    1. One who wants to found his own religion, spread it everywhere, and exterminate all others.

    2. One who wants to found his own religion and spread it, but who also wants to encourage others to spread their religion to him.

    3. One who can't found his own religion, but gets bonuses if he converts to someone else's.

    That's a lot of different ways to utilize that mechanic!

    jdarksunElvenshaeOats
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I wouldn't consider Kongo an actual religious leader, just has interactions with religions as his ability. I would consider him a culture/science leader.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    I wouldn't consider Kongo an actual religious leader, just has interactions with religions as his ability. I would consider him a culture/science leader.

    I was more talking about their agendas/playstyles than what victory types they want to push for. Of the civs we've seen so far, I think Spain is the only one that wants to make a hard push for Religion Victory.

    In terms of victory, Spain is primarily Religion, with Domination as a secondary backup, and Science as a tertiary backup.

    India wants to pursue both Science and Culture at the same time, with Religion as its backup. Domination is definitely a last resort only for them.

    Religion Victory is completely off the table for Kongo. They want to push hard for Culture as their primary goal, with Science being their secondary backup, and Domination being their tertiary backup.

  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    Wait, there's a religious victory type in CivVI? I didn't know they announced that yet?

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Aldo wrote: »
    Wait, there's a religious victory type in CivVI? I didn't know they announced that yet?

    Yeah, you win Religious Victory by converting every city state and empire in the world to your religion. Converting an empire means converting over half its cities, while converting a city means converting over half it's population.

    India doesn't want to do that, because they lose their unique ability if they get too aggressive with wiping out competing religions, and Kongo can't even found their own in the first place.

    Ivan Hunger on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular


    Norway gets to be the Vikings this time. Harald Hardrada is the leader.

    Naval melee units can perform "coastal raids" which look like pillaging? With the bonuses for pillaging districts that might be good?
    He gets the longship, which heals in neutral territory.
    Berserkers are better attackers/pillagers, weaker on defense.
    Stave church replaces the temple and gets faith bonuses for being next to woods.
    No embark penalties, and shipbuilding lets them move onto ocean tiles early.

    Feels very Viking-y, but not all that great.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Also another dev livestream today at four eastern, with Spain. Religion focused, supposedly, but they've said that before.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular


    Norway gets to be the Vikings this time. Harald Hardrada is the leader.

    Naval melee units can perform "coastal raids" which look like pillaging? With the bonuses for pillaging districts that might be good?
    He gets the longship, which heals in neutral territory.
    Berserkers are better attackers/pillagers, weaker on defense.
    Stave church replaces the temple and gets faith bonuses for being next to woods.
    No embark penalties, and shipbuilding lets them move onto ocean tiles early.

    Feels very Viking-y, but not all that great.

    Seems like its another one of those civs that depends greatly on what map type you put it on. Pangea? Don't bother. Archipelago? Top tier.

  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2016
    Yeah, they feel like Polynesia from Civ V where they're real strong on small continents/archipelagos, and irrelevant elsewhere. The longship healing in neutral territory is neat, but I don't get the see navies being as important as they were in IV and V.

    A duck! on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    A steak! wrote: »
    Yeah, they feel like Polynesia from Civ V where they're real strong on small continents/archipelagos, and irrelevant elsewhere. The longship healing in neutral territory is neat, but I don't get the see navies being as important as they were in IV and V.

    Depends on enemy AI, it was stupid easy to destroy enemy navies in V because the AI was dumb about submarines etcet.

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
  • CesareBCesareB Registered User regular


    Norway gets to be the Vikings this time. Harald Hardrada is the leader.

    Naval melee units can perform "coastal raids" which look like pillaging? With the bonuses for pillaging districts that might be good?
    He gets the longship, which heals in neutral territory.
    Berserkers are better attackers/pillagers, weaker on defense.
    Stave church replaces the temple and gets faith bonuses for being next to woods.
    No embark penalties, and shipbuilding lets them move onto ocean tiles early.

    Feels very Viking-y, but not all that great.

    Stave church in particular feels underwhelming and out of place. What in the world is the naval, militaristic civ doing with a religious building? At least they could've given it a bonus next to coast instead of forest.

    I also strongly dislike the ocean traveling ability. I would've preferred something more directly related to conquest.

    IDK this civ seems to be falling into the same design traps of most of the civs released early in V. I thought they had moved on from civs being a mish mash of random, unrelated bonuses.

    Zombie Hero
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    So I'm guessing his agenda will be that he hates empires that settle on or near the coast, but likes empires who stay landlocked.
    CesareB wrote: »
    Stave church in particular feels underwhelming and out of place. What in the world is the naval, militaristic civ doing with a religious building? At least they could've given it a bonus next to coast instead of forest.

    I also strongly dislike the ocean traveling ability. I would've preferred something more directly related to conquest.

