The only side route people seem to utilize on Hanamura B is the little open area where the Genji/Hanzo movie ended. Very few seem to utilize the left side approach that directly overlooks the point. a junkrat and 76 in that area can really clean things up on a coordinated push mostly because people simply refuse to look up.
I think the main reason for that is the one side is a shortcut for a lot of characters, but the other side is the long way around for everyone. A decent defense will have at least one person up there, anyway.
https://gfycat.com/HatefulTightAzurevase
The joy of having a lot of targets once you get Symmerta's gun up to max charge. I was actually kinda steamed this didn't get PoTG, but it went to Hanzo as he triple/quad killed the enemy team as they tried to get to the cart to force overtime so I can't be too mad..
Fondor_Yards on
Secrets, lies, and tragedy. The trifecta.
3DS Code: 5043-2172-1361
Xbone Tag: Salal al Din
Second point was designed to be sniper/McCree dream defence station. It is just awful. Every entrance is just a doorway you can either get sniped through or flash/fanned through. It is the dustbowl 3 of Overwatch. It's probably the only a/d map where I regularly see the defence win. And it's always a 2 McCree minimum.
I have a couple of things I I think would benefit Hanamura. The first: If the left side of the map had an entrance further back so your high-mobility flankers didn't have to enter the center of the arena in the same line of fire as the main entrance, it would be a much more attractive spot. As it stands you're not really going to get behind or beside anybody sniping at your frontline because you have to go through the doorway and then charge them head-on.
The second: If the right side of the map didn't have stairs on the defender's side from the spawn to the high ground, but a sheer drop. High mobility defensive characters could still get up there, but it would offer a route for low-mobility offensive characters to get the drop on enemies (if they didn't get spotted in the very open overhang on the way in).
Wow, yes, truly this caused for such a passive aggressive dickish response.
I typed a more detailed response but frankly you're not worth my time.
I basically never see the offense win anymore unless it's a total roll, tbh. But then I'm a defensive hero specialist so it's trivially easy to lock down Volskaya A (with symmetra)/B, Anubis B, Hollywood A (with symmetra), Numbani A (with symmetra). In fact Hanamura B is one of the points I see go down the most because, while it's the absolute worst point to approach, once you're inside the building it's the hardest to defend because it's the most spacious last point which means defensively popping ults will rarely teamkill. If they engage and wipe with a good Lucio/Zen ult or get a good revive after a mirror wipe, it's just gonna be the defenders funneling in as they respawn to hold off the inevitable, because a Hanzo or Junkrat ult won't clear people out because they have the option to spread out reaaaaally far while still contesting and being in range to quickly contest.
Basically the only ults that work to clear out Hanamura B are Bastion, a sneaky McCree, and a really good Genji. Maybe Zarya, but even with Zarya the fight feels so spread out it might not be possible to catch more than 2-3 of them in a black hole which means their buddies can kill you as your team rushes up and tries to kill the enemies trapped in the hole.
I find Anubis and Hollywood much easier because they have an easy approach. Short areas with lots of cover, it's much easier to group and push with some ults and cap in one go. Hanamura's approach is so rough it's difficult to get even grouped up formations close enough to the point to use ults and make the final push.
Payload maps seem to mostly end in attackers winning for me. Regular A/D maps are probably 70/30. But Hanamura is just miserable even when you win. Either you're on defence and you get a pretty easy time shutting people down as they try and enter one of it's small doorways or windows, or you're offence and clawed you way through the eye of a needle to drop 3 ults on the point and hope they don't get off any good counter ults because then it's back to square 1. It's also the hardest map to go attacking team junkrat because of the length and altitude (a lot of the time you're below the defenders) which I think contributes to the defence encampments being a lot harder to break.
e: psst also tell me your Symmetra positions on Volskaya and Numbani. I only ever play Symmetra on Anubis or Hollywood because I know there are good sentry spots there.
?
I offered suggestions for map changes to Hanamura because I also find the second point immensely frustrating and overly dragged out.
I have legitimately no idea why you are upset.
Because that first part describes the map as it exists? There's a route that goes to the back, ignoring the front door entirely.
EDIT: this is something I've seen people complain about a lot, FWIW; some of the side routes aren't well marked and people don't always notice them. Volskaya A has a left approach that my defending teammate refused to believe exists, for example.
