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Shooting in Florida gay club, 50+ casualties currently feared

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Posts

  • NSDFRandNSDFRand FloridaRegistered User regular
    rhylith wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    you mean guns+more guns means more dead people?

    And those are the highly trained "good guys with guns". Even them engaging in a gunfight with shooters has drawbacks.

    Imagine what would happen if it was just some random person at the club with a couple drinks in them and little to no training deciding to be a hero.

    What kind of argument is this? It is illegal to carry a weapon into an establishment that makes 51% or more of its sales in alcohol. That's the Texas law, which if that's the rule in Texas, you can be pretty sure most other states have similar laws or more strict laws.

    Next time you go out places, look for the Penal Code 30.06 and 51% signs.

    Is that a law anywhere but Texas? I have never heard of anything like that in California. It might just be a thing there because of Texas' general stance on carrying firearms of "yes."

    Like the point being that some other states probably have much more restrictive carry rules that make a specific exception like that law redundant.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/10/04/us/04guns.html?referer=

    Four states allow guns in bars. 18 others allow guns where alcohol is served in restaurants.

    I think I am confused what your original point was. I was trying to say that you can't assume that every state has the same gun laws texas does, such as the 51% alcohol no guns thing.

    No fucking shit, and my point was if other states had any goddamn sense, they wouldn't allow guns in bars and restaurants that sold more than 51%

    Ah ok, yeah. I don't know Texas' laws at all, so I want to ask, if there's no law explicitly saying "you can't bring firearms to this kind of place" is it up to the property owner whether firearms are allowed or banned at their business, or are firearms forced to be allowed to be carried everywhere it's not otherwise forbidden? I assumed the former until I read about some of that stuff the NRA is trying to push through and now I'm not so sure.

    IIRC here in Florida we have a prohibition on carry in 51%+ alcohol sales establishments as well statutory ability to be trespassed if the property owner asks you to leave if you are carrying. In the case that you are carrying (even legally) and you are asked to leave, and you don't, you can then be charged with "armed trespass" which moves from misdemeanor to third degree felony.

    The 2nd Amendment is unarguably one of the most liberal, liberating and radical statements ever made in human history.
  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    Honestly this has taken me a lot of time to process into words that don't seem token but Dallas is a good point to do it from.

    When I was a lot younger, twelve or so, I had a fascination with the more macabre aspects of American History. My dad took me to Dallas because I wanted to see where Kennedy was shot, the Cenotaph, all that. I recall it being full of some of the more liberal people I've met in my life. (Granted, this is twelve year old Zoel, when Zoel had a much more limited conception of the political spectrum and was emotionally negative 6 years old.) But that's not really the point.

    The city was abuzz with activity until you got to the Cenotaph; the memorial for Kennedy.

    Completely empty.

    I was hanging out in the Cenotaph and, as you might expect someone who spawned me to act, my dad got super bored and started looking for a place to get donuts.

    I'm sitting on the ground alone in this fake outdoor room that nobody pays attention to, and I'm blown away by the emptiness of it. The fact that some guy decided that he was going to kill a president and change the world, and all there is to really show for it are these four corners supporting nothing that nobody ever pays attention to. What he expected to accomplish, who cares? Maybe something changed but probably nothing of consequence changed. A civil rights bill still happened, Johnson escalated the war he inherited, and nobody died in a nuclear apocalypse.

    So I look at the federal buildings, bite into my stale doughnut, and I think maybe the place was just empty because the Oklahoma city bombing happened, but that doesn't make any sense because It's been a month or so now, and they've already caught McVeigh. Some other guy who thought he was going to kill a bunch of people and change the country, world, whatever. He'll probably get the death penalty. He wont regret killing all those people because as a rule that's not a regret people who kill a lot of people have.

    His last regret on earth is going to be having killed all those people and sacrificed his life in the name of some cause that he invented in his mind, and he will realize that he has done nothing. His regret will be that it was pointless.

