For the first time, I got into an argument with random strangers having a Daily Mail style rant on the bus. Which, given I have an anxiety disorder, really drives home how pissed off I am today.
It pretty much went like this.
Man: "(long, hateful rant)...and their religion tells them to beat women!"
Woman: "No!"
Man: "It does! It tells them to beat women!"
Me: "So does yours."
Both: "What?!"
Me: "Christian, right?"
Both: "...yes..."
Me: "Right. The Bible says to beat your wives."
Man: "No it doesn't!"
Me: "Sure it does. Have a read of Leviticus."
Woman: "Oh, but that's Old Testement! The Old Testement doesn't apply to us! Jesus brought in new rules for us!"
Me: "The Old Testement doesn't apply?"
Woman: "That's right!"
Me: "Like the Ten Commandments you mean?"
*both shut up*
I guess I can look forward to dirty looks and muttering on the bus for a while. Yay.
+58
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
This rising tide of randos losing their shit and latching on to radical Islam to motivate them to action is fucking dire.
It's also arguably the strategy being employed now. Why bother with infrastructure, cells and similar? Instead just use social media and other things to give already unstable individuals that tiny push they need to go over the edge at last. All you need to do is get to them through media, facebook or whatever other channel you need.
Attacks like this are incredibly difficult for authorities to stop. Listening to all of the people criticizing the security and similar was heart breaking for me. The police there did *everything* they reasonably could with what they had. They had guns, barricades and an officer on a motorcycle even tried to catch onto the door, shoot him and get in (but sadly failed). These are not people who didn't try to protect peoples lives, they did everything they could and they failed. They'll have to live with that as well and replaying this horrific day over and over again. Forever wondering "Could I have done something more". Some of the utterly ruthless criticism being directed at them must be just, I don't even imagine how they are feeling actually. I can't understand it.
Honestly, I don't know what the solution to attacks like this is, where people can arm themselves with things that aren't inherently weapons in creative ways. I wouldn't be surprised if heavy enough vehicles like this truck start requiring special features or more close monitoring of licenses to operate across Europe though.
Honestly, I don't know what the solution to attacks like this is, where people can arm themselves with things that aren't inherently weapons in creative ways. I wouldn't be surprised if heavy enough vehicles like this truck start requiring special features or more close monitoring of licenses to operate across Europe though.
This rising tide of randos losing their shit and latching on to radical Islam to motivate them to action is fucking dire.
I kinda wonder, if in the end, this type of random mass attack basically comes from the same type of disaffection, no matter the ideology they choose to justify it.
Honestly, I don't know what the solution to attacks like this is, where people can arm themselves with things that aren't inherently weapons in creative ways. I wouldn't be surprised if heavy enough vehicles like this truck start requiring special features or more close monitoring of licenses to operate across Europe though.
Truck barriers! Big, heavy-ass concrete and steel slabs that can be easily anchored into the ground without causing tons of damage to the area and installed and removed in a matter of hours. We've had these for so long it's making me fucking angry that these seem to never be put in place now. It isn't even an anti-terrorism method it's a freaking traffic control method! You use them for the exact same reason they should have been installed at SXSW in 2014, because people are stupid with their cars and a wooden sawhorse isn't going to do a damn thing. You don't even need to think there's going to be an attack! You have an outdoor event, you're setting up a cordon to keep out vehicles anyways, so you install barriers that actually freaking work against trucks as well.
Overall. Everything points to this guy being a Lone crazy.
1. No signs of the technical skills associated with affiliated terrorists.
2. No religious associations or connections with known terrorists.
3. Troubled personal life, difficulties relating to others and a history of petty crimes.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Honestly, I don't know what the solution to attacks like this is, where people can arm themselves with things that aren't inherently weapons in creative ways. I wouldn't be surprised if heavy enough vehicles like this truck start requiring special features or more close monitoring of licenses to operate across Europe though.