I just loaded up the map because I really wanted to believe there was another route, but I'm not seeing it. As an attacker on Hanamura, I have the option of going in through the front gate or through a little doorway located up and to the left a few meters away. Both dump you into the same courtyard from the same direction, just in a slightly different spot.
Once you're in that courtyard, you can head left and there is a path around behind the objective--but it's seldom relevant because getting through that main door is the hard part anyway.
0
Orphanerivers of redthat run to seaRegistered Userregular
Second point was designed to be sniper/McCree dream defence station. It is just awful. Every entrance is just a doorway you can either get sniped through or flash/fanned through. It is the dustbowl 3 of Overwatch. It's probably the only a/d map where I regularly see the defence win. And it's always a 2 McCree minimum.
I have a couple of things I I think would benefit Hanamura. The first: If the left side of the map had an entrance further back so your high-mobility flankers didn't have to enter the center of the arena in the same line of fire as the main entrance, it would be a much more attractive spot. As it stands you're not really going to get behind or beside anybody sniping at your frontline because you have to go through the doorway and then charge them head-on.
The second: If the right side of the map didn't have stairs on the defender's side from the spawn to the high ground, but a sheer drop. High mobility defensive characters could still get up there, but it would offer a route for low-mobility offensive characters to get the drop on enemies (if they didn't get spotted in the very open overhang on the way in).
Wow, yes, truly this caused for such a passive aggressive dickish response.
I typed a more detailed response but frankly you're not worth my time.
I basically never see the offense win anymore unless it's a total roll, tbh. But then I'm a defensive hero specialist so it's trivially easy to lock down Volskaya A (with symmetra)/B, Anubis B, Hollywood A (with symmetra), Numbani A (with symmetra). In fact Hanamura B is one of the points I see go down the most because, while it's the absolute worst point to approach, once you're inside the building it's the hardest to defend because it's the most spacious last point which means defensively popping ults will rarely teamkill. If they engage and wipe with a good Lucio/Zen ult or get a good revive after a mirror wipe, it's just gonna be the defenders funneling in as they respawn to hold off the inevitable, because a Hanzo or Junkrat ult won't clear people out because they have the option to spread out reaaaaally far while still contesting and being in range to quickly contest.
Basically the only ults that work to clear out Hanamura B are Bastion, a sneaky McCree, and a really good Genji. Maybe Zarya, but even with Zarya the fight feels so spread out it might not be possible to catch more than 2-3 of them in a black hole which means their buddies can kill you as your team rushes up and tries to kill the enemies trapped in the hole.
I find Anubis and Hollywood much easier because they have an easy approach. Short areas with lots of cover, it's much easier to group and push with some ults and cap in one go. Hanamura's approach is so rough it's difficult to get even grouped up formations close enough to the point to use ults and make the final push.
Payload maps seem to mostly end in attackers winning for me. Regular A/D maps are probably 70/30. But Hanamura is just miserable even when you win. Either you're on defence and you get a pretty easy time shutting people down as they try and enter one of it's small doorways or windows, or you're offence and clawed you way through the eye of a needle to drop 3 ults on the point and hope they don't get off any good counter ults because then it's back to square 1. It's also the hardest map to go attacking team junkrat because of the length and altitude (a lot of the time you're below the defenders) which I think contributes to the defence encampments being a lot harder to break.
e: psst also tell me your Symmetra positions on Volskaya and Numbani. I only ever play Symmetra on Anubis or Hollywood because I know there are good sentry spots there.
?
I offered suggestions for map changes to Hanamura because I also find the second point immensely frustrating and overly dragged out.
I have legitimately no idea why you are upset.
Because that first part describes the map as it exists? There's a route that goes to the back, ignoring the front door entirely.
EDIT: this is something I've seen people complain about a lot, FWIW; some of the side routes aren't well marked and people don't always notice them. Volskaya A has a left approach that my defending teammate refused to believe exists, for example.
? As far as i know Hanamura A has 2 possible entrances into the main courtyard at A, one large open door at ground level and a smaller, elevated one to the left of it which is part of the same "wall". Regardless of which door you pass through, you still come into view of anyone who sets up in the courtyard/is standing on the small wooden deck in front of the defense point. There's no way to flank in near-full cover like King's Row or Volskaya (although Volskaya's alternate route is only accessible via certain high mobility characters).