    People keep getting killed and stuff doesn't change much from day to day or even year to year, but at the same time if I look into the mind of someone so intent on murder, I still see the end of don't ask don't tell, gay marriage becoming legal, Obama finally signing the Matthew Shepard act, and the outrage against bathroom bills; I just see it with this perverse sense of fear.

    Another way of putting it is that I don't really think the future changes much after it's made up it's mind. I don't mean to be rosy here by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that somewhere out there, on the dark side of some terrible soul, someone is cursing to themselves that the demons he sees as heroes keep killing people, keep killing people, and keep killing people, and yet nothing really seems to change America back the way he wants it to.

    I'm honestly not sure how you could say anything about an event of this scope without unintentionally minimizing it, but hopefully it doesn't seem like I'm doing that. I could say something about how it upsets me that people I count as friends have to live with fear, but I'm not exactly great at expressing emotion so I'll have to bank on seeming human enough for that feeling to be an emotion that I can express without expressing.

    I guess my point is that while my hope for the future is at best guardedly optimistic, no Pyrrhic victory earned by the mass murder of human beings can ever take away the overwhelming weight of impotence and desperation that type of evil feels in America in 2016. That part. That part gives me some hope, I guess it's a strange sort of hope, but still hope.

    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    We stand together with the LGBT community as one
    In Orlando, a terrorist walks into a nightclub and murders nearly 50 human beings. Sons and daughters, brothers and sisters cut down in cold blood.

    They did nothing wrong. They were dancing with friends, they were enjoying music with loved ones.

    Why did the terrorist murder them?
    Because he was driven by a fanatical hatred.

    He targeted the LGBT community because he believed they were evil.

    Now, the murderer wasn't alone.

    Regimes and terrorist organizations around the world ruthlessly persecute the LGBT community.

    In Syria, ISIS throws gays off rooftops.
    In Iran, the regime hangs gays from cranes.

    Too many people have remained silent in the face of this awful persecution.

    This week's shooting wasn't merely an attack on the LGBT community. It was an attack on all of us, on our common values of freedom and diversity and choice.

    Radical Islamist terror makes no distinction between shades of infidel.

    This week it was gays in Orlando. A few days before that it was Jews in Tel Aviv. Before that it was music fans in Paris; Travelers in Brussels; Yazidis in Iraq; Community workers in San Bernardino; Christians and journalists in Syria.

    All of us are targets.

    We believe that all people are created in the image of God.

    ISIS, by contrast, believes that all people who aren't just like them deserve to die.

    We will not be terrified into submission.
    We will fight back. And we will triumph.

    Today I ask you to reach out to friends in the LGBT community. Comfort them.
    Tell them you stand together, we stand together as one. And that you will always remember the victims.

    Tell them they will never be alone, that we are all one family deserving of dignity, deserving of life.

    I have no doubt that those who seek to spread hate and fear will be defeated.

    Working together we will defeat them even faster.

    We need to stand united, resolute in the belief that all people regardless of their sexual orientation, regardless of their race, regardless of their ethnicity, all people deserve respect, deserve dignity.



    get

    fucked

    KadithShadowenDoobhNarbusZonugalchrishallett83ArdolMetzger MeisterDer Waffle MousMatevOlivawRainfallBucketmanCaulk Bite 6NeoTomaAlbino BunnyStraightziHermanointropPsycohedSkeithGatsbycabsy
  • OghulkOghulk biggest externality low-energy economistRegistered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    pooka wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I have burnt orange clothing thank you very much

    Well duh, everyone knows what Big 12 team wears orange

    Go Pokes!
    Beefl, are.. are you guys from Oklahoma?
    oh. no, you must be trolling him.

    hm. i think i still have an OSU flag (a gift; i have, like, 3 branded items, 2 of which i needed for work), and i could buy a rainbow flag at the Flag Store...

    No he went to Michigan

    he's trolling me hard and it hurts my soul

    i don't think they're Big 12

    but Virginia Tech is burnt orange. and brown.

    Oh, Tennessee as well. And Syracuse.

    they're not he's referring to OSU which is the pokes which are Big 12

    raoADVy.png
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    rhylith wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    you mean guns+more guns means more dead people?

