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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Brexitstential Crisis

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    BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Is it at the point where we can consider it all one pathetic shambles that should be completely forgotten?
    Seriously, the "democratic will of the people" stuff seems to be gone from the media already, only being brought up as a desperate shield for those who want to defend a horribly bad idea.
    It's not gone from the media; that attitude is still all over the tabloids, and will continue to make its presence known especially if the government tries to walk it back (very real possibility of riots too, in that event).

    However, the BBC in particular, which could not be seen to be biased during the campaign, can finally report on the 'doomsaying' because it's actually happening. Media laws are a double-edged sword in this case.

    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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    altidaltid Registered User regular
    I find it telling that the BBC's main headline is "Reaction to Brexit and Corbyn Crisis".

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    MuddypawsMuddypaws Lactodorum, UKRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    The other Eagle has flown the shadow cabinet.

    Sounds suspiciously like a Cold War spy code. What are you hiding....comrade?

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Bethryn wrote: »
    Oh fuck Farage might well be present at Tuesday's European Parliament emergency convening.

    He's an MEP, so it's logical

    I don't think anyone thinks he has the authority to unilaterally invoke Article 50 or anything
    Whether he invokes it or not, he has on previous occasions taken the opportunity to be an asshat to the EP, and I think that's the last bloody thing we need right now.

    Honestly? If Farage is there I think just about every MEP is going to have a fantastic time trolling him over what's happened.

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    Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Is it at the point where we can consider it all one pathetic shambles that should be completely forgotten?
    Seriously, the "democratic will of the people" stuff seems to be gone from the media already, only being brought up as a desperate shield for those who want to defend a horribly bad idea.

    I believe Article 50 will be triggered at some point. There is still a majority of people in this country, supported by a largely supportive media, who want us out of the EU regardless of whether it seems so incredibly unreal to be in this position. They may not realise their mistakes until it's far too late, or maybe it will turn into a triumph (me neither) but the desire for withdrawal from the EU is still there and likely will be for quite some time, even if the focus on reporting has shifted.

    The only saving grace could be for the UK & EU to hold informal talks to establish the terms of leaving prior to Article 50 being triggered but all leading EU officials are saying that is not an option. They'll only agree to talk once Article 50 has been triggered and then, once negotiations start, it will be too late to back out once negotiators realise the deal we'll get is going to be horrendous.

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    I find it telling that the BBC's main headline is "Reaction to Brexit and Corbyn Crisis".

    This has proven beyond all doubt it is impossible for the Tories to fuck up badly enough that Corbyn can't still one up them and steal the negative press.

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    Shakey1245Shakey1245 Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Is it at the point where we can consider it all one pathetic shambles that should be completely forgotten?

    The Oxford English Dictionary defines an Omnishambles as:
    NOUN

    British informal
    A situation that has been comprehensively mismanaged, characterized by a string of blunders and miscalculations

    Seems pretty spot on.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    So why are workers unions backing Corbyn if he's as incompetent as the discussion here makes him sound? Is it just that he's more of a socialist and rival Labour leaders are capitalist sellouts, or?

    Kaputa on
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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    So why are workers unions backing Corbyn if he's as incompetent as the discussion here makes him sound? Is it just that he's more of a socialists and rival Labour leaders are capitalist sellouts, or?

    There was quite the reaction against "Blairites" after Ed Milliband lost, the idea that chasing the centre was a betrayal of the grass roots.

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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Something that's genuinely terrifying me here is that there seems to be a not-ignorable section of Leave voters who see the chaos that's unfolding in the aftermath of the result, and are thinking; Good, that's shown the bastards.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Kaputa wrote: »
    So why are workers unions backing Corbyn if he's as incompetent as the discussion here makes him sound? Is it just that he's more of a socialist and rival Labour leaders are capitalist sellouts, or?

    Because unions don't necessarily care about getting Labour into power as much as having a Labour leader they can influence.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Something that's genuinely terrifying me here is that there seems to be a not-ignorable section of Leave voters who see the chaos that's unfolding in the aftermath of the result, and are thinking; Good, that's shown the bastards.

    If you believe that Parliament should be beholden to no-one, if you understood the economic ramifications that would befell that and you decided that was worth it, then I can't begrudge you voting to leave, even if I disagree with it.

    I just think the proportion of Leave voters who were that clear about their wants and understood the consequences is not very big.

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    Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    So why are workers unions backing Corbyn if he's as incompetent as the discussion here makes him sound? Is it just that he's more of a socialist and rival Labour leaders are capitalist sellouts, or?

    Far be it from me to tell others what's best for them, but grassroots Labour party members have recently acquired a chronic ability to vote against their own self-interest. They voted in the wrong Miliband brother for a start, then elected a man who stop trying in the 80s and are now setting themselves up to re-elect him. The turkeys and Christmas metaphor springs to mind.

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    MuddypawsMuddypaws Lactodorum, UKRegistered User regular
    edited June 2016
    From the Guardian
    Bryant says Corbyn refused to tell him whether he voted to leave the EU

    Chris Bryant, who resigned yesterday as shadow leader of the Commons, has told the BBC that he thinks Jeremy Corbyn may have voted to leave the EU. Corbyn refused to tell him how he voted, he said.

    Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you Corbyn.

