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[BREXIT] Farewell Europe, and thanks for all the Fish stocks

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Posts

  • OghulkOghulk biggest externality low-energy economistRegistered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    This whole situation with Labour is driving me absolutely berserk with rage

    These fucking traitors to the cause of actually supporting the most vulnerable members of our society are more interested in ideological purity than they are in actually getting elected. Either they're incredibly stupid or they're wilfully embracing unelectability in order to preserve their ideals in full

    The ordinary people of the UK do not need that. They need a credible and cohesive opposition with a credible and cohesive anti-austerity plan to protect the economy, protect workers rights and protect public services. They don't need Tony Blair to go to the Hague, they don't need Momentum, they don't need this anti-BBC, anti-media drive from Corbyn's supporters.

    It'd be a joke if it wasn't so horrible. What a nightmare.

    Sounds like the Sanders' campaign to be quite honest.

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  • Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    yeah, to be honest Sanders kinda seems like American Corbyn

    well, one difference Sanders is Jewish, so his supporters aren't howling about secret zionist plots

    so Bernie has that going for him

    (of course it would be overly simplistic to claim that Sanders and Corbyn are the same, but there are many parallels)

  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    yeah, to be honest Sanders kinda seems like American Corbyn

    well, one difference Sanders is Jewish, so his supporters aren't howling about secret zionist plots

    so Bernie has that going for him

    (of course it would be overly simplistic to claim that Sanders and Corbyn are the same, but there are many parallels)

    Sanders was sort of a go to candidate for people who think that the United States should distance itself from Israel for whatever reason, some of them more extreme and implausible than others.

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    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
  • Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    ...now that I think about it, I'm sure I could find Sanders supporters spouting crazy anti-Semitic conspiracy theories if I looked hard enough

    but I really don't want to do that.

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    I would very much like the US to distance ourselves from the Israeli government in the sense that Israel is so incredibly dependent upon the United States that it really seems like we should be able to leverage that into way more pressure on Israel to stop taking illegal actions against Palestinians and also stop shitting on religious and ethnic minority citizens in Israel proper. I'm fine with keeping the ties but it'd be nice if for once we could use realpolitik for positive change.

    Like, if the US actually gave a damn about Palestine.

    Gundi on
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  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    ...now that I think about it, I'm sure I could find Sanders supporters spouting crazy anti-Semitic conspiracy theories if I looked hard enough

    but I really don't want to do that.

    That is likely true for all ____ supporters and ____ conspiracy theories

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  • NeveronNeveron SwedenRegistered User regular
    ...now that I think about it, I'm sure I could find Sanders supporters spouting crazy anti-Semitic conspiracy theories if I looked hard enough

    but I really don't want to do that.

    last I heard the antisemitic Trump supporters seemed to think that Trump's daughter wasn't actually Jewish, and that that whole thing is just a plot to dupe the Jews into supporting him or some nonsense like that?

    people will straight-up make shit up if that helps things correspond to their worldview

    also given that Sanders seems to be a relatively secular Jew I could certainly imagine there being a lot of more-or-less-real ammo for liberal antizionists

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  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    ...now that I think about it, I'm sure I could find Sanders supporters spouting crazy anti-Semitic conspiracy theories if I looked hard enough

    but I really don't want to do that.

    That is likely true for all ____ supporters and ____ conspiracy theories

    At the granular level of one voter who doesn't engage in rational actions (as in game theory, not as in sanity), sure. Generally, I don't think so.

    An individual is opposed above all to the existence of Israel because they feel that Israel is responsible for X, Y, Z, yet they will vote for someone who strongly supports Israel and/or X, Y, Z.

    This doesn't compute in the presence of a candidate who is opposed to policies that oppose Israel and/or X, Y, or Z. Sanders attracted a lot of those voters when he criticized Israel and he fit this mold much better than Trump.

    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Zoel wrote: »
    BlueBlue wrote: »
    ...now that I think about it, I'm sure I could find Sanders supporters spouting crazy anti-Semitic conspiracy theories if I looked hard enough

    but I really don't want to do that.

    That is likely true for all ____ supporters and ____ conspiracy theories

    At the granular level of one voter who doesn't engage in rational actions (as in game theory, not as in sanity), sure. Generally, I don't think so.

    An individual is opposed above all to the existence of Israel because they feel that Israel is responsible for X, Y, Z, yet they will vote for someone who strongly supports Israel and/or X, Y, Z.