    And those are the highly trained "good guys with guns". Even them engaging in a gunfight with shooters has drawbacks.

    Imagine what would happen if it was just some random person at the club with a couple drinks in them and little to no training deciding to be a hero.

    What kind of argument is this? It is illegal to carry a weapon into an establishment that makes 51% or more of its sales in alcohol. That's the Texas law, which if that's the rule in Texas, you can be pretty sure most other states have similar laws or more strict laws.

    Next time you go out places, look for the Penal Code 30.06 and 51% signs.

    Is that a law anywhere but Texas? I have never heard of anything like that in California. It might just be a thing there because of Texas' general stance on carrying firearms of "yes."

    Like the point being that some other states probably have much more restrictive carry rules that make a specific exception like that law redundant.

    Wyoming has permitless concealed carry, but no guns in establishments serving alchohol, churches, school zones, federal buildings, or any business with a no firearms policy posted

    Metzger Meister
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    We stand together with the LGBT community as one
    In Orlando, a terrorist walks into a nightclub and murders nearly 50 human beings. Sons and daughters, brothers and sisters cut down in cold blood.

    They did nothing wrong. They were dancing with friends, they were enjoying music with loved ones.

    Why did the terrorist murder them?
    Because he was driven by a fanatical hatred.

    He targeted the LGBT community because he believed they were evil.

    Now, the murderer wasn't alone.

    Regimes and terrorist organizations around the world ruthlessly persecute the LGBT community.

    In Syria, ISIS throws gays off rooftops.
    In Iran, the regime hangs gays from cranes.

    Too many people have remained silent in the face of this awful persecution.

    This week's shooting wasn't merely an attack on the LGBT community. It was an attack on all of us, on our common values of freedom and diversity and choice.

    Radical Islamist terror makes no distinction between shades of infidel.

    This week it was gays in Orlando. A few days before that it was Jews in Tel Aviv. Before that it was music fans in Paris; Travelers in Brussels; Yazidis in Iraq; Community workers in San Bernardino; Christians and journalists in Syria.

    All of us are targets.

    We believe that all people are created in the image of God.

    ISIS, by contrast, believes that all people who aren't just like them deserve to die.

    We will not be terrified into submission.
    We will fight back. And we will triumph.

    Today I ask you to reach out to friends in the LGBT community. Comfort them.
    Tell them you stand together, we stand together as one. And that you will always remember the victims.

    Tell them they will never be alone, that we are all one family deserving of dignity, deserving of life.

    I have no doubt that those who seek to spread hate and fear will be defeated.

    Working together we will defeat them even faster.

    We need to stand united, resolute in the belief that all people regardless of their sexual orientation, regardless of their race, regardless of their ethnicity, all people deserve respect, deserve dignity.



    get

    fucked

    Netanyahu is trying to spin this to be about islam and israel's enemies, I don't like that. I'd prefer if he kept his politics out of our national tragedies. (is that what you're saying too? 'get fucked' is kind of ambiguous)

    BahamutZERO on
    BahamutZERO.gif
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  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) I want to cut to the feelingRegistered User regular
    Queer, Muslim, & Unwelcome at the “New Stonewall”
    Politician after politician took the stage and talked, not about homophobia, but about gun control. In the same breath, they lauded the NYPD for “protecting New Yorkers.” Indeed, the police seemed at home in front of Stonewall, carrying the same assault rifles that had been used two days earlier to kill the people we had come to mourn. A group of NYPD counterterrorism officers with canines, stood in the middle of the street talking to each other in relaxed voices. They were one with the crowd.

    In the crowd, all around us, were the flimsy politics of those who thought sexuality was just one hurdle in the fight against an otherwise-just society. The majority of Stonewall attendees were enamored with the rich, powerful people who had hijacked our grief, and would not hear of any disruptions. We tried, at various points, to heckle the men in suits and rally the folks around us to engage in actual chanting. My friend shouted “Fuck the NYPD” during De Blasio’s speech. She received contemptuous glares from the audience, with one man simply saying “No.” Another man, standing next to her, said “They’re the only people protecting us.” She responded, “Do you know where you are? You’re at Stonewall.” Another voice interjected, “That was a long time ago.”

