It wouldn't be as frustrating if there were more than like 3 t7 cabs in the whole of north america
This was like, my whole problem with Tekken 7 at Evo.
"Hey look! Here's a game that an American has ABSOLUTLY NO HOPE TO WIN OR EVEN TOP 16 SINCE WE CAN'T REALLY EVEN FUCKIN PLAY IT. Have fun Japan and Korea I guess?".
But it's okay, I am going to ball this rage, and when T7 hits Evo next year I will go 0-2 in peace because I at least was able to practice beforehand.
I agree with Knob it's a tough pill to swallow waiting for the game that I've been watching people play for so long already
but at least it's finally confirmed for sure for PC so if they don't fuck up the netcode I'll have a real hot ass Tekken experience on my primary system
Just gotta figure out what to do until then. Maybe I'll take up knitting or learn another language
Seems it's only slightly faster. The first one at least doesn't push the opponent away full screen, but then the other one does push pretty far away. I wonder if that's character specific or a choice for the player. Kind of interesting if it's a choice, otherwise I'm pretty disappointed overall
Do any of you more savvy fellas know what made SFVs rollback netcode allow for two different connection experiences in the same match? That shit killed my interest in playing right quick and I don't know what's up with it
I can't deal with the paranoia of wondering if the match looks worse on my opponents screen
+1
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
Do any of you more savvy fellas know what made SFVs rollback netcode allow for two different connection experiences in the same match? That shit killed my interest in playing right quick and I don't know what's up with it
I can't deal with the paranoia of wondering if the match looks worse on my opponents screen
essentially the game would pick one player to work as the "server"
so as the server player you would experience little to no network latency, and the other "client" player would roll back to stay synced with your game
on PC you could swap yourself into being the "server" player by alt-tabbing in laggy games
Is that still the case? I thought they patched that. What about the games where both people have rollbacks/jitters but with different severity? That doesn't make sense if one is the host, does it?
I'm wondering if it's sort of like how KoF 13 had that desync problem where the match could reward a K.O to both players, resulting in the players playing different matchups in the same game the next round
If I had to guess, SFV gets desynced and then arbitrarily picks the same players game state to resolve the issue over and over again, resulting in one player being the source of truth. It sounded like there's some issues with differing framerates messing things up (like if one machine drops a frame or two and the other doesn't things are immediately out of sync).
Someone would have to dig through the netcode to really figure it out. The alt tab thing makes sense in a handful of very specific situations when the lag is being caused by inconsistent frame rates... as alt-tabbing fixed a handful of weird framerate bugs as well.
8f input lag means absolutely nothing to me, and it didn't mean anything to anyone else until some salty commentators wouldn't stop talking about it and now it's the cause of everything wrong apparently.
Yet the good players keep winning.
Everyday we stray further from God's light Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
8f input lag means absolutely nothing to me, and it didn't mean anything to anyone else until some salty commentators wouldn't stop talking about it and now it's the cause of everything wrong apparently.
Yet the good players keep winning.
8f of input delay absolutely "means something", even if it doesn't matter to you!
+2
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
edited June 2016
I know I post a lot of negative stuff about the game and Capcom, but I hope I don't give the wrong impression that I don't like SFV.
I like SFV a lot! It's good! Definitely better than SF4. I honestly still feel like the gameplay is cool and fun and good. Everything else, garbage fire. But just PLAYING the game, it's good!
Most of these complaints/problems with the game don't even really apply at our level. I just think people should be careful not to subconsciously project their frustration at the difficulty of fighting games onto the gameplay of fighting games, that's all.
RE: 8f, SF4 had 5 frames, so it's actually just 3f extra. But those 3f means that basically anytime you get counterhit anti-airing, you should have beat it clean. When you barely miss your whiff punish, you should have hit that whiff punish (though, with the hit/hurtbox designs in this game, it's pretty clear they don't want a strong whiff punish game in SFV). And so on. Like, it matters. But getting better actually matters way more, no one on our level (or really, any level) loses because of 3f extra lag. It's just super frustrating when it happens to you and you trade after a jumpin/dashin and you just KNOW that the game screwed you out of your reaction and it's easy to get put on tilt as a result. Snake Eyez, yeah, he's struggling with the game, but his whole game in SF4 was based on a very, VERY whiffpunish heavy style that he converted off of. You don't have that in this game, period. And it's not to do with the input lag so much as the base level design to shift the focus away from very risky footsies to a more free-flow, momentum-based game.
