Especially in the face of the largest free to play systems relying on simple purchase first and having gambling mechanics as a secondary aspect. Heck league of legends (which I suppose it's worth pointing out I've put way more money into than I ever will overwatche's) didn't even have boxes till a few months ago and still managed to take in cash with its cosmetics.
aren't ultimate skins in league $30 or something
I would gladly take free random boxes when you level over that bullshit
I don't think you get how shiny those skins are
they're really really shiny
besides, they're not forcing you to get them, there are much cheaper alternatives
Nobody's forcing people to buy loot boxes either, tbf.
I mean, we can get into the psychology of gambling and the sunk cost fallacy
Loot boxes are predatory in a way known quantities aren't
Loot boxes are predatory in a way known quantities aren't
Do you have a resource for this? I don't mean the previous statement in a shitty "oh yeah prove it" sort of way, I'd actually be interested in learning more about this.
I apologize if I accidentally declined anyone from the group in that last game. I was inadvertently made group leader and had no idea what I was doing.
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
Loot boxes are predatory in a way known quantities aren't
Do you have a resource for this? I don't mean the previous statement in a shitty "oh yeah prove it" sort of way, I'd actually be interested in learning more about this.
I think It's more of a values thing. In Japan there was an actual government crackdown on microtransactions loot boxes for cash because they were
a) impossible to get and
b) there was no transparency about your chance to get them
So in that situation there was quite a literal intent to sell someone a product that was unattainable. Proving that it isn't the case or people suspecting that is can be an inherent problem with that model.
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Am I the only one getting super annoyed at the whining over what a company should get to monetize and what it shouldn't?
ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
Then just pretend It's people arguing over what is worth paying money for and what isn't. Consumers can make choices too.
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
ultimate skins in league have vastly more visual alterations than the legendary skins in overwatch
I think they look pretty low res and bad but that's not the point
I guess you can compare them to the next tier down of skin if you want
would you pay $18 for a legendary skin in overwatch because that seems really expensive compared to free over time
If it isn't the point, why mention it? The resolution isn't the thing that's important, it's the level of changes to the character. For the ultimate skins in League sometimes always have to do new particle and visual effects, and new voicework for them, and sometimes they have to change the announcer too like that fancy Ezreal skin, among other things. I don't know if that completely justifies the price tag, but it's a lot more stuff to change and add than the current Legendary skins for Overwatch, which aren't even equivalent to the Legendary skins in League, which now always change particle effects. They're more like the (current) standard alternative skins which change their appearance in ways more than just color, but don't change anything else, which are like $7.50 (975 RP). I would consider maybe throwing down $7.50 for some of the Legendary skins that catch my fancy.
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
Games have been $60 for what 15 years now? What's wrong with monetizing cosmetics to make up for game prices not going up with inflation for almost two decades? Basically every product sold in the world has cosmetic options that you can pay extra for.
If you don't think a particular product is worth charging money for but plenty of other people are willing to buy it then you are objectively wrong,
Loot boxes are predatory in a way known quantities aren't
Do you have a resource for this? I don't mean the previous statement in a shitty "oh yeah prove it" sort of way, I'd actually be interested in learning more about this.
I couldn't find something specifically about buying random loot boxes but this is the gist of it:
Skinner observed that lab mice responded most voraciously to random rewards. The mice would press a lever and sometimes they’d get a small treat, other times a large treat, and other times nothing at all. Unlike the mice that received the same treat every time, the mice that received variable rewards seemed to press the lever compulsively.
The only way to press the lever compulsively in Overwatch is to buy loot boxes because levels don't come all that fast.
ultimate skins in league have vastly more visual alterations than the legendary skins in overwatch
I think they look pretty low res and bad but that's not the point
I guess you can compare them to the next tier down of skin if you want
would you pay $18 for a legendary skin in overwatch because that seems really expensive compared to free over time
If it isn't the point, why mention it? The resolution isn't the thing that's important, it's the level of changes to the character. For the ultimate skins in League sometimes always have to do new particle and visual effects, and new voicework for them, and sometimes they have to change the announcer too like that fancy Ezreal skin, among other things. I don't know if that completely justifies the price tag, but it's a lot more stuff to change and add than the current Legendary skins for Overwatch, which aren't even equivalent to the Legendary skins in League, which now always change particle effects. They're more like the (current) standard alternative skins which change their appearance in ways more than just color, but don't change anything else, which are like $7.50 (975 RP). I would consider maybe throwing down $7.50 for some of the Legendary skins that catch my fancy.