    I am streamer, destroyer of worlds. [M, Tu, W, F: 2-6 pm EST] and [Saturday: 3-8 pm EST]
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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Sounds like Stonewall got gentrified. :/

    chrishallett83FencingsaxNartwakCaulk Bite 6MatevDarth WaiterDedwrekkaBertezBertezMetzger MeisterHermanotynicNarbusOmnipotentBagelRaijin QuickfootZonugalPsycohedShadowenRainfallEdith UpwardsNiryaFuzzytadpoleSkeithGatsbymasterofmetroidNeco
  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) I want to cut to the feelingRegistered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Sounds like Stonewall got gentrified. :/

    it's p. symbolic of what's gone on with queer + trans rights

    I am streamer, destroyer of worlds. [M, Tu, W, F: 2-6 pm EST] and [Saturday: 3-8 pm EST]
    Twitter
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  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    We stand together with the LGBT community as one
    In Orlando, a terrorist walks into a nightclub and murders nearly 50 human beings. Sons and daughters, brothers and sisters cut down in cold blood.

    They did nothing wrong. They were dancing with friends, they were enjoying music with loved ones.

    Why did the terrorist murder them?
    Because he was driven by a fanatical hatred.

    He targeted the LGBT community because he believed they were evil.

    Now, the murderer wasn't alone.

    Regimes and terrorist organizations around the world ruthlessly persecute the LGBT community.

    In Syria, ISIS throws gays off rooftops.
    In Iran, the regime hangs gays from cranes.

    Too many people have remained silent in the face of this awful persecution.

    This week's shooting wasn't merely an attack on the LGBT community. It was an attack on all of us, on our common values of freedom and diversity and choice.

    Radical Islamist terror makes no distinction between shades of infidel.

    This week it was gays in Orlando. A few days before that it was Jews in Tel Aviv. Before that it was music fans in Paris; Travelers in Brussels; Yazidis in Iraq; Community workers in San Bernardino; Christians and journalists in Syria.

    All of us are targets.

    We believe that all people are created in the image of God.

    ISIS, by contrast, believes that all people who aren't just like them deserve to die.

    We will not be terrified into submission.
    We will fight back. And we will triumph.

    Today I ask you to reach out to friends in the LGBT community. Comfort them.
    Tell them you stand together, we stand together as one. And that you will always remember the victims.

    Tell them they will never be alone, that we are all one family deserving of dignity, deserving of life.

    I have no doubt that those who seek to spread hate and fear will be defeated.

    Working together we will defeat them even faster.

    We need to stand united, resolute in the belief that all people regardless of their sexual orientation, regardless of their race, regardless of their ethnicity, all people deserve respect, deserve dignity.



    get

    fucked

    Netanyahu is trying to spin this to be about islam and israel's enemies, I don't like that. I'd prefer if he kept his politics out of our national tragedies. (is that what you're saying too? 'get fucked' is kind of ambiguous)

    Yes that is basically what I was saying.

  • Rorshach KringleRorshach Kringle that crustache life Registered User regular
    just replace me with a bot that says "kill whitey" every few days

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  • ph blakeph blake Registered User regular
    People fucking cheered for a politician saying "we're going to do what we did after 9/11?"

    Good god that's awful.

    Raijin Quickfootchrishallett83Caulk Bite 6NightDragonEdith UpwardscB557SkeithNartwakDoobhmasterofmetroidFencingsaxhailtothekaleOlivawZibblsnrt
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    The most disturbing thing about people coopting Orlando to point out acts of the US violating the rights of people of color and first nations is that they pretend events like Stonewall didn't happen.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I've been leery in stonewall ever since they gave an award to Julie bindel

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Fuck this week!

    Did anything ever come out of the L.A.pride arrest or was it just another person making bad choices?

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Uh... dude was fleeing child molestation charges in another state, so it seems terrible all around. Probably wasn't going to shoot anyone? He had history of threatening people with his guns though.