Unless Milski is talking about point B in both of his points, where I believe he's saying that defenders shouldn't easily be able to run up the stairs to the left of spawn to catch attackers who are trying to get on the high terrace on one side of the defense point and the two "frontal" entrances are still both easily within view of defenders standing on the point unless said defenders can fly/blink on to the rightwards patio area - but that still funnels them directly onto the point in view of all the defenders.
If you're D.Va or I guess Pharah you can fly from the hallway in Volskaya Point B to get to the back landing from the side and crush the dreams of Torb/Widow/Hanzo
The best part about people figuring out that there is a side route that avoids the arch on Volskaya A, is that my Mei can shut it down completely and force people to fall to their death.
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again. Then towards the end waiting on that overtime timer is just awful. I get that it should exist, but touching the point should not reset the overtime, simply pause the timer from going down and when the point is cleared it should start again from where it left off.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I hope so. I'm willing to sort of shrug off the "needing ammo isn't fun!" thing. Though it leads to a lot of literal endless spamming of doorways and while I don't think ammo should be super limited, it would be nice if it was a resource to be managed the same as armor/hp. If you want to just shoot grenades/missiles/arrows at a doorway for 5 minutes, with an ult every 45 seconds because you incidentally hit someone a few times it should require going to pick up some ammo or getting some support after the 80th grenade/missile/arrow.
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I hope so. I'm willing to sort of shrug off the "needing ammo isn't fun!" thing. Though it leads to a lot of literal endless spamming of doorways and while I don't think ammo should be super limited, it would be nice if it was a resource to be managed the same as armor/hp. If you want to just shoot grenades/missiles/arrows at a doorway for 5 minutes, with an ult every 45 seconds because you incidentally hit someone a few times it should require going to pick up some ammo or getting some support after the 80th grenade/missile/arrow.
Collecting ammo would present a huge advantage for offenses.
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I hope so. I'm willing to sort of shrug off the "needing ammo isn't fun!" thing. Though it leads to a lot of literal endless spamming of doorways and while I don't think ammo should be super limited, it would be nice if it was a resource to be managed the same as armor/hp. If you want to just shoot grenades/missiles/arrows at a doorway for 5 minutes, with an ult every 45 seconds because you incidentally hit someone a few times it should require going to pick up some ammo or getting some support after the 80th grenade/missile/arrow.
Collecting ammo would present a huge advantage for offenses.
Would people on offense not need to shoot their weapons? It just means you would have to balance maps in such a way that Junkrat holding down left click and aiming vaguely at a doorway for 3 minutes isn't part of the gameplay. I'm okay with that. It would be pretty easy to have a hero who utilizes ammo giving as a means of support, too.
dispatch.o on
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I hope so. I'm willing to sort of shrug off the "needing ammo isn't fun!" thing. Though it leads to a lot of literal endless spamming of doorways and while I don't think ammo should be super limited, it would be nice if it was a resource to be managed the same as armor/hp. If you want to just shoot grenades/missiles/arrows at a doorway for 5 minutes, with an ult every 45 seconds because you incidentally hit someone a few times it should require going to pick up some ammo or getting some support after the 80th grenade/missile/arrow.
Collecting ammo would present a huge advantage for offenses.
Would people on offense not need to shoot their weapons? It just means you would have to balance maps in such a way that Junkrat holding down left click and aiming vaguely at a doorway for 3 minutes isn't part of the gameplay. I'm okay with that. It would be pretty easy to have a hero who utilizes ammo giving as a means of support, too.
The way Overwatch is set up, it's a lot easier to crack a defense with 1 killer play than it is to stop an assault with 1 killer play... and once a defense is cracked it is extremely difficult to get it back up.
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I hope so. I'm willing to sort of shrug off the "needing ammo isn't fun!" thing. Though it leads to a lot of literal endless spamming of doorways and while I don't think ammo should be super limited, it would be nice if it was a resource to be managed the same as armor/hp. If you want to just shoot grenades/missiles/arrows at a doorway for 5 minutes, with an ult every 45 seconds because you incidentally hit someone a few times it should require going to pick up some ammo or getting some support after the 80th grenade/missile/arrow.
Collecting ammo would present a huge advantage for offenses.