Truck barriers! Big, heavy-ass concrete and steel slabs that can be easily anchored into the ground without causing tons of damage to the area and installed and removed in a matter of hours. We've had these for so long it's making me fucking angry that these seem to never be put in place now. It isn't even an anti-terrorism method it's a freaking traffic control method! You use them for the exact same reason they should have been installed at SXSW in 2014, because people are stupid with their cars and a wooden sawhorse isn't going to do a damn thing. You don't even need to think there's going to be an attack! You have an outdoor event, you're setting up a cordon to keep out vehicles anyways, so you install barriers that actually freaking work against trucks as well.
Rising bollards are becoming a lot more common in the United States. I expect them to be everywhere very soon.
Overall. Everything points to this guy being a Lone crazy.
1. No signs of the technical skills associated with affiliated terrorists.
2. No religious associations or connections with known terrorists.
3. Troubled personal life, difficulties relating to others and a history of petty crimes.
Seems to be recurring themes. With social media looking for and pushing such people seems to be a skill these groups are rapidly learning.
Overall. Everything points to this guy being a Lone crazy.
1. No signs of the technical skills associated with affiliated terrorists.
2. No religious associations or connections with known terrorists.
3. Troubled personal life, difficulties relating to others and a history of petty crimes.
Seems to be recurring themes. With social media looking for and pushing such people seems to be a skill these groups are rapidly learning.
It's a documented strategy, actually. Locate vulnerable people in developed nations, radicalize them, then have them commit lone wolf attacks.
Overall. Everything points to this guy being a Lone crazy.
1. No signs of the technical skills associated with affiliated terrorists.
2. No religious associations or connections with known terrorists.
3. Troubled personal life, difficulties relating to others and a history of petty crimes.
Seems to be recurring themes. With social media looking for and pushing such people seems to be a skill these groups are rapidly learning.
It's a documented strategy, actually. Locate vulnerable people in developed nations, radicalize them, then have them commit lone wolf attacks.
It's basically the weaponized version of Facebook suicide inducement.
Overall. Everything points to this guy being a Lone crazy.
1. No signs of the technical skills associated with affiliated terrorists.
2. No religious associations or connections with known terrorists.
3. Troubled personal life, difficulties relating to others and a history of petty crimes.
Seems to be recurring themes. With social media looking for and pushing such people seems to be a skill these groups are rapidly learning.
Just saying. So far there is no proof that it's IS/Al Qaida/Ansar al-Sharia are in any way connected.
No sign of radicalization. No signs of affiliation. No declarations of support (at least not from the murderers side).
Tunisian Rampage killer doesn't automaticly mean Terrorist.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
+3
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
For the first time, I got into an argument with random strangers having a Daily Mail style rant on the bus. Which, given I have an anxiety disorder, really drives home how pissed off I am today.
It pretty much went like this.
Man: "(long, hateful rant)...and their religion tells them to beat women!"
Woman: "No!"
Man: "It does! It tells them to beat women!"
Me: "So does yours."
Both: "What?!"
Me: "Christian, right?"
Both: "...yes..."
Me: "Right. The Bible says to beat your wives."
Man: "No it doesn't!"
Me: "Sure it does. Have a read of Leviticus."
Woman: "Oh, but that's Old Testement! The Old Testement doesn't apply to us! Jesus brought in new rules for us!"
Me: "The Old Testement doesn't apply?"
Woman: "That's right!"
Me: "Like the Ten Commandments you mean?"
*both shut up*
I guess I can look forward to dirty looks and muttering on the bus for a while. Yay.
The 10 commandments don't apply anymore. Two new commandments from Christ (that overrode the old ones) were Love God and Love your fellow man as yourself. The 10 commandments are still good rules in general so it's probably why they are still brought up, though.
I mean, it's true that the OT doesn't apply to Christianity. Thats the whole point of the New Testament.
Just figured I'd point that out before you try that again on someone more knowledgeable.
Honestly, I don't know what the solution to attacks like this is, where people can arm themselves with things that aren't inherently weapons in creative ways. I wouldn't be surprised if heavy enough vehicles like this truck start requiring special features or more close monitoring of licenses to operate across Europe though.