    Panda4You
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    There's gonna be a big candlelit vigil tonight in downtown Cheyenne, me and my husband are going.

    There's also apparently going to be a large contingent of open carry assholes there to "show their support" but apparently the local pride orgs did a little digging and them folks haven't been too keen on showing support for the LGBT community in the past. There's also gonna be a heavy police presence, so I'm not too worried.

    My mom told me not to go, on account of I can be a little hot headed and "opinionated" if you will, but I'll tell y'all the same thing I told her.

    I spent eighteen years of my life hiding. From myself, my family, my friends, the world. I am not gonna spend one more goddamn second hiding and I sure as shit ain't gonna let some toothless peckerwoods make me afraid to go out in my own home town and grieve with my people.

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  • KadithKadith Registered User regular
    There's gonna be a big candlelit vigil tonight in downtown Cheyenne, me and my husband are going.

    There's also apparently going to be a large contingent of open carry assholes there to "show their support" but apparently the local pride orgs did a little digging and them folks haven't been too keen on showing support for the LGBT community in the past. There's also gonna be a heavy police presence, so I'm not too worried.

    My mom told me not to go, on account of I can be a little hot headed and "opinionated" if you will, but I'll tell y'all the same thing I told her.

    I spent eighteen years of my life hiding. From myself, my family, my friends, the world. I am not gonna spend one more goddamn second hiding and I sure as shit ain't gonna let some toothless peckerwoods make me afraid to go out in my own home town and grieve with my people.

    we need a witness me emoticon

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  • RankenphileRankenphile Passersby were amazed by the unusually large amounts of blood.Registered User, Moderator mod
    There's gonna be a big candlelit vigil tonight in downtown Cheyenne, me and my husband are going.

    There's also apparently going to be a large contingent of open carry assholes there to "show their support" but apparently the local pride orgs did a little digging and them folks haven't been too keen on showing support for the LGBT community in the past. There's also gonna be a heavy police presence, so I'm not too worried.

    My mom told me not to go, on account of I can be a little hot headed and "opinionated" if you will, but I'll tell y'all the same thing I told her.

    I spent eighteen years of my life hiding. From myself, my family, my friends, the world. I am not gonna spend one more goddamn second hiding and I sure as shit ain't gonna let some toothless peckerwoods make me afraid to go out in my own home town and grieve with my people.

    right the fuck on

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  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Mortius is correct Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    There's gonna be a big candlelit vigil tonight in downtown Cheyenne, me and my husband are going.

    There's also apparently going to be a large contingent of open carry assholes there to "show their support" but apparently the local pride orgs did a little digging and them folks haven't been too keen on showing support for the LGBT community in the past. There's also gonna be a heavy police presence, so I'm not too worried.

    My mom told me not to go, on account of I can be a little hot headed and "opinionated" if you will, but I'll tell y'all the same thing I told her.

    I spent eighteen years of my life hiding. From myself, my family, my friends, the world. I am not gonna spend one more goddamn second hiding and I sure as shit ain't gonna let some toothless peckerwoods make me afraid to go out in my own home town and grieve with my people.

    Awesome you!

    just, uh.. be careful.

    (I know it probably doesn't need said, but the mommy instinct is kicking in and I'd rather say it and be growled at, then not say it.)

    Metzger MeisterCaulk Bite 6Rainfall
  • TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    Head on a swivel. Stay sharp, stay alert. I hope it's a peaceful gathering. Good luck.

    Metzger MeisterCaulk Bite 6Rainfall
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Man, that was amazing. Every faith represented by local religious leaders, every community given shout outs and love, just so much love everywhere, cutting through the sadness and the heart ache like a beam of light.

    Donated to the Wyoming democratic party, bought some stuff, talked to organizers from the local pride orgs and such, gonna be going to the pride parade down in Denver and meeting up with other Wyoming Pride people. Saw lots of familiar faces! Cried about my terrible job and an older ace lady hugged me and called me child and it was super cleansing.