    Muddypaws on
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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    BBC News wrote:
    You could be forgiven for not keeping up with the Labour resignations, so here's a summary. So far we have:

    - 19 shadow cabinet departures - 16 resignations, one sacking (Hilary Benn), two informal departures (Baroness Smith and Lord Bassam have said they will not serve under Jeremy Corbyn)

    - seven Parliamentary Private Secretaries (Colleen Fletcher, DEFRA; Neil Coyle, Commons; Jess Phillips, Education; Karin Smyth, Health; Ruth Smeeth, Northern Ireland & Scotland; Chris Matherson, Justice; Matthew Pennycock, Housing;)

    - Nine shadow ministers

    In a nutshell, more than half of the shadow cabinet has now quit.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Something that's genuinely terrifying me here is that there seems to be a not-ignorable section of Leave voters who see the chaos that's unfolding in the aftermath of the result, and are thinking; Good, that's shown the bastards.

    mpxqryyl0kdt.jpg

    a.jpg 225K
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    I dunno if that's Bryant just stirring, but I can't say I feel sure Corbyn voted to Remain.

    The five junior ministers who resigned this morning have apparently said they weren't planning on resigning but John McDonnell burst into the meeting and threw his weight around and they thought nope.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular


    One day, politicians will figure out this Internet thing and how it works.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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    101101 Registered User regular
    McDonnell will never not make me Facepalm.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    A series of 30 or so tweets about how this could affect NI



    (Click on it to see the rest)

    RMS Oceanic on
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    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I suddenly really miss Have I Got News For You. I bet it's bloody fantastic at the moment.

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    101101 Registered User regular
    Dead ringers has been pretty on point

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Hey, those in Scotland who gave me some info about various things via pm just want to say thanks, I've applied, now we wait. I appreciate the info!

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    BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Andy Burnham still not resigning, probably because he thinks it'll hurt his chances of becoming Mayor of Manchester.

    You utter tool, Andy.

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    Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »

    Now is a great time to look up the artist Peter Howson, especially his Blind Leading the Blind series.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
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    SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited June 2016
    EDIT: This is not chat

    SanderJK on
    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited June 2016
    Maybe the party votes to keep Corbyn, in which case the Tories will have actually gotten away with this catastrophe. You couldn't design an opposition leader the Tories would rather run against.

    Bogart on
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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    With all of this movement, you might be wondering who's left in Labour's top team:.

    Still in position are:

    - John McDonnell as shadow chancellor

    - Tom Watson as deputy leader

    - Andy Burnham as shadow home secretary

    - Jon Trickett as shadow minister for communities and local government

    - Rosie Winterton - Opposition chief whip

    Two ministers have stayed in the cabinet, but switched departments:

    - Emily Thornberry (Defence > Foreign Office)

    - Diane Abbott (International Development > Health)

    Plus junior ministers Jon Ashworth and Luciana Berger also attend cabinet and also remain in post.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Diane Abbot just called on people to sign a petition against the Labour MPs who are resigning. I feel certain the internal trials to find and measure everyone's traitorous tendencies aren't far away.

    It feels like a divorce where no one wants to lose the house. No one wants to call themselves New Labour again, so both sides want to keep the name.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Maybe Corbyn can lead a party called Old Labour, or Platonic Ideal Labour, or Labour For People Who Like Rallies And Marching And Meetings And Calling Each Other Comrade But Don't Want To Get Their Hands Dirty Labour.

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    Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Maybe the party votes to keep Corbyn, in which case the Tories will have actually gotten away with this catastrophe. You couldn't design an opposition leader the Tories would rather run against.

    I don't think that will happen. The rank and file of the party mostly voted for Corbyn because he was hard left and it was pathetically obvious that the mainstream candidates had no interest in opposing the Tories but preferred to focus on the next election instead. I mean let's not forget that the first person to resign when Corbyn took over wrote that letter saying opposition was futile because they'd lost and it was a waste of time to keep fighting for things like the NHS.

    Corbyn was the alternative to that sort of politics. He was supposed to be the firebrand that would call the Tories out on everything they did.

    Instead he's flailed about like a fish out of water, barely mentioned the Tory party and sided with the worst of the worst of them on this one crucial referendum, even if he did it for very different reasons to them. And as a result, a fair chunk of the Labour rank and file have lost funding, contracts and even their jobs. Medicine, Science, Technology, Engineering and Education are some of the areas hit hardest by this result.

    Corbyn is making the assumption that he's still the candidate of choice of the average Labour voter when he really isn't. What's worse is that he clearly can't even see why he wouldn't be.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    With apologies/thanks to @JoeUser:
    JoeUser wrote: »

    SUN’S RESIDENT IDIOT KELVIN MACKENZIE NOW REGRETS VOTING LEAVE, AFTER OFFERING 10 REASONS FOR BREXIT

    When I put my cross against Leave I felt a surge as though for the first time in my life my vote did count. I had the power.

    Four days later I don’t feel quite the same. I have buyer’s remorse. A sense of being careful what you wish for. To be truthful, I am fearful of what lies ahead.

    That should be enough to automatically nullify the referendum.

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    edited June 2016
    A series of 30 or so tweets about how this could affect NI



    (Click on it to see the rest)

    If you need 34 tweets then twitter might not be the best medium really and frankly his points are good enough that they could be easily expanded to a full article

    Phyphor on
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    Ah yes, Kelvin MacKenzie. Someone who has delighted us for far too long.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Ah yes, Kelvin MacKenzie. Someone who has delighted us for far too long.

    But look at what forty years of time and the aging process Europe has done to him!

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    A series of 30 or so tweets about how this could affect NI



    (Click on it to see the rest)

    If you need 34 tweets then twitter might not be the best medium really and frankly his points are good enough that they could be easily expanded to a full article

    It's a fair cop, and he's got followers asking for an easier format to read it in.

    The tl;dr for everyone is that the Good Friday Agreement, the current foundation of Peace in Northern Ireland, was built around the assumption of the EU framework being there. Now that's not the case, we're headed for sad times. Also, the whole "NI is a net recpitiant of EU funding" thing.

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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    It's times like these where we can all take comfort in humour:

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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