    This doesn't compute in the presence of a candidate who is opposed to policies that oppose Israel and/or X, Y, or Z. Sanders attracted a lot of those voters when he criticized Israel and he fit this mold much better than Trump.

    Naturally, prejudiced people will control policy if they're all we think about when figuring out whose side to be on.

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  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Unless you're just against policies that you find to be prejudiced in which case it's kind of automatic and you don't have to think about that

    e: I don't vote based solely on the opinions of people who type (((Zoel))) despite the fact that I'm not jewish. It doesn't control my policy views.

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    Zoel wrote: »
    Unless you're just against policies that you find to be prejudiced in which case it's kind of automatic and you don't have to think about that

    e: I don't vote based solely on the opinions of people who type (((Zoel))) despite the fact that I'm not jewish. It doesn't control my policy views.

    For many people, it is the primary reason, since that's easier to do than understanding the positions

    Marty: The future, it's where you're going?
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  • CptKemzikCptKemzik Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    This whole situation with Labour is driving me absolutely berserk with rage

    These fucking traitors to the cause of actually supporting the most vulnerable members of our society are more interested in ideological purity than they are in actually getting elected. Either they're incredibly stupid or they're wilfully embracing unelectability in order to preserve their ideals in full

    The ordinary people of the UK do not need that. They need a credible and cohesive opposition with a credible and cohesive anti-austerity plan to protect the economy, protect workers rights and protect public services. They don't need Tony Blair to go to the Hague, they don't need Momentum, they don't need this anti-BBC, anti-media drive from Corbyn's supporters.

    It'd be a joke if it wasn't so horrible. What a nightmare.

    Sounds like the Sanders' campaign to be quite honest.

    I think Sanders' being the embodiment of ideological purity is overstated by his (Democratic/left-leaning) critics - even if it was only a small city in Vermont he got his political career going as a mayor. Moreover he, after all, has conceded that Clinton won, gave her his endorsement, and is largely supportive of the party platform going into the convention. He is certainly capable of compromise, and Capital-L left folks in the US have certainly criticized him for being "a democrat" and participating "in a party of capitalism" (his talk of democratic socialism is misguided branding - he's a social democrat at best like those in mainstream parties in Canada or Germany).

    Sure, he's a cantankerous coot who has had the luxury of railing against the system throughout his career in the House and Senate, but given where the party is going towards for the presidential election they're arguably in as unified a position as is possible for a big-tent party of competing ideologies. He gets (somewhat lazily IMO) compared to Corbyn because they're both old white ideologues (Sanders is hardly one to model his positions on academic theory however unlike some of the hardcore Labourites in the UK), but the position Corbyn has found himself in is due to a significantly different set of circumstances than the one Sanders is in as the loser (or "runner up" if you want to be charitable) of the Dem 2016 primary.
    Gundi wrote: »
    I would very much like the US to distance ourselves from the Israeli government in the sense that Israel is so incredibly dependent upon the United States that it really seems like we should be able to leverage that into way more pressure on Israel to stop taking illegal actions against Palestinians and also stop shitting on religious and ethnic minority citizens in Israel proper. I'm fine with keeping the ties but it'd be nice if for once we could use realpolitik for positive change.

    Like, if the US actually gave a damn about Palestine.

    This is also Sanders' view on Israel-Palestine more or less. He got attention this cycle for essentially saying "hey folks the Palestinians are people too, who'da thunk!" He is hardly one for wanting the US to distance itself significantly from Israel, or really entertain anything resembling anti-zionism (this is a guy who visited a kibbutz in Israel for a period of time in his youth). Again a difference from Corbyn and the cadre of folks that have been associated with the latter.
    Neveron wrote: »

    also given that Sanders seems to be a relatively secular Jew I could certainly imagine there being a lot of more-or-less-real ammo for liberal antizionists

    There are plenty of secular Jews within Israeli politics. In fact it is typically ultra-orthodox Jews who are anti-Zionists!

    CptKemzik on
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  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Curious, do you UK folks think this amounts to anything? Or is it just reading tea leaves?

    New PM saying no invoking article 50 until Scotland gives the go-ahead. Scotland, which voted strongly to stay in the EU.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/theresa-may-flies-to-edinburgh-to-tell-scots-that-she-believes-w/

    Label on
  • ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    Label wrote: »
    Curious, do you UK folks think this amounts to anything? Or is it just reading tea leaves?

    New PM saying no invoking article 50 until Scotland gives the go-ahead. Scotland, which voted strongly to stay in the EU.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/theresa-may-flies-to-edinburgh-to-tell-scots-that-she-believes-w/

    I know that technically puts the ball in their court, but I'm not sure it counts if you've nudged it under the net with your foot when no one was looking.