    Edit: also, no fucking cowards with their semi-auto penis extensions in sight, and cops wearing rainbow armbands. Goddamn what a wonderful, beautiful, powerful evening.

    Metzger Meister on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    We stand together with the LGBT community as one
    In Orlando, a terrorist walks into a nightclub and murders nearly 50 human beings. Sons and daughters, brothers and sisters cut down in cold blood.

    They did nothing wrong. They were dancing with friends, they were enjoying music with loved ones.

    Why did the terrorist murder them?
    Because he was driven by a fanatical hatred.

    He targeted the LGBT community because he believed they were evil.

    Now, the murderer wasn't alone.

    Regimes and terrorist organizations around the world ruthlessly persecute the LGBT community.

    In Syria, ISIS throws gays off rooftops.
    In Iran, the regime hangs gays from cranes.

    Too many people have remained silent in the face of this awful persecution.

    This week's shooting wasn't merely an attack on the LGBT community. It was an attack on all of us, on our common values of freedom and diversity and choice.

    Radical Islamist terror makes no distinction between shades of infidel.

    This week it was gays in Orlando. A few days before that it was Jews in Tel Aviv. Before that it was music fans in Paris; Travelers in Brussels; Yazidis in Iraq; Community workers in San Bernardino; Christians and journalists in Syria.

    All of us are targets.

    We believe that all people are created in the image of God.

    ISIS, by contrast, believes that all people who aren't just like them deserve to die.

    We will not be terrified into submission.
    We will fight back. And we will triumph.

    Today I ask you to reach out to friends in the LGBT community. Comfort them.
    Tell them you stand together, we stand together as one. And that you will always remember the victims.

    Tell them they will never be alone, that we are all one family deserving of dignity, deserving of life.

    I have no doubt that those who seek to spread hate and fear will be defeated.

    Working together we will defeat them even faster.

    We need to stand united, resolute in the belief that all people regardless of their sexual orientation, regardless of their race, regardless of their ethnicity, all people deserve respect, deserve dignity.



    get

    fucked

    Netanyahu is trying to spin this to be about islam and israel's enemies, I don't like that. I'd prefer if he kept his politics out of our national tragedies. (is that what you're saying too? 'get fucked' is kind of ambiguous)

    Yes that is basically what I was saying.

    Israel's treatment of LGBT is not exactly stellar, either

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    chrishallett83Fiendishrabbit
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    Man, that was amazing. Every faith represented by local religious leaders, every community given shout outs and love, just so much love everywhere, cutting through the sadness and the heart ache like a beam of light.

    Donated to the Wyoming democratic party, bought some stuff, talked to organizers from the local pride orgs and such, gonna be going to the pride parade down in Denver and meeting up with other Wyoming Pride people. Saw lots of familiar faces! Cried about my terrible job and an older ace lady hugged me and called me child and it was super cleansing.

    Edit: also, no fucking cowards with their semi-auto penis extensions in sight, and cops wearing rainbow armbands. Goddamn what a wonderful, beautiful, powerful evening.

    I dunno if it's your proximity to Colorado, but shit like this just never gets off the ground in Casper and it's kind of a bummer. Glad it was good. Haven't seen you in a few years, I should look you up next time I'm in Cheyenne.

    Metzger Meister
  • Ms DapperMs Dapper Cheers Luv! King's RowRegistered User regular
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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Biden and those shades.

    EDIT: I do not know how that man has the willpower to attend such displays of grieving, given all the loss he's suffered in his lifetime. Not really related, I know, but still.

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  • RoyceSraphimRoyceSraphim Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Biden and those shades.

    EDIT: I do not know how that man has the willpower to attend such displays of grieving, given all the loss he's suffered in his lifetime. Not really related, I know, but still.

    Personally, there's a saturation point where you work first, then feel. Especially with the truly.....gnarly things.

    Matev
  • Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    I'm getting a little tired of one friend I have on Facebook (an actual friend I have decent history with, whom I otherwise like, not some half-remembered dude from school or work).