Would people on offense not need to shoot their weapons? It just means you would have to balance maps in such a way that Junkrat holding down left click and aiming vaguely at a doorway for 3 minutes isn't part of the gameplay. I'm okay with that. It would be pretty easy to have a hero who utilizes ammo giving as a means of support, too.
The way Overwatch is set up, it's a lot easier to crack a defense with 1 killer play than it is to stop an assault with 1 killer play... and once a defense is cracked it is extremely difficult to get it back up.
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I hope so. I'm willing to sort of shrug off the "needing ammo isn't fun!" thing. Though it leads to a lot of literal endless spamming of doorways and while I don't think ammo should be super limited, it would be nice if it was a resource to be managed the same as armor/hp. If you want to just shoot grenades/missiles/arrows at a doorway for 5 minutes, with an ult every 45 seconds because you incidentally hit someone a few times it should require going to pick up some ammo or getting some support after the 80th grenade/missile/arrow.
Collecting ammo would present a huge advantage for offenses.
Would people on offense not need to shoot their weapons? It just means you would have to balance maps in such a way that Junkrat holding down left click and aiming vaguely at a doorway for 3 minutes isn't part of the gameplay. I'm okay with that. It would be pretty easy to have a hero who utilizes ammo giving as a means of support, too.
The way Overwatch is set up, it's a lot easier to crack a defense with 1 killer play than it is to stop an assault with 1 killer play... and once a defense is cracked it is extremely difficult to get it back up.
Yeah. Defense wins by losing slowly.
Bingo, now you've got a contest on who can attack the least until a certain point in order to conserve ammo for a large takeover.
In other words, you just turned it into Call of Duty.
0
jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
I like unlimited ammo because its different than other games. That's it.
The games dynamics are based heavily on unlimited ammo.
I know from experience that Pharrah can use her rocket spam to cut off certain points of attack, even if the rockets aren't hitting anything. This leaves other avenues open for the opposing team and allows Pharrah's team to concentrate on one less area of the map.
For maps that only have 1 real entryway, like Anubis, it can make a world of difference if you've cleared off a sniping platform because you're unloading dozens of projectiles towards that area.
I really don't understand the shift in map design away from playing the whole map as a single thing. Checkpoints and whatnot really squash some parts of the maps that may be very fun to play in down to a few minutes tops.
There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I hope so. I'm willing to sort of shrug off the "needing ammo isn't fun!" thing. Though it leads to a lot of literal endless spamming of doorways and while I don't think ammo should be super limited, it would be nice if it was a resource to be managed the same as armor/hp. If you want to just shoot grenades/missiles/arrows at a doorway for 5 minutes, with an ult every 45 seconds because you incidentally hit someone a few times it should require going to pick up some ammo or getting some support after the 80th grenade/missile/arrow.
Collecting ammo would present a huge advantage for offenses.
Would people on offense not need to shoot their weapons? It just means you would have to balance maps in such a way that Junkrat holding down left click and aiming vaguely at a doorway for 3 minutes isn't part of the gameplay. I'm okay with that. It would be pretty easy to have a hero who utilizes ammo giving as a means of support, too.
The way Overwatch is set up, it's a lot easier to crack a defense with 1 killer play than it is to stop an assault with 1 killer play... and once a defense is cracked it is extremely difficult to get it back up.
Yeah. Defense wins by losing slowly.
Bingo, now you've got a contest on who can attack the least until a certain point in order to conserve ammo for a large takeover.
In other words, you just turned it into Call of Duty.
....yes because Threewave ctf was Call of Duty. As was TF2.
Losing slowly is not winning. Which is what the current map design already is. Infinite ammo is perfectly fine if level design is interesting enough. Right now it isn't. The maps are very pretty and some have nice verticality, they play okay with character balance being what it is.
Eventually I just hope Blizzard spends less time on loot box items and more on improving current maps and innovative future maps. The cult of personality that Blizzard has guarantees Overwatch lasts. Why not hope they innovative instead of hats, costumes and versions of the Overwatch logo as sprays.
I like the way Force is there saying, "Wall riding doesn't do him much good!", when the guy had about four people attacking him and survived for ages, then as soon as Force gets separated from his team he gets chased down easy by one Widowmaker. Maybe there's something to learn in this ; )
unlimited ammo is fine but they should put longer reloads on junkrat / pharah to discourage explosive spamming
not for balance reason but the principle of the thing
Heh, I thought the same thing about Gods of Egypt. I dont think it counts if its public domain; they could have called it Anubis and got away with it. But now I want her to have a Jehuty skin.