Autonomous driving.
In the 'future of driverless vehicles' thread, the notion that the passengers will still be able to take control for a variety of reasons remains something many people have expressed an interest in, and makes sense in a safety measure manner (at least in some circumstances, yes the computer may actually be better at a lot of things, but telling people they won't have any control whatsoever seems iffy).
Now, having a system that would let the user take control but still act on breaking if obstacles (especially people) were in the way would be great, but the idea that fighting for control of ones vehicle might be a hard sell, and more importantly, I imagine a lot of effort would go into bypassing that kind of feature, because people are like that.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
My girlfriends mom, yesterday, had some throwaway comment to the effect of "I thought ramadan was over, aren't they done with this yet?". This was before any details about the perp had come out. It's like seven kinds of ignorance in one sentence.
Honestly, I don't know what the solution to attacks like this is, where people can arm themselves with things that aren't inherently weapons in creative ways. I wouldn't be surprised if heavy enough vehicles like this truck start requiring special features or more close monitoring of licenses to operate across Europe though.
Autonomous driving.
In the 'future of driverless vehicles' thread, the notion that the passengers will still be able to take control for a variety of reasons remains something many people have expressed an interest in, and makes sense in a safety measure manner (at least in some circumstances, yes the computer may actually be better at a lot of things, but telling people they won't have any control whatsoever seems iffy).
Now, having a system that would let the user take control but still act on breaking if obstacles (especially people) were in the way would be great, but the idea that fighting for control of ones vehicle might be a hard sell, and more importantly, I imagine a lot of effort would go into bypassing that kind of feature, because people are like that.
Every bit that would make something like this more difficult would be good. Even if there were ways around it. The attacker simply rented a truck and went off with nothing hindering him.
For the first time, I got into an argument with random strangers having a Daily Mail style rant on the bus. Which, given I have an anxiety disorder, really drives home how pissed off I am today.
It pretty much went like this.
Man: "(long, hateful rant)...and their religion tells them to beat women!"
Woman: "No!"
Man: "It does! It tells them to beat women!"
Me: "So does yours."
Both: "What?!"
Me: "Christian, right?"
Both: "...yes..."
Me: "Right. The Bible says to beat your wives."
Man: "No it doesn't!"
Me: "Sure it does. Have a read of Leviticus."
Woman: "Oh, but that's Old Testement! The Old Testement doesn't apply to us! Jesus brought in new rules for us!"
Me: "The Old Testement doesn't apply?"
Woman: "That's right!"
Me: "Like the Ten Commandments you mean?"
*both shut up*
I guess I can look forward to dirty looks and muttering on the bus for a while. Yay.
The 10 commandments don't apply anymore. Two new commandments from Christ (that overrode the old ones) were Love God and Love your fellow man as yourself. The 10 commandments are still good rules in general so it's probably why they are still brought up, though.
I mean, it's true that the OT doesn't apply to Christianity. Thats the whole point of the New Testament.
Just figured I'd point that out before you try that again on someone more knowledgeable.
Someone more knowledgeable would be actually doing what their messiah told them to instead of flinging around buckets of hateful ignorant shit, so Desktop Hippie wouldn't NEED to use that argument on them.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
For the first time, I got into an argument with random strangers having a Daily Mail style rant on the bus. Which, given I have an anxiety disorder, really drives home how pissed off I am today.
It pretty much went like this.
Man: "(long, hateful rant)...and their religion tells them to beat women!"
Woman: "No!"
Man: "It does! It tells them to beat women!"
Me: "So does yours."
Both: "What?!"
Me: "Christian, right?"
Both: "...yes..."
Me: "Right. The Bible says to beat your wives."
Man: "No it doesn't!"
Me: "Sure it does. Have a read of Leviticus."
Woman: "Oh, but that's Old Testement! The Old Testement doesn't apply to us! Jesus brought in new rules for us!"
Me: "The Old Testement doesn't apply?"
Woman: "That's right!"