It really just makes certain things worse and other things better. Generally defensive play ends up worse cause you can't react to things you otherwise could and certain kinds of agression/mixups get better because you can make people guess whereas if there was less delay a really practiced/fast person could react and answer appropriately.
It's really weird because if PC is any indication they could fix the delay issue by disabling v-sync on PS4 and it'd be around 4-5 frames which is what SF4 was.
Or yeah if it's intentional it's so online play has a bit of an extra buffer to work with re-input delay... make offline play like online and your online play is a perfect offline experience now!
@Wimble I didn't really think through what you were asking before but the desync thing isn't specific to rollback netcode and GGPO has generally been proven to be really solid so I wouldn't expect any of the issues from SFV to end up in Injustice.
I know I post a lot of negative stuff about the game and Capcom, but I hope I don't give the wrong impression that I don't like SFV.
I like SFV a lot! It's good! Definitely better than SF4. I honestly still feel like the gameplay is cool and fun and good. Everything else, garbage fire. But just PLAYING the game, it's good!
Most of these complaints/problems with the game don't even really apply at our level. I just think people should be careful not to subconsciously project their frustration at the difficulty of fighting games onto the gameplay of fighting games, that's all.
I definitely do agree with this. It's fun to talk shit about eight frames or whatever, but my biggest actual issue with it is the fact that Capcom US had to say they were looking into it, which apparently meant getting Capcom JP to ask Dimps, then make a statement on a japanese Topanga stream that it was intended all along
And this is right after Capcom shit the bed re: sponsorship in tournaments, missed an update, and failed to message it correctly
It really just makes certain things worse and other things better. Generally defensive play ends up worse cause you can't react to things you otherwise could and certain kinds of agression/mixups get better because you can make people guess whereas if there was less delay a really practiced/fast person could react and answer appropriately.
It's really weird because if PC is any indication they could fix the delay issue by disabling v-sync on PS4 and it'd be around 4-5 frames which is what SF4 was.
Or yeah if it's intentional it's so online play has a bit of an extra buffer to work with re-input delay... make offline play like online and your online play is a perfect offline experience now!
@Wimble I didn't really think through what you were asking before but the desync thing isn't specific to rollback netcode and GGPO has generally been proven to be really solid so I wouldn't expect any of the issues from SFV to end up in Injustice.
There are frame wizards who have gotten SFV PC down to 1f of input delay through disabling vsync, using keyboard inputs, and other stuff
0
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
I know I post a lot of negative stuff about the game and Capcom, but I hope I don't give the wrong impression that I don't like SFV.
I like SFV a lot! It's good! Definitely better than SF4. I honestly still feel like the gameplay is cool and fun and good. Everything else, garbage fire. But just PLAYING the game, it's good!
Most of these complaints/problems with the game don't even really apply at our level. I just think people should be careful not to subconsciously project their frustration at the difficulty of fighting games onto the gameplay of fighting games, that's all.
I definitely do agree with this. It's fun to talk shit about eight frames or whatever, but my biggest actual issue with it is the fact that Capcom US had to say they were looking into it, which apparently meant getting Capcom JP to ask Dimps, then make a statement on a japanese Topanga stream that it was intended all along
And this is right after Capcom shit the bed re: sponsorship in tournaments, missed an update, and failed to message it correctly
They don't know what they're doing
Yeah, I definitely agree with that too. Like I said, everything else, garbage fire.
I feel bad for Capcom too. They were like, half a step from bankruptcy not too long ago, and maybe not too long from now either. If RE7 doesn't nail it, they're fucking done. You're not gonna get the support a cash-rich company can muster up. It doesn't matter to the consumer, who were sold a bill of goods, but I guess I just had lowered expectations from knowing that.