Also, D.VA's interface needs to switch from a generic Kpop bunny to Kakao Friends.
Pharah does have a skin called Anubis. It's a black version of the one in that picture.
Second point was designed to be sniper/McCree dream defence station. It is just awful. Every entrance is just a doorway you can either get sniped through or flash/fanned through. It is the dustbowl 3 of Overwatch. It's probably the only a/d map where I regularly see the defence win. And it's always a 2 McCree minimum.
I have a couple of things I I think would benefit Hanamura. The first: If the left side of the map had an entrance further back so your high-mobility flankers didn't have to enter the center of the arena in the same line of fire as the main entrance, it would be a much more attractive spot. As it stands you're not really going to get behind or beside anybody sniping at your frontline because you have to go through the doorway and then charge them head-on.
The second: If the right side of the map didn't have stairs on the defender's side from the spawn to the high ground, but a sheer drop. High mobility defensive characters could still get up there, but it would offer a route for low-mobility offensive characters to get the drop on enemies (if they didn't get spotted in the very open overhang on the way in).
Wow, yes, truly this caused for such a passive aggressive dickish response.
I typed a more detailed response but frankly you're not worth my time.
I basically never see the offense win anymore unless it's a total roll, tbh. But then I'm a defensive hero specialist so it's trivially easy to lock down Volskaya A (with symmetra)/B, Anubis B, Hollywood A (with symmetra), Numbani A (with symmetra). In fact Hanamura B is one of the points I see go down the most because, while it's the absolute worst point to approach, once you're inside the building it's the hardest to defend because it's the most spacious last point which means defensively popping ults will rarely teamkill. If they engage and wipe with a good Lucio/Zen ult or get a good revive after a mirror wipe, it's just gonna be the defenders funneling in as they respawn to hold off the inevitable, because a Hanzo or Junkrat ult won't clear people out because they have the option to spread out reaaaaally far while still contesting and being in range to quickly contest.
Basically the only ults that work to clear out Hanamura B are Bastion, a sneaky McCree, and a really good Genji. Maybe Zarya, but even with Zarya the fight feels so spread out it might not be possible to catch more than 2-3 of them in a black hole which means their buddies can kill you as your team rushes up and tries to kill the enemies trapped in the hole.
I find Anubis and Hollywood much easier because they have an easy approach. Short areas with lots of cover, it's much easier to group and push with some ults and cap in one go. Hanamura's approach is so rough it's difficult to get even grouped up formations close enough to the point to use ults and make the final push.
Payload maps seem to mostly end in attackers winning for me. Regular A/D maps are probably 70/30. But Hanamura is just miserable even when you win. Either you're on defence and you get a pretty easy time shutting people down as they try and enter one of it's small doorways or windows, or you're offence and clawed you way through the eye of a needle to drop 3 ults on the point and hope they don't get off any good counter ults because then it's back to square 1. It's also the hardest map to go attacking team junkrat because of the length and altitude (a lot of the time you're below the defenders) which I think contributes to the defence encampments being a lot harder to break.
e: psst also tell me your Symmetra positions on Volskaya and Numbani. I only ever play Symmetra on Anubis or Hollywood because I know there are good sentry spots there.
?
I offered suggestions for map changes to Hanamura because I also find the second point immensely frustrating and overly dragged out.
I have legitimately no idea why you are upset.
Because that first part describes the map as it exists? There's a route that goes to the back, ignoring the front door entirely.
EDIT: this is something I've seen people complain about a lot, FWIW; some of the side routes aren't well marked and people don't always notice them. Volskaya A has a left approach that my defending teammate refused to believe exists, for example.
There is a part that goes to the back on the right side, yes. On the left side, the "back" route still routes you back to the center of the area, not the actual backline. It's pretty bad for flanking in that sense because the enemy team will almost always be far enough back you're still just as visible as if you used the main entrance.
I hope Blizzard keeps going what they're doing because Overwatch is a fun game that I have fun playing.
With you 100%. The only complaints I have with it have everything to do with other players. I love just about everything about the game, every character, every map.