    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    A new born baby's skin is still porous, you can just leave them sitting in a bucket of blood and they'll soak up what they need.
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  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    The only way I can think that story would apply is if there is some secret deal between May and Sturgeon to use Scotland as a get out clause into triggering Article 50. Sturgeon was the first official appointment May had on becoming PM and May went to Edinburgh instead of inviting Sturgeon down to Downing Street which highlights May has priorities in mind.

    In addition to this, in her first speech, as well as talking about triggering Article 50, mentioned maintaining the Union (i.e. The United Kingdom) as a priority which asks questions as to what cost she wants to maintain this Union. It could be that by setting up departments that'll handle Brexit and appointing Leavers in those prominent roles, she looks like she's doing everything she can to get the A50 process rolling, only to realise further down the line that Brexit will mean the end of the UK and that just isn't worth coming out of the EU so the whole thing gets called off.

    Likely? Stranger things have happened. If May is to stop A50 from happening, the threat of a breakup of the UK is the likeliest thing to stop it without Leave campaigners and Eurosceptics thinking that May bottled it and went against the will of the people.

    AnzekayHermanotynicCelloRhesus PositiveLabelSolarTommy2Hands
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

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  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Total Goober Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?

    scroll up; the Corbyn/Sanders stuff

    which is why I find it kind of incredible. even in the Brexit thread folks gotta get their bagging of him in

    chrishallett83Lord_AsmodeusBertezBertez
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?
    not really, I think he's responding to the conversation a few posts up

    BahamutZERO on
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  • NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?

    scroll up; the Corbyn/Sanders stuff

    which is why I find it kind of incredible. even in the Brexit thread folks gotta get their bagging of him in
    There does/did exist an element of purity over effectiveness in Sanders and his campaign.
    Lot of the primary fighting was not about policy, but about how horrible Hillary was for compromising on things to move forward, and how incremental progress is no real progress.

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  • 101101 Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Cornyn is what people feared Sanders would be.

    Someone far too used to being a protester to effectively lead a party of government; more concerned with idilogical purity and maintaining his new found position then the good of his party or gaining the power needed to effect change

    E: as it turns out Sanders is far more sensible and is now working with the party to ensure their victory. Cornyn not so much

    101 on
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  • JoeUserJoeUser Registered User regular
  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    that sounds like an amazing concept for a sitcom

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  • ButlerButler 89 episodes or bust Registered User regular
    that sounds like an amazing concept for a sitcom

    "No Secs Please, We're British"

    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    A new born baby's skin is still porous, you can just leave them sitting in a bucket of blood and they'll soak up what they need.
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  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    I hope someone points out that the only victory UKIP has had in this was tanking the GBP.
    The longer the UK government haggles over the details, the worse it gets.

    tynic
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?
    not really, I think he's responding to the conversation a few posts up

    I guess the source of confusion is that no one was sneering or saying anything unreasonable about Sanders.

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    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?
    not really, I think he's responding to the conversation a few posts up

    I guess the source of confusion is that no one was sneering or saying anything unreasonable about Sanders.

    No, you see, if you criticize Sanders' campaign in any way you're contributing to the establishment's attempts to suppress his revolution, and rubbing their faces in the fact that he lost.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

  • JoeUserJoeUser Registered User regular
    Trident vote day! I didn't realize that Labour's official policy was to support Trident. The unions certainly do.

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  • OghulkOghulk biggest externality low-energy economistRegistered User regular
    Subtle smug sneering about sanders is my new tumblr

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  • JoeUserJoeUser Registered User regular
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Apparently the Brexit minister is having difficulties with the notion that the Republic of Ireland is an independent state?
    I don't think that works. One of our really challenging issues to deal with will be the internal border we have with southern Ireland, and we are not going to go about creating other internal borders inside the United Kingdom.

    Zibblsnrt on
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  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I'm pretty sure The Daily Mash is the most influential media outlet on my politics at this point.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

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  • GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    yeah, to be honest Sanders kinda seems like American Corbyn

    Eeeeeeh

    Sanders and Corbyn are split (from what I've seen) by the way class is treated in British/American culture. This is a very rough conclusion, but I'd say that Corbyn had an impact more akin to Trump, an outsider who managed to clean house by being very distinct from other members of his party, a bit more focused around a cult of personality and taking the party in a direction that looks pretty dicey to the electorate, but is absolutely demanded by a core set of voters who feel like they haven't had a voice in politics in a long time.