Me: "Like the Ten Commandments you mean?"
*both shut up*
I guess I can look forward to dirty looks and muttering on the bus for a while. Yay.
The 10 commandments don't apply anymore. Two new commandments from Christ (that overrode the old ones) were Love God and Love your fellow man as yourself. The 10 commandments are still good rules in general so it's probably why they are still brought up, though.
I mean, it's true that the OT doesn't apply to Christianity. Thats the whole point of the New Testament.
Just figured I'd point that out before you try that again on someone more knowledgeable.
So he'd just need to tell them the two new commandments and be done?
It depends what kind of Islam are we talking about, just like with Christianity
Some Evangelicals are backing factions in Africa that murder gays because they think Leviticus is just as important as the NT, some muslims are Salafi and think everyone should live in the exact way people did in like 615 AD Saudi Arabia
override367 on
+15
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
It depends what kind of Islam are we talking about, just like with Christianity
Some Evangelicals are backing factions in Africa that murder gays because they think Leviticus is just as important as the NT, some muslims are Salafi and think everyone should live in the exact way people did in like 615 AD Saudi Arabia
Yup, and both of those factions are completely wrong and deserving of criticism.
Early reports on the perpetrator paints an uncommon picture. 31 years old, divorced, 3 kids, never wore obvious signs of religion, not known to visit any mosques, not on any watchlists for radicalisation, said to frequent a nearby bar to both drink and gamble. Described as a loner, never greeted people back.
Only major run in with the police was apparently major road rage in March of this year where he flung a wooden pallet at someone.
I didn't want it to be IS related, though I don't really understand why.
because yet another attack by those cockbags would give further fuel to the angry extreme right and give them more support and more reason to rattle sabers over "Le Muslims".
So the names and stories of the victims are starting to emerge, and it's a heck of a mix of nationalities.
There's a lot of French victims of course, including a man who pushed his pregnant wife out of the way of the truck and saved her life, and their child's. As mentioned earlier, two kids on a school trip from Germany were killed, along with their teacher. A man from Texas and his 11 year old son also died. A Russian woman in her 20s has been identified among the dead, a Swiss woman and child, two Tunisian men and a Tunisian woman. Her four year old son is still missing. Two children from Algeria were killed, along with a 70 year old woman who was visiting her daughter. A Ukranian and an Armenian have also been confirmed dead as a result of the attack.
According to the local news, an Irishman survived but is still in critical condition. Which considering he's just one survivor I guess means the death toll could still go up.
on this point, a woman who was interviewed by the BBC today said that the driver swerved the lorry towards a carousel, which is why so many children are among the injured and dead. they weren't caught up in it by chance, he actively targeted them. as if what happened couldn't be any more heartbreaking and disgusting.
It's starting to feel more and more that the world is coming apart at the seems, that common decency isn't, that feelings of safety are a dangerous delusion. Violence is not the answer, obviously, but I can see why fear and anger are gaining traction among the peoples of the world.
Early reports on the perpetrator paints an uncommon picture. 31 years old, divorced, 3 kids, never wore obvious signs of religion, not known to visit any mosques, not on any watchlists for radicalisation, said to frequent a nearby bar to both drink and gamble. Described as a loner, never greeted people back.
Only major run in with the police was apparently major road rage in March of this year where he flung a wooden pallet at someone.
I know it's selfish and petty of me, but I can't help but be worried that people are going to look at me as a potential threat because I'm not a publicly sociable person. I specifically make it a point to reply to public greetings, even if I really, really don't want to, so I don't attract attention.
It's starting to feel more and more that the world is coming apart at the seems, that common decency isn't, that feelings of safety are a dangerous delusion. Violence is not the answer, obviously, but I can see why fear and anger are gaining traction among the peoples of the world.
Early reports on the perpetrator paints an uncommon picture. 31 years old, divorced, 3 kids, never wore obvious signs of religion, not known to visit any mosques, not on any watchlists for radicalisation, said to frequent a nearby bar to both drink and gamble. Described as a loner, never greeted people back.