Euphemon on
0
Euphemonitsudemo sagashiteiruyodokka ni kimi no sugata woRegistered Userregular
It really just makes certain things worse and other things better. Generally defensive play ends up worse cause you can't react to things you otherwise could and certain kinds of agression/mixups get better because you can make people guess whereas if there was less delay a really practiced/fast person could react and answer appropriately.
It's really weird because if PC is any indication they could fix the delay issue by disabling v-sync on PS4 and it'd be around 4-5 frames which is what SF4 was.
Or yeah if it's intentional it's so online play has a bit of an extra buffer to work with re-input delay... make offline play like online and your online play is a perfect offline experience now!
@Wimble I didn't really think through what you were asking before but the desync thing isn't specific to rollback netcode and GGPO has generally been proven to be really solid so I wouldn't expect any of the issues from SFV to end up in Injustice.
That's almost definitely what it is, which is why, even with v-sync off, online play is consistent at 8f of delay.
+1
FaranguI am a beardy manWith a beardy planRegistered Userregular
I was a bit suspicious when I saw a few videos.. I think Maximilian stuff where he was like "Finally capcom acknowledged this is an unintended issue".. and then he's linking like a tweet from a customer service guy who clearly doesn't know anything and is just saying he'll pass it along to the dev team.
8 frames is potentially a big deal though.
I'm pretty trash and for example I got to the point in SF4 where I could blanka slide fireballs on reaction (which is basically a punish if you're spaced correctly) but it was reaaaaal close and was impossible to do online, even in a game I'd otherwise consider to be pretty perfect connection wise (for SF4 anyway).
So for example with that particular interaction, "blanka can punish me for free from half of the screen if I fireball" becomes "blanka has to guess and do an unsafe slide move randomly that I can punish if I block, if he wants to beat out my fireball here". That's a pretty big difference in how the match-up plays out.
I always figured 8F was by design, interestingly though, they cited netplay as the reason, so I wonder if they attempt to compensate for lag by reducing the number of input frame delays by predictive analysis. if they did.... that would be way cool, but I doubt it somehow.
I believe they wrote their game forgetting that 144hz monitors are a thing and I believe they fucked up their frame counter on that basis. I think the netplay is also bound into this frame counter which is why cross-play is not always, but occasionally, complete and total dick
because when you have a server chopping wood at 144hz and a PS4 just barely handling 60FPS... its very easy for me to concoct scenarios where shit would go south, and you'd get asymmetric experiences.
8f input lag means absolutely nothing to me, and it didn't mean anything to anyone else until some salty commentators wouldn't stop talking about it and now it's the cause of everything wrong apparently.
Yet the good players keep winning.
8f of input delay absolutely "means something", even if it doesn't matter to you!
I meant no one complained about how the game felt laggy and then some mouthpiece on a stream went 8 frames of input lag and now it's the excuse literally any time someone misses something.
Not even anyone specifically in this thread, I'm just sick of it being the catchall.
Everyday we stray further from God's light Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah. There is a bit of a placebo effect going on with the whole 8 frames(or rather 7.2 frames) controversy.
And it isn't to say it might not have an effect but if you give a people an excuse boy are they gonna use it.
There was a period where people were saying so-and-so wasn't a real mix-up according to the numbers, like Bison's dash-up throw, but they were working anyway so people were wondering what was going on; and I had a few moments where I wondered if maybe my monitor had some display lag, so it was definitely having a noticeable effect before the cause was discovered.
@Wimble I didn't really think through what you were asking before but the desync thing isn't specific to rollback netcode and GGPO has generally been proven to be really solid so I wouldn't expect any of the issues from SFV to end up in Injustice.
Yeah that's what I'm expecting/hoping. Only steps remaining is finding a character that seems as cool as green arrow or catwoman did in the first one and then to figure out how to be social on consoles
anyone got any experience with using powerline adapters instead of a direct-to-modem ethernet connection for online play? Is it just as good, almost as good? worse than wifi? I would really like to do away with my cadre of 150ft ethernet cables
Just not quite the game than most of us wanted. There is always space in Guilty Gear and KI!