    He's been posting the odd article or reblog about the shooting. First was directly after the thing, some bullshit listing of how to always be armed and ready for everything. More recently, an opinion piece by one "former NYPD officer" who thinks it was two shooters but The Man in Office is pushing the one guy narrative (no special reason given beyond that, an "extensive knowledge of guns" and bonus points for prefacing the whole screed with "I hate conspiracy theories but...").

    I've given him shit for it both times, but he doesn't really respond. I'm kind of hopeful his wife (and mutual friend) will see and talk it over with him. On the (minimally) plus side these are the only things like that I've seen from him on this, but it's getting tiring.

    Caulk Bite 6 on
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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Knob wrote: »
    Man, that was amazing. Every faith represented by local religious leaders, every community given shout outs and love, just so much love everywhere, cutting through the sadness and the heart ache like a beam of light.

    Donated to the Wyoming democratic party, bought some stuff, talked to organizers from the local pride orgs and such, gonna be going to the pride parade down in Denver and meeting up with other Wyoming Pride people. Saw lots of familiar faces! Cried about my terrible job and an older ace lady hugged me and called me child and it was super cleansing.

    Edit: also, no fucking cowards with their semi-auto penis extensions in sight, and cops wearing rainbow armbands. Goddamn what a wonderful, beautiful, powerful evening.

    I dunno if it's your proximity to Colorado, but shit like this just never gets off the ground in Casper and it's kind of a bummer. Glad it was good. Haven't seen you in a few years, I should look you up next time I'm in Cheyenne.

    Fuck yeah dude, that would be rad as hell. I'd say we could go to a show or something but the scene is dead as a doornail around here lately. I'll take you out and buy you a beer or something, shoot some pool.

    Edit: also that just seems weird to me because I always thought Casper was a little more hip than Cheyenne. Maybe it's because my interactions with Casper folk have been limited to shows and all that.

    Metzger Meister on
  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) I want to cut to the feelingRegistered User regular
    I've been super bothered by reports of police firing into the crowd and injuring/killing more people

    It's something I want to rub in the face of folk who think more guns will solve the problem, because that's what happen when you fire into that kind of situation

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Dubh wrote: »
    I've been super bothered by reports of police firing into the crowd and injuring/killing more people

    It's something I want to rub in the face of folk who think more guns will solve the problem, because that's what happen when you fire into that kind of situation

    It's what we've been saying since day one of those debates too. See also: the NYPD's reputation for shooting more innocent bystanders than actual criminals

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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I mean, I'm glad I'm never going to be in a situation where I have to try and take down a live shooter in a crowd of civilians. I'm not going to rag on the cops too hard because it is a situation so impossibly stressful that no one here can possibly identify with it. Yeah, someone probably missed and killed a person. They'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives, and the alternative was simply "don't try and stop the shooter"

    Hobnail wrote: »
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  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) I want to cut to the feelingRegistered User regular
    I'm not happy about it, but I can't offer a better solution than firing into the crowd to stop the killer

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I mean, I'm glad I'm never going to be in a situation where I have to try and take down a live shooter in a crowd of civilians. I'm not going to rag on the cops too hard because it is a situation so impossibly stressful that no one here can possibly identify with it. Yeah, someone probably missed and killed a person. They'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives, and the alternative was simply "don't try and stop the shooter"

    For me it's less that I'm admonishing the cops, and more just that it's a hard counter to that dumbass argument. Like, if trained police officers who are expected to possibly be in this sort of situation one day can't resolve a shooter scenario without some friendly fire casualties, a random gun enthusiast certainly isn't going to do any better.