Only major run in with the police was apparently major road rage in March of this year where he flung a wooden pallet at someone.
I know it's selfish and petty of me, but I can't help but be worried that people are going to look at me as a potential threat because I'm not a publicly sociable person. I specifically make it a point to reply to public greetings, even if I really, really don't want to, so I don't attract attention.
I don't sync with my black community because I was characterized in high school as the [arab derogatory term] [african derogatory term] [gay derogatory term] everyone saw in the corner that everyone thought would shoot up the school.
Posts
It pretty much went like this.
Man: "(long, hateful rant)...and their religion tells them to beat women!"
Woman: "No!"
Man: "It does! It tells them to beat women!"
Me: "So does yours."
Both: "What?!"
Me: "Christian, right?"
Both: "...yes..."
Me: "Right. The Bible says to beat your wives."
Man: "No it doesn't!"
Me: "Sure it does. Have a read of Leviticus."
Woman: "Oh, but that's Old Testement! The Old Testement doesn't apply to us! Jesus brought in new rules for us!"
Me: "The Old Testement doesn't apply?"
Woman: "That's right!"
Me: "Like the Ten Commandments you mean?"
*both shut up*
I guess I can look forward to dirty looks and muttering on the bus for a while. Yay.
It's also arguably the strategy being employed now. Why bother with infrastructure, cells and similar? Instead just use social media and other things to give already unstable individuals that tiny push they need to go over the edge at last. All you need to do is get to them through media, facebook or whatever other channel you need.
Attacks like this are incredibly difficult for authorities to stop. Listening to all of the people criticizing the security and similar was heart breaking for me. The police there did *everything* they reasonably could with what they had. They had guns, barricades and an officer on a motorcycle even tried to catch onto the door, shoot him and get in (but sadly failed). These are not people who didn't try to protect peoples lives, they did everything they could and they failed. They'll have to live with that as well and replaying this horrific day over and over again. Forever wondering "Could I have done something more". Some of the utterly ruthless criticism being directed at them must be just, I don't even imagine how they are feeling actually. I can't understand it.
Honestly, I don't know what the solution to attacks like this is, where people can arm themselves with things that aren't inherently weapons in creative ways. I wouldn't be surprised if heavy enough vehicles like this truck start requiring special features or more close monitoring of licenses to operate across Europe though.
Autonomous driving.
I kinda wonder, if in the end, this type of random mass attack basically comes from the same type of disaffection, no matter the ideology they choose to justify it.
My brother used to coach Brodie Copeland's baseball team. He was only 11.
Truck barriers! Big, heavy-ass concrete and steel slabs that can be easily anchored into the ground without causing tons of damage to the area and installed and removed in a matter of hours. We've had these for so long it's making me fucking angry that these seem to never be put in place now. It isn't even an anti-terrorism method it's a freaking traffic control method! You use them for the exact same reason they should have been installed at SXSW in 2014, because people are stupid with their cars and a wooden sawhorse isn't going to do a damn thing. You don't even need to think there's going to be an attack! You have an outdoor event, you're setting up a cordon to keep out vehicles anyways, so you install barriers that actually freaking work against trucks as well.
Yeah, theyre from Lakeway, just west of Austin on Lake Travis.
1. No signs of the technical skills associated with affiliated terrorists.
2. No religious associations or connections with known terrorists.
3. Troubled personal life, difficulties relating to others and a history of petty crimes.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Rising bollards are becoming a lot more common in the United States. I expect them to be everywhere very soon.
Of course they would be useless against a 20 ton truck
Seems to be recurring themes. With social media looking for and pushing such people seems to be a skill these groups are rapidly learning.
It's a documented strategy, actually. Locate vulnerable people in developed nations, radicalize them, then have them commit lone wolf attacks.
It's basically the weaponized version of Facebook suicide inducement.
Just saying. So far there is no proof that it's IS/Al Qaida/Ansar al-Sharia are in any way connected.
No sign of radicalization. No signs of affiliation. No declarations of support (at least not from the murderers side).