I have been putting some more time into KI. I want to like Kira, but I'm too aggressive and end up killing myself with her more often than not.
I tried Kira but couldn't manage the risk/reward either. Tusk was fun but he was even slower than Thunder.
For some reason when Raam came out my Xbox decided that it needed to redownload the entire game. I think that it is up and running again.
It was like a 26gb update... And my guess is they just dumped a bunch of Shadow Lords stuff on us. There's supposed to be a stream later today that gives Shadow Lords details.
anyone got any experience with using powerline adapters instead of a direct-to-modem ethernet connection for online play? Is it just as good, almost as good? worse than wifi? I would really like to do away with my cadre of 150ft ethernet cables
I haven't actually tried it myself so take this with a grain of salt, but everything I've read implies it's better than wireless (unless your electrical system is old and shitty wiring) but worse than a real lan cable. Which sounds about right honestly.
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
I'll be at CEO next week, entering BB and Catherine(yes Catherine). Wish me luck against Dacid, I'm gonna need it.
Posts
This was like, my whole problem with Tekken 7 at Evo.
"Hey look! Here's a game that an American has ABSOLUTLY NO HOPE TO WIN OR EVEN TOP 16 SINCE WE CAN'T REALLY EVEN FUCKIN PLAY IT. Have fun Japan and Korea I guess?".
But it's okay, I am going to ball this rage, and when T7 hits Evo next year I will go 0-2 in peace because I at least was able to practice beforehand.
but at least it's finally confirmed for sure for PC so if they don't fuck up the netcode I'll have a real hot ass Tekken experience on my primary system
Just gotta figure out what to do until then. Maybe I'll take up knitting or learn another language
Wager system at 1:15 and 2:35
Seems it's only slightly faster. The first one at least doesn't push the opponent away full screen, but then the other one does push pretty far away. I wonder if that's character specific or a choice for the player. Kind of interesting if it's a choice, otherwise I'm pretty disappointed overall
they talked about kof for 50 minutes
I'm back in on NRS
Chicago Megagame group
Watch me struggle to learn streaming! Point and laugh!
ATROCITUS CAN FIGHT WITH A KITTY
Do any of you more savvy fellas know what made SFVs rollback netcode allow for two different connection experiences in the same match? That shit killed my interest in playing right quick and I don't know what's up with it
I can't deal with the paranoia of wondering if the match looks worse on my opponents screen
essentially the game would pick one player to work as the "server"
so as the server player you would experience little to no network latency, and the other "client" player would roll back to stay synced with your game
on PC you could swap yourself into being the "server" player by alt-tabbing in laggy games
I'm wondering if it's sort of like how KoF 13 had that desync problem where the match could reward a K.O to both players, resulting in the players playing different matchups in the same game the next round
Someone would have to dig through the netcode to really figure it out. The alt tab thing makes sense in a handful of very specific situations when the lag is being caused by inconsistent frame rates... as alt-tabbing fixed a handful of weird framerate bugs as well.
Maybe ill go ahead and grab that digital version of atelier sophie revelator now.
Welp.
Just not quite the game than most of us wanted. There is always space in Guilty Gear and KI!
Capcom!
Yet the good players keep winning.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
8f of input delay absolutely "means something", even if it doesn't matter to you!
I like SFV a lot! It's good! Definitely better than SF4. I honestly still feel like the gameplay is cool and fun and good. Everything else, garbage fire. But just PLAYING the game, it's good!
Most of these complaints/problems with the game don't even really apply at our level. I just think people should be careful not to subconsciously project their frustration at the difficulty of fighting games onto the gameplay of fighting games, that's all.
RE: 8f, SF4 had 5 frames, so it's actually just 3f extra. But those 3f means that basically anytime you get counterhit anti-airing, you should have beat it clean. When you barely miss your whiff punish, you should have hit that whiff punish (though, with the hit/hurtbox designs in this game, it's pretty clear they don't want a strong whiff punish game in SFV). And so on. Like, it matters. But getting better actually matters way more, no one on our level (or really, any level) loses because of 3f extra lag. It's just super frustrating when it happens to you and you trade after a jumpin/dashin and you just KNOW that the game screwed you out of your reaction and it's easy to get put on tilt as a result. Snake Eyez, yeah, he's struggling with the game, but his whole game in SF4 was based on a very, VERY whiffpunish heavy style that he converted off of. You don't have that in this game, period. And it's not to do with the input lag so much as the base level design to shift the focus away from very risky footsies to a more free-flow, momentum-based game.