yeah and the legendary skins in overwatch are random too
however you get a bunch of other stuff like poses and voice lines
considering a legendary skin is $10 in overwatch it doesn't seem nearly as egregious as people are making it out to be
plus you can eventually get all of it for free, where in league you have to spend RP to get skins
bunch of new animation, new sound and music, all of her abilities have work done to them and do stuff.
The ultimate skins in LoL are nearly completely new characters in terms of design. And if its someone you play a ton of then its something to work towards. Though you also have a chance to get them as drops in mystery boxes and from the new Hextech Loot System (I got Arcade Sona from that and am building towards an ultimate for another character)
Games have been $60 for what 15 years now? What's wrong with monetizing cosmetics to make up for game prices not going up with inflation for almost two decades? Basically every product sold in the world has cosmetic options that you can pay extra for.
If you don't think a particular product is worth charging money for but plenty of other people are willing to buy it then you are objectively wrong,
Plenty of people are willing to buy the fake Parmesan cheese that can only be legally sold as "grated flavoring," but I'm still not going to buy it at any price point. Not every consumer has the same preference.
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Games have been $60 for what 15 years now? What's wrong with monetizing cosmetics to make up for game prices not going up with inflation for almost two decades? Basically every product sold in the world has cosmetic options that you can pay extra for.
If you don't think a particular product is worth charging money for but plenty of other people are willing to buy it then you are objectively wrong,
The problem isn't that they are selling cosmetic items.
Cause they aren't.
They are selling a blind box with a miniscule chance of having the thing you want in it, which is cruddy and also designed to prey on people that get hooked trying to open the items they want.
Also that is not what objectively means.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
is there a way to opt out of skirmish
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
yeah, there's something in the options you can turn off if you don't want the game to put you into a skirmish while trying to find a match
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
edited June 2016
Anyway just throwing this out here
If the 1600 hour number is real I don't think you free get stuff at a slower rate in hearthstone or heros of the storm. People would probably feel better if the price of a box was half, the rate of experience gain was double, and you got half as many items per box.
For those of you not keeping score at home, that would be just as many items as now but in a different way.
I mean, as it stands the pricing just feels wrong for a blizzard game. There are less items that I actually want from loot boxes than say a hearthstone pack, and the $1.99 for two pack rate just feels awkward. For the expected value of the loot box I'm more price sensitive there than I would be for say a hearthstone pack.
Now if you charged me $1.99 for an xp boost that significantly rewarded wins, medals, and losses, please take my money.
For what It's worth I think this is actually why WoTC started really pushing pre-made decks with a booster on the side and other stuff like that.
Zoel on
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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Lord_AsmodeusgoeticSobriquet:Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered Userregular
In most CCG's you can just straight up buy the cards you want at card shops or online. Even in Hearthstone you can break down stuff you don't want for stuff you do want, and excess cards give more dust than repeat Overwatch stuff gives coins.
Edit: Also you can trade or sell your cards that you don't want in real life.
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
Games have been $60 for what 15 years now? What's wrong with monetizing cosmetics to make up for game prices not going up with inflation for almost two decades? Basically every product sold in the world has cosmetic options that you can pay extra for.
If you don't think a particular product is worth charging money for but plenty of other people are willing to buy it then you are objectively wrong,
The problem isn't that they are selling cosmetic items.
Cause they aren't.
They are selling a blind box with a miniscule chance of having the thing you want in it, which is cruddy and also designed to prey on people that get hooked trying to open the items they want.
Also that is not what objectively means.
If people are willing to pay for those boxes they are worth it and you are OBJECTIVELY wrong
Games have been $60 for what 15 years now? What's wrong with monetizing cosmetics to make up for game prices not going up with inflation for almost two decades? Basically every product sold in the world has cosmetic options that you can pay extra for.