    America doesn't have the same kinda working class identity that can be whipped up into a big ol' class conflict the same way Britain has. Between that and the fact that the democrats are currently in power instead of being marginalised in opposition meant that Bernie couldn't pull off the same kinda sweep that Corbyn and Trump have done in their respective parties.

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  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Tube wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?
    not really, I think he's responding to the conversation a few posts up

    I guess the source of confusion is that no one was sneering or saying anything unreasonable about Sanders.

    No, you see, if you criticize Sanders' campaign in any way you're contributing to the establishment's attempts to suppress his revolution, and rubbing their faces in the fact that he lost.

    I don't actually give a shit about Sanders' campaign, especially now that he's endorsed Hillary.

    but folks saying shit like "he's a cantankerous old coot" and generally jumping on any opportunity to take shots at him makes me roll my eyes a whole lot around here
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Subtle smug sneering about sanders is my new tumblr

    oh I thought that was already just the US elections thread

    Anzekay on
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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?
    not really, I think he's responding to the conversation a few posts up

    I guess the source of confusion is that no one was sneering or saying anything unreasonable about Sanders.

    No, you see, if you criticize Sanders' campaign in any way you're contributing to the establishment's attempts to suppress his revolution, and rubbing their faces in the fact that he lost.

    I don't actually give a shit about Sanders' campaign, especially now that he's endorsed Hillary.

    but folks saying shit like "he's a cantankerous old coot" and generally jumping on any opportunity to take shots at him makes me roll my eyes a whole lot around here

    People were justifiably sick with the rhetoric surrounding the last vestiges of his campaign and the way Sanders supporters would respond to any criticism and I don't blame anyone for having sour grapes when those same people get all defensive about it.

    Also this is a campaign where every other candidate gets potshotted at. That's not going to stop happening, so getting all uppity every time someone doesn't praise your chosen candidate, regardless of who they are, is just silly, imo. And I was pretty fond of Sanders in the early parts of his campaign. Even went to hear him speak after his loss was pretty much inevitable because I was still interested in what he had to say. But seeing people who were more than happy to fly the "Hillary is corrupt" banner complain when people reference how toxic and immature the Sanders campaign got towards the end is pretty rich.

    Note: I'm not saying you or anyone else in particular here are doing any of that, just explaining my feelings that lead to my original response, which was definitely an in-general observation. I don't want to start any beef with anyone here.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?
    not really, I think he's responding to the conversation a few posts up

    I guess the source of confusion is that no one was sneering or saying anything unreasonable about Sanders.

    No, you see, if you criticize Sanders' campaign in any way you're contributing to the establishment's attempts to suppress his revolution, and rubbing their faces in the fact that he lost.

    I don't actually give a shit about Sanders' campaign, especially now that he's endorsed Hillary.

    but folks saying shit like "he's a cantankerous old coot" and generally jumping on any opportunity to take shots at him makes me roll my eyes a whole lot around here

    People were justifiably sick with the rhetoric surrounding the last vestiges of his campaign and the way Sanders supporters would respond to any criticism and I don't blame anyone for having sour grapes when those same people get all defensive about it.

    Also this is a campaign where every other candidate gets potshotted at. That's not going to stop happening, so getting all uppity every time someone doesn't praise your chosen candidate, regardless of who they are, is just silly, imo. And I was pretty fond of Sanders in the early parts of his campaign. Even went to hear him speak after his loss was pretty much inevitable because I was still interested in what he had to say. But seeing people who were more than happy to fly the "Hillary is corrupt" banner complain when people reference how toxic and immature the Sanders campaign got towards the end is pretty rich.

    Note: I'm not saying you or anyone else in particular here are doing any of that, just explaining my feelings that lead to my original response, which was definitely an in-general observation. I don't want to start any beef with anyone here.

    nah it's cool, no beef

    I'd get as uppity if folks were taking potshots at Hillary all the time and I saw it too. I do that on social media all the time. Just feels weird that folks care to take the opportunity to do so in the brexit thread, as if we don't get enough of the pot-shotting in the US election thread. I'm not gonna tell people what they can and can't post, but I will roll my eyes at it via text

    BertezBertezTommy2Hands
  • Butler For Life #1Butler For Life #1 Twinning is WinningRegistered User regular
    Gumpy wrote: »
    yeah, to be honest Sanders kinda seems like American Corbyn

    Eeeeeeh

    Sanders and Corbyn are split (from what I've seen) by the way class is treated in British/American culture. This is a very rough conclusion, but I'd say that Corbyn had an impact more akin to Trump, an outsider who managed to clean house by being very distinct from other members of his party, a bit more focused around a cult of personality and taking the party in a direction that looks pretty dicey to the electorate, but is absolutely demanded by a core set of voters who feel like they haven't had a voice in politics in a long time.