It's really weird because if PC is any indication they could fix the delay issue by disabling v-sync on PS4 and it'd be around 4-5 frames which is what SF4 was.
Or yeah if it's intentional it's so online play has a bit of an extra buffer to work with re-input delay... make offline play like online and your online play is a perfect offline experience now!
@Wimble I didn't really think through what you were asking before but the desync thing isn't specific to rollback netcode and GGPO has generally been proven to be really solid so I wouldn't expect any of the issues from SFV to end up in Injustice.
I definitely do agree with this. It's fun to talk shit about eight frames or whatever, but my biggest actual issue with it is the fact that Capcom US had to say they were looking into it, which apparently meant getting Capcom JP to ask Dimps, then make a statement on a japanese Topanga stream that it was intended all along
And this is right after Capcom shit the bed re: sponsorship in tournaments, missed an update, and failed to message it correctly
They don't know what they're doing
There are frame wizards who have gotten SFV PC down to 1f of input delay through disabling vsync, using keyboard inputs, and other stuff
Yeah, I definitely agree with that too. Like I said, everything else, garbage fire.
I feel bad for Capcom too. They were like, half a step from bankruptcy not too long ago, and maybe not too long from now either. If RE7 doesn't nail it, they're fucking done. You're not gonna get the support a cash-rich company can muster up. It doesn't matter to the consumer, who were sold a bill of goods, but I guess I just had lowered expectations from knowing that.
That's almost definitely what it is, which is why, even with v-sync off, online play is consistent at 8f of delay.
I have been putting some more time into KI. I want to like Kira, but I'm too aggressive and end up killing myself with her more often than not.
Chicago Megagame group
Watch me struggle to learn streaming! Point and laugh!
8 frames is potentially a big deal though.
I'm pretty trash and for example I got to the point in SF4 where I could blanka slide fireballs on reaction (which is basically a punish if you're spaced correctly) but it was reaaaaal close and was impossible to do online, even in a game I'd otherwise consider to be pretty perfect connection wise (for SF4 anyway).
So for example with that particular interaction, "blanka can punish me for free from half of the screen if I fireball" becomes "blanka has to guess and do an unsafe slide move randomly that I can punish if I block, if he wants to beat out my fireball here". That's a pretty big difference in how the match-up plays out.
I tried Kira but couldn't manage the risk/reward either. Tusk was fun but he was even slower than Thunder.
For some reason when Raam came out my Xbox decided that it needed to redownload the entire game. I think that it is up and running again.
I believe they wrote their game forgetting that 144hz monitors are a thing and I believe they fucked up their frame counter on that basis. I think the netplay is also bound into this frame counter which is why cross-play is not always, but occasionally, complete and total dick
because when you have a server chopping wood at 144hz and a PS4 just barely handling 60FPS... its very easy for me to concoct scenarios where shit would go south, and you'd get asymmetric experiences.
I meant no one complained about how the game felt laggy and then some mouthpiece on a stream went 8 frames of input lag and now it's the excuse literally any time someone misses something.
Not even anyone specifically in this thread, I'm just sick of it being the catchall.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
And it isn't to say it might not have an effect but if you give a people an excuse boy are they gonna use it.
Yeah that's what I'm expecting/hoping. Only steps remaining is finding a character that seems as cool as green arrow or catwoman did in the first one and then to figure out how to be social on consoles
It was like a 26gb update... And my guess is they just dumped a bunch of Shadow Lords stuff on us. There's supposed to be a stream later today that gives Shadow Lords details.
I haven't actually tried it myself so take this with a grain of salt, but everything I've read implies it's better than wireless (unless your electrical system is old and shitty wiring) but worse than a real lan cable. Which sounds about right honestly.
I want to win this time.