if they want supports to be more than just people with healing as their main role they should definitely move torbjorn in there. Like Symmetra he buffs team health a lot with his armor packs and has a focus on an area denial mechanic with his turret. The main broad difference is that he's a toe-to-toe brawler in addition to his support abilities, with his combat buff ult and generally strong weapon.
i think part of what makes for support vs defense is that toe-to-toe thing. while the current supports can pump damage if someone gets close, they cannot take many hits.
and for tank vs defense (as suggested with Bastion), i'm gonna guess it comes down to whether you are pulling focus and wading into a fight, or if you are more effective with someone else getting attention. (not having played him) i think Bastion can generally hold his own as part of a group effort, but will quickly melt in the frontline; he differs from a support because he self-buffs only.
I'd kinda like them to divide tanks and healers categories:
Tanks: Winston, Reindhart
Bruisers (tanky people who don't provide mad shields/great team defense): D.Va, Roadhog, Zarya (Zarya's debatable but I'd argue she's more of a tank/support than pure tank.
Healers: Lucio, Mercy, maybe Zenny
Buffers/insert fancy name here: Symmetra
It's useful to have the distinction because it helps solve new player confusion (see Symmetra being asked to heal more) and impress upon people better team comps.
i assume they're futureproofing. there are more characters planned, and restricting it to 'healer' is limiting. it's silly to say that they fucked up in communicating a concept when it's a player making assumptions instead of taking the label at face value.... a creator doesn't have to conform to expectations simply because they are established in other games (movies, books, plays....)
This is exactly the point of using already defined terms that people understand when they list categories. Designing around pre-existing biases from other media and games is absolutely a huge part of making the game work well for new players. Who are the people who most need accurate labels they understand on things.
I am incredibly disappointed that blizzard put Phara in the Warrior-Jumper category even though she's more about flying than jumping. Like seriously they really failed in this regard, players are going to be looking for a jumper on their team and only end up with a kind of Warrior-Flyer which doesn't really fill the role.
I dread every round that the game tells me we have low offense.
I tend to pick last, and go with whatever team need is lacking, but I haven't found one straight up damage dealing guy that I like yet. Still haven't tried Genji, so I guess that's the plan for tonight.
It's really amusing to me that people are having the same conversations about the 4 roles in Overwatch as we've had for 2 years in Heroes of the Storm re: Support v Healer and Bruiser v Tank.
Ah Blizzard, in this crazy mixed up world, at least I never have to worry about you changing.
I was tempted to bring up Tryande as an example of a similar problem. Except there it was even worse because the match maker would treat her as a full on support when it came to throwing a team together.
I'd kinda like them to divide tanks and healers categories:
Tanks: Winston, Reindhart
Bruisers (tanky people who don't provide mad shields/great team defense): D.Va, Roadhog, Zarya (Zarya's debatable but I'd argue she's more of a tank/support than pure tank.
Healers: Lucio, Mercy, maybe Zenny
Buffers/insert fancy name here: Symmetra
It's useful to have the distinction because it helps solve new player confusion (see Symmetra being asked to heal more) and impress upon people better team comps.
i assume they're futureproofing. there are more characters planned, and restricting it to 'healer' is limiting. it's silly to say that they fucked up in communicating a concept when it's a player making assumptions instead of taking the label at face value.... a creator doesn't have to conform to expectations simply because they are established in other games (movies, books, plays....)
This is exactly the point of using already defined terms that people understand when they list categories. Designing around pre-existing biases from other media and games is absolutely a huge part of making the game work well for new players. Who are the people who most need accurate labels they understand on things.
which is why they differentiated it by labeling it as support instead of heal. some players are assuming 'heal', despite it saying 'support'. as evidenced by them using it, it is an accurate label for what Blizz intends, and it is the reader's assumption otherwise.
and i think there are likely a number of 'new players' coming off of Blizzard properties rather than shootmans. so 'support' is a lot more meaningful as such rather than a cipher for 'heals'.
it would be best if people tried all the characters, or at least looked at the abilities, instead of making assumptions. i'm okay with a company inviting that level of investment and opening up the roles to greater interpretation, especially since so many people hate playing tanks or healers. either because their kit isn't interesting, no one else does it, etc etc. and tanks and healers usually get the blame in a failure.
people yelling for a healer tend to be selfish (rarely will they do it themselves), and i'm interested in a more considered community with less pigeonholing. part of why i burn out on shooters is people getting salty about it -- i like to win, but it's a game, and i can have fun while losing.
I think Symmetra is fine as the sole team support on defense but she's really lacking on offense because she can't do much to help people push forward
yeah she's a lot less useful on offense, teleporters are still good if you can actually get your ult charged but it's hard to use sentries if you're the one pushing and you often have shitty flanking options.
yeah, flanking is the main thing if you're using her offensively. if you can get a teleporter behind their lines, it can be fun. but on most maps, there are characters with better mobility that are easier to push or flank, so i usually use her long enough to unsettle the other team and switch.