Now, if I could only figure out a way to effectively reach out to every fuck head in quick match to tell them that the Reinhart that keeps announcing "Group up on me" only to drop his shields in the middle of a push to the point, thus making us all vulnerable to every god damn defender while he swings a fire strike at no one in particular, is an unbelievable dick move and that you need to settle with a crappy K/D ratio if you're going to play that character. The shield is important.
OR
If I could somehow get a message out to my team that leaving the objective up to me and one other person who, you know, insist on playing the game while they death match makes the game suck for everyone.
OR
Stop overplaying your hand, team. Sure, we not only held them off the point in Lijiang Tower but we were at 75% when you all decided to camp their spawn and when they inevitably broke through the line and made it back to the point, they found that Lucio (me) was the only one holding down the objective. We spent the rest of the match dealing with their rather effective point defense. Thanks, idiots.
Good god, do I need a group of regulars to play with...
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
If there was limited ammo I would not play this game.
I mean there are games where that is fine, but I never find it fun. In single player I can tolerate it like I tolerate nintendo hard games like battletoads. In multiplayer its annoying as shit and often I will lose the game just because I cannot find ammo. That is the absolute opposite of fun. And I say this having always taken a lot of pride in things like mana management in MMOs. But mana comes back naturally (or with easily stocked potions), not needing you to memorize hidden locations on a sprawling map or even worse, requiring you to kill things with your complete lack of ammo.
The spamming down a hallway thing is a legit gripe, but I am WAY more willing to deal with that than having to hunt for ammo instead of play the game.
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I think the main reason for that is the one side is a shortcut for a lot of characters, but the other side is the long way around for everyone. A decent defense will have at least one person up there, anyway.
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The other team was not happy about this PoTG.
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The joy of having a lot of targets once you get Symmerta's gun up to max charge. I was actually kinda steamed this didn't get PoTG, but it went to Hanzo as he triple/quad killed the enemy team as they tried to get to the cart to force overtime so I can't be too mad..
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Once you're in that courtyard, you can head left and there is a path around behind the objective--but it's seldom relevant because getting through that main door is the hard part anyway.
? As far as i know Hanamura A has 2 possible entrances into the main courtyard at A, one large open door at ground level and a smaller, elevated one to the left of it which is part of the same "wall". Regardless of which door you pass through, you still come into view of anyone who sets up in the courtyard/is standing on the small wooden deck in front of the defense point. There's no way to flank in near-full cover like King's Row or Volskaya (although Volskaya's alternate route is only accessible via certain high mobility characters).
Unless Milski is talking about point B in both of his points, where I believe he's saying that defenders shouldn't easily be able to run up the stairs to the left of spawn to catch attackers who are trying to get on the high terrace on one side of the defense point and the two "frontal" entrances are still both easily within view of defenders standing on the point unless said defenders can fly/blink on to the rightwards patio area - but that still funnels them directly onto the point in view of all the defenders.
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There shouldn't ever be a reason for an entire team to effectively be waiting around in one room. Even if you checkpoint maps and break them up the way they have... having half the players waiting around to get rolled or hold their ground isn't much fun. The best you can do on defense feels way more like trying to lose as slowly as possible. It never feels like winning. Everyone babysitting ults for one big push and then a mercy rez and then try again. Then towards the end waiting on that overtime timer is just awful. I get that it should exist, but touching the point should not reset the overtime, simply pause the timer from going down and when the point is cleared it should start again from where it left off.
The fighting is fun but I want more of the map to play around in. Babysitting a trolly or sitting in a choke point waiting on the trolly is meh for everyone except skirmishers. I really hope they make some maps that deviate heavily from the current formula. Domination or capture the flag with actual multi route maps... anything else really.
Considering the kind of work Blizz has done, I think the fact that the maps are "simple" (gameplay-wise, not layout-wise) is more to ease people into learning both the characters, gameplay and maps. I don't doubt we'll later see some more complex maps that require you to split up, maybe, or needing to have someone stand in a different place to open the door for the payload, etc.
I hope so. I'm willing to sort of shrug off the "needing ammo isn't fun!" thing. Though it leads to a lot of literal endless spamming of doorways and while I don't think ammo should be super limited, it would be nice if it was a resource to be managed the same as armor/hp. If you want to just shoot grenades/missiles/arrows at a doorway for 5 minutes, with an ult every 45 seconds because you incidentally hit someone a few times it should require going to pick up some ammo or getting some support after the 80th grenade/missile/arrow.