    America doesn't have the same kinda working class identity that can be whipped up into a big ol' class conflict the same way Britain has. Between that and the fact that the democrats are currently in power instead of being marginalised in opposition meant that Bernie couldn't pull off the same kinda sweep that Corbyn and Trump have done in their respective parties.

    Ah, interesting

    I've been reading a little about British class politics and it's fascinating to see how it differs from American class politics

    Thank you for the post, I feel I'm understanding things better now.

  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel floof Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Anzekay wrote: »
    the level of subtle smug sneering about Sanders here is kind of incredible

    Wrong thread?
    not really, I think he's responding to the conversation a few posts up

    I guess the source of confusion is that no one was sneering or saying anything unreasonable about Sanders.

    No, you see, if you criticize Sanders' campaign in any way you're contributing to the establishment's attempts to suppress his revolution, and rubbing their faces in the fact that he lost.

    I don't actually give a shit about Sanders' campaign, especially now that he's endorsed Hillary.

    but folks saying shit like "he's a cantankerous old coot" and generally jumping on any opportunity to take shots at him makes me roll my eyes a whole lot around here

    People were justifiably sick with the rhetoric surrounding the last vestiges of his campaign and the way Sanders supporters would respond to any criticism and I don't blame anyone for having sour grapes when those same people get all defensive about it.

    Also this is a campaign where every other candidate gets potshotted at. That's not going to stop happening, so getting all uppity every time someone doesn't praise your chosen candidate, regardless of who they are, is just silly, imo. And I was pretty fond of Sanders in the early parts of his campaign. Even went to hear him speak after his loss was pretty much inevitable because I was still interested in what he had to say. But seeing people who were more than happy to fly the "Hillary is corrupt" banner complain when people reference how toxic and immature the Sanders campaign got towards the end is pretty rich.

    Note: I'm not saying you or anyone else in particular here are doing any of that, just explaining my feelings that lead to my original response, which was definitely an in-general observation. I don't want to start any beef with anyone here.

    nah it's cool, no beef

    I'd get as uppity if folks were taking potshots at Hillary all the time and I saw it too. I do that on social media all the time. Just feels weird that folks care to take the opportunity to do so in the brexit thread, as if we don't get enough of the pot-shotting in the US election thread. I'm not gonna tell people what they can and can't post, but I will roll my eyes at it via text

    Yeah, the pot-shotting is annoying too, I can agree with that.

    cdci44qazyo3.gif

    BertezBertez
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    JoeUser wrote: »

    To be fair, he was probably joking.

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  • htmhtm Registered User regular
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    The only way I can think that story would apply is if there is some secret deal between May and Sturgeon to use Scotland as a get out clause into triggering Article 50. Sturgeon was the first official appointment May had on becoming PM and May went to Edinburgh instead of inviting Sturgeon down to Downing Street which highlights May has priorities in mind.

    In addition to this, in her first speech, as well as talking about triggering Article 50, mentioned maintaining the Union (i.e. The United Kingdom) as a priority which asks questions as to what cost she wants to maintain this Union. It could be that by setting up departments that'll handle Brexit and appointing Leavers in those prominent roles, she looks like she's doing everything she can to get the A50 process rolling, only to realise further down the line that Brexit will mean the end of the UK and that just isn't worth coming out of the EU so the whole thing gets called off.

    Likely? Stranger things have happened. If May is to stop A50 from happening, the threat of a breakup of the UK is the likeliest thing to stop it without Leave campaigners and Eurosceptics thinking that May bottled it and went against the will of the people.

    I think this is even more evidence it's not going to happen. Scottish independence is the perfect wedge issue to turn the Leavers on themselves. The Leavers (including UKIP) are rabidly against Scottish independence. So May is going to talk to Sturgeon even though she knows Sturgeon's answer already ("we're out of here if Brexit happens"). Then she'll offer the Leavers a hard choice, "we can leave the EU, but it will blow up the UK".

    Will that sway a majority of Leavers? Probably not. But all she needs to do is flip 6% of them. As soon as reputable opinion polls start showing a shift in public opinion towards Remain, then the Brexit referendum result will lose a lot of its urgency and legitimacy. Why rush to implement a policy that the voters have changed their minds on?

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