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I've seen a bunch of people (not anyone here, I don't think) demonizing the cops over this one (or calling it a conspiracy and saying that the cops shot some people on purpose because they are racist/homophobic/transphobic)

    And like, if there is one time I'm going to give a cop the benefit of the doubt regarding shooting an innocent person, it's when he is attempting to take down an armed gunman who has already killed dozens of people

    Obviously our ideal situation is that never has to happen, that we never have to ask that question

    But as far as I am concerned, the shooter is the one who is responsible for all of those deaths

    If one of them was caused by an officer's bullet and not the shooter's, it's still the shooter's fault, because he put those people in that situation

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Tube wrote: »
    I mean, I'm glad I'm never going to be in a situation where I have to try and take down a live shooter in a crowd of civilians. I'm not going to rag on the cops too hard because it is a situation so impossibly stressful that no one here can possibly identify with it. Yeah, someone probably missed and killed a person. They'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives, and the alternative was simply "don't try and stop the shooter"

    For me it's less that I'm admonishing the cops, and more just that it's a hard counter to that dumbass argument. Like, if trained police officers who are expected to possibly be in this sort of situation one day can't resolve a shooter scenario without some friendly fire casualties, a random gun enthusiast certainly isn't going to do any better.

    There's a little tirade I get into whenever I hear people talk about shit like that, about all the little things that cops need in order to minimize causalities. Because it isn't just training.

    They have particular guns and ammo as well, so that whatever they hit does not get passed through and whatever they hit is going to die. They use hollow points, shit that is against the Geneva Convention for Wartime Usage to achieve this effect. Random ass civilians, aside from not having the proper training, have a random chance as to what kind of bullet they use, and the more power gun, the more solid bullet, the more it pierces, the more collateral damage. So even if they hit the target, they might hit someone behind their target.

    Because Lord knows someone with a conceal/carry would never go with an absurdly powerful handgun.

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  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) I want to cut to the feelingRegistered User regular
    my main thoughts concerning the cops are the same as usual, tbh

    too many stories of cops abusing and misusing firearms for me to trust their training - but that's not really the point, at this exact moment

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  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    Tube wrote: »
    I mean, I'm glad I'm never going to be in a situation where I have to try and take down a live shooter in a crowd of civilians. I'm not going to rag on the cops too hard because it is a situation so impossibly stressful that no one here can possibly identify with it. Yeah, someone probably missed and killed a person. They'll have to live with that for the rest of their lives, and the alternative was simply "don't try and stop the shooter"

    For me it's less that I'm admonishing the cops, and more just that it's a hard counter to that dumbass argument. Like, if trained police officers who are expected to possibly be in this sort of situation one day can't resolve a shooter scenario without some friendly fire casualties, a random gun enthusiast certainly isn't going to do any better.

    There's a little tirade I get into whenever I hear people talk about shit like that, about all the little things that cops need in order to minimize causalities. Because it isn't just training.

    They have particular guns and ammo as well, so that whatever they hit does not get passed through and whatever they hit is going to die. They use hollow points, shit that is against the Geneva Convention for Wartime Usage to achieve this effect. Random ass civilians, aside from not having the proper training, have a random chance as to what kind of bullet they use, and the more power gun, the more solid bullet, the more it pierces, the more collateral damage. So even if they hit the target, they might hit someone behind their target.

    Because Lord knows someone with a conceal/carry would never go with an absurdly powerful handgun.

    The 4 Geneva Conventions cover things like not firing on medical personnel or attacking hospitals, ensuring wounded are cared for regardless of nationality or enemy status, humane treatment of POWs, and protections for civilians and noncombatants. It's an extremely common pop culture flub to call certain tactics and weapons as banned by the Geneva Convention. Hollowpoint and frangible ammunition are banned in warfarethe by NATO treaty countries, but under the Hague Convention, not Geneva.

    Handguns in general have a slow enough muzzle velocity that overpenetration between hardball and hollowpoint is minor, not to mention that being shot by hardball is dramatically more survivable.

    Once we start getting into stuff where overpenetration is a major factor, we're getting out of stuff that is realistically carryable.

    I still don't want a hothead yahoo with a Dirty Harry complex in the middle of an already fucked situation, mind. But accidental overpenetration from having the wrong gun/ammo isn't really one of the reasons.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I should have looked it up, I knew there was a specific international law that banned 'hunting ammunition' and couldn't remember if it was Hague or Geneva and hedged my bets on Geneva.

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Wait, are cruciform bayonets banned by the Geneva Conventions or the Hague Convention?

    I was pretty sure it was the former, but now I'm doubting myself

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