    IDK this civ seems to be falling into the same design traps of most of the civs released early in V. I thought they had moved on from civs being a mish mash of random, unrelated bonuses.

    Honestly, I like that civs in 6 are less specialized than civs in 5. It goes along with the dev's "you have to play the map" initiative. They don't want you to always go for the same victory type every game, even when you're playing as the same civ. Every civ in 6 has a plan B.

    I can see the logic behind giving Norway religion as a secondary focus. The lack of embarkation penalties will also apply to missionaries, so they'll be strong at spreading their religion over the sea. And if you choose aggressive beliefs like Crusade, you can use your religious proficiency to further enhance your military strength.

  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The conversion to Christianity was an important part of Danish history, so I'm personally glad they incorporated it.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Coastal raids can get goodie huts and barb camps if they're on the coast.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • WassermeloneWassermelone Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Also theres pretty much a guarantee that you can pick up some military bonuses within the religion system, so faith can still feed into that conquest

    Wassermelone on
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    That Stave church is sort of disappointing. I certainly didn't enjoy the faith bonus on forests of the Civ V Celts, so i can't imagine this being much different. Maybe it will be a little better with creative districting, but only if i can get some other use of that Forest as well, and i don't know if there is anything like that (mostly because i haven't watched too many previews).

    I hope city building turns out to be like playing Suburbia, where there are lots of nice interactions between district types and placement in relationship to each other.

    Steam
    Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
    Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
    3ds: 3282-2248-0453
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Religious units can literally fight without a war being declared. Spanish apostle in this livestream murdered a missionary, which then partially converts cities within ten tiles.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Religious units can literally fight without a war being declared. Spanish apostle in this livestream murdered a missionary, which then partially converts cities within ten tiles.

    Assuming that they are only attacking other religious units, right? Man i should watch some of these

    Steam
    Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
    Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
    3ds: 3282-2248-0453
    enlightenedbum
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Zone of control doesn't extend over rivers. Which is a big important change.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    WassermeloneZombie HeroJusticeforPluto
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Apostles get promotions (select from a couple random, I think?), can unlock new beliefs, or start an Inquistion which allows creation of Inquisitor units. Those are super strong religious fighters in your own territory. So yeah there's an entire religious combat system which is presumably the major factor in the religious victory.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Zombie HeroBullhead
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Spain looks incredible with the right geography. In the game they're showcasing, Madrid is literally on a continental boundary so their trade route bonus thing is a massive boost.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    I wonder how that religious struggle will tie into the their justifiable war system. Like, if your apostles are getting their asses handed it to them by the other religion, can you go to war with less of a diplo penalty?

    This all sounds super interesting.

    Steam
    Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
    Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
    3ds: 3282-2248-0453
    Wassermelone
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited September 2016
    Qin definitely protested the religious fighting. They talk about unlocking the liberation casus beli because China's conquered Chicago and Charleston, so presumably that's somewhere in the civics tree.

    One problem that they didn't change is civilian units being limited to one per tile, so they have an apostle stuck because a city state builder is in their way in a valley and a barbarian is closing in from the other side of the valley.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Conquistadors at Gunpowder, not Chivalry like usual.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    Zone of control doesn't extend over rivers. Which is a big important change.

    Meaning, if my memory is correct, you could freely move units along a river without movement penalties caused by enemy units on the other side of the river?

    camo_sig2.png
    enlightenedbum
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    AT&T is the great Satan, so I lost the end of the stream when they talked about how the religious victory works. Think it's convert a majority of every civ's cities to your religion. So may require some crusades.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Apostle promotions I think I saw or heard mentioned:

    1) Two extra conversions
    2) The Great Prophet conversion from Civ 5 where it removes all other faiths
    3) Convert all adjacent barbarians into your military units (given the barb spawn rate we've seen, potentially yikes)

    One down note: on the Norway game they started playing to show off the coastal raiding, they were playing on their version of archipelago (re-written script because cities need rooms for districts and the landmasses are a little bigger) and the AI Japan had built no defenses at all. Because this was set up to show them off, maybe it was rigged, maybe it was on super easy difficulty, or maybe the AI sucks at water maps.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Apostle promotions I think I saw or heard mentioned:

    1) Two extra conversions
    2) The Great Prophet conversion from Civ 5 where it removes all other faiths
    3) Convert all adjacent barbarians into your military units (given the barb spawn rate we've seen, potentially yikes)

    One down note: on the Norway game they started playing to show off the coastal raiding, they were playing on their version of archipelago (re-written script because cities need rooms for districts and the landmasses are a little bigger) and the AI Japan had built no defenses at all. Because this was set up to show them off, maybe it was rigged, maybe it was on super easy difficulty, or maybe the AI sucks at water maps.