If we're supposed to be attacking a point and my team has three Torbs for some reason, do I reserve the right to punch them
Yes.
I believe teams can have either 2 or 6 of the same character, but not 3, 4, nor 5.
Also Torbs and Symmetra are questionable for offense. The armor, shields, and teleporter are fine, but I feel like they're more for defend/neutral point games.
Finally put some good time in with McCree, I'm getting there with him
His gun is real good
It seems accurate as all hell
I THINK that at least on single shots, it is indeed perfectly accurate. Maybe some spread on the fan the hammer shots?
Other things I want the whole world to suddenly understand:
Overtime counts down unless the point/cart is contested.
TOUCH THE CART
NO REALLY TOUCH IT
You can not win just by killing all the mans. I promise you.
Symmetra is da best because her 2 shot goes through rein shields and people so you just spam that down corridors when you feel like it.
Playing with @joeuser ha altered my headcannon so that now Rein is a redpanda in a giant suit of armor.
Finally put some good time in with McCree, I'm getting there with him
His gun is real good
It seems accurate as all hell
I THINK that at least on single shots, it is indeed perfectly accurate. Maybe some spread on the fan the hammer shots?
Other things I want the whole world to suddenly understand: Overtime counts down unless the point/cart is contested.
TOUCH THE CART
NO REALLY TOUCH IT
You can not win just by killing all the mans. I promise you.
Symmetra is da best because her 2 shot goes through rein shields and people so you just spam that down corridors when you feel like it.
Playing with @joeuser ha altered my headcannon so that now Rein is a redpanda in a giant suit of armor.
Thank you. I literally had no idea what triggered any sort of victory in OT.
Do we have an official statement on what new content they plan on adding to the game?
I know they've said characters, but are they gonna add maps and gametypes and cosmetics?
There's gotta be clans soon, I'm sure.
A feature I'd like to see is an option like Looking for Group but it has a friends-only option so it would be quicker to see who on your friends list wants to group up. Clan channels would probably help this too, so I'll take whichever.
Finally put some good time in with McCree, I'm getting there with him
His gun is real good
It seems accurate as all hell
I THINK that at least on single shots, it is indeed perfectly accurate. Maybe some spread on the fan the hammer shots?
Other things I want the whole world to suddenly understand: Overtime counts down unless the point/cart is contested.
TOUCH THE CART
NO REALLY TOUCH IT
You can not win just by killing all the mans. I promise you.
Symmetra is da best because her 2 shot goes through rein shields and people so you just spam that down corridors when you feel like it.
Playing with @joeuser ha altered my headcannon so that now Rein is a redpanda in a giant suit of armor.
Thank you. I literally had no idea what triggered any sort of victory in OT.
There are seriously so many little unexplained things that I wish they had as tooltips or SOMETHING in game. What does/does not go through a rein shield? What can/can't Genji deflect? Turns out standing behind a toothpick post is enough to protect you from all of a Deva ult, A roadhog pull stops most (all?) "channeled" ults, does a reinhard charge stop ults? What will tracers rewind not undo? Do people realize roadhog can pull bastion out of turret form?
I understand there are/will be wikis for all this, but it really shouldn't take me digging around outside the game.
Ok I figured out how to break the Hanamura turtle on B. Load Junkrat, go to the dead end in the left where you can see that far balcony. Put your mine on the very corner on the ledge that faces it, now leap over it, as you start to fall, blow the mine and you just make the balcony.
You are now behind the Torbs and bastions with a corner to bounce nades off of.
Ok I figured out how to break the Hanamura turtle on B. Load Junkrat, go to the dead end in the left where you can see that far balcony. Put your mine on the very corner on the ledge that faces it, now leap over it, as you start to fall, blow the mine and you just make the balcony.
You are now behind the Torbs and bastions with a corner to bounce nades off of.
Tilts the Shit out of them
Even better is to get a Roadhog on the high perch on the attacker's right side. He can hop down the stairs to hook/kill an unsuspecting support or Bastion trying to law down fire on your team, or yank a sniper from the ledge above the point. Do this in conjunction with a flank from the other side with a Reaper or Tracer while the rest of the team comes in from the front and you can just cause all kinds of havoc. Usually no single person you send in to deal with Roadhog is sufficient, so it buys your team a 5v4 or 4v3 while they deal with their flanks not being secure.
Posts
and for tank vs defense (as suggested with Bastion), i'm gonna guess it comes down to whether you are pulling focus and wading into a fight, or if you are more effective with someone else getting attention. (not having played him) i think Bastion can generally hold his own as part of a group effort, but will quickly melt in the frontline; he differs from a support because he self-buffs only.
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
Tanks: Winston, Reindhart
Bruisers (tanky people who don't provide mad shields/great team defense): D.Va, Roadhog, Zarya (Zarya's debatable but I'd argue she's more of a tank/support than pure tank.