If you don't think a particular product is worth charging money for but plenty of other people are willing to buy it then you are objectively wrong,
The problem isn't that they are selling cosmetic items.
Cause they aren't.
They are selling a blind box with a miniscule chance of having the thing you want in it, which is cruddy and also designed to prey on people that get hooked trying to open the items they want.
Also that is not what objectively means.
If people are willing to pay for those boxes they are worth it and you are OBJECTIVELY wrong
People also gamble themselves into paupers graves, so I guess gambling is always OBJECTIVELY worth it. I mean, they were willing to keep gambling!
Lord_Asmodeus on
Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
In most CCG's you can just straight up buy the cards you want at card shops or online. Even in Hearthstone you can break down stuff you don't want for stuff you do want, and excess cards give more dust than repeat Overwatch stuff gives coins.
Edit: Also you can trade or sell your cards that you don't want in real life.
That's true, overwatch should have a manual disenchant option
Games have been $60 for what 15 years now? What's wrong with monetizing cosmetics to make up for game prices not going up with inflation for almost two decades? Basically every product sold in the world has cosmetic options that you can pay extra for.
If you don't think a particular product is worth charging money for but plenty of other people are willing to buy it then you are objectively wrong,
The problem isn't that they are selling cosmetic items.
Cause they aren't.
They are selling a blind box with a miniscule chance of having the thing you want in it, which is cruddy and also designed to prey on people that get hooked trying to open the items they want.
Also that is not what objectively means.
If people are willing to pay for those boxes they are worth it and you are OBJECTIVELY wrong
People also gamble themselves into paupers graves, so I guess gambling is always OBJECTIVELY worth it. I mean, they were willing to keep gambling!
I mean yes
They are selling something that some people think is worth buying
UnbreakableVow on
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ZoelI suppose... I'd put it onRegistered Userregular
If we start using the word OBJECTIVELY in capital letters I will start typing LITERALLY in capital letters until everyone in the thread is rendered unconscious.
A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
Games have been $60 for what 15 years now? What's wrong with monetizing cosmetics to make up for game prices not going up with inflation for almost two decades? Basically every product sold in the world has cosmetic options that you can pay extra for.
If you don't think a particular product is worth charging money for but plenty of other people are willing to buy it then you are objectively wrong,
The problem isn't that they are selling cosmetic items.
Cause they aren't.
They are selling a blind box with a miniscule chance of having the thing you want in it, which is cruddy and also designed to prey on people that get hooked trying to open the items they want.
Also that is not what objectively means.
If people are willing to pay for those boxes they are worth it and you are OBJECTIVELY wrong
People also gamble themselves into paupers graves, so I guess gambling is always OBJECTIVELY worth it. I mean, they were willing to keep gambling!
are people not allowed to make bad decisions or something
In most CCG's you can just straight up buy the cards you want at card shops or online. Even in Hearthstone you can break down stuff you don't want for stuff you do want, and excess cards give more dust than repeat Overwatch stuff gives coins.
Edit: Also you can trade or sell your cards that you don't want in real life.
That's true, overwatch should have a manual disenchant option
But I mean
They have an automatic one
When you get a duplicate they are dusting it for you and giving you the currency
Posts
I guess you can compare them to the next tier down of skin if you want
would you pay $18 for a legendary skin in overwatch because that seems really expensive compared to free over time
Heck, I just wish the game was on steam.
I mean, we can get into the psychology of gambling and the sunk cost fallacy
Loot boxes are predatory in a way known quantities aren't
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
tbh the big problem is you can use one but there's a shitload in the boxes
I think It's more of a values thing. In Japan there was an actual government crackdown on microtransactions loot boxes for cash because they were
a) impossible to get and
b) there was no transparency about your chance to get them
So in that situation there was quite a literal intent to sell someone a product that was unattainable. Proving that it isn't the case or people suspecting that is can be an inherent problem with that model.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
Yes.
Annoyed by it, eh not so much, I'm used to it by now
But I certainly don't agree with them
Which is fine
Sometimes I get skins in a box.
If I want a particular skin, I buy it with coins.
BFD.