Collecting ammo would present a huge advantage for offenses.
Would people on offense not need to shoot their weapons? It just means you would have to balance maps in such a way that Junkrat holding down left click and aiming vaguely at a doorway for 3 minutes isn't part of the gameplay. I'm okay with that. It would be pretty easy to have a hero who utilizes ammo giving as a means of support, too.
The way Overwatch is set up, it's a lot easier to crack a defense with 1 killer play than it is to stop an assault with 1 killer play... and once a defense is cracked it is extremely difficult to get it back up.
Yeah. Defense wins by losing slowly.
Bingo, now you've got a contest on who can attack the least until a certain point in order to conserve ammo for a large takeover.
In other words, you just turned it into Call of Duty.
The games dynamics are based heavily on unlimited ammo.
I know from experience that Pharrah can use her rocket spam to cut off certain points of attack, even if the rockets aren't hitting anything. This leaves other avenues open for the opposing team and allows Pharrah's team to concentrate on one less area of the map.
For maps that only have 1 real entryway, like Anubis, it can make a world of difference if you've cleared off a sniping platform because you're unloading dozens of projectiles towards that area.
....yes because Threewave ctf was Call of Duty. As was TF2.
Losing slowly is not winning. Which is what the current map design already is. Infinite ammo is perfectly fine if level design is interesting enough. Right now it isn't. The maps are very pretty and some have nice verticality, they play okay with character balance being what it is.
Eventually I just hope Blizzard spends less time on loot box items and more on improving current maps and innovative future maps. The cult of personality that Blizzard has guarantees Overwatch lasts. Why not hope they innovative instead of hats, costumes and versions of the Overwatch logo as sprays.
The sound crew working to get those extra lines just right likely slowed matters down a ton, too.
We can basically blame them for that one sided window wall right there.
I think that was the best game of OW I ever managed. Just completely stopped the payload as it started to come past the fountain.
God its satisfying to see an enemy push start flooding down a road and be able to go NOPE YOU'RE NOT DOING THAT and completely stop everyone.
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That speed buff for two killed me
not for balance reason but the principle of the thing
Pharah does have a skin called Anubis. It's a black version of the one in that picture.
There is a part that goes to the back on the right side, yes. On the left side, the "back" route still routes you back to the center of the area, not the actual backline. It's pretty bad for flanking in that sense because the enemy team will almost always be far enough back you're still just as visible as if you used the main entrance.
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Yuuup. Even if you just stick to quoting his in-game lines, there's a gold mine there.
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With you 100%. The only complaints I have with it have everything to do with other players. I love just about everything about the game, every character, every map.
Now, if I could only figure out a way to effectively reach out to every fuck head in quick match to tell them that the Reinhart that keeps announcing "Group up on me" only to drop his shields in the middle of a push to the point, thus making us all vulnerable to every god damn defender while he swings a fire strike at no one in particular, is an unbelievable dick move and that you need to settle with a crappy K/D ratio if you're going to play that character. The shield is important.
OR
If I could somehow get a message out to my team that leaving the objective up to me and one other person who, you know, insist on playing the game while they death match makes the game suck for everyone.
OR
Stop overplaying your hand, team. Sure, we not only held them off the point in Lijiang Tower but we were at 75% when you all decided to camp their spawn and when they inevitably broke through the line and made it back to the point, they found that Lucio (me) was the only one holding down the objective. We spent the rest of the match dealing with their rather effective point defense. Thanks, idiots.
Good god, do I need a group of regulars to play with...
Currently playing the F out of: Overwatch
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I mean there are games where that is fine, but I never find it fun. In single player I can tolerate it like I tolerate nintendo hard games like battletoads. In multiplayer its annoying as shit and often I will lose the game just because I cannot find ammo. That is the absolute opposite of fun. And I say this having always taken a lot of pride in things like mana management in MMOs. But mana comes back naturally (or with easily stocked potions), not needing you to memorize hidden locations on a sprawling map or even worse, requiring you to kill things with your complete lack of ammo.
The spamming down a hallway thing is a legit gripe, but I am WAY more willing to deal with that than having to hunt for ammo instead of play the game.
Me, either. I just cannot get the hang of him. I get smeared on the regular by Genjis so there's some fundamental mechanic that I'm missing out on.
Currently playing the F out of: Overwatch
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