Tunisian Rampage killer doesn't automaticly mean Terrorist.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
The 10 commandments don't apply anymore. Two new commandments from Christ (that overrode the old ones) were Love God and Love your fellow man as yourself. The 10 commandments are still good rules in general so it's probably why they are still brought up, though.
I mean, it's true that the OT doesn't apply to Christianity. Thats the whole point of the New Testament.
Just figured I'd point that out before you try that again on someone more knowledgeable.
In the 'future of driverless vehicles' thread, the notion that the passengers will still be able to take control for a variety of reasons remains something many people have expressed an interest in, and makes sense in a safety measure manner (at least in some circumstances, yes the computer may actually be better at a lot of things, but telling people they won't have any control whatsoever seems iffy).
Now, having a system that would let the user take control but still act on breaking if obstacles (especially people) were in the way would be great, but the idea that fighting for control of ones vehicle might be a hard sell, and more importantly, I imagine a lot of effort would go into bypassing that kind of feature, because people are like that.
I was fucking furious.
Every bit that would make something like this more difficult would be good. Even if there were ways around it. The attacker simply rented a truck and went off with nothing hindering him.
Someone more knowledgeable would be actually doing what their messiah told them to instead of flinging around buckets of hateful ignorant shit, so Desktop Hippie wouldn't NEED to use that argument on them.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
So he'd just need to tell them the two new commandments and be done?
I guess it would save some time.
Some Evangelicals are backing factions in Africa that murder gays because they think Leviticus is just as important as the NT, some muslims are Salafi and think everyone should live in the exact way people did in like 615 AD Saudi Arabia
Yup, and both of those factions are completely wrong and deserving of criticism.
Only major run in with the police was apparently major road rage in March of this year where he flung a wooden pallet at someone.
I didn't want it to be IS related, though I don't really understand why.
This guy and the guy that killed the MP in Britain probably have more in common then either would admit.
The Dallas Shooter, the Columbine Killers and Anders Brevik would be equal comparison.
As for causes: 40 years ago it would have been Revolutionary Communist Vanguard like the Directe Action and the Weathermen.
60 years ago it would have been Anti-colonialist pan-arab.
100 years ago: Anarchist "Equalist" bomb-thrower.
These guys have been around and are not going away.
because yet another attack by those cockbags would give further fuel to the angry extreme right and give them more support and more reason to rattle sabers over "Le Muslims".
I mean, ugh.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Because it's not going to inspire even more "retaliatory" hatred?
There's a lot of French victims of course, including a man who pushed his pregnant wife out of the way of the truck and saved her life, and their child's. As mentioned earlier, two kids on a school trip from Germany were killed, along with their teacher. A man from Texas and his 11 year old son also died. A Russian woman in her 20s has been identified among the dead, a Swiss woman and child, two Tunisian men and a Tunisian woman. Her four year old son is still missing. Two children from Algeria were killed, along with a 70 year old woman who was visiting her daughter. A Ukranian and an Armenian have also been confirmed dead as a result of the attack.
According to the local news, an Irishman survived but is still in critical condition. Which considering he's just one survivor I guess means the death toll could still go up.
on this point, a woman who was interviewed by the BBC today said that the driver swerved the lorry towards a carousel, which is why so many children are among the injured and dead. they weren't caught up in it by chance, he actively targeted them.
There's an attempted coup ongoing in Ankara, and we're covering it in the ME thread.
could just be them being especially cautious and jumping at shadows. hopefully its nothing more serious than that.
EDIT: or its an attempted coup.
I know it's selfish and petty of me, but I can't help but be worried that people are going to look at me as a potential threat because I'm not a publicly sociable person. I specifically make it a point to reply to public greetings, even if I really, really don't want to, so I don't attract attention.
I don't sync with my black community because I was characterized in high school as the [arab derogatory term] [african derogatory term] [gay derogatory term] everyone saw in the corner that everyone thought would shoot up the school.
Fuck em', get your paper.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534