If it isn't the point, why mention it? The resolution isn't the thing that's important, it's the level of changes to the character. For the ultimate skins in League sometimes always have to do new particle and visual effects, and new voicework for them, and sometimes they have to change the announcer too like that fancy Ezreal skin, among other things. I don't know if that completely justifies the price tag, but it's a lot more stuff to change and add than the current Legendary skins for Overwatch, which aren't even equivalent to the Legendary skins in League, which now always change particle effects. They're more like the (current) standard alternative skins which change their appearance in ways more than just color, but don't change anything else, which are like $7.50 (975 RP). I would consider maybe throwing down $7.50 for some of the Legendary skins that catch my fancy.
If you don't think a particular product is worth charging money for but plenty of other people are willing to buy it then you are objectively wrong,
http://www.nirandfar.com/2012/03/want-to-hook-your-users-drive-them-crazy.html
I couldn't find something specifically about buying random loot boxes but this is the gist of it:
The only way to press the lever compulsively in Overwatch is to buy loot boxes because levels don't come all that fast.
3DS: 2019-9671-8106 NNID: RamblinMushroom
Twitter/Tumblr
Also, game crashed right at the end of the a round on Gilbraltar.
however you get a bunch of other stuff like poses and voice lines
considering a legendary skin is $10 in overwatch it doesn't seem nearly as egregious as people are making it out to be
plus you can eventually get all of it for free, where in league you have to spend RP to get skins
Yeah this. Lets look at Sona for example, the most recent (I think) ultimate skin in LoL
Heres a guy playing with the basic Sona skin
Heres her mid price skin, Arcade Sona (its 1300 RP)
Now heres her ultimate skin DJ Sona priced at 3250 RP. Which is like $25 I think
bunch of new animation, new sound and music, all of her abilities have work done to them and do stuff.
The ultimate skins in LoL are nearly completely new characters in terms of design. And if its someone you play a ton of then its something to work towards. Though you also have a chance to get them as drops in mystery boxes and from the new Hextech Loot System (I got Arcade Sona from that and am building towards an ultimate for another character)
Plenty of people are willing to buy the fake Parmesan cheese that can only be legally sold as "grated flavoring," but I'm still not going to buy it at any price point. Not every consumer has the same preference.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
The problem isn't that they are selling cosmetic items.
Cause they aren't.
They are selling a blind box with a miniscule chance of having the thing you want in it, which is cruddy and also designed to prey on people that get hooked trying to open the items they want.
Also that is not what objectively means.
yeah, there's something in the options you can turn off if you don't want the game to put you into a skirmish while trying to find a match
If the 1600 hour number is real I don't think you free get stuff at a slower rate in hearthstone or heros of the storm. People would probably feel better if the price of a box was half, the rate of experience gain was double, and you got half as many items per box.
For those of you not keeping score at home, that would be just as many items as now but in a different way.
I mean, as it stands the pricing just feels wrong for a blizzard game. There are less items that I actually want from loot boxes than say a hearthstone pack, and the $1.99 for two pack rate just feels awkward. For the expected value of the loot box I'm more price sensitive there than I would be for say a hearthstone pack.
Now if you charged me $1.99 for an xp boost that significantly rewarded wins, medals, and losses, please take my money.
For what It's worth I think this is actually why WoTC started really pushing pre-made decks with a booster on the side and other stuff like that.
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
In most CCG's you can just straight up buy the cards you want at card shops or online. Even in Hearthstone you can break down stuff you don't want for stuff you do want, and excess cards give more dust than repeat Overwatch stuff gives coins.
Edit: Also you can trade or sell your cards that you don't want in real life.
Yes I think they're bad. Next question
If people are willing to pay for those boxes they are worth it and you are OBJECTIVELY wrong
consumer purchasing power has not risen at the same rate
People also gamble themselves into paupers graves, so I guess gambling is always OBJECTIVELY worth it. I mean, they were willing to keep gambling!
SNES games were like 80 bucks
I mean yes
They are selling something that some people think is worth buying
However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
if they wanna do it they can do it
But I mean
They have an automatic one
When you get a duplicate they are dusting it for you and giving you the currency