Healers: Lucio, Mercy, maybe Zenny
Buffers/insert fancy name here: Symmetra
It's useful to have the distinction because it helps solve new player confusion (see Symmetra being asked to heal more) and impress upon people better team comps.
This is exactly the point of using already defined terms that people understand when they list categories. Designing around pre-existing biases from other media and games is absolutely a huge part of making the game work well for new players. Who are the people who most need accurate labels they understand on things.
Genji = Daggerman
I am incredibly disappointed that blizzard put Phara in the Warrior-Jumper category even though she's more about flying than jumping. Like seriously they really failed in this regard, players are going to be looking for a jumper on their team and only end up with a kind of Warrior-Flyer which doesn't really fill the role.
I tend to pick last, and go with whatever team need is lacking, but I haven't found one straight up damage dealing guy that I like yet. Still haven't tried Genji, so I guess that's the plan for tonight.
Zam is no longer even pretending to not be The Toast For Video Games
Ah Blizzard, in this crazy mixed up world, at least I never have to worry about you changing.
which is why they differentiated it by labeling it as support instead of heal. some players are assuming 'heal', despite it saying 'support'. as evidenced by them using it, it is an accurate label for what Blizz intends, and it is the reader's assumption otherwise.
and i think there are likely a number of 'new players' coming off of Blizzard properties rather than shootmans. so 'support' is a lot more meaningful as such rather than a cipher for 'heals'.
it would be best if people tried all the characters, or at least looked at the abilities, instead of making assumptions. i'm okay with a company inviting that level of investment and opening up the roles to greater interpretation, especially since so many people hate playing tanks or healers. either because their kit isn't interesting, no one else does it, etc etc. and tanks and healers usually get the blame in a failure.
people yelling for a healer tend to be selfish (rarely will they do it themselves), and i'm interested in a more considered community with less pigeonholing. part of why i burn out on shooters is people getting salty about it -- i like to win, but it's a game, and i can have fun while losing.
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
yeah she's a lot less useful on offense, teleporters are still good if you can actually get your ult charged but it's hard to use sentries if you're the one pushing and you often have shitty flanking options.
SYMMETRA IS RAD
THIS IS THE SYMMETRA IS COOL PAGE
CAN'T STOP IT NOW.
is it Sy-MME-tra or SYM-me-tra
its all coming together
His gun is real good
It seems accurate as all hell
At that point I'd just say "fuck it" and switch over to Torb myself. See what happens.
I was trying out Lucio for the second match in a row
Lucio seems solid
My team was not
Eventually I said "this team doesn't deserve a goddamn support" and switched over to D.va for the last minute of the match
Yes.
I believe teams can have either 2 or 6 of the same character, but not 3, 4, nor 5.
Also Torbs and Symmetra are questionable for offense. The armor, shields, and teleporter are fine, but I feel like they're more for defend/neutral point games.
i've picked off TONS of widowmakers with mccree's gun
it's rad
h o o k e m
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
Steam | Twitter
I THINK that at least on single shots, it is indeed perfectly accurate. Maybe some spread on the fan the hammer shots?
Other things I want the whole world to suddenly understand:
Overtime counts down unless the point/cart is contested.
TOUCH THE CART
NO REALLY TOUCH IT
You can not win just by killing all the mans. I promise you.
Symmetra is da best because her 2 shot goes through rein shields and people so you just spam that down corridors when you feel like it.
Playing with @joeuser ha altered my headcannon so that now Rein is a redpanda in a giant suit of armor.
I'll be on a lot over the weekend, so if anyone wants to add me, feel free.
Thank you. I literally had no idea what triggered any sort of victory in OT.
There's gotta be clans soon, I'm sure.
A feature I'd like to see is an option like Looking for Group but it has a friends-only option so it would be quicker to see who on your friends list wants to group up. Clan channels would probably help this too, so I'll take whichever.
Ilios in a nutshell.
There are seriously so many little unexplained things that I wish they had as tooltips or SOMETHING in game. What does/does not go through a rein shield? What can/can't Genji deflect? Turns out standing behind a toothpick post is enough to protect you from all of a Deva ult, A roadhog pull stops most (all?) "channeled" ults, does a reinhard charge stop ults? What will tracers rewind not undo? Do people realize roadhog can pull bastion out of turret form?
I understand there are/will be wikis for all this, but it really shouldn't take me digging around outside the game.
You are now behind the Torbs and bastions with a corner to bounce nades off of.
Tilts the Shit out of them
Even better is to get a Roadhog on the high perch on the attacker's right side. He can hop down the stairs to hook/kill an unsuspecting support or Bastion trying to law down fire on your team, or yank a sniper from the ledge above the point. Do this in conjunction with a flank from the other side with a Reaper or Tracer while the rest of the team comes in from the front and you can just cause all kinds of havoc. Usually no single person you send in to deal with Roadhog is sufficient, so it buys your team a 5v4 or 4v3 while they deal with their flanks not being secure.