    I'm really interested to see how the AI handles building harbors. V's AI was horrible on continents (especially small continents) because normally strong civs would completely fail to build coastal cities and couldn't project power. Harbors seem like a real easy fix to that, but I still have doubts.

    Bullhead
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    Also theres pretty much a guarantee that you can pick up some military bonuses within the religion system, so faith can still feed into that conquest

    We already know about one big one, "Crusade", which as called "Just War" in Civ 5. It's a religious belief that increases the combat strength of your units by 10 when near an enemy city that's been converted to your religion. It'll be the goto belief for warmongers.

    There's also lots of production and science enhancing beliefs that can benefit your military indirectly as well.
    I hope city building turns out to be like playing Suburbia, where there are lots of nice interactions between district types and placement in relationship to each other.

    Every district that produces some kind of yield (campuses, holy sites, theatre squares, commercial hubs, and industrial zones) produce an extra 0.5 of that yield for every district (of any type) that is adjacent to it, in addition to their other adjacency bonuses. So yes, it's usually a good idea to try and clump your districts together in a big pile, when you can. When playing as Japan, this bonus is doubled, providing 1 yield per adjacent district instead of 0.5. The commercial hub also gets 2 gold from being adjacent to a harbor district, instead of the usual 0.5 it gets from other districts.
    Religious units can literally fight without a war being declared. Spanish apostle in this livestream murdered a missionary, which then partially converts cities within ten tiles.

    The huge revelation here is that any military combat bonuses will also apply to theological combat as well, unless specified otherwise.

    Meaning America's apostles will be stronger on their home continent, Japan's apostles will be stronger on the coast, Aztec's apostles will be stronger the more improved luxuries they have, Scythia's apostles will be stronger against wounded units, etc.

    This is a gamechanger. I'm taking a second look at a lot of the civs that have already been announced now.

    Wassermelone
  • m!ttensm!ttens Registered User regular
    My best friend played the shit out of Civ 5 when he and his wife had their first baby (you only need one arm to click the mouse while the other holds the baby, play is turn based, etc.) and his second is due just a couple of days before Civ 6 releases. He tells me it's a complete coincidence, but I don't believe him.

    SnicketysnickElvenshaejdarksunMegamaniacoZombie Heroschusschrono_travellerHefflingMvrckJusticeforPlutohanzo
  • Ivan HungerIvan Hunger Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    My best friend played the shit out of Civ 5 when he and his wife had their first baby (you only need one arm to click the mouse while the other holds the baby, play is turn based, etc.) and his second is due just a couple of days before Civ 6 releases. He tells me it's a complete coincidence, but I don't believe him.

    As long as his family keeps working those food tiles, their population is just going to keep growing.

    Elvenshaechrono_travellerRuldarHefflingMvrckJusticeforPluto
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    My best friend played the shit out of Civ 5 when he and his wife had their first baby (you only need one arm to click the mouse while the other holds the baby, play is turn based, etc.) and his second is due just a couple of days before Civ 6 releases. He tells me it's a complete coincidence, but I don't believe him.

    I have multiple memories of bouncing my first to sleep on my lap while I played Civ 5 at 3 AM to stay awake.

    jdarksunKafkaAU
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    My best friend played the shit out of Civ 5 when he and his wife had their first baby (you only need one arm to click the mouse while the other holds the baby, play is turn based, etc.) and his second is due just a couple of days before Civ 6 releases. He tells me it's a complete coincidence, but I don't believe him.

    I introduced my brother-in-law to Civ 5 while my sister was pregnant, and he was hooked on the game in similar fashion after the baby was born. The first words out of my nephew's mouth were, "This is a lush, fertile land..."

    Three things in human life are important: the first is to be kind; the second is to be kind; and the third is to be kind.
    chrono_travellerRuldarKetarwebguy20
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    Our child is 10 days old.

    Thank god for turn based games.

    (Renowned Explorers is also great for this)

    Elendil wrote: »
    said Aldo hazily, before clop-clop-clopping out of the room
    chrono_travellerZombie HeroElvenshaeschussToyDjdarksunOatsSyphyreTofystedeth
  • ToyDToyD Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    Our child is 10 days old.

    Thank god for turn based games.

    (Renowned Explorers is also great for this)

    I played so much Civ IV and V while the kids were young. Turn based games were great for this. Plus I learned to be really thorough in Civ (which is key for the high difficulties) on every turn because I was only gonna get 5-10 turns at a time. They go really fast early, but each turn can take several minutes later in the games!

    steam_sig.png
  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    So greenmangaming sent me an email with a voucher for 22% off Civ 6, and I can't use it unless I'm logged in, and if I'm logged in and try to use it it tells me members don't need vouchers anymore and that logging in will give me the lowest price, and yet it still wants to charge me $80.

    Any idea what gives? Does this email exist purely to mock me?

13468982
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